Does anyone here ride helmet less?

[bobswire]

I admit I still occasionally ride helmet less when I know I'm going on "leisurely ride" or heading downtown on a errand.
It took me a long time to accept wearing helmet having been riding since the 70's.

[velotel]

What's a helmet?

[laupsi]

Never!

[Wilkinson4]

Admit I do as well but nowadays I almost always ride with one. If I am on a bike path, or maybe a dirt road somewhere sometimes I go without. But it is few and far between now.

mIKE

[tiretrax]

I never go anywhere without it. After Miranda Richardson died from a head injury sustained during a low speed fall, I will even wear when skiing, even though I started at 3 and never wore one (even when racing).

[leftsidedrive]

I wear one while I commute everyday and when I am "traveling" by bike. During the day I work at a bike shop, so I frequently step outside for a test ride around the block without one.

[Germany_chris]

The only time I wear one is when the MP's get red in face and threaten to impound my bike, or I'm riding on a new trail.

[jr59]

The Dutch don't wear them, and have far more people riding bikes than we do.

[bicycletricycle]

i do not wear a helmet.

[tele]

all the time now, started since I had kids. I think I wore a helmet skiing first and then riding.

[katematt]

I ride with a Dr. and he won't let me, but on a rare occasion solo, that is as long as the wife doesn't see me.

They are so light nowadays so seems silly not to. Not like my old Etto helmet from back in the 80's

[firerescuefin]

Helmet...always. Respect, but don't understand those that don't.

[forrestw]

I skip the helmet only when riding around campus, it's nice to not have to carry it around travelling between labs and meetings.

[biker72]

I always ride with a helmet.

[CaliFly]

all the time now, started since I had kids. I think I wore a helmet skiing first and then riding.

Same. The kids factor is too great for me not to wear a dome-saver. I didn't realize this was still a debate.

[witcombusa]

Most of the time, YES!

Group rides or mtb, it goes on.

[Grant McLean]

I usually wear a helmet when i'm in cycling clothes, guess it's part of the uniform.

Currently, i'm doing research for a university project on the motivators and
deterrents of cycling for transportation in urban centres. While i've always had
my own personal opinions on how 'safe' cycling is, talking to people who don't
ride, and doing in depth interviews with people who do, there is a major
disconnect between these groups and their perceptions of danger.

In my opinion, like it or not, helmet use contributes to the major deterrent that
keeps millions of people from ever considering riding a bicycle in the city -
they think they will be killed if they try it.

-g

[velotel]

Same. The kids factor is too great for me not to wear a dome-saver. I didn't realize this was still a debate.
It's not a debate; it was a question.

[AngryScientist]

I usually wear a helmet when i'm in cycling clothes, guess it's part of the uniform.



same here, if i've got bibs on, i've got a helmet on. riding to the train station, the coffee shop, or whatever errands, no lid.

[firerescuefin]

I usually wear a helmet when i'm in cycling clothes, guess it's part of the uniform.

Currently, i'm doing research for a university project on the motivators and
deterrents of cycling for transportation in urban centres. While i've always had
my own personal opinions on how 'safe' cycling is, talking to people who don't
ride, and doing in depth interviews with people who do, there is a major
disconnect between these groups and their perceptions of danger.

In my opinion, like it or not, helmet use contributes to the major deterrent that
keeps millions of people from ever considering riding a bicycle in the city -
they think they will be killed if they try it.

-g


Grant...when you're done with this, please post a link or send me a copy of this....if your willing. Interesting work.

[Germany_chris]

I wonder if this wouldn't be better as a poll, that would take the "debate" out of it..

[firerescuefin]

It's not a debate; it was a question.

agreed...interested in the responses, even those that don't support my CHOICE... but let's not turn this into a pissing contest.

[witcombusa]

Same. The kids factor is too great for me not to wear a dome-saver. I didn't realize this was still a debate.


It's not a debate at all. Wear it if you want and don't wear one if you don't.

:confused:

[William]

Wear one about 98 - 99% of the time. Occasionally don't. Reminds me of being a kid....since I never had one until I started racing.






William

[Eurorider]

I always wear one. Having said that, I recently went on a ride with a Balaclava on and 25 minutes into the ride noticed all the sudden that I wasn't wearing a helmet...Guess the balaclava "tricked" me into not noticing it earlier and "mimicked" the helmet feeling... Felt weird from that point on and couldn't enjoy the ride and therefore stopped at a friend's house to borrow his helmet to complete my ride...

[tiretrax]

They may be hard men (as Phil would say), but their heads aren't. It's tempting to not wear one when riding to the coffee shop just 3 blocks from my house, but I still put it on. Concrete is very hard!

[scottyjames]

Admit I do as well but nowadays I almost always ride with one. If I am on a bike path, or maybe a dirt road somewhere sometimes I go without. But it is few and far between now.

mIKE

I get a kick out of the cycling famblies on bike paths where the kids are all helmeted up but the parents are unprotected -- and often don't seem to possess the bike skills of their progeny.

During my shop days, by far the worst cycling mishap aftermaths I encountered were those that took place on the local semi-urban bike path: cyclist meets rollerblader, cyclist meets dog bounding out of the woods, cyclist meets cyclist head on, cyclist meets aggro-mommy with a double babyjogger, cyclist meets concrete pylon intended to keep the ATV's away. It was full-on carnage down there, where life could be nasty, brutish and short. Jah help you if you didn't have your noggin covered. Jah help you even if you did. I still make it a point to avoid well-trafficked bike paths. I'll take my chances on the highways and biways. Helmeted. Always.

[Grant McLean]

I always wear one. Having said that, I recently went on a ride with a Balaclava on and 25 minutes into the ride noticed all the sudden that I wasn't wearing a helmet...Guess the balaclava "tricked" me into not noticing it earlier and "mimicked" the helmet feeling... Felt weird from that point on and couldn't enjoy the ride and therefore stopped at a friend's house to borrow his helmet to complete my ride...

I have heard these stories before, I find them fascinating.

Our ideas of what is "safe" is a social construct (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_constructionism) not a reality based factual calculation.
We have to realize this, because people will always decide for themselves
how to behave based on their beliefs.

To clarify, what I mean is that "feeling safe" and "being safe" are two different
concepts. Calculations of risk can demonstrate a rational argument
that may have little meaning to someone who feels differently.

-g

[CaliFly]

It's not a debate; it was a question.

Sorry, no malice intended. Riders in my tiny corner of Southern California don't even ask the question. Lids go on.

Agreed that this is a choice, and I respect those who choose differently.

Should we now move on to seatbelts? :beer:

[leooooo]

Road riding, yes.
City riding, no.

[henry14]

99.9% of the time. If I'm test riding up and down the block after doing some tweaks on the bike, then no.

[fiamme red]

Road riding, yes.
City riding, no.Same for me. I'm more afraid of crashing at 30 mph on a downhill on a rural road than at 15 mph on the street.

But occasionally it occurs to me, as I'm riding up 10th Avenue in Manhattan during rush hour, mixing it up with buses and trucks, that my habit of not wearing a helmet in the city may not be so logical. On the other hand, if I'm run over by a truck, a helmet probably won't help me.

[MattTuck]

I always wear one. Since I volunteered, about 10 years ago, with a group that helps folks who have suffered traumatic brain injuries, I've been hyper aware of what even a simple knock on the head can do.

On the other hand, crashes/accidents happen so infrequently that if you wear one most of the time, you're atleast playing the odds.

Then again, do you buckle your seat belt 100% of the time (I do) even if it is a short drive? How would you feel if a pilot on a Boston to New York flight skipped some of the safety procedures because it was just a short flight....

At the end of the day, it's about your own risk tolerance and priorities. There's a phenomenon called 'risk homeostasis' in which people tend to make choices based on risk tolerance rather than specific behaviors. A famous experiment looked at two groups of taxi drivers. One group was given standard brakes, and the other group was given anti-lock brakes. The expectations were that the anti-lock group would have fewer accidents given the better performance of the ABS technology. Wrong! Both groups had similar rates of accidents. Why? Because the anti-lock group's behavior compensated for the safety advantages and they drove more aggressively, resulting in a risk level they were comfortable with before the experiment.

Same can be said for football pads. Do they make players safer or do they allow players to perform harder hits?

At the end of the day, the helmet is the insurance policy that will pay out at very low odds. But if it makes you feel safer or gives you more confidence when riding, more power to you.

[leooooo]

Same for me. I'm more afraid of crashing at 30 mph on a downhill on a rural road than at 15 mph on the street.

But occasionally it occurs to me, as I'm riding up 10th Avenue in Manhattan during rush hour, mixing it up with buses and trucks, that my habit of not wearing a helmet in the city may not be so logical. On the other hand, if I'm run over by a truck, a helmet probably won't help me.

Same reasoning here.

[thejen12]

I always wear a helmet, always wear a seat-belt. For me there is no upside to not wearing one, and I tend to avoid needless risk. The probability of needing a helmet is very low, but the impact of needing one and not having it can be extremely high, could even be the "ultimate" price.

We've had a couple of pedestrians around here die due to being knocked down and their head hitting the pavement, in accidents that could have just as easily happened to a cyclist if one had been in the same place and time.

So to me, speed and/or distance of the ride are not the only factors. One never knows when there could be an accident.

Jenn

[witcombusa]

He's ask if anyone rides WITHOUT a helmet.....not for all the reasons you do

[Jaq]

same here, if i've got bibs on, i've got a helmet on. riding to the train station, the coffee shop, or whatever errands, no lid.

Same here, though I'm not sure why this is. Wearing a helmet on my road bike is just second-nature. A couple years ago I thought I'd go for a ride without it, got a mile or so down the road....

...And found I'd put it on while pre-flighting the bike and my mind was on other things.

But riding to the bagel shop or to the gym on my kid's mountain bike, I don't wear a helmet.

It does tend to bother me a bit when I see people without helmets, though I'd never stop to say anything to them; it's their choice. And riding is all about freedom.

[tannhauser]

Sometimes.

*helmetless

[laupsi]

the kicker; experience a crash, get up off the ground w/out ever knowing you hit your head on the tarmac but for the cracked helmet.

this happened to me some 20 years ago, riding about 10 mph and slipped on some black ice and banged my lid on the curb. that helmet saved me and my family a lot of grief!

[54ny77]

http://www.brickshelf.com/gallery/richlug/TrainShow-March02/headless-cyclist.jpg

[christian]

Sure. BTW, you don't have to "admit" to riding helmetless. It's not a criminal offense.

[dekindy]

I have not ridden without a helmet since 1983 when coasting through a stop sign and turning left led to me riding over a curb and hitting my head on the sidewalk because I was monitoring traffic instead of watching where I was riding. Closest I have ever been to being knocked unconscious and I had a tender spot that occasionally throbbed for a year afterwards. This was in the Fall and I put the bike away for the Winter and my wife and I got helmets for Christmas.

[torquer]

same here, if i've got bibs on, i've got a helmet on. riding to the train station, the coffee shop, or whatever errands, no lid.
I suppose it depends on where you live, but for me, my commute to the train station, errands, etc., rates more protection, because I'll probably be the only bike on the road. I would rather be riding with an aggressive (but more visable) group of hammerheads without a helmet on than going solo, helmeted and sharing the road with some distracted idiot.

But I wear a helmet in both situations, anyway. And this is offered as a data point, not a debating point.

[FlashUNC]

Sometimes.

But I usually only do so in areas where cars are few and far between.

[thwart]

I've broken a helmet.

Always ride with.

Idiots ride around me in all sorts of vehicles... I'm all about improving my odds.

[ORMojo]

I used to ride without a helmet fairly regularly while on casual/errand/commuting rides.

Then this past October, while thankfully wearing a helmet, I went down on my bike for the very first time ever in my entire life. (Edit: Oops, my wife just reminded me that I did a face-plant off of my bike when I was 5 years old - required stitches and left a tiny faint scar in the middle of my forehead.)

I was suddenly cut off by another rider that ignored their stop sign as their urban bike path merged with mine. I had no choice but to go down fast with no chance to break my fall, and fell in such a way that the first impact was to my left rib cage hitting a high curb/barrier, and immediately afterward, my head bouncing off of the concrete. Two broken ribs (those hurt like &$*@^), but NO head injury.

Helmet has been on for every ride ever since. Even while at the vacation house at Sunriver over the holidays, where the combination of 37 miles of paved paths in 3,300 acres, with only about 1,500 residents in the off-season, makes for very solitary biking to the store. But all those squirrels, chipmunks, deer, etc. Going down for the first time changed my view of what that would be like, and while I have no fear of dying (but do fear the thought of debilitating brain injury), I really don't want to do that to my 2-year-old.

[jpw]

"Does anyone here ride helmet less?"

No, they're all dead.

[phoeve]

Life is short enough !

[pdmtong]

My older mtb helmet is now my city helmet

We've got road helmets, mtb helmets, downhill helmets, snowboard/ski helmets, windsurf helmets. helmet storage is an issue!

[laupsi]

to add, I see many small children riding w/helmets but the helmets are not properly mounted/fitted. very important for the helmet to cover the frontal lobe of the child, (...and for adults as well).

when I see this I shutter to think about the end result of an injury to the front of an unprotected child's head.

[pdmtong]

to add, I see many small children riding w/helmets but the helmets are not properly mounted/fitted. very important for the helmet to cover the frontal lobe of the child, (...and for adults as well).

when I see this I shutter to think about the end result of an injury to the front of an unprotected child's head.

even worse...the kids riding their bikes with the helmet dangling from the hbar....

[Bob Loblaw]

Never go without. Haven't since I got serious about riding.

USAC mandates helmets for all sanctioned events. Most organized rides require them, too. Since you gotta wear one in pretty much any organized event, makes sense to get used to it. That and it just might save your bacon.

BL

[akelman]

http://www.cbsnews.com/i/tim/2011/01/21/cheese_head_83054833_610x458.jpg

Um, it that ANSI approved, Thwart?

[goonster]

I get a kick out of the cycling famblies on bike paths where the kids are all helmeted up but the parents are unprotected
There may be a simple reason for this: here in PA, for example, children under 12 are required to wear a helmet by law.

[veggieburger]

The only time I might *not* wear a helmet is a winter MTB ride when it isn't icy. In such cases I'll wear some sort of fleece head covering, since I find the helmet vents cool my head down too much (even when I'm wearing a skull cap).

Otherwise, I always wear a helmet. :crap:

[Skenry]

I wear one ony when riding in an event or race that requires it. Otherwise I go free.

When I'm with the kids, I feel guilty that they have to wear them, so I have an old hairnet that I strap on.

Scott

[Bob Ross]

In my opinion, like it or not, helmet use contributes to the major deterrent that
keeps millions of people from ever considering riding a bicycle in the city -
they think they will be killed if they try it.

I was certain you were going to write "they think they will look like a dork if they try it"


Six years ago I gave my old Trek hybrid to my best friend. He lives in Brooklyn, wanted a bike to run errands and do short commutes in town, also wanted to get back into regular exercise to lose some weight and rehab an old knee injury. He actually approched me about getting a bike. I couldn't pass up an opportunity to be an enabler (in a good way) so I gave him the bike, with no strings attached...except one:

I told him he had to wear a helmet when he rode the bike, because I loved him and would never forgive myself if I found out he'd been injured on a bike I'd given him.

So six months later we're hanging out, he's talking about how wasted he is from some long walk from work, and I asked "I thought you were commuting on the bike?" He says, "No, I'm not riding at all, I can't bring myself to...I just can't get with the hat."

[bikerboy337]

so no... i dont ride helmetless... one split helmet years ago has me a firm believer... its not me im worried about, its the people on teh road/paths, etc that worry me...

and +1 to the kids... i've ingrained it in my son to wear a helment, so i always wear mine when cruising up and down the street with him...

[beercan]

i always hear this one from my friends
"what do you call someone who doesnt ride with a helmet" .....

an organ donor

then it makes me feel bad and i wear one

[jr59]

I hear all these posts, and I understand that it is your decission to wear one or not.

Yet the Dutch very rarely wear one, where are all the cycling deaths there?
Or really in Europe in general. Wearing a helmet is mostly a US thing. Brought on by bike shops and helmet companies. They make money by selling you a helmet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuBdf9jYj7o

How many helmets do you see in the Vid?

[Rueda Tropical]

For about 30 years I rode without one. Now that they are so light and well ventilated (and I found one big enough for my big head) there really isn't much downside to wearing one so I do.

[witcombusa]

i always hear this one from my friends
"what do you call someone who doesnt ride with a helmet" .....

an organ donor

then it makes me feel bad and i wear one

Or you could just tell them to kiss your ass......

[thwart]

http://www.cbsnews.com/i/tim/2011/01/21/cheese_head_83054833_610x458.jpg

Um, it that ANSI approved, Thwart?

Yikes. That's me.

Before the nose piercing.

[William]

I wear them all the time when....

[weiwentg]

I was suddenly cut off by another rider that ignored their stop sign as their urban bike path merged with mine. I had no choice but to go down fast with no chance to break my fall, and fell in such a way that the first impact was to my left rib cage hitting a high curb/barrier, and immediately afterward, my head bouncing off of the concrete. Two broken ribs (those hurt like &$*@^), but NO head injury.


OT, but more than once I've been cut off by another bike to my left at a 4-way, and more than once as a pedestrian, a cyclist has gone through a red light, cutting the peds off. either could result in an accident.

So, while I don't necessarily come to a full stop at stop signs, I will always look and yield to peds, bikes or cars. and I do stop at all red lights on the weekdays.

If someone takes me down that way, they better hope I break something, because if I can move, I will chase them down and make them regret it.

[Charles M]

This guy did...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/ed/Andrei_Kivilev.jpg/220px-Andrei_Kivilev.jpg

[velotel]

As I recall, the question was : Does anyone here ride helmet less? Seems only a very tiny % of the posts actually answered the question. Including mine when I think about it. Namely, what's a helmet? So to answer the question, yes, always without.

[BlackTiBob]

Last summer on a bike trip in Wisc we were coming up on a slower group and I was two bikes behind a lady approaching a small creek bridge. She hit a joint/seem at an angle and I watched her go down on her head in a millisecond. Her head/helmet bounced twice on the pavement and then her husband ran over her head/helmet. Result--some bruises. Result without a helmet---probably be eating thru a straw if she was lucky.

On a club ride, at a stop sign, the rider in front of me stomped down on his pedals while pulling on the bars. His stem snapped and it was like his head was shot out of a cannon-downward. It was unbelievable how quick it rocketed into the pavement. Result with a helmet--broken glasses.

[flydhest]

anybody ride downhill really fast, say above 50 miles per hour?

anybody ride in city traffic?

[laupsi]

I hear all these posts, and I understand that it is your decission to wear one or not.

Yet the Dutch very rarely wear one, where are all the cycling deaths there?
Or really in Europe in general. Wearing a helmet is mostly a US thing. Brought on by bike shops and helmet companies. They make money by selling you a helmet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuBdf9jYj7o

How many helmets do you see in the Vid?

okay so what's your point then? no one wears a helmet in Europe so therefore they're not needed? is it safe to say no one in Europe or in Holland has ever had a head injury from a fall while riding? sure the seat belt companies are making $$$ too so should we refrain from buying cars that have seat betls too?

[Dr. Sparrow]

Mostly but certianly not always.

Any serious/group road or MTB ride a wear one.

Just out and about, even if it's a very long out and about, about 50/50.

Make my kids follow the same rule.

They would never ride just to cruise if I made them wear one. For me, the long term benefits of riding (and learning to love it) out weight the risk.

[krhea]

I never wear a helmet...when I'm on my trainer or rollers...otherwise I have a wife, kids, realtives and friends to consider. In my mind it would be selfish to ride without a helmet and thumb my nose at those who are dear to me.
Side note, last October I had the first taste of road rash from a crash in the past 10 or 15yrs. It was scary, unavoidable, no cars or traffic involved or other cyclists. It was a 40mph downhill front tire blow-out on our tandem with the tire coming off the rim and trying to maintain "some" control while riding the rim. My wife and I survived with what can be called minor injuries in such a horrific crash, however, let's just say, my wife had to replace her helmet.
Sometimes no matter how good a rider/bike handler you are, once were or even more so, think you are, stuff happens that's completely out of your control. Those times are the reason I always wear a helmet.

The age old "European's don't wear them" arguement in so tired it's pitiful. Have you ridden in Denmark, Amsterdam etc? If so it's very easy to see why they don't feel compelled to wear helmets...cycling is and has been seriously and deepened ingrained in their culture forever. Their entire infrastructure works with cycling and cyclists to integrate them as safely and seamlessly as possible. Where do we have this same civic mentality here in the US? I live in Portland OR, a huge cycling metro often cited as the #1 cycling city in the US and even here we're eons away from having the cycling infrastructure that is apparent in places overseas.
In Europe drivers seeing a cyclist just about anywhere is rearly a surprise. In the US when a driver sees a cyclist it immediately provokes a "worried" response, "what will the rider do, where will they turn, am I to close, do I have room to pass" etc etc. Those thoughts lead to nervousness and many times resentment by drivers which leads to accidents which can and often do lead to serious injury for the cyclist.
If you happen to live in a city where the drivers actually respect you like the Dutch drivers do please let us know where that nirvana happens to be.
Having spent years in Europe, most of the drivers happen to also be "riders" a good portion of the time so just about everyone is aware of the interaction, do's and don'ts etc of coexisting which of course leads to extremely low accident/injury rates.

I'm all for "choice" when it comes to helmets except when it comes to youngsters who don't have the capacity to make an informed decision about their own safety. To make your kids wear a helmet and then to ride beside them without a helmet is the height of hypocrisy in my book.

KRhea

[christian]

anybody ride downhill really fast, say above 50 miles per hour?

anybody ride in city traffic?
Fastest I've gone is 64mph down the east side of the Fedaia.
I lived in NYC for 10 years.
These pedestrian stories are freaking me out though. Anybody know where I can pick up a good walking helmet?

PS: It's clear where this thread is headed, though....

[christian]

stuff happens that's completely out of your control. Those times are the reason I always wear a helmet.I assume this means on and off the bike. As well as water wings in the shower? :cool:

[Hawker]

Seems that about twice a year I forget mine and then realize it about fifty yards from the driveway. Have to admit I have continued riding a few times and found the wind in my hair very, very refreshing. Felt like a kid again. :)

YMMV.

[fourflys]

Helmet...always. Respect, but don't understand those that don't.

same here... like I'm sure Geoff has, I've seen way too many injuries as a medic to not wear one... I really don't want to leave my kids fatherless... besides, how can I set an example for them if I don't do it...

and I've been over the bars once (on a MUP of all places) and cracked a Lazer O2 all the way through... not sure I'd be typing this if I didn't have it on...

[Buzz]

I hear all these posts, and I understand that it is your decission to wear one or not.

Yet the Dutch very rarely wear one, where are all the cycling deaths there?
Or really in Europe in general. Wearing a helmet is mostly a US thing. Brought on by bike shops and helmet companies. They make money by selling you a helmet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuBdf9jYj7o

How many helmets do you see in the Vid?

I have been lucky to ride in Europe every year for the past five years. Even five years ago at least half of the folks on the road were sporting a helmet. Now it must be over 90% - really no different than here.

This is a photo from our trip this summer. We joined up with a variety of people at our hotel in Bormio as everyone was planning to do the same ride up and around the Stelvio and took a group photo. There are five americans there. The guys in orange are all from holland the rest are italians or germans. As you can see everyone is either wearing a helmet or holding onto one - except for one guy - but he was driving the van that day.

[bobswire]

anybody ride downhill really fast, say above 50 miles per hour?

anybody ride in city traffic?

Anybody ride downhill really fast? Yes and I was wearing a helmet during most of those times.

Anybody ride in city traffic? Yes, just got back from an errand, wore a cap no helmet. Lots of stop lights, traffic and other riders. I ride with due prudence in traffic and not very aggressively but very determined.

http://www.mapmyride.com/routes/view/66226048

[Ti Designs]

I always bring my wallet with me when I go to the store. It's not that I like to carry my wallet, it's a bit too large and makes half my a$$ look fat, but the money in there has already been earned so it's mine to spend. I would feel silly if I tried to buy something and found out I didn't have my wallet.

My helmet hides the fact that I'm balding and have a roof shaped head, more people recognize me wearing my helmet than not (this may have something to do with the pony tail), my helmet doesn't make my a$$ look lumpy on one side, and I would feel really silly if I crashed while not wearing my helmet and hit my head. My only hope would be that I hit my head hard enough to forget that I have a helmet sitting safely at home.

[zap]

Yes.

[Mark McM]

okay so what's your point then? no one wears a helmet in Europe so therefore they're not needed? is it safe to say no one in Europe or in Holland has ever had a head injury from a fall while riding? sure the seat belt companies are making $$$ too so should we refrain from buying cars that have seat betls too?

Since you brought up automobiles, I'm sure that you know that far more people die from head injuries in automobile accidents than die from all causes in bicycle accidents. Therefore, can we assume that you always wear a helmet when traveling in a car? If not, why not, since you never know when you might be in accident?

[Ti Designs]

Since you brought up automobiles, I'm sure that you know that far more people die from head injuries in automobile accidents than die from all causes in bicycle accidents. Therefore, can we assume that you always wear a helmet when traveling in a car? If not, why not, since you never know when you might be in accident?

I tried that once. Drove to work in my race car with my helmet on, 5 way harness and the big red sticker on the car showing where the battery shut off switch is. Got pulled over twice in less than 5 miles. Knowing there was nothing they could ticket me for, I had fun flipping up the visor and asking "Is there something wrong officer?" It is much safer that way - who gets hurt sitting on the side of the road with a cop car flashing it's lights behind you?

[tannhauser]

I have been lucky to ride in Europe every year for the past five years. Even five years ago at least half of the folks on the road were sporting a helmet. Now it must be over 90% - really no different than here.

This is a photo from our trip this summer. We joined up with a variety of people at our hotel in Bormio as everyone was planning to do the same ride up and around the Stelvio and took a group photo. There are five americans there. The guys in orange are all from holland the rest are italians or germans. As you can see everyone is either wearing a helmet or holding onto one - except for one guy - but he was driving the van that day.

Dear guys, it is ok to take them off for a photo op.

Unless the grass is really hard.

[Earl Gray]

..... - except for one guy - but he was driving the van that day.
So Europeans but on Lycra to to drive a van? :confused:

[tannhauser]

So Europeans but on Lycra to to drive a van? :confused:


What's the haps, Earl? Missed ya.

[Earl Gray]

What's the haps, Earl? Missed ya.

SSDD!

My weight wasn't coming down quick enough so I was banished from the big house.

Good news is I really am down 15 :hello:

[tannhauser]

SSDD!

My weight wasn't coming down quick enough so I was banished from the big house.

Good news is I really am down 15 :hello:

Keep yer nose on that stem, yo!

[SteveFrench]

I ride without a helmet maybe 5% of the time. I have no problem riding with helmetless people.

[ORMojo]

Mostly but certianly not always. Any serious/group road or MTB ride a wear one. Just out and about, even if it's a very long out and about, about 50/50. Make my kids follow the same rule. They would never ride just to cruise if I made them wear one. For me, the long term benefits of riding (and learning to love it) out weight the risk.

I don't understand the last part of this post.

Even though, as I've previously posted, I used to ride without a helmet at times, I never rode without a helmet in the presence of my children, nor have they, to this day (current ages ranging from 2 to 23), ever been on a bike (even a balance bike) or in a bike trailer without a helmet on.

Here's what I don't understand. You said "They would never ride just to cruise if I made them wear one." I disagree. They would, if that is all they knew. My kids never knew there was any other choice until they were older, and the helmet habit was already ingrained. We always let our kids pick out their own helmet when we bought one, and to my current 2-year-old, putting on her colorful helmet is one of the things she looks forward to as part of a bike or trailer ride.

Bottom line - I'm quite certain kids can and do "learn to love" riding without the requirement to wear a helmet presenting any downside or disincentive.

[witcombusa]

I ride without a helmet maybe 5% of the time. I have no problem riding with helmetless people.

Why would you?

[wc1934]

Does anyone here ride helmet less?

not me!
On those scary fast descents I'm looking for the seat belt and air bags.

[Grant McLean]

Bottom line - I'm quite certain kids can and do "learn to love" riding without the requirement to wear a helmet presenting any downside or disincentive.

Anything is possible.

But as it is, mostly people preach about the dangers of cycling,
when a child is a lot more likely to die falling down some stairs,
ten times more likely to die of accidental poisoning, or a drowning,
or even way more likely to suicide.

What is needed is some perspective.

-g

[witcombusa]

Anything is possible.

But as it is, mostly people preach about the dangers of cycling,
when a child is a lot more likely to die falling down some stairs,
ten times more likely to die of accidental poisoning, or a drowning,
or even way more likely to suicide.

What is needed is some perspective.

-g

Let's not brings any facts into a helmet thread....the people have spoken :no:

[Grant McLean]

Let's not brings any facts into a helmet thread....the people have spoken :no:

It's not really a battle of facts i'm interested in, more along the lines
of having people question what they take for granted they "know".

It's sort of like parents worrying about their kids walking to school because
they think it's not safe, so we drive them, and they're at a higher risk of
being in a car accident, or obesity from inactivity. We worry that some
stranger will harm our kids, when it's far more likely to be a close family member.
We worry about the wrong stuff sometimes.

The most effective way to ensure safe cycling is training, not foam head pads.

-g

[witcombusa]

It's not really a battle of facts i'm interested in, more along the lines
of having people question what they take for granted they "know".

It's sort of like parents worrying about their kids walking to school because
they think it's not safe, so we drive them, and they're at a higher risk of
being in a car accident, or obesity from inactivity. We worry that some
stranger will harm our kids, when it's far more likely to be a close family member.
We worry about the wrong stuff sometimes.

The most effective way to ensure safe cycling is training, not foam head pads.

-g

I'm with you 100%. Folks seem to want to think they have control, when in reality they are controlling some of the least dangerous aspects of their lives.
I see this same "thinking" on the skiing boards regarding helmet use there.
Worst of all, they never stop preaching.....

[krhea]

I assume this means on and off the bike. As well as water wings in the shower? :cool:
Not in the shower but yes when I take a bath as the water is a bit deeper and who knows what evil lurks underneath...better safe then sorry and water wings give me peace of mind. :cool:

[toaster]

Now if I had young children I would follow the fine example of making the kids wear theirs while the wife and I wear ball caps showing the entire world that we are cool and quite responsible ourselves and when the kids grow up they'll make their own decisions and hopefully not look nerdy with stupid helmets.

How's that?

What you judge me???

[chuckroast]

Only when I've been working on the bikes and need to go around the block to test.

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . since about 1985 up until my crash August 26, 2010, in which I went over the bars and into the asphalt at 20mph right on the front side of head. Broke my neck, sprained my shoulder, concussion face rash, and lost part of my right ear.

Speculate all you want, but I am absolutely, positively certain I would be dead if I had not been wearing one. I still have it hanging in my living room a a reminder.

Now I am more certain than ever to NEVER, EVER ride without one. It took 25 years, but I did eventually crash. So will you. Skip the helmet if you wish, but don't get all wound up if I think you're an idiot.

BBD

[CunegoFan]

anybody ride downhill really fast, say above 50 miles per hour?


50 mph greatly exceeds what bicycle helmets are designed to protect against. The kinetic energy is like fourteen times greater than the two meter drop test.

Risk compensation when the perceived protective benefits of bike helmets is grossly inflated is likely more dangerous than not wearing a helmet.

[laupsi]

I tried that once. Drove to work in my race car with my helmet on, 5 way harness and the big red sticker on the car showing where the battery shut off switch is. Got pulled over twice in less than 5 miles. Knowing there was nothing they could ticket me for, I had fun flipping up the visor and asking "Is there something wrong officer?" It is much safer that way - who gets hurt sitting on the side of the road with a cop car flashing it's lights behind you?

na, don't wear a helmet when driving, after all my car does have all the latest safety features, wearing a helmet probably wouldn't add any more protection than what I've already got and besides traumatic head injury is not the no. one reason people die in car accidents as is true w/bicycle deaths.

[Ti Designs]

I assume this means on and off the bike. As well as water wings in the shower?


I wear my helmet in the shower, it's how I wash my hair!

[tiretrax]

For all of those who talk about perspective and Euros not wearing helmets, I say Balderdash. I bet Fabio Cassertelli's parents wish it were required in 1995 - they'd have their son back. If you fall at 50 mph, you're not likely to do an endo and hit head first, so that's a specious arguement, as are all reasons to not wear one and listed above.

Choose not to wear one. That's fine. I see people on cruiser bikes all the time without one. However, I don't see any serious cyclist who is helmetless. They must know something.

Last spring, a girl using an ipod jogged into the path of a cyclist and was thrown to the ground. He was going no more than 10 miles an hour (backed up by over a dozen witnesses). She hit her head on the concrete. Off to the side of the path where the accident took place, there's a nice memorial cross that her parents installed in her memory.

[AgilisMerlin]

sometimes i do
sometimes i do not
i am ok with it


tidesigns - that's one clean helmet

[rounder]

Crashed one time last year. First time i can remember. I was scuffed up...so was my helmut....coulda been worse. Always gonna wear a helmut.

[CunegoFan]

For all of those who talk about perspective and Euros not wearing helmets, I say Balderdash. I bet Fabio Cassertelli's parents wish it were required in 1995 - they'd have their son back. If you fall at 50 mph, you're not likely to do an endo and hit head first, so that's a specious arguement, as are all reasons to not wear one and listed above.
The way I heard it, Casartelli hit a concrete bollard at high speed and the top of his spinal column was pushed into the lower part of his brain. A bike helmet would not have done a thing.

Last spring, a girl using an ipod jogged into the path of a cyclist and was thrown to the ground. He was going no more than 10 miles an hour (backed up by over a dozen witnesses). She hit her head on the concrete. Off to the side of the path where the accident took place, there's a nice memorial cross that her parents installed in her memory.
If only she had been wearing a helmet while jogging. Dr. Robert Atkins fell while walking outside his office and died from head injuries. I don't know if there is a memorial cross in New York where he fell, but if only he had been wearing a helmet while walking...

[SteveFrench]

Why would you?


It has been as issue on the local group rides, here in Saratoga Springs. I personally don't care but I understand some people don't want to witness a bicycle accident where a fallen rider is without a helmet. I understand their point of view but as I said before, I won't bust anyones balls for not wearing a helmet. We're all adults and have our reasons for doing things as we do.

[avalonracing]

I rode for years without a helmet (Even on my motorcycle). On group (bicycle) rides friends said that eventually they'd be scraping my brains from the pavement. Then on a training ride one beautiful day I went over the bars in a freak accident and landed directly on my helmetless head just like a pile driver. The pain was horrendous, like a sledgehammer to the head. I was sure that my skull was split open and that I'd only have seconds to live.

For some reason my hard skull took the blow without cracking. I still took a painful ride to the hospital in an ambulance. I had a bad concussion and a week later a cyst came up from the impact that had to be surgically removed by a plastic surgeon.

I swore I wouldn't ever crash on my head but I learned my lesson. So, now I wear my helmet... Always. I'm lucky I didn't die that day and I'm even luckier that I didn't end up needing lifelong full-time care.

[firerescuefin]

50 mph greatly exceeds what bicycle helmets are designed to protect against. The kinetic energy is like fourteen times greater than the two meter drop test.

Risk compensation when the perceived protective benefits of bike helmets is grossly inflated is likely more dangerous than not wearing a helmet.

This post is just silly.

It's not going to protect you from a Weylandt like crash...but we all know that. I don't go bombing down descents with a helmet thinking somehow my giro/lazer/brandx helmet is some amazing safety pod and I doubt others do either......you're inferring in this post that it's safer to ride without a helmet because I'll be more cautious....cmon now.

Added: FWIW, the majority of serious head injuries and fatalities I have responded to (bike related) were low speed without helmets.

[UKBROOKLYN]

I would be dead or at least bankrupt from hospital bills if i was not wearing a helmet when I crashed last year. The force of the impact cracked and scraped the helmet up something fearful. I had to buy a new one.. better that brain damage.

I am militantly pro helmet. I refuse to ride in groups that allow helmet less riders. If someone is either so careless of their own safety or too stupid I certainly don't want to be anywhere near them on a bicycle.
Likewise anyone who drinks and rides. Roughly one third of bicycle deaths involve alcohol and 25% are drunk.

Anybody reading the statistics can see that 90% of cycling deaths occur to non helmet wearers. Thats not to say they are all head injuries. But there is a correlation between risk and death. One that I am not willing to take.

[CunegoFan]

This post is just silly.

It's not going to protect you from a Weylandt like crash...but we all know that. I don't go bombing down descents with a helmet thinking somehow my giro/lazer/brandx helmet is some amazing safety pod and I doubt others do either......you're inferring in this post that it's safer to ride without a helmet because I'll be more cautious....cmon now.

What is silly is the thought that people wearing safety equipment do not change their behavior.

Risk compensation is real. Above someone referenced a study that shows it. It's all good and fine if one has an accurate perception of the benefits of safety equipment but, as seen by posts in this thread, people ascribe levels of protection to helmets that far exceed the reality. Thus they will likely overcompensate and increase their chances of injury.

[wooly]

I'll chime in. The only time I don't wear one is when I'm taking my dog on a bike/run around the block. Otherwise always. And glad I do. Crashed a couple of months ago going 25mph. Miraculously I didn't hit my head but still a suffering from a bad shoulder injury and chipped bones in my elbow. Hip is still sore too. If I crashed just a hair differently I could've landed on my head. It happened so fast. Scared the crap out of me.

[firerescuefin]

What is silly is the thought that people wearing safety equipment do not change their behavior.

Risk compensation is real. Above someone referenced a study that shows it. It's all good and fine if one has an accurate perception of the benefits of safety equipment but, as seen by posts in this thread, people ascribe levels of protection to helmets that far exceed the reality. Thus they will likely overcompensate and increase their chances of injury.

Brother...this little helmet on my head doesn't lead me into a false sense of security or lead me on to take additional risks, but it beats going without one IMO.... Cycling is a great sport, but I do count the costs and have changed my behavior accordingly over time (roads I will no longer rode on/ types of riders I refuse to ride with)...what conclusion do you want me to draw. Those that ride without helmets take less risks...not in my experience. On aggressive rides, they have tended to be the dicks with something to prove or some image to defend. There are plenty of great folks that don't wear helmets, but the conclusion that somehow they are safer or risk averse is false...you can quote whatever study you want.

[CunegoFan]

Brother...this little helmet on my head doesn't lead me into a false sense of security or lead me on to take additional risks, but it beats going without one IMO.... Cycling is a great sport, but I do count the costs and have changed my behavior accordingly over time (roads I will no longer rode on/ types of riders I refuse to ride with)...what conclusion do you want me to draw. Those that ride without helmets take less risks...not in my experience. On aggressive rides, they have tended to be the dicks with something to prove or some image to defend. There are plenty of great folks that don't wear helmets, but the conclusion that somehow they are safer or risk averse is false...you can quote whatever study you want.
Okay. The Wikipedia article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Risk_compensation contains links to many studies. If you want to ignore them that is your choice.

[LouDeeter]

Every year at "Bike Week" time here in Florida (that is Motorcycle bike week), the issue of helmets comes up because Florida does not require them. One of the more interesting discussions had to do with the cost to society to care for all those brain damaged and otherwise handicapped people who sustained head injuries while riding helmetless. Some people say it is only the rider who is hurt, so self choice makes it okay. This discussion showed that isn't necessarily so. I've cracked four helmets in the past ten years. I ride with a helmet, always.

[pedlpwrd]

+1, I have a teenager, I must stay alive for, and I ride primarily near the LIRR tracks. Anyone who rides without a helmet with all the LI soccer moms on the loose with their big SUV'S and phones and nails and... Well, you get the picture. :D

[SteveFrench]

Every year at "Bike Week" time here in Florida (that is Motorcycle bike week), the issue of helmets comes up because Florida does not require them. One of the more interesting discussions had to do with the cost to society to care for all those brain damaged and otherwise handicapped people who sustained head injuries while riding helmetless. Some people say it is only the rider who is hurt, so self choice makes it okay. This discussion showed that isn't necessarily so. I've cracked four helmets in the past ten years. I ride with a helmet, always.



I've heard that argument before. I don't know any statistics (I'd like to) but surely there are just as many (probably more) people with brain injuries resulting from falls on stairs and ladders. Yet, we don't require people to were helmets when using those things. And we don't bitch about having to support those who fall off ladders or stairs. BTW I wear my moto hemlet even where it's not required.

[witcombusa]

It has been as issue on the local group rides, here in Saratoga Springs. I personally don't care but I understand some people don't want to witness a bicycle accident where a fallen rider is without a helmet. I understand their point of view but as I said before, I won't bust anyones balls for not wearing a helmet. We're all adults and have our reasons for doing things as we do.

Well anyone who wants to start on me for not dressing like the cool kids, I really could care less. The overriding thought of a great percentage of "helmet preachers" is that there is no other choice but their own. I don't care if they wear one or not and yet my choice is so very offensive to them.

Get over it

[SteveFrench]

Well anyone who wants to start on me for not dressing like the cool kids, I really could care less. The overriding thought of a great percentage of "helmet preachers" is that there is no other choice but their own. I don't care if they wear one or not and yet my choice is so very offensive to them.

Get over it


Chill out bud, I'm on your side.

[witcombusa]

Chill out bud, I'm on your side.

I was talking to the folks on group rides who can't leave it be....not you personally

Sorry if I was not clear

[UKBROOKLYN]

Risk Compensation is a hollow argument when you look at the statistics.
90% of bicycle deaths occur to riders who are not wearing helmets. 50% of riders wear helmets.
If anything riders who do not wear helmets are more likely to take risks not the other way around.
In my neighborhood its pretty clear. You can see non helmet wearing riders on fixed gear cycles with no brakes no lights at night no warning device etc etc.. flying through red lights. In my experience helmet wearers do so because they are safety conscious, they also tend to be riders that really ride. ie they do big distances over the year not just around the houses. So no I don't want to ride near to or with the helmetless risk takers no thanks.

[oldpotatoe]

I admit I still occasionally ride helmet less when I know I'm going on "leisurely ride" or heading downtown on a errand.
It took me a long time to accept wearing helmet having been riding since the 70's.


Summer day, up the FrootLoops or up to Jamestown, riding by myself, yep, the helmet is on the handlebars.

Ride on down to the postoffice on our 'LB'(LiquorBike), no lid...

Test ride bikes I have tuned, nope.

Gonnna read thru all the posts now(lots of them), curious how long before get the 'how much is your head worth, saved my life, noggin not worth it, your wife/children' type comments.

About 35..more than I would have thought. Somewhat 'religious', IMHO.



Personal choice, has NO effect on others.

[oldpotatoe]

Same. The kids factor is too great for me not to wear a dome-saver. I didn't realize this was still a debate.

It's not a debate, it's a personal choice. Whether or not somebody wears one has no effect on anybody around you. And yes, I have health insurance.

[Earl Gray]

I don't understand the last part of this post.

Even though, as I've previously posted, I used to ride without a helmet at times, I never rode without a helmet in the presence of my children, nor have they, to this day (current ages ranging from 2 to 23), ever been on a bike (even a balance bike) or in a bike trailer without a helmet on.

Here's what I don't understand. You said "They would never ride just to cruise if I made them wear one." I disagree. They would, if that is all they knew. My kids never knew there was any other choice until they were older, and the helmet habit was already ingrained. We always let our kids pick out their own helmet when we bought one, and to my current 2-year-old, putting on her colorful helmet is one of the things she looks forward to as part of a bike or trailer ride.

Bottom line - I'm quite certain kids can and do "learn to love" riding without the requirement to wear a helmet presenting any downside or disincentive.

If you have teenage boys that will hop on a beach cruiser to cruise the hood with their friends and are willing to wear a helmet, I feel sorry for them.

Wear them when they are justified. Teach you kids the same.

[William]

As I said earlier, I wear my helmet 99% of the time. Once in a blue moon I'll take a spin lidless.

Looking back I can remember when no one wore helmets when riding bikes. You might see the pros wear the hair nets but I think it was shown they didn't do a whole lot to protect the noggin. Maybe it's a miracle I'm still here today, but I look back at all the trail riding, dirt road bombing, street racing, jumping, and demolition derbies we did as kids and I never hit my head. There were many wipe outs, cuts, bruises, and copious amounts of road rash. Add to that hill bombing in various go-cart like contraptions, mini-bikes, motorcycles, vert and high speed downhill skateboarding and full contact no pads football and fighting. I've had more wipe outs then your average bear. Through all of these experiences I was lidless. One of the reasons I think I came through all this without slamming my head is because I learned to move and fall through tumbling when I was very young. Diving rolls being the most useful. In a crit race I've written about before, four of us were off the front in a rain storm and one of the guys went down in front of me in a corner. I had no where to go but right into him. I launched over the bars and was flying face first through the air....

An aside: Through training, and I'll use open hand and weapons training/fighting as the example, you get to a point where things seem to slow down in the heat of battle. You see what is happening around you clearly and you are able to react accordingly. In reality, things aren't slowing down, your brain is processing what is happening at a faster rate which allows/triggers reflex action. When you first spar under pressure be it open hand, edged, or impact weapons, things seem to happen so fast it's a blur. Most people can't tell you what happened, or comment that the knife, baton, or hands were so fast they could barely see them. After training for a while and being put under pressure more often movement seems to slow down. You begin to be able to see the angles of attack as they happen, (blade/impact/open hand) awareness is heightened, and reflexive action speeds up.

.... just before hitting the ground I tucked and rolled and ended up back on my feet in a sort of "Ta-da!!" movement. The incident may have only lasted a split second, but to me it seemed like it was four or five. I knew I was airborne and I saw the ground coming up in slow motion and reflexively did the right thing at the right time. The back of my Sub-6 helmet was smashed in, but those things stuck out a bit so who knows if I actually would have hit my head? But I'm glad I was wearing it. Through hundreds of incidents, and some very bad wipe outs I came through without ever seriously hitting my head. I'm sure it was a combination of luck and proper reaction. The worst head injury I've ever had was early in my training. We were working with a 6' staff. My partner and I were practicing attacking and counter attacking and our instructor called for us to stop. I stopped and turned toward the instructor,and my partner turned and slammed me full on the top of my head. Didn't knock me out, but it rocked me really good. For two weeks after that I could lightly push down on top of my head with my finger and make myself instantly nauseous.

I would be comfortable riding more without a helmet because I know that the chances are I will do the right thing if I go down. But I also know that all it takes is one wrong move and you could head plant no matter what you do. I could also walk out my door, slip on some ice and smash my head on a fence post and be done with it. There are risks in everything we do. The fact that someone doesn't wear a helmet isn't going to stop me from riding with them. Heck, I've seen people who do wear helmets who couldn't hold a straight line better then a drunk Squirrel. Those are the folks I give a wide berth to. I was almost taken out at one of the Serotta Open House group rides by a supposed experienced rider who pulled an asshat move in the group.....so I don't base my judgements on whether someone has his lid on or not. I wouldn't do a large group ride without one myself though.

That being said I still wear a helmet 99% of the time today. When I do that occasional ride without I get that thrill feel of being a kid again. Sort of renews my love of riding bikes (and then it's back on my head).






William

[Grant McLean]

http://bicyclesafe.com/

This site raises some good issues about helmets:

http://bicyclesafe.com/helmets.html

Ride safe!
The more of us on the road, the safer it is for everyone.

-g

[BumbleBeeDave]

Personal choice, has NO effect on others.

. . . but I have to disagree with such a blanket statement.

If I choose not to wear a helmet and end up dead or "Mr. Brain Stem"--as I would have been in my crash if I had not been wearing one--then it definitely WILL have an effect on my daughter, who would lose her Dad, and my girlfriend, who would lose the guy she loves.

That's an "effect" I never want to have on them. I will continue to always wear a helmet.

BBD

[oldpotatoe]

. . . but I have to disagree with such a blanket statement.

If I choose not to wear a helmet and end up dead or "Mr. Brain Stem"--as I would have been in my crash if I had not been wearing one--then it definitely WILL have an effect on my daughter, who would lose her Dad, and my girlfriend, who would lose the guy she loves.

That's an "effect" I never want to have on them. I will continue to always wear a helmet.

BBD

That's assuming that the crash with the helmet would have not resulted in your death, which is highly questionable and not testable.

'WEARING' a helmet has no effect on others around you, would be a 'nanny' law if created. Not wearing one, meaning if you crash, you would be dead or permanently impaired does not necessarily follow.

The OP asked who rides w/o one, I sometimes do. What I will fight against is mandatory helmet use. And this 'helmets are a panacea to head injury' is a step in that direction.

AND if that looks like it may become inevitable, they had better start with motorcycle riders first. Those that ride in traffic, at traffic speeds.

If ya want to wear a helmet, go ahead, but this 'I don't want to hurt those around me so I wear a helmet' view, does not necessarily follow. If I was really concerned about dying, I wouldn't have flown off aircraft carriers for all those years, nor flown off them at night. But as they say, pays yer money, takes yer chances.

Not long ago a woman riding Elephant Rock fell on her face, was killed, and was wearing a helmet.

I will continue to take mine off when going up hill, by myself, on small roads. Doesn't mean I don't care about my wife, kids, grand daughter or cats.

[harryschwartzma]

Riding helmetless is like doing it without a condom - feels great, but the consequences can be painful and life-long.

[rugbysecondrow]

Riding helmetless is like doing it without a condom - feels great, but the consequences can be painful and life-long.

+1
Gets it.

[William]

+1
Gets it.

Hey rugby, did you guys wear helmets (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2001/10/011011065700.htm) when you played? just curious because I can't remember ever seeing a Rugby player wearing a helmet.





William

[witcombusa]

Riding helmetless is like doing it without a condom - feels great, but the consequences can be painful and life-long.


You're riding the wrong thing :no:

Choose your "riding" partners a bit more carefully and you won't need a "helmet"

[firerescuefin]

Cunegofan...I do not mean to be disagreeable, but nothing in my history as a what I have viewed or experienced as a rider or emergency responder supports what you're saying.

I don't want helmets mandated...like I said earlier, I respect, but don't understand the choice. Some of the arguements I hear remind me of the guy that says he doesn't wear a seatbelt and then wants to argue or justify the choice by citing statistic of people that died with seatbelts on. Cool, don't wear a seatbelt.

[Germany_chris]

Ummm the question was who doesn't wear a helmet not "please justify your wearing of or not wearing of a helmet" the helmet people as usual came into a thread to preach to the unwashed it happens in every helmet thread on every cycling board.

[Germany_chris]

Cunegofan...I do not mean to be disagreeable, but nothing in my history as a what I have viewed or experienced as a rider or emergency responder supports what you're saying.

I don't want helmets mandated...like I said earlier, I respect, but don't understand the choice. Some of the arguements I hear remind me of the guy that says he doesn't wear a seatbelt and then wants to argue or justify the choice by citing statistic of people that died with seatbelts on. Cool, don't wear a seatbelt.

But you like the doctor you only see sick people, you don't see every cash in your AO just the ones your called to.

[firerescuefin]

Ummm the question was who doesn't wear a helmet not "please justify your wearing of or not wearing of a helmet" the helmet people as usual came into a thread to preach to the unwashed it happens in every helmet thread on every cycling board.

It's called a discussion board and FWIW, you have no problem...ever...injecting your opinion on anything whether it's wanted or not. So don't cry foul when the thread drift doesn't go the way you'd like...I actually welcome it (your opions here and elsewhere) as well as many others I may or may not agree with.

Helmets are like the gun control or pro choice/pro life argument of cyclng...everyone has an opinion. As long as the opinion or discussion doesn't involve name calling, I think it's healthy. One of my best friends is a former Pro Tour guy who rode in the 80's and 90's...doesn't wear a helmet. We've talked about it plenty. He gets it (what risks he's assuming) but chooses to keep riding without one. I'm OK with that, but still wish he'd wear one, and hope his good run continues.

[tiretrax]

And yes, I have health insurance.

It's not just health insurance that you need - it's long term care insurance that will come into play if one sustains a seriously debilitating injury.

I hate nanny laws, but a helmet law is one I can live with. It's the low speed fall where your hands can't help you break the fall that you are most at risk - holding the dog, or you're holding a coffee and sipping it, or your holding some liquor.

Old Potatoe, When you were flying off carriers, were you wearing a helmet? The only time I can see it being of assistance to a pilot is in ejection, but that's a low risk proposition too, I think. How many times does a pilot eject, how many times does a pilot come in contact with the canopy?

As for the lady who fell at Elephant Rock, one of the knocks on helmets and the safety panacea is that they don't completely cover all the vulnerable spots on the head. But no one would want to wear a full face helmet. One thing that's interesting is that skateboard and bmx helmets do cover more - again, lower speed falls.

Cuneugo Fan - A helmet would have kept his head from splitting open and spilling his brains on the rock he hit. He might have still died from the neck/spin injury, but it would have been a lot less gruesome.

Sure, there's plenty of risk that we face every day and need to judge and weigh the consequences. It's your choice on many of them. If you choose to not wear a helmet, that's fine with me. I choose to always put one on before I swing my leg over the seat.

[Germany_chris]

but I don't tell people what they should do, nor do I imply that I am somehow smarter than others because I do or don't do something.

[witcombusa]

It's called a discussion board and FWIW, you have no problem...ever...injecting your opinion on anything whether it's wanted or not. So don't cry foul when the thread drift doesn't go the way you'd like...I actually welcome it (your opions here and elsewhere) as well as many others I may or may not agree with.

Helmets are like the gun control or pro choice/pro life argument of cyclng...everyone has an opinion. As long as the opinion or discussion doesn't involve name calling, I think it's healthy. One of my best friends is a former Pro Tour guy who rode in the 80's and 90's...doesn't wear a helmet. We've talked about it plenty. He gets it (what risks he's assuming) but chooses to keep riding without one. I'm OK with that, but still wish he'd wear one, and hope his good run continues.

It's really just pointless. No ones "choice" will be altered.

This is a perfect case where a simple YES from the people that don't ever/ or always, put one on per the OP would be most useful.

Sometimes less is more

[tiretrax]

You're riding the wrong thing :no:

Choose your "riding" partners a bit more carefully and you won't need a "helmet"

He's not talking about disease - he's got kids!

[witcombusa]

He's not talking about disease - he's got kids!

That's worse than a head injury! :crap:

[bobswire]

Kinda funny how questions like this spark debates. Kinda like gun ownership.
Yes I own gun(s) too.

[William]

This thread reminds me of the comedian Justin McKinney talking about New Hampshire....

Live Free or Die!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnTVNZojojU






William

[Seramount]

after crashing and hitting my head while helmet-less in the late 70s, I've worn one on every ride since. the experience truly sucked and I have a groove in my skull as a souvenir.

most of the arguments against using a helmet are seriously weak...uncomfortable, Europeans don't use them, solo rides are safe, blah blah...but, hey, if you have nothing valuable to protect, don't wear one. it seems like an easy thing to do to reduce potential head trauma.

I'd estimate that 95% of the roadies I see locally have a helmet.

[firerescuefin]

It's really just pointless. No ones "choice" will be altered.

This is a perfect case where a simple YES from the people that don't ever/ or always, put one on per the OP would be most useful.

Sometimes less is more

I disagree....yeah, I'm pro helmet. Would I like others to learn from what I've witnessed or perceived to have witnessed....yes. Would others that are sharing their stories like to keep others safe yes...people don't want others hurt.

[witcombusa]

I disagree....yeah, I'm pro helmet. Would I like others to learn from what I've witnessed or perceived to have witnessed....yes. Would others that are sharing their stories like to keep others safe yes...people don't want others hurt.


It's not your choice....

Spare us the preaching......REALLY

[Vientomas]

It's not just health insurance that you need - it's long term care insurance that will come into play if one sustains a seriously debilitating injury.

If you don't have long term care insurance, who picks up the tab? The State - meaning the approximately 50% of us who pay taxes. The decision not to wear a helmet can have an effect on a large number of people.

This discussion is similar to the seat belt debate. Bottom line is helmets and seat belts reduce injuries and reduce costs transferred to society. You may choose to not use a seat belt or a helmet but I cannot choose to refuse to pay for your care via my tax payments if you don't have insurance or the financial means to pay for your own care.

[Grant McLean]

most of the arguments against using a helmet are seriously weak...uncomfortable, Europeans don't use them, solo rides are safe, blah blah...but, hey, if you have nothing valuable to protect, don't wear one. it seems like an easy thing to do to reduce potential head trauma.



Helmets are the poster child for safety is exactly because
they're an easy thing to do - not because our society is actually
interested in taking a look at the facts regarding our safety.

Put one on, and you're done.... go ride with the belief you're fine.
Good luck with that.

-g

[firerescuefin]

Spare us the preaching......REALLY


From you, the person that is the most vocally adamant on this board against Anything bike related, developed in the last 25 years....is laughable.

I have and will continue to be respectful regarding the issue.. but won't be shouted or talked down to by someone who throws stones like yourself.

[alancw3]

i love riding w/o a helmet but only a fool would ride w/o a helmet imho!

[Grant McLean]

This discussion is similar to the seat belt debate. Bottom line is helmets and seat belts reduce injuries and reduce costs transferred to society.

Another way of looking at it is seat belts transfer the cost of the collision
from the car driver to their victims.

Seat belts don't reduce injuries by preventing accidents.
The more people can drive their cars without fear of being personally
injured, the more disconnected they become from the reality that
hitting a pedestrian or cyclist is likely to cause serious injury because
they don't have that same protection.

This isn't an argument "against" seatbelts! It's an argument FOR an
intelligent discussion about the consequences of thinking we solve safety
with technology, and not understanding human behaviour.

g

[Grant McLean]

i love riding w/o a helmet but only a fool would ride w/o a helmet imho!

So when everyone wears a helmet, we don't have to talk about cycling
safety anymore, problem solved?

-g

[witcombusa]

From you, the person that is the most vocally adamant on this board against Anything bike related developed in the last 25 years....is laughable.

I have and will continue to be respectful regarding the issue.. but won't be shouted or talked down to by someone who throws stones like yourself.

I'm throwing stones? Really, where?

I state that some of the newer tech holds nothing in the way of improvement for ME. You can do whatever you like with yours.

But you do have me wondering if anything post say 1990 has enhanced my personal cycling. I can't think of a single thing. Well maybe tire selection in the 700 x 35-38 size range.....

[firerescuefin]

Another way of looking at it is seat belts transfer the cost of the collision
from the car driver to their victims.

Seat belts don't reduce injuries by preventing accidents.
The more people can drive their cars without fear of being personally
injured, the more disconnected they become from the reality that
hitting a pedestrian or cyclist is likely to cause serious injury because
they don't have that same protection.

This isn't an argument "against" seatbelts! It's an argument FOR an
intelligent discussion about the consequences of thinking we solve safety
with technology, and not understanding human behaviour.

g

I'll bite Grant. Do you disconnect yourself from driving safely when you buckle your safety belt or strap on your helmet. I understand the premise, but won't make the leap in this case....or in the case of helmets.

Conceding to your point...perhaps some people attribute too much protection to what their helmets can do....getting that word out does not limit the good they may still do...and may change those folks riding habits.

[UKBROOKLYN]

Lots of helmet wearers like to share stories about falling off and having their lives saved by the helmet they were wearing. Me too.
Funny how there are no stories from people who don't wear a helmet who fell off and hit their head.. Could it be because they can no longer hold a pencil... enough said.

[Grant McLean]

I'll bite Grant. Do you disconnect yourself from driving safely when you buckle your safety belt or strap on your helmet. I understand the premise, but won't make the leap in this case....or in the case of helmets..

I think we all do.

The evidence is stated every time we have these discussions, and people say
how they wouldn't ride without a helmet, or drive without a seat belt.

If you wouldn't ride without a helmet, explain to me how you aren't disconnected
from that safety fear just by putting a helmet on?
If you slow down because you wouldn't feel safe without the gear,
aren't you taking extra risk because you think you're protected?

-g

[bobswire]

Lots of helmet wearers like to share stories about falling off and having their lives saved by the helmet they were wearing. Me too.
Funny how there are no stories from people who don't wear a helmet who fell off and hit their head.. Could it be because they can no longer hold a pencil... enough said.

No there is more to be said.

It's not about the bike or in this case the helmet when discussing cycling accidents, in most cases it is rider error, judgement, foresight, ability and being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Rather than suggest wearing a helmet because you had a bad accident I'd suggest explaining the circumstances that led to your accident and your actions prior would be of more value than just,"wear a helmet" because I rode off a cliff and cracked my noggin.

I've never had a moving violation or major accident in an auto or a bike in over 50 years of being a licensed driver and bike rider.
Luck had no play in it either. ATMO

FYI I do wear a helmet 90% of the time but that is by choice not because I found Jesus and desperately want you to find him too.

[Z3c]

This guy did...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/ed/Andrei_Kivilev.jpg/220px-Andrei_Kivilev.jpg

+1; a picture, as they say.. You have to be realistic about what you think a helmet can save you from. IIRC, his crash caused Vino to start wearing a helmet all the time..

I would be interested to know if those who don't wear a helmet wear their seatbelts? Not sure why you would vary..

Helmets are so comfortable that to me there is no justification for not wearing one unless you have nobody in your life who cares about you.

[firerescuefin]

I think we all do.

The evidence is stated every time we have these discussions, and people say
how they wouldn't ride without a helmet, or drive without a seat belt.

If you wouldn't ride without a helmet, explain to me how you aren't disconnected
from that safety fear just by putting a helmet on?
If you slow down because you wouldn't feel safe without the gear,
aren't you taking extra risk because you think you're protected?

-g

I said earlier in the thread that most of the serious head injuries/fatalities I have witnessed/responded to were low speed helmet less. I've seen the guy
whose helmet is splintered, dazed but alive...and I've seen the guy wearing a helmet DOA. Palpating the side or back of someone's head and finding a mushy flat mess will change your paradigm on helmets and seat belts.

We have chosen a sport that can go wrong...by our own or others poor judgement....at Pretty much any speed, with catastrophic consequences. If I think about it...I'm more worried about a high side Beloki type incident (pelvic/leg injuries) than I am a Weylandt/Casartelli incident...and I have no misconceptions about how unsuitable my gear is in that case...but I choose to ride descents quickly anyways.

[William]

+1; a picture, as they say.. You have to be realistic about what you think a helmet can save you from. IIRC, his crash caused Vino to start wearing a helmet all the time..

I would be interested to know if those who don't wear a helmet wear their seatbelts? Not sure why you would vary..

Helmets are so comfortable that to me there is no justification for not wearing one unless you have nobody in your life who cares about you.


I think this is a good example of why some threads like this take on a tone...

Helmets are so comfortable that to me there is no justification for not wearing one...

End it there. Cool.

...unless you have nobody in your life who cares about you.

A little stone stuck in for good measure and down the slippery slope we go...

Just sayin'





William

[Germany_chris]

Lots of helmet wearers like to share stories about falling off and having their lives saved by the helmet they were wearing. Me too.
Funny how there are no stories from people who don't wear a helmet who fell off and hit their head.. Could it be because they can no longer hold a pencil... enough said.

I've been in three car bike accidents (MI, NY, HI) one with a drunk driver..never hit my head..

I did how ever hit my head bad enough to knock me out while riding stairs in Kalamazoo MI in 2008..I don't know what happened I was riding then I woke up in Bronson Methodist Hospital..Had a nice mild concussion..still don't wear a helmet.

Upstate NY winter of 2002 some snow downhill race can't think of the name I mis judged a jump loaded the rear suspension to early, broke my collar bone didn't hot my head.

[firerescuefin]

No there is more to be said.

It's not about the bike or in this case the helmet when discussing cycling accidents, in most cases it is rider error, judgement, foresight, ability and being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Rather than suggest wearing a helmet because you had a bad accident I'd suggest explaining the circumstances that led to your accident and your actions prior would be of more value than just,"wear a helmet" because I rode off a cliff and cracked my noggin.

I've never had a moving violation or major accident in an auto or a bike in over 50 years of being a licensed driver and bike rider.
Luck had no play in it either. ATMO

FYI I do wear a helmet 90% of the time but that is by choice not because I
found Jesus and desperately want you to find him too.



By yourself on a perfect bike path with no variables....your argument wears well. Race....ride in groups...or involve other people...it does not.

Your habits have certainly served you well. Good fortune or whatever you want to call it has as well. I've seen entire families lost in MVAs by no fault of their own...as well as riders with considerable skill get taken out by fill in the blank

[firerescuefin]

Enjoyed the discussion....as Peter may say...time to pull the handles on the Martin Baker.

[CunegoFan]

Cunegofan...I do not mean to be disagreeable, but nothing in my history as a what I have viewed or experienced as a rider or emergency responder supports what you're saying.

I don't want helmets mandated...like I said earlier, I respect, but don't understand the choice. Some of the arguements I hear remind me of the guy that says he doesn't wear a seatbelt and then wants to argue or justify the choice by citing statistic of people that died with seatbelts on. Cool, don't wear a seatbelt.
So you think that wearing safety equipment has no effect on risks taken? An MTB rider wearing armor will not rider any faster or take more risks that one wearing only lycra? Multiple studies say you are wrong.

A helmet that passed the two meter drop test will decrease an effective impact at 50 kph to 45 kph. That is a 3 mph difference. Bike helmet absorb so little kinetic energy at descending speeds that it only takes a small modification of behavior to wipe out their benefit.

I am not telling people not to wear helmets. I wear one usually. I try to keep aware of their ineffectiveness at high speeds. I am just against this irrational scaremongering where people are afraid of riding around the block without a helmet because they might tip over and die. They could just as well fall over and die while walking their dog or taking a shower. They don't advocate wearing helmets during those activities. People should take the amount of risk into consideration when making decisions.

I am against people who shout at me about helmets while I am doing a ten mile climb in 95 degree heat with my helmet strapped to my handlebars and the shouter is blasting downhill in a full tuck at 50 mph trying to maximize his speed. It is irrational. It is idiocy. Who is taking the biggest risk there?

[tiretrax]

I am against people who shout at me about helmets while I am doing a ten mile climb in 95 degree heat with my helmet strapped to my handlebars and the shouter is blasting downhill in a full tuck at 50 mph trying to maximize his speed. It is irrational. It is idiocy. Who is taking the biggest risk there?
That is idiotic. What's the person who's bombing doing looking at you and yelling at you rather than looking down the road. What's interesting is that you posit riding up a climb without your helmet. The UCI and ASO, as you undoubtedly know, used to permit riders to doff their helmets when the race ended the on a climb. No longer.

Yes, I don't wear a helmet in the shower. I haven't installed grab bars in mine, either. Nor, do I wear one walking down the street. I don't anticipate falling. Falls are common on bicycles, however, especially in races and on paths. By the way, I mentioned the cyclist who hit the girl on the local path and she died - he was wearing a helmet and hit his head in the fall.

I lived in the northeast a few years ago. There was an ice storm, and I had to take my garbage out to the curb. I had both hands full, and I slipped on the steps, leading to a lower back injury. I learned to use the handrail no matter what.

[UKBROOKLYN]

I've been in three car bike accidents (MI, NY, HI) one with a drunk driver..never hit my head..

I did how ever hit my head bad enough to knock me out while riding stairs in Kalamazoo MI in 2008..I don't know what happened I was riding then I woke up in Bronson Methodist Hospital..Had a nice mild concussion..still don't wear a helmet.

Upstate NY winter of 2002 some snow downhill race can't think of the name I mis judged a jump loaded the rear suspension to early, broke my collar bone didn't hot my head.

i was not talking about people having accidents and NOT hitting their head. I am looking for the people who DID hit their head and survive to tell the story.. You were lucky to wake up..but maybe you didn't completely wake up.. you don't seem to have learned anything..

[oldpotatoe]

Lots of helmet wearers like to share stories about falling off and having their lives saved by the helmet they were wearing. Me too.
Funny how there are no stories from people who don't wear a helmet who fell off and hit their head.. Could it be because they can no longer hold a pencil... enough said.

Got hit from behind by a pickup truck while riding my bicycle. Face into windshield(think up, upside down, face into windshield), not really sure cuz she was asleep and I was out for 15 minutes, followed by about 40 hours of amnesia. BUT fine and dandy now and neuro said if I HAD being wearing a helmet, I may have broken my neck, hitting her windshield with my face(12 stitches around my right eye).

Helmets are not panaceas for never having a head injury or death if you wear one and crash.

[CunegoFan]

By the way, I mentioned the cyclist who hit the girl on the local path and she died - he was wearing a helmet and hit his head in the fall.

The thing I got out of that story was that the jogger should have been wearing a helmet.

[thwart]

Got hit from behind by a pickup truck while riding my bicycle. Face into windshield(think up, upside down, face into windshield), not really sure cuz she was asleep and I was out for 15 minutes, followed by about 40 hours of amnesia. BUT fine and dandy now and neuro said if I HAD being wearing a helmet, I may have broken my neck, hitting her windshield with my face(12 stitches around my right eye).

Helmets are not panaceas for never having a head injury or death if you wear one and crash.
With all due respect, there are true stories about folks surviving auto crashes because they were not wearing their seat belt... doesn't mean that generally you would do much, much worse making that choice.

This has degenerated into whether helmets are a good idea... I agree with Geoff in that I disagree with those who choose not to wear 'em, but respect their choice.

I see so many in this state riding their motorcycles without helmets that it dwarfs any issues around the few cyclists who don't wear 'em.

... and frequently with BAL's above the legal limit.

[oldpotatoe]

It's not just health insurance that you need - it's long term care insurance that will come into play if one sustains a seriously debilitating injury.

I hate nanny laws, but a helmet law is one I can live with. It's the low speed fall where your hands can't help you break the fall that you are most at risk - holding the dog, or you're holding a coffee and sipping it, or your holding some liquor.

Old Potatoe, When you were flying off carriers, were you wearing a helmet? The only time I can see it being of assistance to a pilot is in ejection, but that's a low risk proposition too, I think. How many times does a pilot eject, how many times does a pilot come in contact with the canopy?

As for the lady who fell at Elephant Rock, one of the knocks on helmets and the safety panacea is that they don't completely cover all the vulnerable spots on the head. But no one would want to wear a full face helmet. One thing that's interesting is that skateboard and bmx helmets do cover more - again, lower speed falls.

.

The helmet I wore flying was more for holding earphones and a place to hook the mask than protect your noggin. In an ejection, the helmet isn't going to help you nor if you hit the ground at a very low, 165 knot, approach speed. Still gonna get killed.

Helmets are not a panacea for head injuries and should not be portrayed as such. I am against mandatory helmet laws and again, if they look like they may happen, better start with motorcycle riders.

As for skateboard/BMX..we have a skate park in Boulder, paid for by tax payers and guess what...helmets are NOT REQUIRED...AMAZING TO ME.

[oldpotatoe]

+1;
Helmets are so comfortable that to me there is no justification for not wearing one unless you have nobody in your life who cares about you.

What utter balderdash.

They just stay in your jammies, do all your work on a computer, in bed, with linen gloves on cuz ya know it's pretty dangerous 'out there', ya never know what may happen.

[BumbleBeeDave]

That's assuming that the crash with the helmet would have not resulted in your death, which is highly questionable and not testable.

Maybe not strictly testable, but I would prefer to go with the percentages and my experience when making the decision for myself.

'WEARING' a helmet has no effect on others around you, would be a 'nanny' law if created.

Maybe not a physical effect, but certainly an emotional effect on those who care about me. I agree with you that a mandatory helmet law would be a "nanny" law and useless because it's impossible to enforce.

If ya want to wear a helmet, go ahead, but this 'I don't want to hurt those around me so I wear a helmet' view, does not necessarily follow.

It follows for me, and I am the only one I can truly make a decision for,

I will continue to take mine off when going up hill, by myself, on small roads. Doesn't mean I don't care about my wife, kids, grand daughter or cats.

I never said it did or meant to imply that. I'm not sure how you may have gotten the impression that I did. You're welcome to make your own decision for you. :)

BBD

[harro]

I go helmet less when I'm climbing long mountains.

[Mr. Squirrel]

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3226/3033250244_1d9a5ebaaa_z.jpg

you have all convinced me that i need a helmet when attempting to get my wheels back from you. i do not want to leave the little ones wheeless.

mr. squirrel

[zap]

Hey rugby, did you guys wear helmets (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2001/10/011011065700.htm) when you played? just curious because I can't remember ever seeing a Rugby player wearing a helmet.





William

Wiiillllliiiiiiummmmmm, stop it.

:hello:

Oddly enough, I played second row in prep school one year. Second game my ears almost got ripped off in a scrum. Next chance I got I grabbed a set of those goofy looking ear muff thingy's.

[tiretrax]

The thing I got out of that story was that the jogger should have been wearing a helmet.
Maybe so! It certainly saved him from a serious injury/possible death.

[sloji]

I don't wear a helmet when I ride nekkid.

[christian]

i was not talking about people having accidents and NOT hitting their head. I am looking for the people who DID hit their head and survive to tell the story.. You were lucky to wake up..but maybe you didn't completely wake up.. you don't seem to have learned anything..
Sorry, but this just the dumbest post I've ever read. The logical inference of this is that every outcome is determined and every precaution is always required. By that logic, I'd stay in bed, wearing my Shoei, my leathers, a life preserver and an avalung, with my 12-gauge in my lap.

The fact is that bicycle accidents, home invasions, avalanches, and drowning on dry land are actually rare occurrences.

[oldpotatoe]

Maybe not strictly testable, but I would prefer to go with the percentages and my experience when making the decision for myself.



Maybe not a physical effect, but certainly an emotional effect on those who care about me. I agree with you that a mandatory helmet law would be a "nanny" law and useless because it's impossible to enforce.



It follows for me, and I am the only one I can truly make a decision for,



I never said it did or meant to imply that. I'm not sure how you may have gotten the impression that I did. You're welcome to make your own decision for you. :)

BBD


Some other gent mentioned that you don't wear one if nobody cares about you...I know you didn't say that but some who don't wear one are sometimes accused of being selfish..Apologize for making that leap with you.

Say it again, last time..helmets 'may' help, will never hurt, HURT. NOT a panacea for no head injuries is ya fall, may help but you may end up as a qunquat asnyway.

[velotel]

Oh my, what a wonderfully entertaining post. Truly I've had some good laughs cruising through the comments. Thus as a dedicated non-helmet wearer, I ought to at least add my two cents to keep the entertainment rolling.
Impossible to have a helmet post without someone coming out with the old organ donor option. As I recall somewhere in the judeo-christian mythology there's some sort of statement about it being better to give than receive. Thus only seems logical that bike riders of certain belief systems ought to be encouraging all riders to ride without helmets so that they can join the ranks of the givers rather than the takers. Of course at my age about all they can probably do with my organs is feed the pigs, who would no doubt be quite pleased at the addition to their diet. That could make a great t-shirt, I'd rather be a giver than a taker.
And then of course there are the children and setting the good example. Seems to me that most kids just want to do exactly the opposite of what their parents righteously tell them do. I always made my son wear a helmet (probably to avoid social pressures to be honest) while never myself wearing a helmet. I told him that as long as he was too young to make his own decision, he'd wear a helmet and when he got old enough to make his own decisions, he could do what he wanted. Meanwhile I would continue not wearing a helmet because I was old enough to make my own decision. Always thought straight up honesty was better than pretending to be someone I wasn't. And lo and behold, today he (almost) always wears a helmet. Even looks askance at me for not wearing a helmet but finally realized that I am who I am and he wasn't going to convince me to put a lid on my head.
Then there is always the old we tax payers end up having to pay for the care for the idiots who are who too dumb to wear a helmet. They must have extremely sharp eyes to be able to see the increase in their taxes/premiums every time some uninsured rider goes onto the tubes. Haven't been able to figure out why it is that so many americans (note here that yes I am an american even though I live in France) happily pay with their lives for universal warfare and get all up in arms over the idea of universal health care. Bombing people into the stone age is okay but paying for some rider's health care because he/she didn't wear a helmet is not okay. Different perspectives.
Given all this attention to attempting to save all these heads, I have to wonder what in the heck is being saved because given the political history in the states (Bush in the white house twice!), the privatized profits, socialized loss system for the financial world, and the frenzy of head wagging that goes on every time some personality of the female persuasion flashes a tittie in public, it seems perfectly reasonable to wonder just what is being saved inside those heads.
And of course there will be the post from those who risk their health and safety to save those who do something that results in a need to be saved. Need in that case for me is very much a relative word. Leave people to get their own butts out of the jam and no doubt there will be a decrease in people getting their butts in the jam. All that saving makes it easy to go out further on a limb than the person is ready to go. On the other hand all those folks needing to get saved sure to provide a nice reason for others to go do the saving that they want/like to do.
And on and on. Helmet posts, gotta love 'em. Makes a body wonder just how in the heck mankind survived all those years without plastic over the ears. Then again riders like me sure do give a lot of people solid reasons to get up on their pulpits.
And on the other side of the fence will be the comments about all the euros riding around without helmets. Which actually isn't all that true anymore, depending on the situation. In the cities, helmets in my experience are still pretty rare. For obvious reasons. City riders are going to the market, going to the post office, etc. They don't want a helmet to lug around. But in the sport riding world, recreational sports, not racing sports which is legislated, today at least in France a massive majority of riders wear helmets. At least that's what I've seen. They also look a bit askance at non-helmet wearing riders but, a big difference here, rarely does any make a comment. So sorry all my fellow bare-headed riders, the euro argument holds no more water than a helmet.

[cfox]

I don't care if people wear helmets or not, but I'd like too point out that if you don't wear one for vanity's sake, please get a clue. Take my word for it, if you are an amateur cyclist (and you are), you look like an idiot on your bike whether you're wearing a helmet or not.

[mcteague]

Like many, I rode for years without a helmet. In the old days there just were not many options. I was hit by a car while riding with just a cap, went over the hood, did a tuck and landed on my feet. Only briefly, fractured my heel, then my tailbone and smacked the back of my head on final touchdown. Thick skull absorbed the impact.

I have worn one after that. Had a crash where the front wheel turned sideways in the road heave and pile drove me, headfirst, into the pavement. I had the first generation Giro which broke in half and I was unconcsious for a few seconds. Can't be sure but I would assume the damage would have been worse had I only been wearing my cap.

So, I think they can help but are no guarantee. Today's offerings are light and pass a lot of air so I find little reason to leave it off. I've had a couple more "interactions" with cars, while wearing a helmet, and my head never touched hard enough to scratch the finish.

Still, this is an interesting read: http://bicyclesafe.com/helmets.html

Tim

[tiretrax]

"Leave people to get their own butts out of the jam and no doubt there will be a decrease in people getting their butts in the jam." - Velotel

Therein lies the problem. The person without insurance who gets in to this situation will become a societal burden as the rest of the ratepayers bear the cost.

I hope you have a very long life and many more of your wonderful rides (and post lots of pictures).

I am reminded of my father, who learned to ski after WWII. Since he was taught by French and Austrian instructors (and often skied in Europe), he took to wearing knickers and a beret, and he continued to wear them (to my embarassment). When he turned 70, he went out to Utah because 70+ skied for free. He had never had a serious fall, nor an injury while skiing. He had a bad fall and sustained a severe head injury. He was hospitalized for several days. When he returned home, his head was still severely swollen. After that, he skied with a helmet and started wearing one on his city bike rides (on paths, to the coffee shop, etc). Had the fall been while bike riding rather than skiing, he may not have had the opportunity.

[ORMojo]

That is easy to answer. For me, putting on the helmet actually serves as an every-ride reminder of the risks, so it actually increases that "safety awareness" (not "fear"). No, I am not "taking extra risk because [I] think [I'm] protected."

If you wouldn't ride without a helmet, explain to me how you aren't disconnected from that safety fear just by putting a helmet on? If you slow down because you wouldn't feel safe without the gear,
aren't you taking extra risk because you think you're protected?

-g

[ORMojo]

Not necessarily the case - why do you presume to know the OP's original intent, much less what would be "most useful" to the rest of us reading this thread? I prefer the fuller discourse.

It's really just pointless. No ones "choice" will be altered. This is a perfect case where a simple YES from the people that don't ever/ or always, put one on per the OP would be most useful. Sometimes less is more


He was no more preaching than you have several times on this thread alone.

It's not your choice....

Spare us the preaching......REALLY

[ORMojo]

First, regardless of gender (WHY do you raise that???), I'm thankful that all of my children are confident & independent enough to not care about opinions like your's, so go ahead & waste all the time you want feeling sorry . . .

Second, my younger children continue to wear helmets at all times because my wife & I still make those choices for them. My older children (20 & 23) continue to wear helmets at all times because they choose to. Neither I nor their friends think more/less of them for that choice. Although it doesn't matter to us, for your own sake, it is too bad that you do.

If you have teenage boys that will hop on a beach cruiser to cruise the hood with their friends and are willing to wear a helmet, I feel sorry for them.

Wear them when they are justified. Teach you kids the same.
==================
Originally Posted by ORMojo

I don't understand the last part of this post.

Even though, as I've previously posted, I used to ride without a helmet at times, I never rode without a helmet in the presence of my children, nor have they, to this day (current ages ranging from 2 to 23), ever been on a bike (even a balance bike) or in a bike trailer without a helmet on.

Here's what I don't understand. You said "They would never ride just to cruise if I made them wear one." I disagree. They would, if that is all they knew. My kids never knew there was any other choice until they were older, and the helmet habit was already ingrained. We always let our kids pick out their own helmet when we bought one, and to my current 2-year-old, putting on her colorful helmet is one of the things she looks forward to as part of a bike or trailer ride.

Bottom line - I'm quite certain kids can and do "learn to love" riding without the requirement to wear a helmet presenting any downside or disincentive.

[bobswire]

Oh my, what a wonderfully entertaining post. Truly I've had some good laughs cruising through the comments. Thus as a dedicated non-helmet wearer, I ought to at least add my two cents to keep the entertainment rolling.
Impossible to have a helmet post without someone coming out with the old organ donor option. As I recall somewhere in the judeo-christian mythology there's some sort of statement about it being better to give than receive. Thus only seems logical that bike riders of certain belief systems ought to be encouraging all riders to ride without helmets so that they can join the ranks of the givers rather than the takers. Of course at my age about all they can probably do with my organs is feed the pigs, who would no doubt be quite pleased at the addition to their diet. That could make a great t-shirt, I'd rather be a giver than a taker.
And then of course there are the children and setting the good example. Seems to me that most kids just want to do exactly the opposite of what their parents righteously tell them do. I always made my son wear a helmet (probably to avoid social pressures to be honest) while never myself wearing a helmet. I told him that as long as he was too young to make his own decision, he'd wear a helmet and when he got old enough to make his own decisions, he could do what he wanted. Meanwhile I would continue not wearing a helmet because I was old enough to make my own decision. Always thought straight up honesty was better than pretending to be someone I wasn't. And lo and behold, today he (almost) always wears a helmet. Even looks askance at me for not wearing a helmet but finally realized that I am who I am and he wasn't going to convince me to put a lid on my head.
Then there is always the old we tax payers end up having to pay for the care for the idiots who are who too dumb to wear a helmet. They must have extremely sharp eyes to be able to see the increase in their taxes/premiums every time some uninsured rider goes onto the tubes. Haven't been able to figure out why it is that so many americans (note here that yes I am an american even though I live in France) happily pay with their lives for universal warfare and get all up in arms over the idea of universal health care. Bombing people into the stone age is okay but paying for some rider's health care because he/she didn't wear a helmet is not okay. Different perspectives.
Given all this attention to attempting to save all these heads, I have to wonder what in the heck is being saved because given the political history in the states (Bush in the white house twice!), the privatized profits, socialized loss system for the financial world, and the frenzy of head wagging that goes on every time some personality of the female persuasion flashes a tittie in public, it seems perfectly reasonable to wonder just what is being saved inside those heads.
And of course there will be the post from those who risk their health and safety to save those who do something that results in a need to be saved. Need in that case for me is very much a relative word. Leave people to get their own butts out of the jam and no doubt there will be a decrease in people getting their butts in the jam. All that saving makes it easy to go out further on a limb than the person is ready to go. On the other hand all those folks needing to get saved sure to provide a nice reason for others to go do the saving that they want/like to do.
And on and on. Helmet posts, gotta love 'em. Makes a body wonder just how in the heck mankind survived all those years without plastic over the ears. Then again riders like me sure do give a lot of people solid reasons to get up on their pulpits.
And on the other side of the fence will be the comments about all the euros riding around without helmets. Which actually isn't all that true anymore, depending on the situation. In the cities, helmets in my experience are still pretty rare. For obvious reasons. City riders are going to the market, going to the post office, etc. They don't want a helmet to lug around. But in the sport riding world, recreational sports, not racing sports which is legislated, today at least in France a massive majority of riders wear helmets. At least that's what I've seen. They also look a bit askance at non-helmet wearing riders but, a big difference here, rarely does any make a comment. So sorry all my fellow bare-headed riders, the euro argument holds no more water than a helmet.

+1 with Velotel though I wear a helmet most of the time.
To be honest I started this thread after watching the Video of Velotel and Max.
Got me to thinking to back in the day when I rode helmet less all the time.
So I thought I'd pose the question out of curiosity.
I had no intention of starting a debate on the virtues of wearing a helmet since all are familiar with the issues.
I should have just started a poll as someone suggested.
This was me a few months ago,sans the helmet. :no:
The one below was taken around 1973. Some of us never learn.

http://i54.tinypic.com/adc3g4.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/beygjd.jpg

[witcombusa]

[QUOTE=ORMojo]Not necessarily the case - why do you presume to know the OP's original intent, much less what would be "most useful" to the rest of us reading this thread? I prefer the fuller discourse.

He was no more preaching than you have several times on this thread alone.[/QUOTE

The OP just asked who rode without a helmet. Go read it again. Helmet preachers ALWAYS need to way in on why they are so important to everyone.
YOU may prefer the fuller discourse but it's not what he (or I) asked.

Again, what exactly have I preached? That I don't care to wear one most of the time?

[William]

...Helmet preachers ALWAYS need to way in on why they are so important to everyone.
YOU may prefer the fuller discourse but it's not what he (or I) asked.

Again, what exactly have I preached? That I don't care to wear one most of the time?

Apparently not ALL Preachers wear helmets. :p

http://ih3.redbubble.net/image.9892924.3510/flat,550x550,075,f.jpg





William

[ORMojo]

Again, what exactly have I preached? That I don't care to wear one most of the time?This is a perfect case where a simple YES from the people that don't ever/ or always, put one on per the OP would be most useful. Sometimes less is more

Ummm . . . let's start with you telling us all what would be most useful for us to post.

[ORMojo]

Thank you for the laughs!

Apparently not ALL Preachers wear helmets. :p

http://ih3.redbubble.net/image.9892924.3510/flat,550x550,075,f.jpg





William

[witcombusa]

Ummm . . . let's start with you telling us all what would be most useful for us to post.

Not me...the OP

[ORMojo]

Ummm . . . let's start with you telling us all what would be most useful for us to post.
Not me...the OP
OK, lets recap . . .

The OP asked/posted (in its entirety):
Does anyone here ride helmet less? I admit I still occasionally ride helmet less when I know I'm going on "leisurely ride" or heading downtown on a errand. It took me a long time to accept wearing helmet having been riding since the 70's.
The original OP's question was clearly accompanied by their own qualified circumstances providing the first response to his own question. This was never a "yes/no" post from the start. The OP's original post clearly provided the opportunity for all subsequent responses to provide circumstances/qualifiers/etc., just as the OP did.

The OP later stated (187 posts into the thread) I had no intention of starting a debate on the virtues of wearing a helmet since all are familiar with the issues. I should have just started a poll as someone suggested.

The OP admits a different intent in retrospect; you chide most of us for not adhering to revisionist history.

[William]

Hey people, wear what you like, or don't. Either way, enjoy your ride. :)


http://feathersproject.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/crash-helmet-nigeria.jpg






William

[tiretrax]

Maybe we should change the subject - who runs stop signs?

[William]

Maybe we should change the subject again - who rides naked?







William :p

[ORMojo]

Maybe we should change the subject again - who rides naked? William :p
At least annually in Portland & Eugene!

[Bob Loblaw]

Only on my trainer in the dark while watching Golden Girls reruns.

Maybe we should change the subject again - who rides naked?







William :p

[cetuximab]

As helmets were becoming popular people would die from a skull fracture and intracranial hemorrhage. This was pre cat scanners. The Drs had no idea if someone had ICH. Now the standard (lawyer scared) ER doc scans everyone that has a ground level fall, neuro symptoms or not.

Helmets do a great job preventing skull fracture. Helmets spread the load over a larger area, making the blow of hitting the ground or a rock less likely fracture your skull.

The brain injury that debilitates is not the skull fracture. It is the shear injury (diffuse axonal injury) caused by the deceleration. I do not believe helmets prevent deceleration shearing injuries. Airbags and seatbelts allow you to decelerate over a longer time. Crumple zones allow the passenger compartment and the passengers to decelerate over a longer time.

I do not believe the testing for helmets measures changes in acceleration with and without helmets. The helmet I was wearing in my crash cracked. It did not crumple or get thinner in the impact zone to suggest it slowed the deceleration.

People decide not to ride because they think biking is dangerous. This is a tragedy. I think the risks of biking are much smaller than the health risks from diabetes, heart disease, and strokes.

So, I am fine with seatbelt laws. I am not OK with helmets laws.

In answer to the OP, I always wear a helmet mtn biking. But sometimes don't when returning a movie or biking to the grocery store.

[Elefantino]

Miranda Richardson died from a head injury sustained during a low speed fall
So did Andrei Kivilev.

[Earl Gray]

Maybe we should change the subject - who runs stop signs?


Better yet, who runs stop sign while jogging without a helmet?

[harryblack]

NEVER. You race with a helmet, you train with a helmet.

I admit I still occasionally ride helmet less when I know I'm going on "leisurely ride" or heading downtown on a errand.
It took me a long time to accept wearing helmet having been riding since the 70's.

[CunegoFan]

The brain injury that debilitates is not the skull fracture. It is the shear injury (diffuse axonal injury) caused by the deceleration. I do not believe helmets prevent deceleration shearing injuries. Airbags and seatbelts allow you to decelerate over a longer time. Crumple zones allow the passenger compartment and the passengers to decelerate over a longer time.

I do not believe the testing for helmets measures changes in acceleration with and without helmets. The helmet I was wearing in my crash cracked. It did not crumple or get thinner in the impact zone to suggest it slowed the deceleration.

The Wikipedia article on bicycle helmets briefly addresses this and has a couple of citations. From the article:


Some helmet liners may be too stiff to be effective. Standards require the use of headforms heavier and more rigid than the human head; these are more capable of crushing foam than is the human head.[16][17] In real accidents,[18]

very little crushing of the liner foam was usually evident... What in fact happens in a real crash impact is that the human head deforms elastically on impact. The standard impact attenuation test making use of a solid headform does not consider the effect of human head deformation with the result that all acceleration attenuation occurs in compression of the liner. Since the solid headform is more capable of crushing helmet padding, manufacturers have had to provide relatively stiff foam in the helmet so that it would pass the impact attenuation test... As the results in Figure 15 illustrate, the child skull is far from being solid and will deform readily on impact. This fact is well known in the medical field and is largely why a child who has had a rather modest impact to the head is usually admitted to hospital for observation. The substantial elastic deformation of the child head that can occur during impact can result in quite extensive diffuse brain damage.

In real accidents, while broken helmets are common, it is extremely unusual to see any helmet that has compressed foam and thus may have performed as intended.[16]

Another source of field experience is our experience with damaged helmets returned to customer service... I collected damaged infant/toddler helmets for several months in 1995. Not only did I not see bottomed out helmets, I didn’t see any helmet showing signs of crushing on the inside.

[gdw]

Yes. I don't wear a helmet when running errands around town and on long mountain climbs on hot summer days. I also believe in personal choice and find it amusing, and kind of pathetic, that so many people feel that they need to impose their views or others. Live and let live.

[William]

At least annually in Portland & Eugene!

Yeah, I remember the season end at PIR. Almost always had a naked lap after the end of the last race. :D





William

[rugbysecondrow]

Not at first. When I started playing in the 1990's, no helmet, just wrap and tape on my ears and around my head. No padding, but secure enough that my ear wouldn't get ripped from my head, which did happen with my buddy when a cleat got caught within the ear lob and ripped it out. Folks did't know as much about concussions in the 1990's as they do now, at least the trickle down wasn't there. Folks started wearing shoulder pads and helmets (essentially just think neoprene) in the early 2000's. I wore the helmet a little but not the shoulder pads. I never liked the helmet because it seems to impair my vision when it rolled forward over my eyes, my It also seems to hinder my hearing because the helmet covered my ears. Frankly, I just couldn't get used to it so I quit it and gave it to a friend. In an odd way, I felt more safe without it than with it.

Anecdotally, I noticed that the ruggers who wore pads would have worse form, play more recklessly and would actually hurt themselves more. Helmets in rugby had some protection, but not against anything truly violent. Think leather helmets in football, that is what we are talking about. Folks also would get separated shoulders and neck injuries because their form and tacking would be compromised. Not sure if this was a throw back to their football days where a helmet and shoulder pads meant more.

With that said, I can think of three instances where I know I had a concussion but didn't say anything. Once, I was knocked out during a goal line tackle, good form but we both just put out heads in the same spot and we both woke up on the ground looking at one another dazed. The third was the same situation. The second, I was out on my feet...think a boxer bouncing from rope to rope trying to stay upright, but walking almost diagonally and with out purpose. I had the sense to eventually take a knee, fiddle with my shoelace, then rejoined the fray. My mouthpiece fell out and I actually cracked a tooth in pieces, but didn't realize it until after the match. This part is not unusual, I felt almost no pain during a match due to adrenaline only to leave the bar limping, sore and barely able to walk. Anyway, you NEVER took yourself out of a game, you were taken out of the game by the coach or the other team, but to opt out or leave on your own, nope.

We weren't very bright though, had so little medical care on the field I once got a split head, a little bit of gauze, prewrap and ductape and I was back out there. If somebody was unable to get up, an ambulance got called. This was college.

I will find out someday what impact this all has. If I play again this spring, which I might, a helmet will be a thought. Not sure what I will choose.

Cheers.



Hey rugby, did you guys wear helmets (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2001/10/011011065700.htm) when you played? just curious because I can't remember ever seeing a Rugby player wearing a helmet.





William


Wiiillllliiiiiiummmmmm, stop it.

:hello:

Oddly enough, I played second row in prep school one year. Second game my ears almost got ripped off in a scrum. Next chance I got I grabbed a set of those goofy looking ear muff thingy's.

[Jaq]

Dr. Robert Atkins fell while walking outside his office and died from head injuries. I don't know if there is a memorial cross in New York where he fell, but if only he had been wearing a helmet while walking...

Very probably urban myth, but according to a couple of surgeons I occasionally ride with (both of whom wear helmets), the major factor that killed Atkins was the hemorrhaging that couldn't be controlled because of the blood thinners he'd been taking to deal with his elevated cholesterol resulting from a diet high in proteins and fats (The Atkins diet).

Again, probably urban myth.

[rugbysecondrow]

First, if you don't wear a helmet, I don't care. Your wife, mother, son, father might, but not me. If you die, you die and it really doesn't impact me. What is funny though is the insecurity of many folks who don't wear a helmet. Why feel so adversarial snippy about something you feel so confident in? I wear one for my reasons, you don't for yours, why be a jerk about it either way?

The truth is that some folks here care more than me because they do have to deal with the ramifications. They are first responders, physicians, fortunate survivors etc. It means that they have a unique perspective and that they care what happens.

I also don't by the logic that because somebody might have died doing X, taking precautions doing Y are nonsense. We all assess risk and manage it relative to what we have to risk. I might have more to lose than somebody else, or maybe I value what I have more than others or maybe and I just a sissy-nancy-pants-sucker who wants to wear a helmet. Regardless, precautions taken for activity Y are unrelated to activities X.


"The lady doth protest to much, me thinks" comes to mind.