OT: Computers

[jpw]

Before selling my desktop computers I need to wipe all usage data from the OS and hard drive. What's the best way to do that? I've heard of hard drive shredder software that can be used to completely erase everything, but I want the installed OS to remain intact. I'm not quite sure how to successfully 'scrub' the equipment clean.

Any recommendations welcome.

Thanks, Jason.

[forrestw]

Before selling my desktop computers I need to wipe all usage data from the OS and hard drive. What's the best way to do that? I've heard of hard drive shredder software that can be used to completely erase everything, but I want the installed OS to remain intact. I'm not quite sure how to successfully 'scrub' the equipment clean.

Any recommendations welcome.

Thanks, Jason.
Depending on what you mean by clean really you can't, if you want to leave the system directories untouched then you could go over your home directory using one or another program that would re-write the files with random data but this still leaves the directory structure intact on the drive so obscuring the names of the files you used to have on the machine isn't going to happen without a full disk wipe.

Re-installing the OS would be the better way to go about this.

EDIT Also, note that simply overwriting files fails against a reasonably determined adversary because the OS moves data around on the disk as a routine part of operation and caches both file and memory data on disk.

If you want to be real sure your CC#s aren't on the drive, wipe the entire drive and re-install the OS from media.

[sg8357]

At the old shop we would take the drives to the shooting range, secure disposal protocol via 45acp.

I never heard of a drive scrub app that would leave the OS, data recovery
services can retrieve some info even from scrubbed drives.

[jpw]

Thanks for your replies fellas.

I want to ensure that no bank or credit card numbers, or passwords to online accounts have been stored somewhere on the systems that I, as a tech dullard, am not aware of but that some whizz kid could recover and then use to cause me untold trouble.

I would happily gut the computers, but I prefer the idea of them being reused. I don't like throwing away fully functioning stuff.

I'm just wanting to cleanse my data from the stuff before passing it on to someone else.

Cheers.

[xjoex]

The best way to actually "wipe" the data is to boot off of a CD like DBAN: http://www.dban.org/ that lets you actually wipe the data by overwriting everything on there.

By reinstalling the OS or even deleting the files they are not actually gone. The files and data is there, but the OS has marked them as deleted.

I have used DBAN a bunch and it works.

-Joe

[staggerwing]

If a commercial system (HP, Dell, etc.) you may be able to rip an operating system backup to CD. Then, run DBAN, and re-install the operating system. Whoever gets it next will appreciate a clean install.

Caution, with DBAN, make absolutely certain there is no network attached storage, or attached USB drives; it will find and scrub those too.

[slowandsteady]

Another option is to simply replace the existing HDD with a new blank one and install your OS from scratch. Then go ahead and reuse your old HDD in your new computer...

Pros: saves you the 8 hours of reinstalling all your programs and files and data etc.

Cons: You get the same old jammed up, maxed out, messy drive with all the old gunk in it. If it's clean and running well, then no real down side.

Notes: if you keep the old drive you can always do a clean install after backing up all your data that way you have a like-new drive and no data worries to the new owner of your old computer.

[forrestw]

At the old shop we would take the drives to the shooting range, secure disposal protocol via 45acp.

I never heard of a drive scrub app that would leave the OS, data recovery
services can retrieve some info even from scrubbed drives.
Depends on who your adversary is. big chunks of disk surface retain data, secure disposal = physical shredding and / or incineration.

[fkelly]

An older hard drive probably has a market value well south of $100. You (and the new owner) would be better off if you just removed it and stored it (or reuse it in another computer if it's reasonably current) and let the new user put in a new hard drive and install his own operating system.

While a new owner is probably not going to use a data recovery tool to find your "deleted" data, the only way to be sure is to not pass the hard drive on.

[rbtmcardle]

+1000

At our office we actually cut the drives in half on the waterjet.. even data recovery experts say it is nearly impossible to recover data if you mis align the actual discs in a multiple disc hard drive.


An older hard drive probably has a market value well south of $100. You (and the new owner) would be better off if you just removed it and stored it (or reuse it in another computer if it's reasonably current) and let the new user put in a new hard drive and install his own operating system.

While a new owner is probably not going to use a data recovery tool to find your "deleted" data, the only way to be sure is to not pass the hard drive on.

[biker72]

At the old shop we would take the drives to the shooting range, secure disposal protocol via 45acp.

I never heard of a drive scrub app that would leave the OS, data recovery
services can retrieve some info even from scrubbed drives.
The 45ACP method is 100% effective... :)

Where I work our IT guy destroys any hard drive taken out of a computer for an upgrade.

[Vinci]

DBAN works well if you have to keep the disk usable.

Honestly, though, if you have data on that disk that you know is valuable, give some real thought to physically shredding it. That disk has VERY little value as a storage device (given the cost of new disks) and immense value to you if the data on it were to fall into the wrong person's hands.

[Dekonick]

If you scrub a drive, overwrite it several times. Even then, it is possible to retrieve data if you REALLY want to... (it will cost $$$)

I don't sell any machines with old drives in them. I take them out, and take a hammer to them, after I drill several holes first. Excessive? You bet - but it is fun. Figure any drive you have now is worth nothing - they fail after ~5 years anyway so may as well just get a cheap replacement (heck buy someone else's used drive and install the OS - you don't care if someone wants to look for their old data... just yours!)

Good luck!

[Jaq]

At the old shop we would take the drives to the shooting range, secure disposal protocol via 45acp.

I never heard of a drive scrub app that would leave the OS, data recovery
services can retrieve some info even from scrubbed drives.

Personally, I prefer the 12 gauge protocol, though it can be a bit hard on the environment. Alternatively, I have used the Nine Pound Hammer protocol. In both cases, I've retrieved the bits and disposed of them properly.

I haven't sold a desktop recently, but I have sold both my old laptops, and did so without including the HDD. The price of storage these days is dropping through the floor, so it's nothing for a buyer to pick up a decent computer and toss in a new HDD for a few bucks.

In the mean time, I use an external HDD caddy that'll accept both desktop and laptop HDDs and connects to my PC via USB. I wipe the drives of any OS and use them exclusively as back-up data storage.

Here's a perfectly good HDD dock (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817707171)

[SEABREEZE]

There is such a thing as forenzic engineers to dicet and find what you thought was gone or for that matter, everything in the unit...

When cell phones and computers were confiscated in the middle east, they were brought to such facilities.

[Louis]

If you're really concerned about data on the hard drive the only 100% safe option is to remove it, take it apart so you can get the disk itself, then destroy that. (Plus you get to remove and play with the super-strong magnets that are in there.)

At work we take the disks to a local smelter and drop them into huge vats of molten steel. We used to sand-blast the oxide off the disk, but don't do that anymore.

[xjoex]

DoD uses degaussers. It is neat to see, they drop a drive in, a few moments later the drive is popped like a kernel of corn.
http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/easycdduplication_2194_8282240
http://www.datadev.com/degausser-ts1.html

But realistically for home since you want to reuse the drive. Use DBAN and go from there. No one wants YOUR data that much. For company/sensitive info, physical destruction is best.

When I get rid of a computer/hard drive at my house I drill a hole through the drive.

-Joe

[gunder]

I agree with the people that say to just replace the drive. HD's are pretty cheap now days, put in a brand new drive and don't look back. :beer:

As an alternative I guess you could buy a used drive off eBay/craigslist. It won't be your info on the used drive.

[luigi22]

it's what i've done - gut the drive. they're cheap now, and it's the highest level of security for you

[slowpoke]

I think we got carried away here. As forrestw and xjoex mentioned, the easiest way would be to wipe the drive with DBAN, then reinstall the OS--provided you have the install/restore disks. This will deter the vast majority of thieves.

Taking a shotgun to the old HD and replacing it with a new one may be fun, but I think jpw (the OP) doesn't want to put anymore money into a computer he's probably gonna sell for $250 on Craigslist.

[Dekonick]

Just an example of a used drive on fleabay...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Western-Digital-160GB-SATA-WD1600AAJS-22WAA0-/330673153450?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4cfda7e5aa

You can pick up a 60 gig HD for next to nothing... enough to install the OS and call it a day.