HED Belgium and Velocity A23 rims?

[sc53]

Has anyone ridden wheels built with either of these rims? They are wider than typical (23mm instead of 19mm) and I was thinking they might make good wheels for the 25-32c tires I like to ride on my various bikes. But I have never seen either rim in action on a set of wheels and wondered if they have a good, bad or unknown reputation? As for hubs--White Industries? DT Swiss Classic? Ultegra? I ride Shimano/SRAM.

[Nooch]

I purchased a set of A23's with a powertap, and unfortunately the rear wheel had a hop in it from previous damage. After riding it for a while I nailed a pothole close to the original hop and just made it worse. Now, I don't know the nature of the build, how well they were built, or anything, but I like the rims.

I have plans of rebuilding my set into another set of a23's, and also building up a second set with DT 350 hubs, down the line. I like the ride they provide, using 700x24 Open Pave's. With more volume in the tire they soak up more of the road than say, my Open Pro's with Ultegra hubs and the same tires..

[peanutgallery]

saving my sheckles for a set. better for the tire to mount without a crazy weight penalty. went that route on the mtb and could not be happier

here is something near you, OK guy

http://www.novemberbicycles.com/fsw-23/

[astaft]

I built up a set of Hed C2 w/campy hubs 32hole for cyclocross and early season rides. I really like running the Vittoria Pave tubies on them during early spring due to all the sand rough roads here in Wisconsin. I eyeball compared the Hed and Velocitys and the quality seemed a bit better on the Heds.

Andrew

[Dave Wages]

I've built up a set of both the A23's and the HED C2 (or Belgiums) and I my opinion is that the HED's build up straighter and nicer, but to be honest I haven't had a problem with either set. The A23's were a tad lighter, although neither one really nailed their claimed weight, but both are nice rims.

Hope that's helpful?

Cheers,
Dave

[JayBay]

I just finished building a set of A23's, and they came together very nicely. I haven't ridden them yet but I'm excited to try them out.

[teleguy57]

What Dave said. I've built up both 32x32, Sapim Comps 3x. I like the Heds better (slightly easier build, better aesthetics) but they are more expensive. If I didn't know about the Heds I'd be very happy with the A23s.

[rjfr]

I built a set of C2s with 32 hole, radial front, 2x/3x rear.

After summer and autumn, no need for re-truing or touch up. Very strong and stable. The profile catches the cross wind a bit, but no complaints. I've used Schwalbe ZX and Vittoria open Pave without trouble.

[FlashUNC]

Built up a pair of C2 clincher rims this year. Thought initially the whole wider rim thing was marketing BS, but its the real deal. Tire rolls a bit nicer, and its a sturdy wheel, haven't had it touched up at all despite a lot of riding on crappy Charlotte roads.

Highly recommended.

[echelon_john]

I build a lot of wheels with both the HEDs and the A23s. The above descriptions pretty much nail it; the HEDs are a bit better in finish quality, but the A23s are usually about 40g lighter and about half the price. Usually I steer people who just want wider rims into the A23; you can't beat those on Velocity hubs with nice spokes for value.

Most of the 'quality' difference between the two are things I notice when building the wheel, but would never notice riding.

Finally, the A23s come in a bunch of colors now, which some people like. HEDs come in any color you want, as long as it's black with a machined sidewall.

Hope this helps.
JC

[tannhauser]

QC at HED is higher. More volume is good, then diminishing returns. 23mm rims max out 23mm tire volume.

[DRietz]

I've got a set of custom A23's on their way to my door step from the Velocity USA factory in Grand Rapids.

I'll be posting a series of reviews and write ups on them, and will do my best to describe them accurately so that I can help others make their decision as well as help my sponsor make adjustments to what they're putting out on the market.

I have high hopes for this wheelset, otherwise I wouldn't have sold my Mavic Classics to get it. One element I'm already fond of is that Velocity recently moved all their manufacturing to the US.

I'm thinking of picking up some really nice cotton casing Vittorias to mount on these guys along with some of the light Vredestein latex tubes for a very tubular feel.

[miguel]

what's custom about them?

[DRietz]

Well, nothing, really, except I had them laced with red nipples.

:banana:

[Bruce K]

All my bikes except one have HED C2 rims. Road, Cyclocross, TT.

Excellent ride qualities and durability.

2 more sets inbound next week. One clincher for road and one tubular for cyclocross.

BK

[djdj]

I have the Velocity A23 "Pro build" factory wheelset. I really like them. The wider rim provides better cornering grip, they're relatively light, they're stiff enough for my 150 pounds and, of course, they're "Pro." :)

[eddief]

second set down the page. not a racer, but have been riding these for about 1000 miles and so far bulletproof. one red nip on each wheel and those crappy Ultremo r.1 x 25 tires:).

http://pdxwheels.wordpress.com/

[CNY rider]

My Goodrich has the next size wider Velocity rim up from the A 23. Can't remember the name and too lazy to go look. I got them from Peter White and the build, with WI hubs, was per his recommendation.
Those wheels, with Grand Bois 700X28 are the smoothest thing I have ever ridden.
I say go for it.

[DRietz]

Sounds like you'd be talking about a mountain clincher. The normal Blunt is 28mm wide.

[blschaefer1]

I've got a set of C2 Belgiums built on DT240 hubs. Right about 1500 grams for the set. I've run 25mm's on them in the past at about 85psi and the ride was like glass. My favorite clincher to date.

[staggerwing]

My Goodrich has the next size wider Velocity rim up from the A 23. Can't remember the name and too lazy to go look. I got them from Peter White and the build, with WI hubs, was per his recommendation.
Those wheels, with Grand Bois 700X28 are the smoothest thing I have ever ridden.
I say go for it.

Likely Velocity Dyads. The Dyad is 24mm wide, versus 23mm for the A23, and about 60 grams heavier. I agree with Mr. White, a terrific rim for everyday use.

Looks snazzy in silver, with the decals removed. Thought I read somewhere that the A23 would be available in all silver, but haven't seen it at my normal locations. Would love to fine a couple all silver pair in 28/32 drilling.

[eddief]

http://www.retro-gression.com/product/velocity-a23-rims

[staggerwing]

Thanks for that.

The guy that runs that outfit posts over on bikeforums.net. Reasonable prices too.

[thinpin]

I have both A23 on WI hubs 3x 32 spokes and a set of HED ardennes. Both are wonderful wheelsets. I like the tyre profiles and the 25s sit really well and make for a great ride on rough roads. Cornering seems more fluid. As for which pair are "best" I couldn't say. The A23s feel and sound more solid if that makes sense. But I suspect that is because of the hubs.

[DRietz]

Likely Velocity Dyads. The Dyad is 24mm wide, versus 23mm for the A23, and about 60 grams heavier. I agree with Mr. White, a terrific rim for everyday use.

Looks snazzy in silver, with the decals removed. Thought I read somewhere that the A23 would be available in all silver, but haven't seen it at my normal locations. Would love to fine a couple all silver pair in 28/32 drilling.

Just wait until Tuesday.

Come on, UPS!

[vqdriver]

i'm digging my a23 wheels. no complaints but i think my next set of wheels will have H plus son tb14 rims. they're so purrty.

[don compton]

Velocity now has silver A23's.

[rwsaunders]

Where have you folks been buying your 23mm wheels?

[eddief]

pdx wheels in Portland as shown in the photos above.

When I was looking, these guys:

http://www.bikemania.biz/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=VeloCity_whls_road_ A23

seemed to have about the best price on A23 wheels with Velocity hubs and spokes of your choice depending on pro or comp build.

And now they are offering custom built sets with your choice of rim color too.



Where have you folks been buying your 23mm wheels?

[Idris Icabod]

How do you guys deal with switching between 19 mm and the 23 mm rims? Do you adjust the brakes if you switch wheels or can you have a gap between rim and pads that accomodates both wheel widths?

[wooly]

How do you guys deal with switching between 19 mm and the 23 mm rims? Do you adjust the brakes if you switch wheels or can you have a gap between rim and pads that accomodates both wheel widths?

Just a few twists of the barrel adjuster on the brakes is enough to compensate for the width difference

[fatallightning]

QC at HED is higher. More volume is good, then diminishing returns. 23mm rims max out 23mm tire volume.
Expound on that?

[eddief]

and about 5 seconds you can either pull more or let out the right amount of brake cable.


How do you guys deal with switching between 19 mm and the 23 mm rims? Do you adjust the brakes if you switch wheels or can you have a gap between rim and pads that accomodates both wheel widths?

[tannhauser]

Expound on that?

23mm rims optimize the contact patch for 23mm tires, making it shorter and fatter as well as increasing the volume.

Once you go larger, I'm not sure there is as large a benefit to the wide rim. No one has done studies, as far as I'm aware, of these cases.

Having said that there are mtbs rims mfgs. that have adopted the 23mm or larger standard, to put more meat on the sides of the tire. Understandable.

What's in question is if there is a point of diminishing returns on a road bike with increasingly larger tires in the 23mm standard. At some point it isn't significantly "better" than a 19mm rim or may be worse if the contact patch for straight-line riding is large. Worse in the sense of speed/friction.

Bottom line is I think you'll get a smoother ride with the wider rim.

[pavel]

I think another way to say that is that at the 23mm mark, you maximize the "clinchular" benefit because it's at this combination that you get the "tubular ride quality" out of this rim. I've heard many people rave about a 23mm rim with 25mm vittoria open corsa evos as still being close to this ideal.


By the 'clinchular' logic, a 19mm wide rim like an open pro will work ideally with a 19mm tire. I have no idea what a 19/19 combination rides like in an ideal world where roads are as smooth as glass, but I know a 19/20 combination feels terrible on real roads. And at 19/23, you're just riding a regular old clincher, right?

just intuiting from that, my guess is that your 'clinchular' becomes a regular clincher somewhere around the 26-27 mark, but of course, you still have the benefit of being able to easily run bigger tires.

[stephenmarklay]

i'm digging my a23 wheels. no complaints but i think my next set of wheels will have H plus son tb14 rims. they're so purrty.

Anyone building with these? I also think they are eye candy.

I am going to try the HED C2 on my new RB-1 build. Not sure about he hubs but I may stick with a DA. Need to find a good price on them and then pull the trigger.

I am also thinking 28f and 32r for my 180lbs of raw man :) Is the 28h pushing it? I would like to go with a aerolite spoke or the like.

[oldpotatoe]

Has anyone ridden wheels built with either of these rims? They are wider than typical (23mm instead of 19mm) and I was thinking they might make good wheels for the 25-32c tires I like to ride on my various bikes. But I have never seen either rim in action on a set of wheels and wondered if they have a good, bad or unknown reputation? As for hubs--White Industries? DT Swiss Classic? Ultegra? I ride Shimano/SRAM.

Built a few A-23 and HED..very similar to the HED at less $.

They build well, ride well altho not the 'ahhhhhhh' feeling some would imply by being 3 mm wider.

For hubs, hard to beat Ultegra or even 5700(105). Well made, very serviceable and not expensive.

Others hubs mentioned MUCH more expensive, for not a lot(no?) of performance advantage.

NOTE-Some brakes may not open far enough for wider rims so......

[oldpotatoe]

pdx wheels in Portland as shown in the photos above.

When I was looking, these guys:

http://www.bikemania.biz/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=VeloCity_whls_road_ A23

seemed to have about the best price on A23 wheels with Velocity hubs and spokes of your choice depending on pro or comp build.

And now they are offering custom built sets with your choice of rim color too.

'Bout what ay bike shop would sell them at if they build wheels...

[eddief]

i am at 192 and my set is 24 front, 28 rear. i think that might be on the edge.

Anyone building with these? I also think they are eye candy.

I am going to try the HED C2 on my new RB-1 build. Not sure about he hubs but I may stick with a DA. Need to find a good price on them and then pull the trigger.

I am also thinking 28f and 32r for my 180lbs of raw man :) Is the 28h pushing it? I would like to go with a aerolite spoke or the like.

[oldpotatoe]

Anyone building with these? I also think they are eye candy.

I am going to try the HED C2 on my new RB-1 build. Not sure about he hubs but I may stick with a DA. Need to find a good price on them and then pull the trigger.

I am also thinking 28f and 32r for my 180lbs of raw man :) Is the 28h pushing it? I would like to go with a aerolite spoke or the like.

4 spokes weigh 28 grams, BUT a 32h wheel is much stronger.

I would do thin spokes front for you and if you ride 'light', LH rear but not RH rear for a 180 pound rider. PLUS thin spokes save so little in terms of weight, provide no real performance advantage, cost more and are less reliable.

I guess some can ride them but a 24/28, light rim, thin spokes for riders approaching .1 offa ton, don't get it.

[njgustafson]

HED C2s are nice, but the sidewalls wear pretty quickly. If you're in general looking for 23mm wide rims, the H Plus Son TB14s are goddamn awesome. There's also the H Plus Son Archetype, although I don't think they're available yet.

[eddief]

but if the overall objective is a lighter weight bike, then all the grams add up. i have a 22 lb bike and 17.5 bike. the light one got that way by a whole bunch of different parts being lighter than their counterparts.

the difference between 32 hole Pros on Ultegra hubs vs my A23 set is right around 450 grams.

for my average 50 mile club ride, i would almost always choose the light one. it is not cause it looks cool, but because i believe it is just significantly more fun to ride...and no broke wheels yet.


4 spokes weigh 28 grams, BUT a 32h wheel is much stronger.

I would do thin spokes front for you and if you ride 'light', LH rear but not RH rear for a 180 pound rider. PLUS thin spokes save so little in terms of weight, provide no real performance advantage, cost more and are less reliable.

I guess some can ride them but a 24/28, light rim, thin spokes for riders approaching .1 offa ton, don't get it.

[tannhauser]

I think another way to say that is that at the 23mm mark, you maximize the "clinchular" benefit because it's at this combination that you get the "tubular ride quality" out of this rim. I've heard many people rave about a 23mm rim with 25mm vittoria open corsa evos as still being close to this ideal.


By the 'clinchular' logic, a 19mm wide rim like an open pro will work ideally with a 19mm tire. I have no idea what a 19/19 combination rides like in an ideal world where roads are as smooth as glass, but I know a 19/20 combination feels terrible on real roads. And at 19/23, you're just riding a regular old clincher, right?

just intuiting from that, my guess is that your 'clinchular' becomes a regular clincher somewhere around the 26-27 mark, but of course, you still have the benefit of being able to easily run bigger tires.

I think you just said exactly what I said.

[DRietz]

4 spokes weigh 28 grams, BUT a 32h wheel is much stronger.

I would do thin spokes front for you and if you ride 'light', LH rear but not RH rear for a 180 pound rider. PLUS thin spokes save so little in terms of weight, provide no real performance advantage, cost more and are less reliable.

I guess some can ride them but a 24/28, light rim, thin spokes for riders approaching .1 offa ton, don't get it.

Expanding on the bolded section here - I have to say that lacing a 32hole wheel with aerolites makes very little sense. I mean, there are so many spokes there that in a sprint you'll hit what I call an "aero block" before those semi-bladed spokes can even help. And, with more spokes, comes more surface area - for a guy like me, that means getting blown around a bit.

My advice? Lace the front with DT Rev's (1.8/1.5), the non-drive with DT Rev's (2.0/1.5) and the drive side with DT Comp's (2.0/1.8).

Brass nipples all around.

[Joachim]

My advice? Lace the front with DT Rev's (1.8/1.5), the non-drive with DT Rev's (2.0/1.5) and the drive side with DT Comp's (2.0/1.8).

Brass nipples all around.

Thats the same as my racing alloy tubulars (by Vecchio's). 28h front and rear. 3x, but my racing weight is around 162. For everyday wheels I prefer all DT Comps on the rear.

[DRietz]

My road race wheelset is 28h front and rear, 1.8/1.5 Revs all the way around.

Came out to like 1253 grams when all was said and done.

My race weight is a hair over 120. :o

[oldpotatoe]

Expanding on the bolded section here - I have to say that lacing a 32hole wheel with aerolites makes very little sense. I mean, there are so many spokes there that in a sprint you'll hit what I call an "aero block" before those semi-bladed spokes can even help. And, with more spokes, comes more surface area - for a guy like me, that means getting blown around a bit.

My advice? Lace the front with DT Rev's (1.8/1.5), the non-drive with DT Rev's (2.0/1.5) and the drive side with DT Comp's (2.0/1.8).

Brass nipples all around.

True bladed spokes(notch hub please) offer some significant aero advantage, oval spokes, like Sapim CX-ray and DT aerolites aren't very aero, only slightly more so than the Revs mentioned, with short buts and 1.5mm diameter. BUT my point is they are thin spokes and don't provide the reliability of Comps plus not very aero and...lotz more expensive so their utility to me is questionable, IMHO.

Aerolites are .9mm thick, Revs 1.5mm. I think CX-rays are also .9mm

[harro]

Why no kinlins?

[mandasol]

i'm digging my a23 wheels. no complaints but i think my next set of wheels will have H plus son tb14 rims. they're so purrty.


Same here, I like the A23's a lot but I think the H+Son's are HAAAWWWT, so I had a set built up and I can't stop drooling over them. Instead of hijacking this thread I posted some picks over here:

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?p=1068938#post1068938

[fatallightning]

That paint and hard ano finish sing together. If I could get lower spoke count tb14s, I'd be all up in dat bidness.

[sc53]

I just ordered a pair of the Hed Belgium rims from a place called ModernBike.com. They were on sale for $100, I ordered 28 spoke count, and shipping is free! I hope this place comes through, they promise delivery from Iowa to me in VA in 3 days. My LBS told me to order the rims myself as they can't get any discount on them from HED, and they will do the build. Still have to decide on hubs and spoke and nips COLOR! [yes I am that shallow]

[thwart]

I hope this place comes through, they promise delivery from Iowa to me in VA in 3 days. I dunno... Iowa is well-known for its many scam artists... a veritable den of thieves. :D

[don compton]

Same here, I like the A23's a lot but I think the H+Son's are HAAAWWWT, so I had a set built up and I can't stop drooling over them. Instead of hijacking this thread I posted some picks over here:

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?p=1068938#post1068938
I have both A23's and Heds and like both. Are the H+Sons similar in weight?
Don

[Bruce K]

A very large box arrived this afternoon containing some of the coolest HED wheels I have ever bought.

It was actually 2 boxes taped together.

Box #1: HED Ardennes SL clincher road wheels. Cool carbon front hub. Very slick shiny, polished rear hub. BlackCXray spokes. And the rear hub is pretty quiet to boot!

Box #2 HED Ardennes LT tubular wheels for my cyclocross bike. 18 spoke front, 24 spoke rear (their stallion build for off-road durability). Very slick.

Now I just have to choose tubular cross tires (probably Dugast Typhoons)

I am always impressed by HED's stuff (see signature line)

BK

[stephenmarklay]

My road race wheelset is 28h front and rear, 1.8/1.5 Revs all the way around.

Came out to like 1253 grams when all was said and done.

My race weight is a hair over 120. :o

Dude your buff :)

[stephenmarklay]

Same here, I like the A23's a lot but I think the H+Son's are HAAAWWWT, so I had a set built up and I can't stop drooling over them. Instead of hijacking this thread I posted some picks over here:

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?p=1068938#post1068938


They sure are great looking. Since they are anodized after machining how will that look after running them a bit? I never liked that look of half worn anodized brake track.

[don compton]

They sure are great looking. Since they are anodized after machining how will that look after running them a bit? I never liked that look of half worn anodized brake track.
In the eighties I had a set of Campy XL Delta clincher rims. They were a box rim and slightly wider than then the current popular rims ( mavic ). They were very light and rode great.

[DRietz]

Dude your buff :)

Oh yeah. That really skinny type of buff. :rolleyes:

[dziehr]

Box #2 HED Ardennes LT tubular wheels for my cyclocross bike. 18 spoke front, 24 spoke rear (their stallion build for off-road durability).

I have a set of the LT stallion build on order. The stallion build is 20/28 (straight pull/radial 20 front with the carbon front hub, 28 rear). 18/24 is the standard lacing. However, the Ardennes CL come laced 24/28 (flanged front hub).

[Grant McLean]

How do you guys deal with switching between 19 mm and the 23 mm rims? Do you adjust the brakes if you switch wheels or can you have a gap between rim and pads that accomodates both wheel widths?

I wouldn't say 19mm is a standard width, some rims are 20.5mm wide,
like the shimano wheelsets, campagnolo, and fulcrum wheels.
that reduces the difference. A combination of barrel adjuster
and QR adjustment should take care of the difference for most
combinations.

g

[54ny77]

Regarding A23's, is a 700x23 or x25 tire better (in terms of comfort)? Or is it at the margin since, as one poster said, the A23 is supposed to make an x23 tire squish out really wide??

[dave thompson]

Regarding A23's, is a 700x23 or x25 tire better (in terms of comfort)? Or is it at the margin since, as one poster said, the A23 is supposed to make an x23 tire squish out really wide??
The 25 tires will be better, if the tires will fit on the bike. Depending on the specific tire, it can measure 2~3MM wider when fitted on the C2 and A23 rims.

[DRietz]

I just realized I never posted pictures of my wheels.

Here they are, albeit mounted on m' machine.

http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/1219/img1733e.jpg

[henry14]

that's where the Black CK headset went. Nice! How's it ride?

[DRietz]

that's where the Black CK headset went. Nice! How's it ride?

Indeed! Where'd that pink thing go?

The bike rides beautifully. Very smooth.

[cuda2k]

My new HED Belgiums:

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-ABRe6506tmg/TzSRvcesbuI/AAAAAAAAEuo/F89E4wQt3YM/s912/IMG_1019-1.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-8YskkSQddHs/TzSR2e8QHLI/AAAAAAAAEuw/PRHDRdw0GOQ/s800/IMG_1022-2.jpg

24/28h, 2x laced with CX-Ray's to White Industries hubs. I discussed with my wheel builder and did a lot of online research deciding between the A23 and HED rim. At the end of the day my conclusion was that while the A23 was a good rim, and often a little lighter than the HED, the C2 rim was just a better rim all around in terms of finish, braking surface and over all quality. These are going on my Kirk as my daily wheels, weighed in at bit under 1600g, which will be plenty light for my needs and my current weight.