Question on Campy 11sp Power Torque and spacers

[phcollard]

Hi experts!

My Hampsten will soon be back from paint and I am considering switching to Campy Athena 11 speed :hello:

I have a small issue with this frame that I described here (http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=96536). The previous build was Shimano and I finally solved the issue by using a bottom bracket with a slightly longer spindle - an XTR Octalink instead of the 6500 BB in case you ask. The chainline was off by 1mm only but I didn't care as shifting was perfect.

So. I was reading about the current Athena crankset but I still don't get if it will work or not. I am guessing that to avoid the above issue I will have to add spacers between the BB shell and the cups. Maybe 1mm will do. But then will I be able to assemble the crankset and get it to work? Will the two parts of the crankset be able to "connect" securely?

That is the question!

Oh and while you are here I also heard that Campy 11 speed was noisy, hard to adjust, frequently drifting from adjustment, and the Campy chains were a pain to deal with. I think that's a pack of lies! No? :D

Cheers!

Philippe.

[AngryScientist]

Philippe my man - the first thing you absolutely must do is measure your bottom bracket shell, the width that is. then, you must go to the instructions for powertorque cranksets. that document is located here:

http://www.campagnolo.com/repository/documenti/en/Power_torque_11S.pdf

the bottom bracket shell MUST be in the range shown on that document for "x". you can not exceed that number with spacers, or you risk an unsecure connection of the bottom bracket itself. if the crank arms are still hitting the frame and you are at the maximum "x" dimension, you are out of luck using a PT crankset.

campy-11 is phenomenal. i would always go for UT shifters over PT, but in reality they both work very good. i've got both. UT is nice for the multiple shift feature. neither is noisy, hard to adjust or finicky. any good mechanic can get it running smoothly very quickly.

PM me if you need any help.

cheers.

[phcollard]

Thanks a lot Scientist!

I admit I should have searched for technical docs first. They say 68.8mm max. width for the BB shell. I guess I'm already out of range with 1mm spacer on each side then :crap:

I have to read more, but maybe I would be better to get a 10 speed group with a classic square taper BB/crankset. I least I know I can play with spindle length without problem.

Thanks again!

[AngryScientist]

there's no reason to abandon 11-sp because of this issue. 11-sp works just fine with 10-sp cranksets. if your current crankset is working fine, you can keep that and go to 11-sp for the rest of the bike, or use a ST campy crank, which always looks good, and will also work fine for 11-sp.

another option (which i really know nothing about...) is to look into cyclocross specific cranksets (campy makes one). these are often spaced with greater chainstay clearance cx bikes require.

[phcollard]

there's no reason to abandon 11-sp because of this issue. 11-sp works just fine with 10-sp cranksets. if your current crankset is working fine, you can keep that and go to 11-sp for the rest of the bike, or use a ST campy crank, which always looks good, and will also work fine for 11-sp.

Aaah yes that's a great idea! So I could get a whole Athena 11sp group minus the crankset and get for instance a Chorus crankset for 10sp with square taper and all the components will be happy all together?

Sorry I know I must sound dumb but learning Campy is harder than learning Shimano... :)

[fatallightning]

Thanks a lot Scientist!

I admit I should have searched for technical docs first. They say 68.8mm max. width for the BB shell. I guess I'm already out of range with 1mm spacer on each side then :crap:

I have to read more, but maybe I would be better to get a 10 speed group with a classic square taper BB/crankset. I least I know I can play with spindle length without problem.

Thanks again!
Square taper alloy campy crank, alloy athena 11 everything else. Perfick.

[AngryScientist]

Aaah yes that's a great idea! So I could get a whole Athena 11sp group minus the crankset and get for instance a Chorus crankset for 10sp with square taper and all the components will be happy all together?

Sorry I know I must sound dumb but learning Campy is harder than learning Shimano... :)

that will work just fine.

cant wait to see the build.

[phcollard]

that will work just fine.

cant wait to see the build.

Cool! I'm gonna shop around for the last minute sales tonight!

Here's a preview of the frame. It is still in the mail but Noah Rosen who refinished it was kind enough to send me a few pics. I'm in love.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7155/6785986819_13db8c0772_b.jpg

[bfd]

I had a similar problem. I have an old Calfee frame with the italian bb shell. When the left/non-drive side of my Sweet Wings crank broke, I was able to get a Campy Chorus compact carbon crank with 50/34 rings. I also picked up an italian threaded bb cups.

When I installed the crank, the inner ring hit the right chainstay. I had a 2mm spacer from my Sweet Wings, so I decided to install it between the bb cup and the frame. It moved the arm just enough to clear the inner chainring. Whoppee! I then went to tighten the fixing bolt and found that as I tighten, the bearings began to bind. I was nowhere near the required torque, but the crank would barely spin. Unloosen the fixing bolt, the bearing would free up and spin smoothly.

Ugh, I realized that as I was tightening the fixing bolt, the "wavy washer" was getting crush and causing the bearings to bind!

Bottom line, I now have a Campy Chorus carbon compact crank (say that 10x!) now sitting in the box that I'm probably going to have to sell.

For my bike, I was able to pull out an old Edco "competition" square taper bb to use with a silver TA Zephyr crankarms with black TA rings!

Bottom line, the bike is heavier, but the old TA cranks still look nice! Good Luck!

[Lionel]

If you can score an older 10s campy record crank they are great and look awesome and will work just fine with the campy Athena 11.

Beautiful frame.

[ultraman6970]

With 68mm BB shells to put a spacer shouldn't be a problem at all. As for the noise?? that depends of a lot of factors, the 11 groups have seen are pretty silent for me, maybe people rinse the new chains and wash the factory grease out, once u do that the chain gets super noise no matter what oil u use, well the oils i have moving around. 10 speed chainrings work just fine with 11 and if you want to make it even cheaper just get the cassette, chain and brifters because you can use that with 10 speed fd, rd and crankset.

In italian BB shells i'm not that sure because eventho I have used UT in 3 frames with italian shells I never got the problem of having the crankset to hit the stays at all in those frames ever. The other factor that when u do a cold setting the chain stay has to open around in the middle because if it opens in the shell area then u might have a clearance problem with the crankset.

For the user (BFD) having problems with UT and the spring washer and the spacer, well... IMO it should work with a 1 mm spacer w/o any problem. Is hard to know if the problem comes from the nature of UT when u tight it or from the wavy washer being crushed against the bearings, when u tight the cranksets thats what the washer does, and the cranks if are new wont move freely like with a lose ball bearing BB for example, so w/o seeing it is hard to tell from your description. For the record when u tight the UT and the crankset is new or barely used unless u have SR or record, the crankset wont spin more than 1 turn or two and then will stop. If that's what you see then is working right. As more you ride the lose it will get but new or barely used stuff is like that, once u ride you can't notice either. With lose ball bearings if the BB is too tight you can notice.

I would try w/o having the wavy washer in place, probably u dont needed once the spacer in the shell is in place.

Just noticed u are talking about a calfee, i believe the problem is like a design flaw, the topic came up before. Calfee i believe can fix the problem if you send them the bike from what I recall of the threads about the issue.

[bfd]

Just noticed u are talking about a calfee, i believe the problem is like a design flaw, the topic came up before. Calfee i believe can fix the problem if you send them the bike from what I recall of the threads about the issue.

Yup, I called Calfee and the fix would be to shave down the right/drive side chainstay enough to allow the chainring to clear. The cost to do that would be about $75, not too bad. However, the spot would need to be re-clearcoated, which would probably be another $100-150. Further, if I wanted my entire bike re-cleared, it would be almost $700 ($680).

However, what got me was they couldn't get to it for at least 3 weeks! Ugh, since I have another frame (steel) being repaired, I would be down to my junker - "they're doing me a favor if they steal it"bike....

Instead, I pulled out an old Edco Competition square taper BB I had and am using a TA Zephyr crank. Definitely heavier, but it works....Good Luck!