Sastre and Evans only real winners of TdF in 16 years.

[toaster]

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/07/sports/cycling/alberto-contador-found-guilty-of-doping.html


Since Indurain until now only two guys who have won the Tour are not suspected of doping.

Pretty awfully amazing!

[tsarpepe]

Favorite part: "Contador was unable to produce a sample of the tenderloin."

[christian]

Since Indurain until now only two guys who have won the Tour are not suspected of doping.And god knows 100% Big Mig was racing clean.

But my favorite quote was:
Travis T. Tygart, the chief executive of the United States Anti-Doping Agency, declined to rank cycling relative to other sports in terms of the prevalence of doping among its athletes. But he noted that the temptation to dope created by a “winner-takes-all mentality” surrounds every sport — “even inline skating.” Yes, even bladers dope. Sad world.

[echappist]

And god knows 100% Big Mig was racing clean.

But my favorite quote was:
Yes, even bladers dope. Sad world.
and the one before? Greg Lemond

someone mentioned that Fignon and Hinault may also have doped,but i haven't seen too many mention it

[jpw]

And god knows 100% Big Mig was racing clean.

But my favorite quote was:
Yes, even bladers dope. Sad world.

If the 'Contador' had happened to Indurain would we now be calling him 'Big Mac'?

[soulspinner]

If the 'Contador' had happened to Indurain would we now be calling him 'Big Mac'?

:hello:

[Rueda Tropical]

There was always doping but it was never effective enough to put you on the podium of a stage race. Probably did as much harm as good for a lot of riders who may have convinced themselves that certain recreational drugs were aiding performance and not just giving them a jolt. After Fignon and LeMond EPO changed all that. Fignon describes mid-pack riders turning into supermen thanks to the revolution of blood doping.

It became a contest of doctors and labs and managers who had the most sophisticated and best funded programs. Natural ability was replaced by your metabolisms being better suited to EPO use and your you and your handlers being sophisticated enough to avoid detection. Those whose metabolism could gain the most from doping had an advantage over others who sans dope might be far the superior athlete.

It really destroyed the sport. Made for some super human spectacle but it had become more WWF then the sport it had been.

[echappist]

There was always doping but it was never effective enough to put you on the podium of a stage race. Probably did as much harm as good for a lot of riders who may have convinced themselves that certain recreational drugs were aiding performance and not just giving them a jolt. After Fignon and LeMond EPO changed all that. Fignon describes mid-pack riders turning into supermen thanks to the revolution of blood doping.

It became a contest of doctors and labs and managers who had the most sophisticated and best funded programs. Natural ability was replaced by your metabolisms being better suited to EPO use and your you and your handlers being sophisticated enough to avoid detection. Those whose metabolism could gain the most from doping had an advantage over others who sans dope might be far the superior athlete.

It really destroyed the sport. Made for some super human spectacle but it had become more WWF then the sport it had been.

the most ridiculous aspect is exhibited through Milano San Remo. I was surprised to learn that up to the early 90's, this was like a real classic in which if a sprinter won, it was a brave sprinter who attacked a small group. Instead, from the mid 90's to mid 2000's, every single race came down to a bunch sprint.

Yes, Kelly (winner of MSR in 92) did admit to doping (though this was in the 80's), but doping using EPO took performance to a whole 'nother level in the sense that the domestiques were having no problem driving the train up the Cipressa and the Poggio.

[majorpat]

EPO really was a big fork in the road. Now you can use your own blood but only if you have the resources for all the medical tech that it requires. Maybe with sponsors getting scarce and tight with the cash we'll see a more level playing field.

Hope springs eternal.

Pat

[dekindy]

Remember, Average Joe's only qualified for the Las Vegas Dodgeball tournament because a girl scout on the team that beat them tested positive for not one, but several banned substances!

[thinpin]

the most ridiculous aspect is exhibited through Milano San Remo. I was surprised to learn that up to the early 90's, this was like a real classic in which if a sprinter won, it was a brave sprinter who attacked a small group. Instead, from the mid 90's to mid 2000's, every single race came down to a bunch sprint.

Yes, Kelly (winner of MSR in 92) did admit to doping (though this was in the 80's), but doping using EPO took performance to a whole 'nother level in the sense that the domestiques were having no problem driving the train up the Cipressa and the Poggio.
Kelly really clinched the RSM victory on his descent of the poggio, so doping was not the only factor in his winning that race but know doubt may have help him in the sprint

[BumbleBeeDave]

He is a real gentleman and class act. I have little trouble believing he never doped.

BBD

[Jaq]

Actually, back in the '30s or late '40s, there was someone accused of doping in the TdF - amphetemines or something. Too lazy to look it up.

The best story is the 1904 TdF; guys were jumping on trains, getting in fights, taking cars, paying mobs to slow down and/or beat up competitors. At one point, Garin had to chase off a mob with a couple of pistol shots.

Eventually, 12 guys were disqualified, including the top 4 finishers, and the race went to some kid (too lazy to google atm); he was like 18 or 19 years old and to this day is the youngest TdF winner.

[echappist]

Kelly really clinched the RSM victory on his descent of the poggio, so doping was not the only factor in his winning that race but know doubt may have help him in the sprint
yes, indeed. Schleckos could learn a thing or two from Kelly. Out of all the doping legends (Merckx, Coppi, etc), Kelly is my favorite.

I remember recently watching the telecast in which the announcer said that the tifosi on the Via Roma in San Remo let out a collective gasp when they saw on the big screen that Kelly caught Argentin. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mL3jQmkj3uI

If you look at the MSR results, the only previous times when there was a bunch sprint (more than 15 riders) were in 1979 and 1978. That was it. Of the nine editions starting in from 1997-2005, the only victory coming from a breakaway/small group was when Bettini won a 3-up sprint in 2002, and it should be said that he had Paolini driving for him. And it just so happen that 1997 - 2005 were some of the most scandal-filled years of cycling.

In effect, EPO has made the riders so strong that the previous decisive 1-2 punch of Cipressa and Poggio were no more than speed humps that many can overcome.

The recent breakaway wins (2008 and 2011) are good signs that the sport is getting cleaner.

[54ny77]

and in today's news, typing in www.serottaforum.com takes you to a liquor store--the urban grape in chestnut hill, ma.

:banana: :beer:

[c-record]

Gotta give a shout out for Julich in 1997. #1 Riis-cheater, #2 Pantani-cheater, though I always liked him. Julich, USA's second TDF winner!

[tiretrax]

Actually, back in the '30s or late '40s, there was someone accused of doping in the TdF - amphetemines or something. Too lazy to look it up.

The best story is the 1904 TdF; guys were jumping on trains, getting in fights, taking cars, paying mobs to slow down and/or beat up competitors. At one point, Garin had to chase off a mob with a couple of pistol shots.

Eventually, 12 guys were disqualified, including the top 4 finishers, and the race went to some kid (too lazy to google atm); he was like 18 or 19 years old and to this day is the youngest TdF winner.
You are spot on - there has always been some form of cheating. Art follows reality - who could forget the italians putting a frame pump in Dave Stoller's spokes?

The use of amphetamines has been well known. Fignon admitted to doping when he was in the terminal stages of his cancer. The only difference is that the drugs have become more complex/better.

That's why I don't put anyone on a pedastal.

[velotel]

Drugs are part of our culture, cheating is part of our culture, but above all winning is paramount in our culture. Anyone who thinks bicycle racing is going to be different is sucking down some very good hallucinogens. I'm just bummed that Contador isn't going to be going head to head with the others this year in the TdF. I still say forget banning drugs, legalize them and let the pharmaceutical companies go head to head sponsoring teams. Afterwards when the racers hit the health crash they could turn around and sue the drug companies for the cause of their cancers, or whatever they're going down from. Either that or eliminate the money from racing, no prize money, no salaries, just amateurs racing over the mountains to see who's fastest. Oops, I forgot, they've already been busting old guys racing masters for doing drugs to win and there's no money there. Just inflated egos. But no money would still sure cut down on the drug intake.

[Jaq]

They outta just sequester the riders after every stage. Toss 'em in a huge field tent, feed 'em in a chow line, assign them chaperones just to take a pee.

[dekindy]

They outta just sequester the riders after every stage. Toss 'em in a huge field tent, feed 'em in a chow line, assign them chaperones just to take a pee.

That is actually a pretty good idea. Test everyone daily 2 weeks prior to the Grand Tours, major Spring Classics, all food, water, supplements comes from the race organizers and competitors sleep dorm style during the event. Radical but effective. It would be neat to see how this effects performance.