Cycling in Cuba... experiences/recommendations please.

[rain dogs]

We just jumped on some pretty nicely priced tickets to Cuba as it's been a cycling tour destination that my partner and I have been eyeing for quite sometime.

Her and I want to see the best cycling destinations/landscapes the island has to offer, as well as not miss out on the historical/cultural mains.

We're not the sit on the beach type and are planning a tour of the length on the island from east to west.

We only have 2 weeks and aim to do 100-125km a day max, so we'll need to take advantage of Cuba's extensive rail (potentially bus) system to skip some of the "lesser-lights"

This is where we're looking for experience and advice.

We've been told not to miss the South Eastern coastline road, nor the Northwestern w/ the Viñales Valley.

So, what do we skip knowing time isn't infinite? Are there parts in the middle 7-8 provinces that aren't as worth it to spend time in and instead train through?

Thanks!

EDIT: Oh, the best we could do was fly into Holguin airport and out of Varadero airport to ease the transfers.

[mistermo]

Are you an American citizen? If so, how are you pulling this off? I'd really like to go to Cuba, but can't figure out how to get past the State Dept. and still get back into the US.

It's not cycling, but I read this book of a guy who motorcycled around Cuba.

http://www.amazon.com/Mi-Moto-Fidel-Motorcycling-Adventure/dp/0792279611

[phcollard]

Are you an American citizen? If so, how are you pulling this off? I'd really like to go to Cuba, but can't figure out how to get past the State Dept. and still get back into the US.

Yes I was surprised to see such a question here. No mean to go OT but I have still to understand why US citizens aren't allowed to travel to Cuba. Is it the Cubans who don't want you or the USA that don't want you to go there? Sorry for the stupid question and I don't mean to offend anyone. Heck I'm not even Canadian :D

[Delpo]

There was an article some time ago by Bicycle magazine on Cuba cycling. It was pretty cool and informative.

[veggieburger]

If you fly out of Canada, it's not that difficult. The Cuban border control does not stamp your passport since they are aware of the limitations placed on American travelers. They issue you a tourist card that must be kept in your passport and on your person. When you leave, you give it back to them.

Geographically, I believe the majority of the good climbs are in the east. I have friends who stay in Holguin, then do day trips out to good destinations.

Be sure to take an abundance of spare parts, since even tubes can be hard to come by. Leave your old tires/tubes/gatorade powder/chains/consumables when you go, and you'll have friends the next time you visit.

[rice rocket]

Be sure to take an abundance of spare parts, since even tubes can be hard to come by. Leave your old tires/tubes/gatorade powder/chains/consumables when you go, and you'll have friends the next time you visit.

That's interesting you say that. I watched a documentary piece last month on how the Cubans are maintaining their 50+ year old cars. The trade embargos on the country are really hurting the people. It's often casting new parts and/or making body pieces with sheet metal and a hammer.

I can only imagine someone with a chain, making new plates and pins by hand. :eek:

[rain dogs]

Yes, I'm Canadian and my partner Spanish so we don't have many problems with going.

For Americans who want to go, I think you can fly out of Cancun as well, but I don't know all the details of the legalities between your countries.

I'll check out that book... if I can find it. I don't think I'd buy it because the motorcycle/bicycle conversion is only half-on most times.

We've researched quite extensively on the "demands" (food and water, supplies, repairs alt. transport transfers etc.) of riding in Cuba, what we're trying to do is cull the list of destinations, in the most part because of those "demands" and make it a little easier on ourselves.

[mistermo]

While I mentioned the book, I'm not sure I recommend it. The author seems to brag about his conquests of easy Cuban women who lack sexual inhibitions. There were interesting parts and one got a feel for the Cuban culture, society and hardships. However, it was a mediocre book. Not bad, but not that great either.

For the person who asked, as Americans, we're officially prevented from traveling to Cuba for pleasure travel reasons. Bush2 relaxed this a bit and allowed academics and maybe medical personnel to go. Interestingly, their medical system blows ours away. They don't need our doctors. I think OB just relaxed rules a bit further, but officially we still are not permitted to go for fun.

From the book and other sources, I know of people who have gone to Cancun, then over and back. However, I'm told that when you return to the US that a Cuba stamp on your passport will create problems for you.

Yes, "the land of the free" is the one who prevents Cuban travel, not Cuba.

I'd like to see Cuba in it's 'unspoiled' condition, before it becomes the 51st state.

[rain dogs]

While I mentioned the book, I'm not sure I recommend it. The author seems to brag about his conquests of easy Cuban women who lack sexual inhibitions. There were interesting parts and one got a feel for the Cuban culture, society and hardships. However, it was a mediocre book. Not bad, but not that great either.

OK, great! Thanks for the honest feedback about the book. Yeah, let's just say reading about some dudes conquests of women is not high on my list of qualities of a good book.

Yeah, we're excited to go as well and see Cuba as it is today. I was just reading (elsewhere) about the fact that it is the only country to ever meet the WWF definition of "sustainable" - that is: less than 1.8hectares/capita ecological footprint and over .8 human development index in the same year.

http://hdr.undp.org/en/media/HDR06-complete.pdf
http://assets.panda.org/downloads/living_planet_report.pdf

Cuba did it in 2006, but has since slipped in HDI to ~.78, I think.

If people are interested in this topic: Touring in Cuba... we're going to be blogging it quite extensively as with our other tours. So, follow along.

Find that here:

http://cimacoppirides.wordpress.com/category/2012-cima-coppi-tour/

Thanks all!

[Chance]

For the person who asked, as Americans, we're officially prevented from traveling to Cuba for pleasure travel reasons. Bush2 relaxed this a bit and allowed academics and maybe medical personnel to go. Interestingly, their medical system blows ours away. They don't need our doctors. I think OB just relaxed rules a bit further, but officially we still are not permitted to go for fun.

You are not serious? If by "ours" you mean the US of A you must be kidding, right?

[Chance]

Yeah, we're excited to go as well and see Cuba as it is today. I was just reading about the fact that it is the only country to ever meet the WWF definition of "sustainable" - that is: less than 1.8hectares/capita ecological footprint and over .8 human development index in the same year.

Maybe that can happen in places that have no industry or means of producing much of anything people need other than basic food (if that). Fortunately the climate there is very mild and they can get by without heat or air conditioning, and with very little transportation of any kind beyond walking. They don't even have electricity much of the time.

[mistermo]

You are not serious? If by "ours" you mean the US of A you must be kidding, right?

Like you, I was incredulous too. Then I investigated. For many, it's heresy to suggest that America isn't #1 at everything. Cuba for all it's problems, for all it's poverty, has a pretty good health care system. Castro, with all his faults, did one thing right.

[mistermo]

OK, great! Thanks for the honest feedback about the book. Yeah, let's just say reading about some dudes conquests of women is not high on my list of qualities of a good book.

Yeah, we're excited to go as well and see Cuba as it is today.

It sounds like you'll have female company, but please post up your experiences with the locals. He made it sound like Cuban latinas' sexual mores disappeared along with the Russian missiles.

[Chance]

Like you, I was incredulous too. Then I investigated. For many, it's heresy to suggest that America isn't #1 at everything. Cuba for all it's problems, for all it's poverty, has a pretty good health care system. Castro, with all his faults, did one thing right.
Sorry, don't buy it. My dog is getting better treatment today at a vet clinic than many Cubans get from their hospitals.

Cubans can be smart and have a good education system that has created an abundance of doctors. But they have very little to work with. Very few drugs and very little equipment. Certainly almost no high-tech equipment compared to Americans that can afford medical services.

Many studies always end up comparing available treatment for the very poorest. In Cuba's socialized medical system the very poorest do get better treatment than our very poorest, but on average it isn't even close.

[rain dogs]

Maybe that can happen in places that have no industry or means of producing much of anything people need other than basic food (if that). Fortunately the climate there is very mild and they can get by without heat or air conditioning, and with very little transportation of any kind beyond walking. They don't even have electricity much of the time.

Have you been to Cuba?, because if so, I'd be interested in hearing your experiences.

However, your three posts above don't seem without a heavy dose of bias/political orientation. I didn't create the measures, and I'm not interested in hearing a back and forth in order for you to keep your paradigms in place. Maybe some exploration on what is and isn't "sustainable" is needed.

I understand Cuba is polarizing, and political, and if you have direct travel experience to share, then have at it. If you're here to start pro-America bash Cuba back and forth (or vice-versa), that's your right, just don't do it in my thread.

I'm going there to bike tour and I'm here to talk about bike touring.

This is Moa, Cuba, btw... one of the towns we may be riding through/near:
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6097/6331963902_ee7d01f5fc.jpg

[firerescuefin]

Look forward to following your blog. Very cool adventure :beer:

[Aaron O]

To the person who asked why the embargo exists...it has to do with Castro nationalizing Cuba and taking over some American industries as well as the legacy of cold war US-USSR politics. The main reason now is that the Cuban exile community in Florida has a lot of clout and power...they've pushed for keeping the embargo in place (except that they're allowed to contact and -I think- visit relatives).

[Chance]

Have you been to Cuba?, because if so, I'd be interested in hearing your experiences.

However, your three posts above don't seem without a heavy dose of bias/political orientation. I didn't create the measures, and I'm not interested in hearing a back and forth in order for you to keep your paradigms in place. Maybe some exploration on what is and isn't "sustainable" is needed.

I understand Cuba is polarizing, and political, and if you have direct travel experience to share, then have at it. If you're here to start pro-America bash Cuba back and forth (or vice-versa), that's your right, just don't do it in my thread.

I'm going there to bike tour and I'm here to talk about bike touring.

This is Moa, Cuba, btw... one of the towns we may be riding through/near:
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6097/6331963902_ee7d01f5fc.jpg
Yes and no.

OK, got your point. If you wish to state whatever you want and have no one question anything by all means go ahead. It’s not my intent to become political about Cuba or any other country. Certainly won’t get into a pissing contest with you over things you’ve only read about. Talking about bias, have you ever checked the source of many of those books?

Anyway, some of the comments already made about Cuban women are absolutely insulting to that nation. Apparently the writer doesn’t understand that when countries are extremely poor it drives desperate people to take desperate measures. One of them is prostitution. Yeah, for the price of a nice dinner you may be able to buy yourself a young good-looking woman. Some won’t call it prostitution since actual cash isn’t exchanged. It’s easier to blame it on changed sexual mores.

Out of here. It’s all yours. Let us know what you find out in person after you get back. Be safe and have a good time.

[mistermo]

Sorry, don't buy it. My dog is getting better treatment today at a vet clinic than many Cubans get from their hospitals.
I don't doubt for a second that your dog receives better care than many Americans too.

Cubans can be smart and have a good education system that has created an abundance of doctors. But they have very little to work with. Very few drugs and very little equipment. Certainly almost no high-tech equipment compared to Americans that can afford medical services.
I work in the health care industry. There is sigificant data to show that access to care is the #1 predictor of increased health. The Cubans may lack CT Scanners, but they have access that we Americans can only dream of.

Many studies always end up comparing available treatment for the very poorest. In Cuba's socialized medical system the very poorest do get better treatment than our very poorest, but on average it isn't even close.
I'm always interested in these things. You seem sure that the avg American has, on average, better health care than the average Cuban. I'll acknowledge that I'm not an expert on this, but I've read a bit and am interested in the subject. If you have any data to support your claim, please let me know.

However, I don't want to hijack the OP's thread and my apologies to him for going this far.

[mistermo]

Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts.
Have a great trip! I'll be following your blog with great interest. I hope to make it there someday too.

[veggieburger]

Cubans have excellent healthcare...in the knowledge department. Their doctors are brilliant and well-trained. However, they lack many of the supplies needed for effective medical care, and from what I have heard (no experience here, just hearsay), greasing a Dr.'s palms will get you to the front of the line much faster, wink wink nudge nudge.

Education is similiar. Cubans have the opportunity to be very well educated at no cost, but you need to write your notes small, because lined paper isn't as ubiquitous as it is over here.

[phcollard]

I visited Cuba several times. Granted it wasn't really an in-depth tour of the country but from I have seen Cubans are quite happy people, they live simply and seem to enjoy life as it is given to them. The country is beautiful and very safe for tourists.

What I found amazing is the step back in time that you get for a few hours flight! It's like going back 30 or 40 years ago. There are not many cars in the countryside, almost none in fact, people have quite basic and very small houses (look for this one you'll be amazed... most houses will be smaller than your garage). But it does not feel like poverty, it's just the way they live. They are always outside anyways. Cubans are also more community oriented than here in North America.

As for education I had a Cuban colleague for several years at the office and she was an excellent programmer. She learned it all in Cuba and in the former USSR (apparently it's easy for Cuban to go study there). True she told me that computer equipment in Cuba is quite basic but really she was good :)

So basically it's gonna be a travel full of surprises for you, and a beautiful one. Be prepared for the unexpected and as another member said "bring tubes"! Some roads are in poor condition, that is when there is actually a road. Have a nice ride! :)

[phcollard]

Hey by the way what are these jerseys found on your site? Do you make or import them? They look cool!

http://cimacoppi.bigcartel.com/products

There is a huge fan base of the merino jersey here. Tell us about them! :banana:

[BumbleBeeDave]

Speaking as a Mod, no disrespect to Chance or anyone else who has commented, but let's keep this on topic. Sounds to me like an exciting prospect for a trip and I wish you luck.

BBD

Have you been to Cuba?, because if so, I'd be interested in hearing your experiences.

However, your three posts above don't seem without a heavy dose of bias/political orientation. I didn't create the measures, and I'm not interested in hearing a back and forth in order for you to keep your paradigms in place. Maybe some exploration on what is and isn't "sustainable" is needed.

I understand Cuba is polarizing, and political, and if you have direct travel experience to share, then have at it. If you're here to start pro-America bash Cuba back and forth (or vice-versa), that's your right, just don't do it in my thread.

I'm going there to bike tour and I'm here to talk about bike touring.

This is Moa, Cuba, btw... one of the towns we may be riding through/near:
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6097/6331963902_ee7d01f5fc.jpg

[rain dogs]

Hey by the way what are these jerseys found on your site? Do you make or import them? They look cool!

http://cimacoppi.bigcartel.com/products

There is a huge fan base of the merino jersey here. Tell us about them! :banana:

Yes, I personally make (hand sew) all those jerseys, jackets and caps in my studio here in Vancouver, and do custom work all embroidered here as well.

However, I read that the policies of the forum are not to post commercial interests, but if it's fine, I'll do another focused thread (non-touring thread) on the products sometime soon.

Thanks for noticing though and commenting with positive feedback!

[phcollard]

Yes, I personally make (hand sew) all those jerseys, jackets and caps in my studio here in Vancouver, and do custom work all embroidered here as well.

However, I read that the policies of the forum are not to post commercial interests, but if it's fine, I'll do another focused thread (non-touring thread) on the products sometime soon.

Thanks for noticing though and commenting with positive feedback!

You may send one to me in Montreal and I'll do a review :D

Just kidding. They look well done and I'm gonna order one soon. And I'll do a review.

[veggieburger]

I'm liking the Joop myself...hopefully you make em for fat guys! :banana:

[mistermo]

I hope this remains on topic....

Are there any Americans who can share details of how they entered Cuba, then reentered the US? I'd really like to go, but would like to hear the experiences of someone who did it successfully.

[I'll PM you on the jerseys.]

[RonW87]

I am in Toronto but when I went on a bike trip to Cuba a few years ago there were a few Americans on the trip. They just flew to Toronto and started (and ended) the trip from there.

I would have thought you just pay the package tour operator, not any Cuban entity. I used Macqueens (looks like their Cuba tours are branded "wowcuba"). I see Gap Adventures also runs bike tours in Cuba. It should be no problem to contact either of them and ensure that invoices are "US friendly".

I don't think most Americans fully understand that for Canadians (or Spanish, Italians, etc.) going to Cuba is just like going to Jamaica, Barbados, etc. It's just like any other beach destination. Therefore, once you are in Canada, it's just not that big a deal.

Ron

[rain dogs]

Ron, that's great information.

Where did you guys cycle. It looks like we're going to be doing a lower loop consisting of flying into Holguin airport and riding to Bayamo > Manzanillo > Pilon > Santiago de Cuba over 5 days.

then heading to Sancti Spiritus/Santa Clara by train or bus then riding to Trinidad > Cienfuegos

then train or bus to Havana and biking > Pinar del Rio > Bahia Honda > Havana > Matanzas and flying out of Varadero airport.

Total is 1035km in 11days of riding.

The distances are lower than normal for us, but considering we're expecting things to move a little slower, roads to be a little more rough, and transfers to be a little tougher, we're happy with that. Cause perhaps "a little" will be "a lot"

Ron, do you think that is too ambitious? Or we're missing something we should see in there?

[Aaron O]

I'm certainly not an expert on this, so please take this with a HEAVY grain of salt, but I THOUGHT there were potential penalties, civil and criminal, for US citizens going to Cuba via Canada and that the Government had ways of finding out about trips like these. I THINK it's an issue that has been prosecuted before...they might have even tried going after Michael Moore with these rules.

I'm basing this on half remembered things I've read an unspecified time ago...but I'd check the rules before planning something like this. I would be VERY careful about visiting a country the US has had thorny relations with...I'd be very careful about the rules. I am not commenting as to the validity or value of those rules, only that they exist and it's something I'd take seriously. Let's say something happens to you over there and you weren't legally allowed to be there. I wouldn't hold my breath for the US to help you out.

I would not visit a country the US banned me from visiting, regardless of how stupid I thought those rules might be.

[goonster]

I would just like to take a moment to celebrate fifty years of the embargo's splendid success at achieving its goals: the rapid ouster of the Castro regime and greatly liberalized economic policies. Clearly this is a policy that must be extended into perpetuity because it's working so well.

Oh wait . . .

[mistermo]

I'm certainly not an expert on this, so please take this with a HEAVY grain of salt, but I THOUGHT there were potential penalties, civil and criminal, for US citizens going to Cuba via Canada and that the Government had ways of finding out about trips like these. I THINK it's an issue that has been prosecuted before...they might have even tried going after Michael Moore with these rules.

I'm basing this on half remembered things I've read an unspecified time ago...but I'd check the rules before planning something like this. I would be VERY careful about visiting a country the US has had thorny relations with...I'd be very careful about the rules. I am not commenting as to the validity or value of those rules, only that they exist and it's something I'd take seriously. Let's say something happens to you over there and you weren't legally allowed to be there. I wouldn't hold my breath for the US to help you out.

I would not visit a country the US banned me from visiting, regardless of how stupid I thought those rules might be.

I'm no expert either, but have a similar impression to yours. My wife is French and I've been working on obtaining a French passport to avoid such issues. Her family has gone a few times and loved it. Unless I can find a safe way, I can't go along.

I think Michael Moore got in trouble because he's an agitator and drew the attention of the Bush admin. But that doesn't mean it's not illegal for us Americans to go and won't cause potentially serious problems. I'd like to now more before I jump in.

Until then, I'm going to follow rain dogs blog with great interest.

[Aaron O]

I'm no expert either, but have a similar impression to yours. My wife is French and I've been working on obtaining a French passport to avoid such issues. Her family has gone a few times and loved it. Unless I can find a safe way, I can't go along.

I think Michael Moore got in trouble because he's an agitator and drew the attention of the Bush admin. But that doesn't mean it's not illegal for us Americans to go and won't cause potentially serious problems. I'd like to now more before I jump in.

Until then, I'm going to follow rain dogs blog with great interest.

That sounds about right...just cover yourself very carefully and take the rules seriously. I'm not suggesting there is a moral issue here...or judging someone for going...I'm just saying I think there are a lot of potential risks.

[christian]

I think that the Cuba embargo is a custom more honor'd in the breach than in the observance.

[RonW87]

I went about a dozen years ago, but I suspect things have not changed much.

I did a week consisting of some time in Havana then heading west to the Pinar del Rio area.

Yours sounds like an ambitious trip but quite comprehensive and doable.

Keep in mind that there are some nice size mountains with up to 10k climbs, so you will want to have a sense of whether your distances are on hilly terrain or not.

I was surprised at what good shape the road were in. There was (at that time) very little traffic even on the main highways (as long as you were outside Havana), so cycling is easy.

Positives: Great scenery and beaches, great roads, friendly people (particularly if you have Spanish), time-warp feel to the whole country.

Negatives: Food was so-so at best. A couple of generation of communism means service isn't great. General stunted development (many blame their problems on the embargo, but there's only one country in the world that is embargo'ing them), time-warp feel.

Ron, that's great information.

Where did you guys cycle. It looks like we're going to be doing a lower loop consisting of flying into Holguin airport and riding to Bayamo > Manzanillo > Pilon > Santiago de Cuba over 5 days.

then heading to Sancti Spiritus/Santa Clara by train or bus then riding to Trinidad > Cienfuegos

then train or bus to Havana and biking > Pinar del Rio > Bahia Honda > Havana > Matanzas and flying out of Varadero airport.

Total is 1035km in 11days of riding.

The distances are lower than normal for us, but considering we're expecting things to move a little slower, roads to be a little more rough, and transfers to be a little tougher, we're happy with that. Cause perhaps "a little" will be "a lot"

Ron, do you think that is too ambitious? Or we're missing something we should see in there?

[Chance]

I'm no expert either, but have a similar impression to yours. My wife is French and I've been working on obtaining a French passport to avoid such issues. Her family has gone a few times and loved it. Unless I can find a safe way, I can't go along.

Hopefully this reply is apolitical enough to keep me from being accused of bias.

One way for Americans to keep a visit legal is to volunteer as part of a medical or humanitarian effort or mission. Mostly we need the right connections (which you can start with a Google search), but given your medical background it shouldn’t be that hard for you to make. It may be difficult to incorporate a cycling adventure into same trip though. If your goal is to see the country and help the needy it’s not that hard. Keep in mind that some humanitarian missions are little more than shams to allow Americans access to Cuba.

[bismo37]

My last trip to Cuba was in 1997. I flew from Miami to the Bahamas where the plane landed for a bit. No one de-boarded. And then the plane took off again for Havana. On the return trip, we landed in Cancun for a few minutes and then took off for Miami.

This year, I'll be visiting again towards the end of Feb and early March. I will be flying directly out of Miami to Cienfuegos with no "layovers". I'll ask my parents about the logistics (they made the arrangements for the flights). We will be visiting family. I'm not sure if we somehow qualify as humanitarian aid, etc. I know church and educational groups from the US can fly directly to the island as well.

Have a safe trip.

[UKBROOKLYN]

Ok I have been to Cuba several times.. yep I am UK BUT a US resident and therefore live with same rules. Best way to get into Cuba for US residents is via Canada or even better via Jamaica. You just call up air Jamaica in Montego Bay and book your flight from NY to Montego and another one from Montego to Havana. On the way back buy some Montego Bay Duty Free stuff.. I never had a problem And BTW the state department has way better things to do with its resources than mess around with erstwhile law abiding citizens. (Remember to ask the Cuban immigration on the way in not to stamp your passport, they are always cool with that.)
OK Biggest problem in Cuba.. FOOD. I am a non meat eater. Fish and Veg and Dairy cool but no meat for me. Big problem in the land of fried chicken and beens. There are very few restaurants anywhere outside of the big cities, and even the ones in the big cities are pretty crappy. Think Soviet style. If you are traveling around the island which I have done top to bottom.. PLAN YOUR FOOD. Do not expect to find a meal when you want it. Carry snacks.
People are very friendly and extremely wary of messing with tourists. The mere threat of contacting police is a huge trump card. The authorities want to encourage tourism as it brings currency in.
People are also really well educated, know about current affairs in other countries and you will never meet anyone under 40 who can't read and write. I have been shocked at the beautiful writing of apparently poor kids that I have seen in Cuba. You will also not encounter much shoe less begging the like of which is endemic in Mexico.
Don't get sick in Cuba. While much of Michael Moore's film about the quality of European health care was extremely accurate (I know because I am from there). The part about Cuba was to put it bluntly a crock of you know what. (I know because I have been sick in Cuba). Take Cipro with you if you can get yr Doc to give you or prescribe a few tabs. It could save you a lot if you get Denghi or some other dysentric infection. Take a good first aid kit. Take lots o sun tan lotion.
Take a pack of cheap ball point pens. I don't know but no one seemed to have anything to write with when I was there and giving someone a pen is really appreciated.
Don't get too political especially in the south. The north especially around Havana is pretty capitalistic. Everyone has a little business going. People will speak quite freely about the Castros. In the south is where the true revolutionaries live and you don't want to be in a boozy bar arguing about US vs Cuba.

Places to visit:
Santiago De Cuba, birthplace of Cuban Son also the birthplace of both Cuban revolutions. you can see Antonio Maceo's house and the original Banda Nacional (Flag) also the Moncada Barracks where Castro started the M 26-7.

Baracoa: Is a little seaside town all the way east. You get there by going over the Sierra Maestra via a fantastic road called The Fiarola

Holguin. Sleepy beautiful town

Trinidad. Must see town currently being preserved by UNESCO Its a perfect colonial sugar plantation town. Built a couple of miles in from the coast to hide it from marauders.

Cuba is a gigantic place about 700 miles long. But If I had a limited time I would Fly to Havana. Train to Santiago. Do some cycling. Train to santa Clara and cycle down to Trinidad and then Bus back to Havana.

Any questions.

[Germany_chris]

My wife wants o go to Cuba quite badly, mybe I'll just ignore the blue passport thing and go. I never realized you could fly from Canada to cuba and back without anyone really caring.

[Rueda Tropical]

Even with the embargo the USA is Cuba's 5th largest trading partner.

While doing absolutely nothing to improve the political situation in Cuba the embargo seems to keep 2 groups happy. It provides Castro with an excuse for his disastrous economy and it keeps a certain group of older Miami Cubans flush with a river of cash as the $millions the US spends every year to supposedly to promote democracy in Cuba never makes it out of Miami. Its a sort of symbiotic relationship between Castro and certain Anti-Castro groups. So long as things stay as they are the gravy train continues for both parties.

[ultraman6970]

+1

[Chance]

This year, I'll be visiting again towards the end of Feb and early March. I will be flying directly out of Miami to Cienfuegos with no "layovers". I'll ask my parents about the logistics (they made the arrangements for the flights). We will be visiting family. I'm not sure if we somehow qualify as humanitarian aid, etc. I know church and educational groups from the US can fly directly to the island as well.


Are your parents Cuban Americans? If so that qualifies them (and probably their children) to visit relatives on the island. Many of my Cuban-born acquaintances travel to Cuba on a regular basis to visit family. It’s also a way for them to help their families directly without a middle man that may keep some of the aid sent to their families.

[Chance]

Even with the embargo the USA is Cuba's 5th largest trading partner.

While doing absolutely nothing to improve the political situation in Cuba the embargo seems to keep 2 groups happy. It provides Castro with an excuse for his disastrous economy and it keeps a certain group of older Miami Cubans flush with a river of cash as the $millions the US spends every year to supposedly to promote democracy in Cuba never makes it out of Miami. Its a sort of symbiotic relationship between Castro and certain Anti-Castro groups. So long as things stay as they are the gravy train continues for both parties.
Agree on it not being effective. On the other hand the embargo has little to do with conditions there. It’s not effective but it also doesn’t cause much damage either. As they say, just follow the money.

Cuba can freely trade with just about any country they want as long as they can afford it including Canada, Mexico, The Netherlands, and so on. And they do. So if they have a shortage of tires and tubes for their bikes, or a shortage of pens to write with, it’s not because they don’t have access to these goods in free markets. It’s because they don’t have the cash to buy them.

According to Wikipedia, a Cuban doctor makes $30 (in US dollars) a month. That’s the real problem. They can’t buy much of anything from anyone because they can’t afford it. If the US traded with them they still wouldn’t be able to buy bicycle tubes from us any more than they can afford to buy them from Canada. Or Mexico. Seriously, it’s not like we make bike tubes here anyway.

Besides, why buy from us items made in China when they can go directly to China and buy from them? The only thing the embargo does is limit American tourism. The rest of the world is free to travel there.

Bottom line is that their problems are self-inflicted. We didn’t cause them and shouldn’t be blamed for them.

[UKBROOKLYN]

You are so totally wrong about the Embargo. Saying that a US trade embargo has no effect on Cuba is just wrong. I could write reams of stuff here about the many many ways that US trade embargoes have effected countries all over the world. But it's not necessary for me to do it. Do a little research on the web and you will understand the part that insidious political action plays in the development of nations.
The one single thing that is the greatest hindrance to the future development of Cuba is the embargo.
Example: Remove the Berlin wall.. change the nation. The Soviets dropped the wall more than 20 years ago, allowing them to progress in the family of nations. Yet the US maintains a rope around Cuba. Why.. It can't be military. The larger military installation in the entire region is Guantanamo Bay..
This is largely a cynical political action aimed at maintaining the American peoples trained fear of socialism and anything that can be linked to it.
It is damaging to Cuba and damaging to the American psyche because it maintains an unfounded fear.

[oldpotatoe]

My wife wants o go to Cuba quite badly, mybe I'll just ignore the blue passport thing and go. I never realized you could fly from Canada to cuba and back without anyone really caring.

Aren't you in the military or a GS employee? If so, I would think twice about going to Cuba. Yer boss(The US Gov't) won't be happy if they found out.

[johnnymossville]

...This is largely a cynical political action aimed at maintaining the American peoples trained fear of socialism and anything that can be linked to it.
It is damaging to Cuba and damaging to the American psyche because it maintains an unfounded fear.

It's not fear, it's the knowledge of what it does to people. Ever look at a night-time satellite image of North and South Korea?

[UKBROOKLYN]

That is an extremely bad example. North Korea is NOT a socialist state. it is a military dictatorship. Cuba is moving toward Euro style Democratic Socialism not to the left. This would move faster if the US dropped the embargo..

[Chance]

You are so totally wrong about the Embargo. Saying that a US trade embargo has no effect on Cuba is just wrong. I could write reams of stuff here about the many many ways that US trade embargoes have effected countries all over the world. But it's not necessary for me to do it. Do a little research on the web and you will understand the part that insidious political action plays in the development of nations.
The one single thing that is the greatest hindrance to the future development of Cuba is the embargo.
Example: Remove the Berlin wall.. change the nation. The Soviets dropped the wall more than 20 years ago, allowing them to progress in the family of nations. Yet the US maintains a rope around Cuba. Why.. It can't be military. The larger military installation in the entire region is Guantanamo Bay..
This is largely a cynical political action aimed at maintaining the American peoples trained fear of socialism and anything that can be linked to it.
It is damaging to Cuba and damaging to the American psyche because it maintains an unfounded fear.
Unbrooklyn, with due respect you have cause and effect completely backwards.

Knocking down the Berlin wall didn’t change the people. People who changed knocked the wall down. There is a huge difference. If you can’t see it we are not going to agree on much regarding what ails Cuba.

A US embargo isn’t a military blockade. Cuba is free to trade with 100 countries. If they don’t it’s because they can’t afford to do so. And that’s driven by the fact that they are very poor. And they are poor because they don’t produce much under their system of government, not because the United States refuses to trade (more) with them.

If the Cuban people had more incentives to be more productive they’d have more money to buy bicycles and other material items they need and may want. Whether that’s a good thing or not is a matter of opinion. No doubt there are people who would prefer we all live in a world that is less “developed” (for lack of a better word).

After 50 years Cuba is changing. They have no choice because what they have doesn’t work. It’ll just take a little more time.

[UKBROOKLYN]

I am not going to continue this discussion because I don't see it helping with the understanding of Cuba. I have been there several times. I have many Cuban friends, some with uniquely close relations with the Cuban government. I am European and have been educated in a fairly wide encompassing understanding of world geo politics. The Embargo is effecting Cuba and continues to do so. It is an idealogical tool of the US government which also serves the ruling party of Cuba. Get rid of the embargo and money will flow into the island. Cuban people are incredibly industrious and so ready to move on. This embargo hurts them and things will not change quickly while it is in place.

BTW People in Cuba may not have brand new cars or Macdonalds on every corner but you will be hard pressed to find poverty, shoe less children and malnutrition which is a general feature in many of the countries of our "Friends" that lay to the south.

[rain dogs]

OK People!

I already said this once and I'm saying it a last time:

IF YOU WANT TO GET INTO THE DETAILS OF CUBAN/AMERICAN RELATIONS, START YOUR OWN ******* THREAD!

Chance, you obviously have some strong ideas, but this isn't the time, nor is it the place. I already asked you once.

Take your ideas and have the discussion elsewhere, please. (Why the **** are we talking about night time satellite images of Korea?)

I'm trying to get information for a bike trip, and when this thread calms down we have good discussion.

When you start in here with your ideas about Cuba, you're going to get the thread shutdown. You're using this thread selfishly to state your opinions without even backing those opinions up (with sources, or direct experience). You've posted 8 times in this thread out of 50 posts and 6 of those are completely off topic (political), 2 are about Americans getting into Cuba (fair enough)

Stop it.

[Chance]

OK People!

I already said this once and I'm saying it a last time:

IF YOU WANT TO GET INTO THE DETAILS OF CUBAN/AMERICAN RELATIONS, START YOUR OWN ******* THREAD!

Chance, you obviously have some strong ideas, but this isn't the time, nor is it the place. I already asked you once.

Take your ideas and have the discussion elsewhere, please. (Why the **** are we talking about night time satellite images of Korea?)

I'm trying to get information for a bike trip, and when this thread calms down we have good discussion.

When you start in here with your ideas about Cuba, you're going to get the thread shutdown. You're using this thread selfishly to state your opinions without even backing those opinions up (with sources, or direct experience). You've posted 8 times in this thread out of 50 posts and 6 of those are completely off topic (political), 2 are about Americans getting into Cuba (fair enough)

Stop it.
What the hell are you talking about? Go back and read my posts and you'll find that I haven't said anything about Korea or satellites. Period.

If you have an issue at least get the person right. The last thing anyone needs is being banned for being confused for someone else.

And for what it's worth, there are others posting about politics and conditions in Cuba more than me. Why are you directing your comments at me and not them?

[Chance]

________________________________________
Go To Cuba
Have visited every province. Some on multiple occasions. Will probably do again.

[eros poli]

We just jumped on some pretty nicely priced tickets to Cuba as it's been a cycling tour destination that my partner and I have been eyeing for quite sometime.

Her and I want to see the best cycling destinations/landscapes the island has to offer, as well as not miss out on the historical/cultural mains.

We're not the sit on the beach type and are planning a tour of the length on the island from east to west.

We only have 2 weeks and aim to do 100-125km a day max, so we'll need to take advantage of Cuba's extensive rail (potentially bus) system to skip some of the "lesser-lights"

This is where we're looking for experience and advice.

We've been told not to miss the South Eastern coastline road, nor the Northwestern w/ the Viñales Valley.

So, what do we skip knowing time isn't infinite? Are there parts in the middle 7-8 provinces that aren't as worth it to spend time in and instead train through?

Thanks!

EDIT: Oh, the best we could do was fly into Holguin airport and out of Varadero airport to ease the transfers.

Dont miss Baracoa..fantastic bay (nice climb 10-12 ,down hill in Beautifull bay of Baracoa..cacao area) from Guantanamo bay and start climb from Cajobabo..the best view..very famouse climb also..la Grande Piedra...La grande Piedra was in the 80' the hardest climb of the world.
I was there in 86' for the vuelta de Cuba

[eros poli]

Dont miss Baracoa..fantastic bay (nice climb 10-12 ,down hill in Beautifull bay of Baracoa..cacao area) from Guantanamo bay and start climb from Cajobabo..the best view..very famouse climb also..la Grande Piedra...La grande Piedra was in the 80' the hardest climb of the world.
I was there in 86' for the vuelta de Cuba
other popular climb..Toppes de Collantes (http://maps.google.it/maps?hl=it&tab=wl)

[fiamme red]

other popular climb..Toppes de Collantes (http://maps.google.it/maps?hl=it&tab=wl)That looks very beautiful. I think this link (http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Topes+De+Collantes,+Cuba&hl=en&ll=21.899093,-79.901505&spn=0.326831,0.438766&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=35.410182,56.162109&vpsrc=6&hnear=Topes+de+Collantes,+Trinidad,+Sancti+Spiritu s,+Cuba&t=m&z=11) will work.

[eros poli]

other popular climb..Toppes de Collantes (http://g.co/maps/wnzhj)
and the gran Piedra (http://g.co/maps/f8seq)

[eros poli]

That looks very beautiful. I think this link (http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Topes+De+Collantes,+Cuba&hl=en&ll=21.899093,-79.901505&spn=0.326831,0.438766&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=35.410182,56.162109&vpsrc=6&hnear=Topes+de+Collantes,+Trinidad,+Sancti+Spiritu s,+Cuba&t=m&z=11) will work.

tope de collantes http://g.co/maps/wnzhj

[fiamme red]

tope de collantes http://g.co/maps/wnzhjI like this photo:

http://www.panoramio.com/photo/30353931

http://mw2.google.com/mw-panoramio/photos/medium/30353931.jpg

[rain dogs]

Eros,

Thank you for all the advice/recommendations. I'd been looking at the Vuelta a Cuba for route ideas. I'd love to ride out to Baracoa, as I have read it has the best (most stunning) road for cycling on the island over the Alto de Cotilla. That was in our initial route plan, but we had to take it out.

Unfortunately, it doesn't look like we'll have enough time to do that eastern point. It would add around 250km one way. Next trip!

We should be hitting the Tope de Collantes though!

This is our route idea:
http://cimacoppirides.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/cimacoppitourcuba.jpg

[eros poli]

Fantastico tour..vai Just go...:beer:

[eros poli]

Eros,

Thank you for all the advice/recommendations. I'd been looking at the Vuelta a Cuba for route ideas. I'd love to ride out to Baracoa, as I have read it has the best (most stunning) road for cycling on the island over the Alto de Cotilla. That was in our initial route plan, but we had to take it out.

Unfortunately, it doesn't look like we'll have enough time to do that eastern point. It would add around 250km one way. Next trip!

We should be hitting the Tope de Collantes though!

This is our route idea:
http://cimacoppirides.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/cimacoppitourcuba.jpg
Do you know that, Campagnolo made expecially for us in 86' the first 39 and 28 ? Just for climb the Gran Piedra!!!..in the team Cipollini, Vanzella, Fortunato Dametto Scirea and I

[rain dogs]

Do you know that, Campagnolo made expecially for us in 86' the first 39 and 28 ? Just for climb the Gran Piedra!!!..in the team Cipollini, Vanzella, Fortunato Dametto Scirea and I

No, I didn't know this, but that's a great story Eros!

Gran Piedra is just 14km outside of Santiago and then it's 14km up correct?

Maybe I can sneak away early in the morning and try it out.

How steep is it? 39x28 for you pros... it must be 12-14% with steeper (18-20%) ramps?

[bismo37]

Are your parents Cuban Americans? If so that qualifies them (and probably their children) to visit relatives on the island. Many of my Cuban-born acquaintances travel to Cuba on a regular basis to visit family. It’s also a way for them to help their families directly without a middle man that may keep some of the aid sent to their families.

My mom is a Cuban-born, US citizen. My dad is American. We take loads of clothing, medications, tools, parts, eyeglasses, etc. It is eye-opening to realize what we take for granted here and what is not there.

[RonW87]

Bringing this thread back from the dead (I think there's a cool millennial expression for that but I forget what it is).

Cruise ships now leaving from Miami to go to Cuba:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/us-cuba-cruise-1.3561925

As a Canadian, my thought is: "There goes the neighbourhood." Having said that, this can only be good for the Cuban people and US/Cuba relations.

Currently, the whole country is like a living museum of communism. I suspect within three years it will be little different from Puerto Rico or the Dominican Republic.

[bcroslin]

Bringing this thread back from the dead (I think there's a cool millennial expression for that but I forget what it is).

Cruise ships now leaving from Miami to go to Cuba:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/us-cuba-cruise-1.3561925

As a Canadian, my thought is: "There goes the neighbourhood." Having said that, this can only be good for the Cuban people and US/Cuba relations.

Currently, the whole country is like a living museum of communism. I suspect within three years it will be little different from Puerto Rico or the Dominican Republic.

There's been a direct flight from Tampa for a few years now. Seems every photographer I know has been there at least once.

Can anyone comment on the riding there? I would love to pitch a Cuba-by-bike story but I'd want to make sure it's worth doing. I've been to enough "living museum" countries that it's lost it's interest and I've seen enough cuban '57 Chevy's for a life time.

[htwoopup]

I was investigating the following....http://www.veloquebecvoyages.com/e/cuba-bike-tour a friend whose business is tours in Cuba said the key is you have to pick a place and do out and backs. Basically the infrastructure outside of Havana is not great. Plus, bring a simple bike as if anything breaks...

Again, not from my experience but just from what I have been told as I started to nail down how to do it.

[RonW87]

There's been a direct flight from Tampa for a few years now. Seems every photographer I know has been there at least once.

Can anyone comment on the riding there? I would love to pitch a Cuba-by-bike story but I'd want to make sure it's worth doing. I've been to enough "living museum" countries that it's lost it's interest and I've seen enough cuban '57 Chevy's for a life time.

Riding in Cuba is terrific. See various entries above in this thread. Also, I know a Toronto based cycling team that was just there for a week of training.

[RonW87]

Basically the infrastructure outside of Havana is not great.

This is complete nonsense. There are numerous tourist areas outside Havana.

[bcroslin]

This is complete nonsense. There are numerous tourist areas outside Havana.

True but I've also heard the roads are lousy the farther you get out side of Havana until you're near the next big city.

[redir]

Pretty soon there will be a McDonald's and a Duncan Donuts on every corner. Enjoy it while you can.

[RonW87]

True but I've also heard the roads are lousy the farther you get out side of Havana until you're near the next big city.

Not in my experience.

[bcroslin]

Not in my experience.

Good to know