Best possible cross/touring brake set up(?)

[Robbos]

I’m putting the question out to my fellow forumites regarding the best brake set up on a touring/cross bike with canti bosses. I currently have Avid shorty 6 with Koolstop pads and a Salsa cable hanger, with Campy Ergos pulling the trigger. The geometry of the hanger height, pad spacing, etc. has been adjusted to maximize power and feel, but I am still not satisfied with the level of brake power. Feel is fine, but they don’t have the overall power I desire, especially during loaded touring. They pale in comparison to my v-brakes or even my Ultegra road brakes.

The possibilities :
Cantilever : Avid Shorty Ultimate- Would they really be any more powerful than the Avid Shorty 6’s?
-Pauls Touring- Nice, but pricey. But would they really add any power?
-IRD cantis- Roughly same profile as Pauls, but cheaper. Not necessarily a good cheaper from what I’ve seen…
- New Shimano cross brakes. Look nice, but I doubt they add any power, plus I prefere v-brake pad/cartridges.

V-brakes
-Drop bar specific, like TRP minis. My friend has a pair of CX9’s and although they have power, they also exhibit the awful trait of being mushy and imprecise- you cannot even tell the moment the pad hits the rim. I won’t give up this level of ‘feel’ for power. Perhaps the CX8.4’s better mate with Campy Ergos, but I’m skeptical that it would remove the mushiness…
-V-brakes with travel cams. Aside from Travel Agent cams tendencies to mangle/cut through brake cables over time, it seems to be the most powerful option this side of disc brakes. The only other downside, to my mind, is that they’re unsightly on a nice steel touring rig. Any one have experience running v-brakes with linkages like XTR’s or XT’s with canti bosses spaced narrower than an MTB?

What are your thoughts?

Robbos

[tannhauser]

Travel agent - the low tech solution to hi tech problems.

Super cheap too.

[fourflys]

I have the Paul Touring on my Casseroll and really like them... plenty of power and modulation feels great to me...

[sg8357]

The Shimano CX-70s are for the new 7900 series levers,
they pull more cable than Ergos.

The Avid Ultimates are low profile, but not as low profile as the Shorty6s,
with the shortest usable straddle the 6s will still apply more force.

When I had an Atlantis, it had Paul Touring front & rear, they don't
feel like dual pivots, so you may want to look at Tektro XL reach
dual pivots. I used those on tour a couple times, more flex than
short reach brakes, but decent modulation and good power.

Brazed on Mafac center pulls win, but require a dedicated bike.

[Chance]

V-brakes
-Drop bar specific, like TRP minis. My friend has a pair of CX9’s and although they have power, they also exhibit the awful trait of being mushy and imprecise- you cannot even tell the moment the pad hits the rim. I won’t give up this level of ‘feel’ for power. Perhaps the CX8.4’s better mate with Campy Ergos, but I’m skeptical that it would remove the mushiness…
....snip......

What are your thoughts?

Robbos
The main problem is they have too much leverage, or some would say "power", for the levers being used. They call them minis but really aren't that short. Certainly not short enough to offset cable pull from road levers most of the time. It's doubtful in my opinion other minis would feel much different if installed on same frameset with same levers.

[veloduffer]

On my Kish cross/tourer, I use the TRP CX-9s in the front (eliminates shudder) and Cane Creek cantis in the rear, which is good for modulation. You get the benefits of both types of brakes. :beer:

[bobswire]

If you can find a set Dia Compe 987 or 986, are great next to Pauls. IMO

http://i44.tinypic.com/jshw03.jpg

[GRAVELBIKE]

How much tire/fender clearance do you need? If it's quite a bit, and you want to use v-brakes, the brake arms will be a length that requires long-pull levers (ex: Tektro RL-520). Linkage-type v-brakes such as XTR and XT have still require long-pull levers due to the arms' length.

With Campy levers/shifters, you should stick with 85mm or shorter v-brakes. You can run 90mm arms, but be prepared to run the pads very close to the rimes. The newer Shimano shifters/levers pull more cable, and work better with the longer v-brakes such as the CX9.

I've found that Campy levers/shifters work quite well with Shimano's BR-R550 canti's. Not as good as v-brakes or discs, but better than wide-profile brakes such as the Tektro CR-720.

My bikes are set up with mechanical discs, v-brakes, and canti's. I could not find a drop-bar lever/v-brake combo that I liked, so I converted that bike to flat bars and used NOS Avid Speed-Dial levers. The disc-equipped bike has stand-alone Campy Record levers (bar-end shifters), and the canti-equipped bike uses Centaur levers/shifters with Shimano BR-R550 brakes.

[Cat3roadracer]

I have a set of carbon TRP's on one of my cross bikes. They are impressive. Very adjustable and very grabby. I would highly recommend.

[Robbos]

Thanks for all the feedback. Does anyone have experience with the Travel Agents? I'm curious with my ergo levers and v-brakes if there will be decent modulation, or if the action is more on/off.
Thoughts?

Looks like my XTR's are too wide for the brake bosses, time to start trolling for a pair of Avid Ultimate V-brakes...

[Kontact]

Why not use V-Brake compatible aero levers? I think a couple companies make them.

[Jawn P]

-Drop bar specific, like TRP minis. My friend has a pair of CX9’s and although they have power, they also exhibit the awful trait of being mushy and imprecise- you cannot even tell the moment the pad hits the rim. I won’t give up this level of ‘feel’ for power. Perhaps the CX8.4’s better mate with Campy Ergos, but I’m skeptical that it would remove the mushiness…


No firsthand experience with Campy, but the 8.4 are the model designed with the correct pull ratio for Campy and SRAM levers.

[fourflys]

No firsthand experience with Campy, but the 8.4 are the model designed with the correct pull ratio for Campy and SRAM levers.

I had the CX9's on my Van Dessel with Campy 10 and thought they felt great... I can only guess teh 8.4's would be even better... they felt so much better than the CR720's I had prior... I will say though the Paul Touring feel really great with Rival on my steel-forked Casseroll...

[flydhest]

one issue responders may want to consider, which I missed in my first reading of the OP, was that the question is about loaded touring.

My general view when people talk about more powerful brakes is, "wazzajiggy, huh???" On any bike, I can skid a rear or lift the rear wheel, depending on which brake I am applying. That means that all I care about is modulation, not power, since I have never found a brake with insufficient power.

Loaded touring is different. I haven't done it, but have done some tandeming, and there, power is a real consideration.

It is also very possible everybody was already aware of this and I just spent time typing when I should have been eating lunch, so sorry.

[Chance]

The difference between 84 mm and 90 mm arms doesn't sound that great to me. Fork dimensional tolerances could make a greater difference.

If you've only tried it on a friends bike (granted you didn't like the feel) and it's not too much cost maybe you should try one on your own bike. It may feel different.

[Bradford]

I've run Shimano Cantis and Avid Shortys in the past, have a V Brake on the back now with a Travel Agent and a Paul up front.

Shimano Cantis: Worked well, I still don't know why I took them off
Avid: I did not like them at all
V Brake with Travel Agent: Works perfectly
Paul: Good brake, a pain to adjust

If I had the V brake on back and my original Shimano Cantis up front, I think I would be happy.

[Robbos]

Thanks Flydhest, indeed its the touring factor that makes the power important. The brakes work well in most instances, but heading down a mountain with 70 pounds of gear, well as Scottie would say, I need more power!

I thought I'd mention that I do have Salsa extra wide staddle cable carriers installed- I cannot say enough about how they improve the feel and power of low profile cantilevers with drop bar levers. I believe Problem Solvers and Pauls also make them. Worth while.