1 Leg Drills courtesy of SRAM

[tele]

6 miles into a nice mid-winter ride today:

[url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/62538017@N07/6777397341/]http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7148/6777397341_027079ab3f_z.jpg

crankarm threads basically let loose. Anyone know if SRAM will warranty that?

[DRietz]

SRAM warranties everything. So yeah.

Have a shop call 'em up for you.

[oldpotatoe]

6 miles into a nice mid-winter ride today:

[url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/62538017@N07/6777397341/]http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7148/6777397341_027079ab3f_z.jpg

crankarm threads basically let loose. Anyone know if SRAM will warranty that?

They will warranty anything for any reason..gotta do it thru a bike shop but...make sure you use pedal washers tho...

[tele]

They will warranty anything for any reason..gotta do it thru a bike shop but...make sure you use pedal washers tho...
the washers are on there....little good it did!

[Lovetoclimb]

Yikes! Might want to up and replace all the SRAM bits while you have it disassembled.

[Louis]

Bummer. One if the worst things about bike breakdowns is having to walk any distance in your road shoes (or socks, which I've also done before, but not in the winter).

Instead of having a company that "warrantied everything" I'd rather have a company that built things that did not need to be replaced on warranty, because they were designed and built such that they did not have that sort of catastrophic failure.

Sort of like Kia, when they claim that they have the best warranty in the business. Is it because their products are crappy and people won't buy them without that sort of promise? Makes me wonder.

[Chousen One]

+1

This is the reason I no longer ride Crank Bros. stuff. Terrific customer service, but damn those eggbeaters fail catastrophically when they fail, and the internet has me believing I'm not the only one of this opinion.

Wish Crank Bros. spent more on product QC and less on the flashy new packaging that came about a few years ago...

Glad yr safe at least

[harro]

I had a fsa crank arm fall off the spindle once.

[slowerthanyou]

SRAM=KIA? Yeah, that's about right.

[tele]

Bummer. One if the worst things about bike breakdowns is having to walk any distance in your road shoes (or socks, which I've also done before, but not in the winter).

No ****e, I rode about 5 relatively flat miles 1 legged and then the last mile home is up a series of hills. I tried to spin up with 1 leg but after almost falling over a couple of times, I did the walk of shame.

[Kontact]

And the pedals were torqued down hard? Threads pulling out on their own is really weird.

[DRietz]

And the pedals were torqued down hard? Threads pulling out on their own is really weird.

Honestly, not really surprising from SRAM in my experience.

[Kontact]

Honestly, not really surprising from SRAM in my experience.
You've seen pedal threads pulled out? Honestly, I don't think I've seen that on any correctly assembled crank, regardless of quality. The cheapest cast cranks have the same threads as the finest Campy forging, and all of them work.

SRAM has a reputation for problems with some Rival and early Force shifters, and some say that the GXP BBs don't last very long. But I haven't seen or heard of any real crankarm or brake caliper problems.

Not to be insulting to the OP, the pedals were either not tight (over 300 in/lbs.) or cross threaded at some point for something like this to happen.

Is this a carbon crank with a loose pedal insert? (I had thought they weren't actually inserts on SRAM, though.)

[benitosan1972]

I immediately thought about possible cross-threading too.

[ringcycles]

I think it would be hard to cross thread a single sided pedal to the crankarm. I've had no issues with SRAM cranks or shifters. Could the pedal spindle have been over tourqued without enough grease? That could be a bad combination especially for winter riding.

[FastVegan]

Same thing happened to me, older GXP force, nds, Lucky I caught it before it broke loose. SRAM gave me a new arm. If you need an GXP arm for the time being I have a spare 170 and 172.5 I could loan you.

SRAM stuff is junk, but they warranty it ALL!
In the past year I have had these parts replaced no question, no charge;

3 rival shifters (2 gear wheels broke the teeth off, one shift lever broke off)
Set of jockey wheels from a red (cracked)
Force GXP nds arm (pedal insert loose)
Red bb30 crank set (crank bolt holes broke)

They stand behind their product.

I have SRAM on all of my bikes.


Dave

[gearguywb]

Glad you are ok. Walking home sucks but it beats ending up on the pavement.

First time I have seen that...but yeah, anything can break. What's with all the hate? From reading the posts here Shimano and Campy have never had anything fail? Really?

[binxnyrwarrsoul]

SRAM is junk? Damn right!!! In over 26 years of hammering equipment, MTB, CX and Road, in NYC (including being hit by cabs, playing footsie with distracted NY drivers, dancing with NYC Buses, garbage trucks etc.), using Shimano and Campy, I have never, ever had THAT happen. They can warranty effing air, I would not own SRAM!!! Period! Sorry for the rant, but what happend to that crank arm is unacceptable!! Eff You Cee Kay SRAM!!! Before using SRAM, I'll walk first.

[Louis]

SRAM is junk? Damn right!!! ... They can warranty effing air, I would not own SRAM!!! Period! Sorry for the rant, but what happend to that crank arm is unacceptable!! Eff You Cee Kay SRAM!!! Before using SRAM, I'll walk first.

Dude, don't hold back. Tell us what you really think. ;)

[mack]

Looks like loose pedal un-threading to me......but that may be far too reasonable assertion for this thread....

[tele]

Looks like loose pedal un-threading to me......but that may be far too reasonable assertion for this thread....
why didnt I check that? :crap:

[pedlpwrd]

Dude, don't hold back. Tell us what you really think. ;)
LOL!!! I love this forum.

[Kontact]

Shimano and Campagnolo is junk? Damn right!!! In over 26 years of hammering equipment, MTB, CX and Road, in NYC (including being hit by cabs, playing footsie with distracted NY drivers, dancing with NYC Buses, garbage trucks etc.), using one piece BMX cranks, I have never, ever had THAT happen. They can warranty effing air, I would not own Shimano or Campagnolo!!! Period! Sorry for the rant, but what happend to these crank arms is unacceptable!! Eff You Cee Kay Shimano and Campagnolo!!! Before using Shimano and Campy, I'll walk first.

http://brokenbikeparts.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Broken-Campagnolo-Super-Record-Ultra-Torque-Crankset-1024x765.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_V54WWNeyyp4/SiaC2KfRNeI/AAAAAAAABX0/XixYXcktjyg/s400/4247_96478819466_563814466_2656217_2216906_n.jpg
http://www.roadgrime.com.au/file/broken_dura_ace_crank_61.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_RW7j06rnqck/SSrBmwU3nxI/AAAAAAAAARY/0VFOxOSkEK4/s400/duraAce.JPG

[Louis]

Stuff fails for lots of different reasons: bad design, bad manufacturing, overload, poor maintenance. All brands have seen some combination of all of the above.

Anecdotal evidence with n = a small number means nothing. You need a lot more data than what most folks have on hand to point the finger at any one manufacturer or product.

[gearguywb]

SRAM is junk? Damn right!!! In over 26 years of hammering equipment, MTB, CX and Road, in NYC (including being hit by cabs, playing footsie with distracted NY drivers, dancing with NYC Buses, garbage trucks etc.), using Shimano and Campy, I have never, ever had THAT happen. They can warranty effing air, I would not own SRAM!!! Period! Sorry for the rant, but what happend to that crank arm is unacceptable!! Eff You Cee Kay SRAM!!! Before using SRAM, I'll walk first.

Funniest thing I have heard in a long time.

Looks like you are going to walk a lot if you only ride equipment that NEVER fails :)

[572cv]

I keep a broken Campy crank in my shop as a reminder of the fact that not every piece of retail hardware is 'magnafluxed' . I was climbing hard up a hill and it just snapped- went over sideways and was startled to see that the pedal and half the crank was still attached to my shoe. The long walk home was diminished by a nice guy in a pickup truck.

[binxnyrwarrsoul]

Funniest thing I have heard in a long time.

Looks like you are going to walk a lot if you only ride equipment that NEVER fails :)
Didn't say my equipement never fails. I said what happend to that crank arm never happend to any of my cranks, Shimano or Campy. Ever. Of course both can fail, but what happend to that SRAM crankarm is simply from shoddy manufacturing. All I ever hear is "don't worry, SRAM will warranty anything", and I've heard it too many times. Don't trust SRAM, and wouldn't own it. IMO it's junk. Just my opinion.

[binxnyrwarrsoul]

"SRAM stuff is junk, but they warranty it ALL!
In the past year I have had these parts replaced no question, no charge;

3 rival shifters (2 gear wheels broke the teeth off, one shift lever broke off)
Set of jockey wheels from a red (cracked)
Force GXP nds arm (pedal insert loose)
Red bb30 crank set (crank bolt holes broke)"

I haven't had that many parts fail in the last 20 years, much less last year.

"Shimano and Campagnolo is junk? Damn right!!! In over 26 years of hammering equipment, MTB, CX and Road, in NYC (including being hit by cabs, playing footsie with distracted NY drivers, dancing with NYC Buses, garbage trucks etc.), using one piece BMX cranks, I have never, ever had THAT happen. They can warranty effing air, I would not own Shimano or Campagnolo!!! Period! Sorry for the rant, but what happend to these crank arms is unacceptable!! Eff You Cee Kay Shimano and Campagnolo!!! Before using Shimano and Campy, I'll walk first."

Nice editing, Kontact. Were all of those failures in your pics, "6 miles into a ride"?

[FastVegan]

None of my failures were "6 miles into a ride" Most were after years of racing CX, and all the broken parts were on cx race bikes. They were all purchased used, and sram replaces them.

Bike parts break, when sram stuff breaks you get new stuff for free very quick.

[Ti Designs]

Gotta ask about that broken left Dura-Ace arm, do we know how that failure started. It almost looks like there's a hole drilled in the back, but given the picture quality you could probably also say you see Elvis in profile...

[Kontact]

SRAM stuff is junk, but they warranty it ALL!
In the past year I have had these parts replaced no question, no charge;

3 rival shifters (2 gear wheels broke the teeth off, one shift lever broke off)
Set of jockey wheels from a red (cracked)
Force GXP nds arm (pedal insert loose)
Red bb30 crank set (crank bolt holes broke)

I haven't had that many parts fail in the last 20 years, much less last year.

"Shimano and Campagnolo is junk? Damn right!!! In over 26 years of hammering equipment, MTB, CX and Road, in NYC (including being hit by cabs, playing footsie with distracted NY drivers, dancing with NYC Buses, garbage trucks etc.), using one piece BMX cranks, I have never, ever had THAT happen. They can warranty effing air, I would not own Shimano or Campagnolo!!! Period! Sorry for the rant, but what happend to these crank arms is unacceptable!! Eff You Cee Kay Shimano and Campagnolo!!! Before using Shimano and Campy, I'll walk first."

Nice editing, Kontact. Were all of those failures in your pics, "6 miles into a ride"?
Of course not. Does the distance into the ride matter when the part is defective? :confused:

But I do have the advantage of working in a bike store that sells lot's of Rival and Red equipped bikes - I haven't seen all that many SRAM failures at all, and none of the kind you mention.

I'm sorry you've had bad luck with your SRAM stuff. We had a customer who returned an entire Campy Record group this summer after a series of frustrations - he could write a diatribe like yours if he wanted to. None of this stuff is perfect.

[binxnyrwarrsoul]

Not my SRAM stuff, its's FastVegan's.

[oldpotatoe]

Of course not. Does the distance into the ride matter when the part is defective? :confused:

But I do have the advantage of working in a bike store that sells lot's of Rival and Red equipped bikes - I haven't seen all that many SRAM failures at all, and none of the kind you mention.

I'm sorry you've had bad luck with your SRAM stuff. We had a customer who returned an entire Campy Record group this summer after a series of frustrations - he could write a diatribe like yours if he wanted to. None of this stuff is perfect.

2 dozen sram levers, 3 rear ders, 2 cranks, 1/2 dozen BBs, PF BB30...and I don't even sell bikes with the stuff. maybe the word is out I'll call sram..lotsa bike shops won't if they didn't buy the stuff there.

Returned RECORD, I'd love to hear of the frustrations..seems to work more consistently than sram by far, same when compared to 7900/6700/5700.

[Kontact]

2 dozen sram levers, 3 rear ders, 2 cranks, 1/2 dozen BBs, PF BB30...and I don't even sell bikes with the stuff. maybe the word is out I'll call sram..lotsa bike shops won't if they didn't buy the stuff there.

Returned RECORD, I'd love to hear of the frustrations..seems to work more consistently than sram by far, same when compared to 7900/6700/5700.
Hey, I'm not being a SRAM apologist. I'm just trying to bring a little perspective to this - all the companies make stuff that fails.

Is SRAM the worst of the three? Maybe. I don't have any stats either way, I just know what we sell and service, and it hasn't been bad for us at all. If you are getting different results, that's worth sharing.



The Record group had finicky rear shifting (something I've seen on several Campy 11 bikes) and chain suck on the large ring, with related shifting problems.

[ridemoreoften]

Anyone ever have this happen with Campy? I doubt it.............

[Kontact]

Anyone ever have this happen with Campy? I doubt it.............
Did you see the pictures I posted?

[tsarpepe]

Posting pictures doesn't convince if we don't know the history behind the failures. The thing is: we have here a forum with thousands of riders, and I don't recall anyone ever report a catastrophic failure on a Dura Ace or Record part. And no, someone's "finicky shifting" does not fall in the same category.

[Kontact]

Posting pictures doesn't convince if we don't know the history behind the failures. The thing is: we have here a forum with thousands of riders, and I don't recall anyone ever report a catastrophic failure on a Dura Ace or Record part. And no, someone's "finicky shifting" does not fall in the same category.
Luckily, the search feature will recall for you:
http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=88527&highlight=dura+failure

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=78588&highlight=campagnolo+failure

I didn't spend a long time looking, though.

[uber]

SRAM has taken a bit of a beating recently. When my Zipp cranks failed, SRAM customer service stepped up and went the distance to make it right. They stepped up to the plate when I had an issue with Zipp wheels. My LBS shares the view that no one offers better customer service. I love Campy, but the SRAM stuff works just fine. Can't imagine better customer service from anyone.

[zuzu27]

I've been an aggressive rider off-road and on-road since 1991 and I've never experienced a single failure with Shimano XT or XTR components, Campy Record or Dura Ace on the road.

This is also coming from someone who was a 170 lbs. sprinter in my racing days and is now a 250 lbs., fat-ass-want-to-be, in my old-man-parenting days.

I tried Crank Brothers pedals on my son's mountain bike and they lasted 2 months....they weren't smooth at all...tons of drag.....had to send them back to be rebuilt and they still weren't smooth. Total garbage.

I still have a pair of Shimano M747 pedals on my Yo Eddy and another pair on my wife's old Litespeed Obed, and they're still smooth and work perfectly.

[CunegoFan]

Instead of having a company that "warrantied everything" I'd rather have a company that built things that did not need to be replaced on warranty, because they were designed and built such that they did not have that sort of catastrophic failure.


This. What is ironic about it is that it is actually advantageous to them for their stuff to fail. They replace it no questions asked and get a good rep for customer service. Keeping that in mind, they can build their stuff flimsier and thus lighter, which has addtional business benefits.

[dave thompson]

This. What is ironic about it is that it is actually advantageous to them for their stuff to fail. They replace it no questions asked and get a good rep for customer service. Keeping that in mind, they can build their stuff flimsier and thus lighter, which has addtional business benefits.

I think this is false logic. It costs far more to fund customer service/warranty than it to build something correctly. In addition, regardless of how well the company's customer service and warranty is, the company will have a worse reputation for building things that fail than for good service. As an example consider the overall content of his thread: good warranty but their stuff fails too much.

[ClutchCargo]

are about equally represented in the pro ranks, as far as I can tell.
If SRAM were really so unreliable, why would any pro team use the stuff?

[Black Dog]

are about equally represented in the pro ranks, as far as I can tell.
If SRAM were really so unreliable, why would any pro team use the stuff?

No fair...this is a loaded question and forum bait. Who is going to bite?

[christian]

are about equally represented in the pro ranks, as far as I can tell.
If SRAM were really so unreliable, why would any pro team use the stuff?
Because they're paid to use it. When I was racing cars, we once switched from a very good provider of auxiliary lights to a pretty mediocre provider of auxiliary lights. Because the team got a big check to make that switch, and the new lights were good enough.

[ClutchCargo]

Because they're paid to use it. When I was racing cars, we once switched from a very good provider of auxiliary lights to a pretty mediocre provider of auxiliary lights. Because the team got a big check to make that switch, and the new lights were good enough.

I hear ya. But 'paid' to use 'em, or supplied for free? In any event, the Quick Step and Cannondale teams are big and successful enough to avoid having to use sketchy parts just because there's a few more shekls in it, don't you think?

[torquer]

"Good enough" seems to be SRAM's motto, but so what? If their chains & cassettes get the job done (those are their only products I've used), I'll take the savings and live with the noise.

"It costs far more to fund customer service/warranty than it to build something correctly." It would for Boeing, say, but for mid- to high-end bike parts, how many of those parts are really stressed to the max? If most of their parts go to OEMs, and those bikes are used for JRA, the few amateur racers who abuse them past their design limits ain't gonna make a difference.

About the pro ranks, I'd guess 99% of mechanicals are the fault of the mechanics, not whose stuff the teams get from sponsors. Components make up such a small part of a pro team's budget that none would risk losing a race just because SRAM (or anyone else) offered them an inferior, but free, product.
(Wheels and tires may be an exception here.)

[oldpotatoe]

are about equally represented in the pro ranks, as far as I can tell.
If SRAM were really so unreliable, why would any pro team use the stuff?

All about the money and at least 2 teams, after offered a sram sponsorship, declined and purchased shimano-Garmin and BMC.

According to a list I saw on Cyclingnews, there are actually more teams sponsored by Campagnolo than sram and shimano has stepped up hugely.

shimano has stepped up after sram did a number on their OE sales(mostly road) and shimano didn't like it. WHY there are more teams sponsored this year than last, why shimano sponsored the cross worlds in KY, as an example.

[oldpotatoe]

I hear ya. But 'paid' to use 'em, or supplied for free? In any event, the Quick Step and Cannondale teams are big and successful enough to avoid having to use sketchy parts just because there's a few more shekls in it, don't you think?

Why do team mechanics on sram sponsored teams get paid more than others?

[christian]

I hear ya. But 'paid' to use 'em, or supplied for free? In any event, the Quick Step and Cannondale teams are big and successful enough to avoid having to use sketchy parts just because there's a few more shekls in it, don't you think?

No. First off - paid; the bike manufacturers supply probably 40+ framesets and pay hundreds of thousands of Euros. The component manufacturers come on board and pay a portion to retain OEM relationships or pay separately.

Also, if you look at OPQS, Lefevere isn't a rich dilettante -- he's a guy who makes a living ensuring that the sponsor payments cover all the costs plus salaries every year. If he's going to be 100k in the black vs 100k in the red, they'd ride Microshift.

It's business. I know guys who've been running profitable car racing teams for years - but it's a game with high variable costs and few guarantees. Extra money is extra money and you get while the getting is good.

Edit: this is not to say SRAM is good, bad, or indifferent. I've never ridden it. Just making the point that a 10% functional difference might not be the key determinant in what a team rides.

[slidey]

You used to race cars?? Fantastico...could you elaborate, please.

...When I was racing cars,...

[Jaq]

He raced cars on his bike. Him on his bike, obviously; not the cars.

p.s. Didn't Alain Prost become something of a noted cyclist after his Formula 1 days?

[christian]

I used to co-drive rally cars in the Rally America and Production-WRC series.

[christian]

p.s. Didn't Alain Prost become something of a noted cyclist after his Formula 1 days?He did. Carl Edwards is also an unbelievably strong cyclist.

[happycampyer]

christian, this one still blows me away.

Travis Pastrana rally car crash (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3SsGxUogUQ)

"Get out, get a triangle out"? Are you kidding me?

[slidey]

Sweet!! You must've checked this out I'm estimating...but couldn't resist myself anyway: http://youtu.be/3IZO5OBcn3A

In the off chance you haven't its S19E1.

I used to co-drive rally cars in the Rally America and Production-WRC series.

[ClutchCargo]

No. First off - paid; the bike manufacturers supply probably 40+ framesets and pay hundreds of thousands of Euros.

Edit: this is not to say SRAM is good, bad, or indifferent. I've never ridden it. Just making the point that a 10% functional difference might not be the key determinant in what a team rides.

My point is only that the team wouldn't use equipment that they thought would compromise its results. And if SRAM were as bad as some folks are saying, it would carry the risk of compromising results. Of course, some owners of sports teams are in it for the results, and some not so much. And I have no doubt that Shimano are throwing more euros at these teams than Campag and SRAM combined.

[CunegoFan]

My point is only that the team wouldn't use equipment that they thought would compromise its results. And if SRAM were as bad as some folks are saying, it would carry the risk of compromising results. Of course, some owners of sports teams are in it for the results, and some not so much. And I have no doubt that Shimano are throwing more euros at these teams than Campag and SRAM combined.

Ask Andy Schleck about SRAM. :D

The pro teams can replace components at a rate far greater than recreational cyclists. There could be a component that is a total piece of crap but the pros replace often enough that it does not affect them. Case in point, John Tomac's Tioga disk wheel.

[Jaq]

Ask Andy Schleck about SRAM. :D

The pro teams can replace components at a rate far greater than recreational cyclists. There could be a component that is a total piece of crap but the pros replace often enough that it does not affect them. Case in point, John Tomac's Tioga disk wheel.

Yeah, I often wonder what the maintenance costs on a race-bike - or a team's bikes - would run in LBS terms. If a part looks just a little funny, it gets swapped for something perfect. It seems like it'd be the equivalent of getting my high-end LBS's $$$ tune-up once a day - plus new parts. And worse, I don't even get to keep the old parts and throw 'em on a beater or put 'em up on the classifieds and recoup any kind of cost. They wind up on the wrench's race bike, or his wife's, or their ebay auction.

So in terms of labor and parts, what's it cost to run a bike in the Giro or the Tour? $1,000.00 per bike per day? Or is that way under?

[apeescape]

I've process warranties and seen defects from all 3 of the companies. The SRAM ones are far (like 100-200 to 1) more frequent than Shimano/Campy. They do have great customer service in that the will replace just about anything. Luckily the shop I work at doesn't carry many SRAM bikes at all. Mostly Shimano and a few bikes with campy (Mine included :)) The only SRAM stuff I would trust is the MTB drivetrain stuff. Not a big fan of Avid brakes at all after a brand new elixir 9 failed in the parking lot because the bolt connecting the banjo to the caliper was over-torqued and stripped from the factory causing the caliper to separate and lose all seals and fluid under hard braking. Most people buy SRAM because its "lighter" (whatever you gain by low weight you lose in efficiency because its all flexy ) and cheaper. If you want something that works great out of the box and is reliable/ cost effective go Shimano. If you want something that will be more serviceable, last longer, shift smoother and look better go Campy :cool:

[oldpotatoe]

I've process warranties and seen defects from all 3 of the companies. The SRAM ones are far (like 100-200 to 1) more frequent than Shimano/Campy. They do have great customer service in that the will replace just about anything. Luckily the shop I work at doesn't carry many SRAM bikes at all. Mostly Shimano and a few bikes with campy (Mine included :)) The only SRAM stuff I would trust is the MTB drivetrain stuff. Not a big fan of Avid brakes at all after a brand new elixir 9 failed in the parking lot because the bolt connecting the banjo to the caliper was over-torqued and stripped from the factory causing the caliper to separate and lose all seals and fluid under hard braking. Most people buy SRAM because its "lighter" (whatever you gain by low weight you lose in efficiency because its all flexy ) and cheaper. If you want something that works great out of the box and is reliable/ cost effective go Shimano. If you want something that will be more serviceable, last longer, shift smoother and look better go Campy :cool:

What he said,very similar tyo what I see(altho I don't sell sram road groups on bikes at all). In spite of what one other bike shop guy said about 'never saw a sram failure/warranty issue with our sram equipped bikes-Kontact-what happened to him?), I have seen many as well(2 dozen + levers++).

BTW- recently had another broken shifter and for the first time, they asked for serial number on the back and said unless the gent could prove it was less than 2 years old, no warranty, so no warranty. maybe the 'warranty anything' gig is proving to be too expensive. Redesigning better 'stuff' is too.

sram is spending a lot in catchup football these days. 11s is almost inevitable fr them(making the 'new Red obsolete), electronic is rumored..they are seen as the third group maker 'out' right now and are spending the $ to catch up, IMHO.

I even heard a 1 by 11s, hydro brake, electronic road group..yikes, I guess if ya can't make the FD work, remove it.