Serotta new model Friday?

[scooter01]

Isn't friday the Sunflower auction? Will this be the day for the intro of the new model? What will it be? All carbon? maybe a new cross?
My thoughts are that it will still be a road bike, not a cross or MB.
Based on absolutley nothing.
Has any "new" info on this secret model come forward?

Hey, Alexis any hints this final week??

[dirtdigger88]

maybe a luged steel frame. . . wait. . .nevermind

Jason

[BumbleBeeDave]

Ottrott Tricycle. :eek:

BBD

[Kevin]

A lugged CSI :D

Kevin

[Bill Bove]

My guess. All carbon with carbon lugs or maybe as Bruce K has opined, intrictley cut Ti lugs on all carbon bike like the fancy Merlins and IF's, could be...

[Ginger]

I didn't think the new model was going to be announced until September...

[dbrk]

I think it's bound to be another expensive one, either all carbon (though how Serotta will lay up with carbon lugs offering enough of their custom options is beyond me...so perhaps the first all-carbon bike will have...shutter...only limited custom options and stock sizes...now wouldn't that be a terrible idea...{more shuttering...}...{I'll stop being facetious now... at least for a few sentences...} or it will be, as Bill says, with customized titanium lugs/sleeves like Merlin and IF.

A friend of mine has the notion that the next bike might offer basically a steel Ottrott, that is, where the lugs are steel, sort of Lemond-ish/Seven's already done that sorta'thing thing. This would lower the price point and if they went with the Nove tubing still more. Now we might see a screw and glue for less than 3K for the frame {more facetiousness deleted here...}. This sort of "Atlanta" of carbon would make sense given the archaic prospects of steel. I would also look for the demise of the CIII and the only steel being the CdA. Why? Margins!

My predictions mean less than nothing, of course.

[Tom]

and my brother produces carbon molds for the glass blowers at his company on one of those things.... CNC the carbon lugs, maybe? Methinks you could do just about anything.

Simon Pearce himself was leading some people around the plant one day and my brother appeared all covered in carbon dust... Pearce introduces his plant manager to these people, Theo shakes hands all around... everybody now has black hands like the old binoculars prank.

[Bill Bove]

I don't know Doug, bonding steel to carbon is not as effective as Ti to carbon so I don't think it'll be a steel/carbon Otrott type bike. My preference would be an aluminum/carbon Nove but my desires are worth as much as your opinion. I think the CIII is safe, it's relatively easy and inexspensive to build, I could see them limiting it and the CDA to stock sizes though to free up the staff to concentrate on more profitable models.

[victoryfactory]

I asked Ben at the open house if we would be seeing an all carbon
Serotta soon and he replied with a funny smile which I took to mean "yes"
But then again, it was after that famous 42 mile 90 degree ride.

VF

[Bruce K]

The website says the raffle ends in late September.

So far, no mention of the new bike. EVERYONE is being quite circumspect when you ask about the dream bike.

Time will tell.

If anything is said or shown at Sunflower Revolution, I SWEAR I will take some digipix and post them.

BK

[Fixed]

custom carbon with glue and carbon luggs my guess.

[Ginger]

The unveiling and drawing will take place on September 28, 2005. Winner will be notified by telephone. You do not have to be present to win, the custom-fitted bicycle will be delivered through a local participating Serotta dealer anywhere in the United States.

[Smiley]

I don't think they will eliminate Ti lugs , its what they do well with . I don't think they will eliminated the Ti chain Stays , too many dropped chains to mess up carbon . I think we see a Carbon seat tube ( even though they said that the seat tube is not important to be carbon in the past ) and maybe a really nice carbon head tube . Shucks did Trek do this 20 years ago . Yes but its a Serotta and Ben never claimed to do things first just do things better . Thats where my money's is . Also to make carbon lugs you got to work with resins and right now Serotta is not set up to work with this mess from an enviromental stand point . Thats why they let Reynolds build all their forks to the point that they don't even glue in the drop outs .

CSI ...what , my deposit is in on the new model cause it sounds tres sexy :banana:

[Bruce K]

Deposit ?!?!?!!!!

What about raffle tickets?

Not that I want lots of competition in the raffle, BUT, it is for the Davis Phinney Foundation, so, the more the merrier.

I actually do hope they sell every blessed ticket available. That would be VERY cool for the DPF.

BK

[Ginger]

I have my ticket. :banana:

I never win; it's a good cause. Buy a ticket!

[victoryfactory]

This really happened.....

[dbrk]

...I think the CIII is safe, it's relatively easy and inexspensive to build, I could see them limiting it and the CDA to stock sizes though to free up the staff to concentrate on more profitable models.

I'll go further: within five years there will be no more steel bikes from Serotta. Why? It is cost ineffective to continue to make them, particularly in terms of time spent. All of those braze-ons have to be brazed and that is far, far more time-consuming and hassle than welding. There are several steps involved (any frame builder can describe them) and, leaving aside the cost of tubing, it's the brazing, cutting, cleaning up, etc., that will leave us with only titanium (very good margins) and carbon. I'm not the only one who thinks this and I'm sure it's not a popular opinion but it has merit because steel is simply just too costly and the margins are so, so much better on the other models.

dbrk

[Big Dan]

Agree with Douglas, for another example check out what Steelman features now.............

Maybe I should get my own torch........... :D

[Dr. Doofus]

doug

brooks lack of steel

once again

patient man


for custom carbon

71, 71.5, 72, 72.5, 73, 73.5, 74

there

BB shells, seat lugs done

head lugs

done

no framebuilder, doof

but

traditional angles cover bases

perhaps

no 72.7

(obsessives decry)

such lug options made CSi faithful happy

[Serotta PETE]

Spokes has one of the "mystery" frames in his home....Sandy is sneaking around to get the first picture :rolleyes:

[MartyE]

. . . I also get the impression from Steve that we can forget about Fillet brazed C-III for awhile too . Sorry

from the CSi thread.

Highly doubt it will be anything other than Carbon Fibre.

marty

[dbrk]

It's all over but the speculation. This may not be "my victory," but it will belong to someone here, I'm sure...

Yup, it's gonna be all carbon.

mea culpa,

dbrk

[Dr. Doofus]

doof has said it for a year and a half now

still doesn't like it

still wouldn't ride it

[PBWrench]

Victory Awaits! Serotta announces the new MEIVICI!

Saratoga Springs, NY.



Speculation about Serotta’s new bike has grown in recent months since the announcement that serial number 00001 of the company’s new super-bike will be awarded to this year’s raffle winner for the Davis Phinney Parkinson’s Foundation. Now, the secret is finally out – Serotta Competition Bicycles will officially introduce its all-new, all-American, all-carbon, custom-fitted bicycle at this year’s Interbike Bicycling Expo to be held September 26-29 in Las Vegas.



Meivici (may-VEE-chee) is a composite word straight from the Serotta dictionary with Latin roots meaning – my/mine; victory/conquest and according to Serotta, it’s a metaphor for personal victory or achievement. Company founder and CEO Ben Serotta explains, “This bike exemplifies all that we stand for – quality, service, American craftsmanship, performance, and customization, and delivers it to the Nth degree. Thus, the Meivici is like our personal victory. Yet cycling is all about personal victories, great and small, whether conquering internal demons of defeat, cresting an impossible climb, finishing your first century or winning a World Championship. So we thought the definitive symbol of victory for us, would by definition be a symbol of personal victory to everyone that may come to possess a Meivici.”



Bringing the Meivici to production represents a level of commitment well beyond the normal expectations of a small independent bicycle company, an effort not for the feint-of-heart entrepreneur. To accommodate the Meivici, Serotta recently moved its administrative offices to a 200 year old farmhouse that sits next to the factory on site to make room for new machinery and needed manufacturing space. Jared Porter, the company’s manufacturing supervisor acknowledges, “The staff here is excited, confident and ready to apply their unique skills to this new form of personal cycling expression in all carbon.” Porter added, “Today, almost all bicycles, including all-carbon models are produced in Asia and the ones made here use mostly imported parts. We are maniacal sticklers for over-all quality so maintaining our production exclusively ‘in-house’ allows us the control we need. We’re one of the very few companies that can say “We’re American made,”….and really mean American made. Building it here also gives us greater control over our intellectual properties…which abound in a bike like the Meivici.”



Jason Clark, Serotta’s Director of Product Development who has overseen the daunting Meivici project states, “This bike has exceeded our expectations every step of the way. Prototype tests have shown that the Meivici will live up to our product ideals- increased performance values plus Serotta’s highest manufacturing standards of precision, strength, safety, longevity and aesthetic detail.” Adding, “The Ottrott (currently the Company’s flagship model) has offered the most personalized ride performance of any bicycle previously built, from geometry, ride performance tuning and unique finishes. The Meivici offers more ways to personalize performance and appearance than ever before.”



According to Serotta, “Just like the Ottrott has been the industry’s most lauded road bicycle of the last three years, we are confident that the Meivici will equally impress the most jaded cycling aficionados.” The composite construction that’s employed enables Serotta to establish torque and load specifications for each part that exceeds the tunable range of metallic components, and the Meivici takes full advantage of the materials capability. “With the help of Reynolds Composites lead engineer Mike Lopez, the Meivici meets Serotta standards in every way,” said Serotta. “Our goal behind every new product is to deliver a bicycle that can distinguish itself as the best in its field. This is not the first all carbon custom frame to hit the market, but it’s by far the most performance tunable, the most customizable in every way from fit to finish. Our goal is simple, it’s not important to be the first, it’s not important to be the lightest, it’s only important that it’s the best. We’re confident that the Meivici is the best all carbon bicycle ever built.”



The custom made Meivici will enter normalized production in early 2006. If you just can’t wait, the company says it will produce a very Limited Release of 21 Meivici bicycles between October and December to ease the transition into full (albeit still limited) production capability. Serotta says it will begin accepting orders for the specially marked Meivici LR on August 18.



If you can’t wait until news coverage of Interbike…Serotta says you can take a sneak peek August 20, 2 at the Davis Phinney Foundation’s annual Sunflower Revolution in Cincinnati, Eurobike (Germany) September 1-4 and at the San Francisco Gran Prix, September 3-4.

[dbrk]

Like I said above. We get an all carbon bike the same week we see the end of the CSi. I think I'm supposed to cry and applaud but I find myself only doing one of those two things...hmm.

given my bad attitude, maybe I should go away for a good long while, you tell me,

dbrk

[William]

....All for only $8,000 dollars for the frame and fork. :banana: No, wait... :crap:


Ok, I made up the price. Unless I missed it earlier, any guesstimates on price?

William

[victoryfactory]

But I didn't know Ben was gonna name it after me too...
Aw shucks
Now I have to get one.

VF

[PBWrench]

Limited Release MeiVici model will be sold as a frame and fork combination for $7995

[Tom]

I like metal bikes. OK, OK, I have a carbon fork but the triangle is metal and the stays are metal and the stem is metal and the seatpost is metal and the cranks are metal and the wheels are metal and the bars are metal (on one of them.) All right! I'm not consistent! Pfffttthhhttthhh to you and your silly integrity!

The market segment I represent is the guy that beats the crap out of his bike out of pure stupidity. I need a metal bike. It taxes my intellect to its utmost to watch out for that carbon fork. Put more of that on the bike and my brain just frazzles to a hard stop.

I probably shouldn't say this but the Ottrott does nothing for me. I think that this new model will be all that they say it is but I think it's for somebody else.

Added: I do hope it is a success.

[William]

Limited Release MeiVici model will be sold as a frame and fork combination for $7995

DANG! I should have bought a lottery ticket today! :rolleyes:

William

[Roy E. Munson]

Limited Release MeiVici model will be sold as a frame and fork combination for $7995

This is a joke, right?

[Sandy]

I think that is time for me to start another tuna fish sandwich thread.

Sandy

[Johny]

Limited Release MeiVici model will be sold as a frame and fork combination for $7995

This makes Parlee Z-1 and Colnago C50 Extreme really good deals.

Sorry for the Ottrott owners: you just do not own the most expensive and the very best bike anymore.

[William]

Sorry for the Ottrott owners: you just do not own the most expensive and the very best bike anymore.

Carrot and stick my friend, carrot-and-stick. ;)

William

[Johny]

BTW, who is gonna be the first one with MeiVici in their user name?

[Roy E. Munson]

Carrot and stick my friend, carrot-and-stick

Hook, line, and sinker is what comes to my mind. :banana:

[Andreu]

carbon now.....after all the European offerings of Carbon (and US too). Have they missed the boat? Or is this offering something else...e.g. a new technology (lighter, stronger, looks like steel)?
Interesting stuff.
A

[MartyE]

Limited Release MeiVici model will be sold as a frame and fork combination for $7995
As Kenny Rodgers said "You've got to know when to fold em. . . "

wonder how many of us just folded?
and here I thought the Ottrott was expensive.
Figure the regular frame will sell for what $5995 ?

marty

[fiamme red]

I think that is time for me to start another tuna fish sandwich thread.Hey! I skipped lunch today! You're making me hungry.

[92degrees]

Sorry for the Ottrott owners: you just do not own the most expensive and the very best bike anymore.

weird, i just got back from a lunchtime 25 on my Ottrott and it rode exactly the same as ever. maybe it hasn't seen the press release yet?

what i don't understand, is why the early "shakedown" frames are offered at a premium over later production-run examples? shouldn't it be the opposite?
;)

[Climb01742]

more than twice the price of a parlee Z1. hard to imagine a frame being 100% better, or even 10% better. but maybe my imagination just ain't good enough. :D

[Johny]

I think that is time for me to start another tuna fish sandwich thread.

Sandy


Dear Sandy,

I thought you are gonna start a "MeiVici: my Ottrott on steroids". Too much steroid these days...

[Tom]

Another model that ain't nobody gonna know how to pronounce!

[slowgoing]

Well, at least it has a Latin name (albeit composite) to match that of its Italian named maker. I didn't think the run of French names made much sense, but I'm admittedly jaded.

Custom lugged carbon. Calfee and Parlee may not be happy about this, although they are suddenly reasonably priced in comparison. The margins will be huge once the equipment cost is recouped, maybe even more than the entire price of a CSi.

[Dr. Doofus]

to get cash for "my victory"

work lots

to work lots

no time to ride

only "victories" involved:

"I've pursued a career in a lucrative field and made the necessary sacrifices to blow $12,000 on a bicycle...

(*whoosh* sound moving past)

...gee...that skinny guy on the steel bike sure is fast..."

if the 1500.00 CIII gets phased out for more zoot

doof could give a rats *** about serotta

(except for the 02 fork on his blue bike)

doof jealous?

perhaps

disgusted at direction of bike industry?

absolutely

off to drool at kick-butt affordable steel frames

(all six of em)

[Sandy]

You got that right! In more ways than one.


Sandy

[Sandy]

My Ottrott is archaic. What am I to do???


Sandy

[JohnS]

more than twice the price of a parlee Z1. hard to imagine a frame being 100% better, or even 10% better. but maybe my imagination just ain't good enough. :D
You would think that the #1 poster on the forum would get a shakedown frame for his ride up Mt. Washington. Think of all the publicity that would geton this forum.

[Sandy]

Well said.


Sandy

[Serpico]

read victory factory's post (with the pic) and dbrk's post #23... PBwrench's "press release" is a joke

[92degrees]

read victory factory's post (with the pic) and dbrk's post #23... PBwrench's "press release" is a joke

so the Owners Club Email from Ben is part of an elaborate joke?
:p

[Johny]

weird, i just got back from a lunchtime 25 on my Ottrott and it rode exactly the same as ever. maybe it hasn't seen the press release yet?


My CSi never reads newspaper. He still believes he is the best. I will start his carbon and steroid diet though; hopefully he will get stronger than the MeiVici.

[Climb01742]

You would think that the #1 poster on the forum would get a shakedown frame for his ride up Mt. Washington. Think of all the publicity that would geton this forum.

yeah!!!!!




ps: bbdave is actually numero uno, i believe. and william is closing in fast. :beer:

[92degrees]

My CSi never reads newspaper. He still believes he is the best. I will start his carbon and steroid diet though; hopefully he will get stronger than the MeiVici.

bliss is blissfully blissful

enjoy that CSi! i was just speaking with my fitter a few weeks ago about a steel bike project. unfortunately now it looks like it will have something else on the DT....

[Serpico]

so the Owners Club Email from Ben is part of an elaborate joke?
:p

did I just get pwned?

so they read the email and were hinting at it before PBWrench posted the actual email?

8k for a frameset?

[92degrees]

did I just get pwned?

so they read the email and were hinting at it before PBWrench posted the actual email?

8k for a frameset?

i read it in email before it was posted here. but have no idea how much some people know -- or when. i always presume that everyone here knows more than me, has known it longer, and understands it better.

that's why i lurk here umpteen hours a day
:beer:

[William]

ps: bbdave is actually numero uno, i believe. and william is closing in fast. :beer:

Shhhhhhh.

William ;)

[William]

read victory factory's post (with the pic) and dbrk's post #23... PBwrench's "press release" is a joke

Well, even if it is a joke, it goes to show you that people wouldn't be surprised with the way the prices are heading in this industry.

William

[Tmogul]

Well they had to top the price of the Colibri frame from temple cycles right? The bar was 6500 but now the sky is the limit. ;)

So then what is the market telling us then.....carbon the material of the future? Is Ti/carbon just a transition zone between full ti and full carbon.....or an inferior attempt at the perfect frame? I think we all knew the next model would be another flagship model in full carbon. Merlin did the same thing and came out with the proteus. I have no idea what the reviews have been.

However if serotta can actually shape these tubes and taper them and vary the layers of carbon etc. then I guess you could easily conclude that at least in theory they will have more control over every aspect off frame development than with ti or ti/carbon. Does this give you a better bike in the end? Who knows. At this price though I would think a buyer would start looking into many other options then......call ernesto directly to make a custom colnago president or something or maybe even get Time to do the same etc.

If carbon is so superior then why does a ti company bother to continue using ti. Will ti frames head down the path of steel frames.....adored by hard core enthusiasts only?

[Johny]

My Ottrott is archaic. What am I to do???


Sandy

Eat tuna fish sandwiches without tuna???

[MartyE]

. . .
If carbon is so superior then why does a ti company bother to continue using ti. Will ti frames head down the path of steel frames.....adored by hard core enthusiasts only?
I believe so. In 5 years or so (more than a lifetime in terms
of bike models) we will be here lamenting the loss of the Legend,
the last of the Serotta metallic bikes.

[JohnS]

If carbon is so superior then why does a ti company bother to continue using ti. Will ti frames head down the path of steel frames.....adored by hard core enthusiasts only?
Chant after me..."titanium is real, steel is real (old)!" :D

[William]

KP predicted injection molded frames to be the near future.

Where's my polycarbonate rod???? WHOOOSH!! :eek:

William

[Johny]

..call ernesto directly to make a custom colnago president

http://www.competitivecyclist.com/za/CCY?PAGE=PRODUCT&PRODUCT.ID=1252

For $7799.99, you still have some change to buy your buddies beer from $7995.

[Johny]

Chant after me..."titanium is real, steel is real (old)!" :D

Hey I thought we are friends now since your titanium and my steel are all archaic. :D

[slowgoing]

http://www.competitivecyclist.com/za/CCY?PAGE=PRODUCT&PRODUCT.ID=1252

For $7799.99, you still have some change to buy your buddies beer from $7995.

Johny, I think the $7799.00 is for the entire Colnago bike, not just the frame and fork. Not custom, however.

[Johny]

Johny, I think the $7799.00 is for the entire Colnago bike, not just the frame and fork. Not custom, however.

slow, I know it is for the whole bike. Perhaps Ben knows it is not a custom.

[Ginger]

You know...the whole new frame thing is interesting. But they really need an editor/proof reader. Some of their incorrect spellings and awkward wording need to be corrected. Name the bikes anything you please, but get the word usage in the text correct!

It isn't FEINT of Heart; it's FAINT of Heart or fainthearted.


Main Entry: faint•heart•ed
Pronunciation: 'fAnt-'här-t&d
Function: adjective
: lacking courage or resolution : TIMID
- faint•heart•ed•ly adverb
- faint•heart•ed•ness noun

Main Entry: 1feint
Pronunciation: 'fAnt
Function: noun
Etymology: French feinte, from Old French, from feint, past participle of feindre
: something feigned; specifically : a mock blow or attack on or toward one part in order to distract attention from the point one really intends to attack


Rant off. You may now return to your regularly scheduled program.

[Tom]

I see a lot of cars on the way home that I know cost more than $30,000. I see slightly fewer that cost between $35,000 and $45,000. I'll see at least one that probably runs about $50,000 and these are, to the people that bought them, the basic transportation to work and back home. For example, that Lexus SUV starts at $37,000 and you can get the "Navigation System/Mark Levinson® Package" (who the hell is this Levinson guy?) for about the cost of a Legend - another $6700. There's a market for this kind of stuff.

Me, I'm not going to spend more than $20,000 on a car plus it has to get 35mpg and last 15 years. It's all one's perspective. Those expensive cars don't do anything for me... but if I had a big pile of extra money I'd buy Karen that '65 red Mustang convertible.

[William]

You know...the whole new frame thing is interesting. But they really need an editor/proof reader. Some of their incorrect spellings and awkward wording needs to be corrected. Name the bikes anything you please, but get the word usage in the text correct!

It isn't FEINT of Heart; it's FAINT of Heart or fainthearted.


Main Entry: faint•heart•ed
Pronunciation: 'fAnt-'här-t&d
Function: adjective
: lacking courage or resolution : TIMID
- faint•heart•ed•ly adverb
- faint•heart•ed•ness noun

Main Entry: 1feint
Pronunciation: 'fAnt
Function: noun
Etymology: French feinte, from Old French, from feint, past participle of feindre
: something feigned; specifically : a mock blow or attack on or toward one part in order to distract attention from the point one really intends to attack


Rant off. You may now return to your regularly scheduled program.

I like a really smart woman. :D

With respect,
William :D

[Ginger]

It could be argued that it was a clue that the note is an April Fools joke, but I don't think so.

Thanks William. (Even though you have been listed as a smart a yoda; I'll take your comment as a compliment.)

[William]

Thanks William. (Even though you have been listed as a smart a yoda; I'll take your comment as a compliment.)

It was. :)

William

[harlond]

is a designer and maker of extremely high end audio equipment.

[QUOTE=Tom]For example, that Lexus SUV starts at $37,000 and you can get the "Navigation System/Mark Levinson® Package" (who the hell is this Levinson guy?) for about the cost of a Legend - another $6700. There's a market for this kind of stuff.

[victoryfactory]

read victory factory's post (with the pic) and dbrk's post #23... PBwrench's "press release" is a joke

Yo; Serpico
I don't know about PBWrench and Dbrk but I didn't know anything specific
before I posted my stupid picture, I was just goofing around.

Here is a copy of my post from last year when I first started hassling Ben
(indirectly) about an all carbon Frame which I presumed at the time was
inevitable:

I've been standing in line here at the factory for my All Carbon Serotta Frame for 6 months so far, I wish they would come out and give me a number or one of those bracelets they hand out for rock concert tickets.

VF, sign me up for a Carbon Serotta...

BTW, since I wrote that I have become less enamored of all carbon,
I have yet to ride one that is not too stiff for my taste. Maybe that's why
racers like them. However I'll reserve judgement on the Serotta version
out of respect for their track record.
As far as the rumoured cost, YIKES!

VF

PS; To Slowgoing: I think the name "Serotta" might actually be Spanish?

[slowgoing]

"This has been a Mark Levinson .... production."

Isn't that engrained into all of our long term memories?

Er, apparently not in mine. I got it all wrong!

[aj4e]

It isn't FEINT of Heart; it's FAINT of Heart or fainthearted

I thought the same thing, but I googled "feint of heart" and it seems that is a socially acceptable (albeit grammatically incorrect) way to spell the phrase. It still irks me, just like people using "irregardless" to mean "regardless." Popular usage can allow the errors of some to become commonplace and those of us who know better can only shake our heads or throw up our hands in disgust.

[JohnS]

I thought the same thing, but I googled "feint of heart" and it seems that is a socially acceptable (albeit grammatically incorrect) way to spell the phrase. It still irks me, just like people using "irregardless" to mean "regardless." Popular usage can allow the errors of some to become commonplace and those of us who know better can only shake our heads or throw up our hands in disgust.
Or a fellow edumacated forumite shuttering repeatedly. I was shuddering just thinking about it! ;)

[Dr. Doofus]

I thought the same thing, but I googled "feint of heart" and it seems that is a socially acceptable (albeit grammatically incorrect) way to spell the phrase. It still irks me, just like people using "irregardless" to mean "regardless." Popular usage can allow the errors of some to become commonplace and those of us who know better can only shake our heads or throw up our hands in disgust.

dfoo's student:

"you know what I mean! Why does it matter if I get my point across"*

oofd:

"Reading your words closely is the only way I can understand your point. The words matter."

works

rarely

though

sometimes


*actual, not off-brand, snotty vassar-bound senior, 2003.



Bike Content:

Carbon Sucks

[aj4e]

Or a fellow edumacated forumite shuttering repeatedly. I was shuddering just thinking about it! ;)

I got a few giggles out of that one, too! :D

[Climb01742]

BTW, since I wrote that I have become less enamored of all carbon,
I have yet to ride one that is not too stiff for my taste.

VF, have you ever ridden a parlee? it might change your mind.

[Climb01742]

Bike Content:Carbon Sucks

curious, good doctor, which carbon frames have you so disinclined? my undoubtedly biased take on this new serotta frame is: they're playing catch-up. arguably (i admit, very arguably) based on riding an ottrott, a parlee and a vxrs, it's time to play catch up. i bet the jerk would say catching up to a c50 as well.

[Serpico]

...

Popular usage can allow the errors of some to become commonplace and those of us who know better can only shake our heads or throw up our hands in disgust.

Personally, I could care less.

:p

[JohnS]

Personally, Icould care less.

:p
So, spelling and grammar aren't important any longer? Have we all become ignorant? It's not rocket science. The nuns beat it into me way back in elementary school. :)

[Bruce K]

The e-mail went to Owner's Club members first.

It is not a joke.

Beyond winning one in the DPF raffle, I personally will remain contented with my Ottrott. I have had the chance to ride a bunch of bikes over the last year and for me, my Ottrott is the best all around bike by far. Others may do some things better, but (again) for me, I wouldn't give up my Ottrott for any of them.

BTW, I believe if you look, you will see that Davis' foundation motto is "Every Victory Counts"

If the new bike name translates as "My Victory" and is being unveiled at the Sunflower Revolution, can we put the pieces together?

BK

[ergott]

Any raffle tickets left?

[Dr. Doofus]

curious, good doctor, which carbon frames have you so disinclined? my undoubtedly biased take on this new serotta frame is: they're playing catch-up. arguably (i admit, very arguably) based on riding an ottrott, a parlee and a vxrs, it's time to play catch up. i bet the jerk would say catching up to a c50 as well.


carbon frames can make amazing bikes...C-40, C-50, OCLV, Time, Parlee, Calfee, Cervelo...they all kick butt

budget curmudgeon doof has seen four totaled frames this year at races...out of how many riders...hundreds...so, a rare chance...but still...your fodo can't throw cash around like that. steel it is.

carbon ride it bike -- for doof, superb

carbon race it bike -- for doof, serious drawbacks

[Bruce K]

I believe there are tickets left.

Go to the Oakley Cycles website or the Davis Phinney Foundation website for links to the raffle.

BK

[Ginger]

I have enough errors in my own posts to be skewered on the grammar topic myself.
:-)

I just expect an introduction letter for a new product sent out by a respected company to their best customers to be vetted better than that.
If you're going to use a gratuitous throw-away phrase, you should get it right. Not "socially acceptable" right, right-right.

[Needs Help]

what i don't understand, is why the early "shakedown" frames are offered at a premium over later production-run examples? shouldn't it be the opposite?
I still remember the guy who was screaming bloody murder when only a couple months after he took delivery of his first run Ottrott, Serotta offered the ST stay option. He claimed Serotta misled him about the Ottrott being the pinnacle of bikedom.

If carbon is so superior then why does a ti company bother to continue using ti. Will ti frames head down the path of steel frames.....adored by hard core enthusiasts only?
If carbon is so strong, how come no company can make a 64cm carbon frame that won't break? There is evidence on ebay that Calfee isn't successful and Parlee won't attempt it. Can Serotta?

[Climb01742]

I have enough errors in my own posts to be skewered on the grammar topic myself.
:-)

I just expect an introduction letter for a new product sent out by a respected company to their best customers to be vetted better than that.
If you're going to use a gratuitous throw-away phrase, you should get it right. Not "socially acceptable" right, right-right.

as at most bike-related companies, the skilled folks are on the factory floor. someone's cousin is in the marketing office.

[shinomaster]

It is an Ottrott recumbant. Comfort and light weight for all... :banana:

[William]

If carbon is so strong, how come no company can make a 64cm carbon frame that won't break? There is evidence on ebay that Calfee isn't successful and Parlee won't attempt it. Can Serotta?

And carbon is the way the industry is heading??? :confused:

And if someone built a carbon frame in my size, what's it going to weigh? To have the proper tubing size to discourage breakage, probably just as much or more then a steel frame? Then I would have to ask myself, what's the point?

Granted I'm on the far side of the bell curve with just a few of my buddies. Forgotten as usual. :D

William

[AlysonWnderland]

as at most bike-related companies, the skilled folks are on the factory floor. someone's cousin is in the marketing office.


Now Climb, what if the person in the marketing office who wrote that press release happened to read that? They could ask Sherrif James to ban you! :no: ;) :banana:

[Bruce K]

She's baaaacccckkkk ....... :banana: :rolleyes: :banana:

Hi Alyson, how are things living amongst our DC brethren? ;)

BK

[BumbleBeeDave]

<<as at most bike-related companies, the skilled folks are on the factory floor. someone's cousin is in the marketing office.>>

I think this is a humorously-well-intentioned, but unfair comment. I would doubt that Serotta has any one person whose trained specialty or sole duty is marketing. It's not a large company. Additionally, successful marketing involves carefully controlled release of information to create demand. In many cases the very existence of this forum, populated with many who either work at Serotta or personally know employees, would make it almost impossible to exercise that information control even if they did have someone with a full degree in marketing. In some cases that could be great--to create the demand through advance "buzz." In others, like the Tuna Fish Sandwich thread, it would be very bad, because it exposes their marketing effort to criticism they are powerless to prevent except by making the thread disappear and thereby creating a severe PR problem for themselves with these very same people who they are relying upon to spread the word and create demand.

On the other hand, careless mistakes in press releases might legitimately make me wonder how carefully they are building my bike. Similarly, when I have a job applicant who sends me a cover letter and resume with typos, I have to wonder how well they would work for me if they can't even give me their best on the application.

BBDave

[92degrees]

I still remember the guy who was screaming bloody murder when only a couple months after he took delivery of his first run Ottrott, Serotta offered the ST stay option. He claimed Serotta misled him about the Ottrott being the pinnacle of bikedom.

There's a touch of the opposite at work for me in this situation. I'm very slightly relieved that with IF's XS and this new bike, when I show up at rides people will no longer think they know something about me based on my frame. It's no longer the most expensive pinnacle...it's just a frame that I test rode and loved.

[Too Tall]

Other than his job as Sheriff isn't James the "Marketing" guy?

[Serpico]

...

Popular usage can allow the errors of some to become commonplace and those of us who know better can only shake our heads or throw up our hands in disgust.


Personally, I could care less.

:p


So, spelling and grammar aren't important any longer? Have we all become ignorant? It's not rocket science. The nuns beat it into me way back in elementary school. :)

I was kidding--the correct usage is "I couldn't care less".

:)

[Ginger]

Climb: Yep. As a writer in marketing I've seen it way too often to say you're wrong.

Hiring outside help to edit/proof that sort of thing is practically dirt cheap compared to the negative impression an incorrectly applied phrase can make on an audience. Of course, the company has to realize they need real editing help before they get it...maybe there's a 12-step program for that sort of thing?

careless mistakes in press releases might legitimately make me wonder how carefully they are building my bike.

Yep.

[palincss]

I'll go further: within five years there will be no more steel bikes from Serotta. Why? It is cost ineffective to continue to make them, particularly in terms of time spent. All of those braze-ons have to be brazed and that is far, far more time-consuming and hassle than welding. There are several steps involved (any frame builder can describe them) and, leaving aside the cost of tubing, it's the brazing, cutting, cleaning up, etc., that will leave us with only titanium (very good margins) and carbon. I'm not the only one who thinks this and I'm sure it's not a popular opinion but it has merit because steel is simply just too costly and the margins are so, so much better on the other models.

dbrk

And yet it seels to be entirely cost-effective to have TIG welded Kogswells, Gunnars, even LeMonds. Are you sure it's steel that presents these issues, and not brazing? For that matter, what "brazed on bits" are more difficult to attach to steel frames than aluminum? And lord knows, the price of a welded Alu frame seems to be roughly the same as that of a pound bag of walnuts.

[cpg]

And yet it seels to be entirely cost-effective to have TIG welded Kogswells, Gunnars, even LeMonds. Are you sure it's steel that presents these issues, and not brazing? For that matter, what "brazed on bits" are more difficult to attach to steel frames than aluminum? And lord knows, the price of a welded Alu frame seems to be roughly the same as that of a pound bag of walnuts.

Kogswells are built in Taiwan/China for pennies due to cheap labor. Gunnars are built at Waterford where they still do lots of brazing. Lemonds have most of their braze ons welded on. So how do these examples apply? I believe the point dbrk was making was that as Serotta discontinues the Csi the next step will be to eliminate all brazing which will lead to the elimination of all steel models. You're right the brazed on bits can be welded but this is generally reserved as a cost cutting short cut with steel frames that have thick walled tubes. Brazing braze ons on thin walled steel still is the best way to do it. I would add that steel will be eliminated from the line up due to the fact steel is harder to cut, slower to weld, and less forgiving while welding compared to ti.

Curt

[Roy E. Munson]

And maybe in a few years, Serotta will be bought by Trek!

[Dr. Doofus]

And maybe in a few years, Serotta will be bought by Trek!

they'll need a builder for the "Armstrong" brand