Now that this forum is unaffiliated with serotta...

[SteveFrench]

...are we allowed to discuss the company's demise?

[fiamme red]

...are we allowed to discuss the company's demise?From the man himself:

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=1058937&postcount=1

"Flowery obits are sweet but as has already been stated, news of our demise has been greatly exaggerated."

[slowgoing]

...are we allowed to discuss the company's demise?

Only if you have over 2000 posts and have been on the Serotta forum for more than five years.

And you contribute to Ben's gift. ;)

[c-record]

poor form.

[slowgoing]

poor form.

+1.

Isn't there another forum where you can take your yearning desire to discuss this?

[SteveFrench]

Only if you have over 2000 posts and have been on the Serotta forum for more than five years.

And you contribute to Ben's gift. ;)



Darn, guess I don't qualify!

[AgilisMerlin]

herbert spencer

“There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance—that principle is contempt prior to investigation.”

[SteveFrench]

Truth be told, I don't want to discuss the fate of serotta. However, I was wondering if mods would be locking threads discussing it, like they had been doing on the old forum. If you read my original post I think you'll see what I mean. Didn't mean to start a **** show. Just wanted to see if this topic was still being censored.

[dave thompson]

Truth be told, I don't want to discuss the fate of serotta. However, I was wondering if mods would be locking threads discussing it, like they had been doing on the old forum. If you read my original post I think you'll see what I mean. Didn't mean to start a **** show. Just wanted to see if this topic was still being censored.
Should be non-censored, it's a non-issue.

[cfox]

censorship? I remember a 30 page thread discussing serotta's demise/fate/future...while this was still the serotta forum. it was closed when it had run its course, not because of the subject.

[SteveFrench]

censorship? I remember a 30 page thread discussing serotta's demise/fate/future...while this was still the serotta forum. it was closed when it had run its course, not because of the subject.


Then why aren't all threads closed when they run their course? Seems like special treatment to me.

[nighthawk]

Oh, brother :rolleyes:

Why not just contribute something positive to the forum? I don't get why people crave drama so much, it's BORING.


Then why aren't all threads closed when they run their course? Seems like special treatment to me.

[SteveFrench]

Oh, brother :rolleyes:

Why not just contribute something positive to the forum? I don't get why people crave drama so much, it's BORING.



You felt the desire to contribute. ;)

[Earl Gray]

Hasn't been a week and the natives are restless

[dekindy]

Can't maintain a forum, seldom blog, and cutting dealers drastically to change strategy to sell direct using an inadequate website, sales down 70%, product drastically overpriced, real estate will probably be difficult to impossible to sell, what do you think is going to happen?

Thought I would go for it getting the first thread closed on the new forum. :D

I wish it were not happening but this is reality. Why do we need to go over it again? Would rather see a thread with some positives like sales are up, real estate sold to provide capital, website revised, more use of blog and Facebook, pricing structure changed, new sales channels for forks, outsourcing work from other companies, etc., etc.

[BumbleBeeDave]

Hasn't been a week and the natives are restless

Have at it, guys . . .

Just remember no political threads and no personal attacks. We'll let you know if things get a bit too rowdy . . .

BBD

[Keith A]

poor form.+1
One of the great things about this forum is that many (most) of the members do a really good job and keeping this place inline. Thanks!

[Jason E]

Then why aren't all threads closed when they run their course? Seems like special treatment to me.

Steve,

I think this is a valid question.

Different boards treat closing threads differently, and it is really just part of the culture. V-Salon will sometimes close something within a page just because there is not too much to the thread or anywhere good for it to go. Nothing bad was said, but the philosophy is if someone searches it it will show up. Other times, of course, it is if a point is just belabored.

It would seem from history that the guys moderating this board allow for a bit longer leash. And that is not to say the other board is so much censoring as they are keeping us on task. Here, if we are not killing each other, they let it run out a bit longer. Different strokes for different folks.

One of the guys that does not moderate here, but used to moderate across the hall was a lot more erratic. He'd lock threads, then keep commenting, or open and close threads. That is just one guy though, and he had some other things going on. It was never malicious.

I am curious, along the lines of your original post, if we will be maintaining a Serotta bikes album.

One place I think we can grow as a board would be to have the bikes board sorted like across the hall. Not just a Serotta Bikes, but one for Serotta, one for IF, etc...

[Gummee]

So when's winter gonna be over?!

M

[Ahneida Ride]

PLEASE .... Let's NOT go down this road ...

I beg you .... there is no positive purpose.

thanks !

[jlwdm]

...

Thought I would go for it getting the first thread closed on the new forum. :D

....

So why do you want to be on the forum? Sounds like you are ready for another forum.

Jeff

[rnhood]

Can't maintain a forum, seldom blog, and cutting dealers drastically to change strategy to sell direct using an inadequate website, sales down 70%, product drastically overpriced, real estate will probably be difficult to impossible to sell, what do you think is going to happen?

Thought I would go for it getting the first thread closed on the new forum. :D

I wish it were not happening but this is reality. Why do we need to go over it again? Would rather see a thread with some positives like sales are up, real estate sold to provide capital, website revised, more use of blog and Facebook, pricing structure changed, new sales channels for forks, outsourcing work from other companies, etc., etc.

Hate to agree with you but in a nutshell, this would appear to sum it up. I think Serotta will hang around although they will be small, and probably in California eventually. They have a great reputation and will be able to sell some bikes, especially to those that have deep pockets. There again with their reputation, Serotta might represent a good opportunity for some forward thinking capitalist and the brand may start heading North again.

[don compton]

PLEASE .... Let's NOT go down this road ...

I beg you .... there is no positive purpose.

thanks !
AMEN !

[martinrjensen]

that really didn't answer that OP's question....From the man himself:

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=1058937&postcount=1

"Flowery obits are sweet but as has already been stated, news of our demise has been greatly exaggerated."

[Keith A]

PLEASE .... Let's NOT go down this road ...

I beg you .... there is no positive purpose.

thanks !Let's not...especially considering the history of this forum.

[Ahneida Ride]

Thanks for honoring this humble request ..

I am deeply indebted ! :beer:

[SteveFrench]

I appreciate the thoughtful responses. And some of the less thoughtful ones were sort of entertaining in their own way.

[pdmtong]

This is a dead horse that has had the proverbial beating. Now, only time will tell. All that can be said has already been said.

[SteveFrench]

This is a dead horse that has had the proverbial beating. Now, only time will tell. All that can be said has already been said.



Between you and me I'm glad I just sold my serotta. ;)

[pdmtong]

Between you and me I'm glad I just sold my serotta. ;)

I have the opposite feeling. Although no longer cutting edge, my ottrott proves itself over and over as a great riding bike. Maybe later in life it is retired to become my rain bike. But, for now, it keeps it's place in "the rotation". Maybe if i could get more than $1500 for it I'd sell it and turn it into a Peg or Moots or {insert here]. But perhaps that is just the bike gods saying "it's a nice bike. ride the $h*t out of it."

No issues with you selling yours. Plenty of great bikes to ride in this life so to each his own.

[SteveFrench]

I have the opposite feeling. Although no longer cutting edge, my ottrott proves itself over and over as a great riding bike. Maybe later in life it is retired to become my rain bike. But, for now, it keeps it's place in "the rotation". Maybe if i could get more than $1500 for it I'd sell it and turn it into a Peg or Moots or {insert here]. But perhaps that is just the bike gods saying "it's a nice bike. ride the $h*t out of it."

No issues with you selling yours. Plenty of great bikes to ride in this life so to each his own.


Ahh I was just joking. I loved my serotta but it was just a bit too big for me. It was a wonderful bike.

[Kirk Pacenti]

herbert spencer

“There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance—that principle is contempt prior to investigation.”

^^^ One of the best things I have ever read on the internet.

The irony is both sides of a debate can use this to prove the other side ignorant....at least in their own minds and to their own satisfaction.

Cheers,
KP

[forrestw]

Whoever owns the forum, I figure it's in poor taste until it actually happens.

Can't maintain a forum, seldom blog, and cutting dealers drastically to change strategy to sell direct using an inadequate website, sales down 70%, product drastically overpriced, real estate will probably be difficult to impossible to sell, what do you think is going to happen?
This is a set of concerns widely stated here and granted at least one shop that has these attributes -- Seven -- is reported to be doing ok.

None of which influenced my decision to buy a Serotta. I don't think Serotta's production is all that overpriced either given that Ben is offering some build qualities that no other builder offers, YMMV. No amount of blogging or polishing the website is going to change that fact, or my preference for Serotta over other custom builders.

From what I've see, Ben is also not the sort to put energy into the 'BRAND' ahead of the product and I see this as a VERY GOOD THING.

'Brand focus' has also been a hobbyhorse of those telling Serotta how they ought to change the business model. If I were inclined to buy stuff because of the brand then a Seven, RS or a host of other builders might have had more appeal for me.

[William]

http://www.chrisisright.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/monty-python-holy-grail-05.jpg


Do Serotta's float?? :confused:






William (Who posts in jest ;) )

[cfox]

Then why aren't all threads closed when they run their course? Seems like special treatment to me.
are you kidding me? most threads run their course and die off...others might have 28 pages of interesting discussion and are mercifully locked when they devolve into ridiculous name calling/stupid crap. The latter has happened many times on many subjects other than Serotta's viability as a business. I'm sure you understand that some threads have potential to go off the rails more than others...

[DRZRM]

Between you and me I'm glad I just sold my serotta. ;)

Funny you should say that, when I got a new IF SSR I offered up my Legend (97 with an F-1) as I didn't need two road bikes. Put a very low price on it, got some nibbles but it never moved. Call it nostalgia, but it terms of all day comfort and great ride quality that bike has never let me down. For a while I really wanted a newer one with a larger head tube, but I'm not so sure that bike ever really improved on the original. There is really no improvement in upgrading, and now that they are going full custom only I'm glad I still have it. That bike is a keeper, now more than ever.

[SteveFrench]

Funny you should say that, when I got a new IF SSR I offered up my Legend (97 with an F-1) as I didn't need two road bikes. Put a very low price on it, got some nibbles but it never moved. Call it nostalgia, but it terms of all day comfort and great ride quality that bike has never let me down. For a while I really wanted a newer one with a larger head tube, but I'm not so sure that bike ever really improved on the original. There is really no improvement in upgrading, and now that they are going full custom only I'm glad I still have it. That bike is a keeper, now more than ever.



I was joking about that. I thought the wink would suggest that but I guess not. Serottas are great and I'm sure I'll have a few more before I'm dead.

[Ahneida Ride]

I LOVE my Legend Ti !

[Chance]

^^^ One of the best things I have ever read on the internet.

The irony is both sides of a debate can use this to prove the other side ignorant....at least in their own minds and to their own satisfaction.

Cheers,
KP
Very true. And interesting in light of this forum changing from a builder/manufacturer sponsored entity to one that appears sponsored and controlled by cyclists. In my opinion how that fundamental change unfolds is key. Whether for the better or not who knows?

In the past information flow seemed significantly limited by moderators (particularly Pete) when anyone disagreed or even questioned builders. It seems there was an unwritten rule that critiquing builders was completely off limits. To some that came across as mandated brownnosing. This made sense with a builder’s products and area of expertise (to maintain an image of exclusivity that helped Serotta indirectly) but when the subject matter was well beyond what builders do or know best it shouldn’t have been that way at all. When a builder wonders away from what he knows best the rest should be able to question his information or ideas just like everyone else’s. And this doesn’t mean being rude or uncivil; just that information flow should be unbridled.

When others don’t have an equal right and opportunity to debate in a civil manner the entire process loses credibility. We’ll see if this aspect changes.

[echelon_john]

Honestly, after participating in probably 20 different Internet forums on all different subject matter/interest areas, I think the moderation here stands out as extremely tolerant, positive and fair.

I disagree that mods here were heavy handed wrt opinions/experiences with different builders. There were plenty of healthy, conflict-filled but respectful discussions about Serotta, Goodrich when he was having troubles, etc. etc.

I think the mods here walked the line of hosting a forum sponsored by a builder, and therefore not wanting to disparage that builder--or any other--and giving those in the community ample space to air their opinions.




Very true. And interesting in light of this forum changing from a builder/manufacturer sponsored entity to one that appears sponsored and controlled by cyclists. In my opinion how that fundamental change unfolds is key. Whether for the better or not who knows?

In the past information flow seemed significantly limited by moderators (particularly Pete) when anyone disagreed or even questioned builders. It seems there was an unwritten rule that critiquing builders was completely off limits. To some that came across as mandated brownnosing. This made sense with a builder’s products and area of expertise (to maintain an image of exclusivity that helped Serotta indirectly) but when the subject matter was well beyond what builders do or know best it shouldn’t have been that way at all. When a builder wonders away from what he knows best the rest should be able to question his information or ideas just like everyone else’s. And this doesn’t mean being rude or uncivil; just that information flow should be unbridled.

When others don’t have an equal right and opportunity to debate in a civil manner the entire process loses credibility. We’ll see if this aspect changes.

[Smiley]

Mr French and others, I for one will always have two Serotta's in my stable, a CDA that my wife owns and my Uniscasi. These bikes are built by some of the finest folks I know, craftsmen and women. I for one would be deeply saddened if the brand Serotta did not survive. Serotta has weathered alot of storms, if you read the history of the company it always came out OK. I signed on when Archie Cox Jr owned the place and was around for the re-birth when Ben bought it back and rejuvenated himself and the brand with the Ottrott model. I can go on and on and would love to revisit the companies history from the time I got involved as a owner of Legend Ti serial #21 (yeah a pre-order of the first Ti Legends made) ten as the DC area rep. to today.
Some may not even remember the purchase of Fat City Bikes by Mr Cox to try and balance out the MTB brand of Chris Chance with the Serotta Road brand at the time.
I still have fond memories of a meet and greet I set up as a Serotta/Fat City Rep. and having had Ben Serotta and Chris and Wendyll Chance stay with us over the weekend, WOW.
Great folks and I can only wish them the very best. I would not bet against Ben Serotta.

[jlwdm]

It is a good thing I am not a moderator because I would close way more threads. Too many go to long in my opinion.

Unfortunately the recent tiresome winter threads sent me back to the Time Zone watch forum - it has been a long time. Next thing I knew I had purchased two watches in two days. Darn classifieds - they should be banned on all forums!

Jeff

[akelman]

Unfortunately the recent tiresome winter threads sent me back to the Time Zone watch forum - it has been a long time. Next thing I knew I had purchased two watches in two days. Darn classifieds - they should be banned on all forums!

Gah, last fall I dipped my toes back into those treacherous waters for only a moment. But it was long enough to buy a new watch (that, in fairness to myself, I sort of needed). I haven't gone back since then.

[Ozz]

It is a good thing I am not a moderator because I would close way more threads. Too many go to long in my opinion.

Unfortunately the recent tiresome winter threads sent me back to the Time Zone watch forum - it has been a long time. Next thing I knew I had purchased two watches in two days. Darn classifieds - they should be banned on all forums!

Jeff
got a link? :beer:

[Earl Gray]

Very true. And interesting in light of this forum changing from a builder/manufacturer sponsored entity to one that appears sponsored and controlled by cyclists. In my opinion how that fundamental change unfolds is key. Whether for the better or not who knows?

In the past information flow seemed significantly limited by moderators (particularly Pete) when anyone disagreed or even questioned builders. It seems there was an unwritten rule that critiquing builders was completely off limits. To some that came across as mandated brownnosing. This made sense with a builder’s products and area of expertise (to maintain an image of exclusivity that helped Serotta indirectly) but when the subject matter was well beyond what builders do or know best it shouldn’t have been that way at all. When a builder wonders away from what he knows best the rest should be able to question his information or ideas just like everyone else’s. And this doesn’t mean being rude or uncivil; just that information flow should be unbridled.

When others don’t have an equal right and opportunity to debate in a civil manner the entire process loses credibility. We’ll see if this aspect changes.

+1

Man Crush!

[Louis]

Can't maintain a forum

It occurred to me earlier today that there are at least two sides to this coin.

1) As I posted, in BBD's scream thread, I've always thought that it was a shame that Serotta was not able to better leverage the forum into something more positive for the brand. It seemed to me that they had a goose laying golden eggs, but somehow never manage to collect them.

2) On the other hand, maybe the Serotta Forum was successful precisely because they took such a hands-off approach. I mean, think of it - in the Image Gallery there is/was a "Custom Bikes" section where folks could show off the competition. In Serotta's very own house. IMO, that was unfettered discussion to the nth degree. Who knows what would have happened, if they had tried to make this more of a "push Serotta" kind of place? It might have gone stale in a year, and everyone would have gone home.

Regardless, Ben and his brand are where they are today. Bemoaning the past won't help fix things tomorrow, so I guess we'll hope for the best and see how things turn out.

[jlwdm]

got a link? :beer:

Time Zone (www.timezone.com)

Classifieds are hidden discreetly in the top two pull downs under Community.

Jeff