Serotta needs a new webpage

[split]

All the talk lately over at the mothership (V salon, here (http://www.velocipedesalon.com/forum/f2/can-we-talk-about-serotta-please-25180-11.html) and here (http://www.velocipedesalon.com/forum/f2/ben-serotta-talks-about-serotta-25222.html) ) got my weekend morning creative juices cooking. I am a Serotta fanboy through and through and have had an 'irrational' obsession with Serotta bikes for more than 8 years since my Odile. I have my third Serotta getting built up right now (TBA, look for it soon in the gallery!) and the banners are hung up in the basement. I'd have more Serottas if my budget allowed for it.

I think we all agree that Serotta's web presence sucks and in my 30-something year-old-impressionable-mind, internet image plays a big part in where people spend their money. Serotta's webpage is an epic failure - there, I said it. It has hardly changed since 2003, which they have only added on to, to create the jumbled mess it is today. I know the webpage is not the reason why Serotta is in the predicament its in today, but in my mind it can't help.

Ben, you need to hire a professional photographer to make your bikes look their best. They deserve to be portrayed as works of art. You are selling halo bikes. Spec them with halo components (lightweights, AX lightness, THM, boutique stuff) so the young can drool and dream and the ones with disposable income can buy buy buy. There's other things I would do, but this is just about the webpage.

I just play with photoshop and html on the weekends, but think of what a real professional photographer and web designer could do...

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7149/6701123001_93029d35cd_o.jpg
photo from Signature Cycles

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7006/6701122831_3c439d259f_o.jpg
photo from Bike Effect

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7017/6701123135_3707048174_o.jpg
photo from Signature Cycles

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7009/6701122639_59950fbfb1_o.jpg
Can't remember where i found this photo, but probably from cyclefit.co.uk

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7152/6701123283_f1179a3bca_o.jpg
I know that's not a Serotta cyclocross bike but the picture is so cool. Ottrott from serotta789cycling.blogspot.com. Meivicis from Pez. Legend from Signature Cycles.

[pitcrew]

Ben, sign Split up........

[avalonracing]

And let's not forget a writer along with the designer and photographer.

[Smiley]

I'd sign you up and send you a Serotta for payment :)

[rugbysecondrow]

Man of action, I like!

[maximus]

Nice work. Looks like you had fun and admire that you took the time.

You just made me feel like a lazy designer.

I would imagine a site overhaul is top-of-mind at the company. Designing a site for a home-grown, highly respected and passionate company like Serotta is a fantasy of mine. I like that you just went for it in your spare time.

And avalonracing is right - get a good writer. Good marketing is nothing without it.

[eltonbalch]

...a new paint job is not at the top of the list. I really think he knows that a more sales oriented page is in order. Just keeping afloat is his biggest priority at the moment.

[phcollard]

... but think of what a real professional photographer and web designer could do...


This is professional web design imho. You're very very good. And the user interface in excellent too, very clear!

[AngryScientist]

This is professional web design imho. You're very very good. And the user interface in excellent too, very clear!

i agree fully. i dont know much about marketing, but i will admit that those images stir up some amount of emotion when i look at them, very good work indeed. shows what the right hands can do.

if i had a product to sell split - i'd hire you.

[gomango]

Simply outstanding.

I will be in the market for a Serotta in the next year or two, as I am thinning down the herd.

I simply can't have so many bicycles on hooks, but I will be able to afford a very nice Serotta.

You have made a compelling case for folks like me.

Very well done.

[William]

Very nice job!! :cool:





William

[SEABREEZE]

Ben this thread spells B A R T E R... a new frame for his unprofessional skill.

If you ask me, Split is being humble, as his skills are outstanding..

Thank you Split !!!

[firerescuefin]

...a new paint job is not at the top of the list. I really think he knows that a more sales oriented page is in order. Just keeping afloat is his biggest priority at the moment.


Marketing and selling bikes goes a long way towards keeping things "afloat"

[Ahneida Ride]

Very nice work !

[jmeloy]

THAT effort caused me to consider Serotta more than in the past. WOW!

[54ny77]

wow. that looks outstanding! agree with many comments here. goes to show what a supportive community this place is. talk about brand loyalty--amazing. any brand of anything would kill for this kind of loyalty, and this forum is one massive opportunity.

hope serotta is really paying attention to all of this and not making decisions in a crisis management vacuum. i wish them the best.

[Pete Serotta]

Man of action, I like!


AND WILL HELP in any way I can and some $$$s.....Talk to Bens@Serotta.com and list me as reference.


thanks for taking the time and showing us an excellent presentation. PETE

[eltonbalch]

Marketing and selling bikes goes a long way towards keeping things "afloat"

...keep in mind he is shifting from one business model to another and I don't think he has finalized in his own mind EXACTLY what that model is. Until he does, a significant web page change is premature. Obviously, what split put forth is very nice but you can't advertise a business model that isn't in place yet.

Just saying... :)

[Andrewlcox]

Great job! I liked your presentation and your vision of what a new Serotta website could look like. I have only been visiting Serotta for less than 2 years but have always thought their website was missing something.

Times have changed and the days of drooling over a catalog are over. Everyone checks out a company's website and lusts for their products in the comfort of their own home. Now that Serotta is going direct sales a great website makes more sense since I won't be able to touch and feel a new Serotta at a dealership.

I liked the idea of a new Serotta bike as payment for building a great website. A Serotta fanboy should be the designer because he has the passion for the brand already baked in and can express that in his design.

Andy

[RedRider]

Wow...that is a very impressive creation.
On behalf of Serotta, we really appreciate your ideas, comments and even criticism.
If you have more, please submit directly to us at teamserotta@serotta.com
Thanks,
Steven

[retrofit]

Masterful job!

[CNY rider]

...keep in mind he is shifting from one business model to another and I don't think he has finalized in his own mind EXACTLY what that model is. Until he does, a significant web page change is premature. Obviously, what split put forth is very nice but you can't advertise a business model that isn't in place yet.

Just saying... :)

Nobody comes to check out Ben's business model.
They come to see hot bikes, and get excited to buy one.
That has to happen no matter what the ultimate business model is.

[split]

THAT effort caused me to consider Serotta more than in the past. WOW!

That's what I was going for!

I can't take credit for the photos I found on the web but good photography can make a big difference in my book. It should convey an emotion. At this price point, you need to be selling more than just bikes. For example, just look at Rapha (making cycling in ordinary clothing appear so cool), Firefly (awesome tumblr pic feed, only a year old mind you), or Baum (beautiful studio shots).

[phcollard]

Split you have an opportunity here. Submit your design to Serotta (you have all the email addresses you need now). I believe you"ll be highly considered. You're a cyclist, you love the brand, and you're a good designer. I believe there are few people as qualified as yourself to do the job if Serotta need a new website (and I believe they do). If you are looking for a new bike I am sure they will consider a trade.

Go! :)

[wtex]

I hope this is a good thread to make suggestions; Split's excellent mock-ups reminded me of a few things:

1. At NAHBS last year, a big differentiator seemed to be hidden frame cables for the Di2 setups. Photos and text could really play up how Serotta does it different/better, etc.

2. Along those lines, Di2 on TT bikes seems to be pretty droolworthy to the tri crowd. The NYC 70.3 had ~ a $1000 entry fee last year, and all slots sold out in around 24 hours. That crowd has money, and the sport from everything I hear just keeps growing -- halo sales opportunity there. Triathletes want the best, and will pay for it. Dunno what sponsorship there is currently, but I would get a female pro kitted out on Serotta.

[Hawker]

VERY nice. I may give you a call for a company I represent.

Ben, check this guy out. Looks like he not only has the skills but even better than that...the passion.

[eltonbalch]

Nobody comes to check out Ben's business model.
They come to see hot bikes, and get excited to buy one.
That has to happen no matter what the ultimate business model is.

...and I ABSOLUTELY agree with you, but...

Here are some of the issues that Be Serotta listed in his 2012 open letter:

• We are currently in the process of reviewing new terms and conditions and definition for being a Serotta dealer. Dealerships globally will likely be reduced to fewer than 30.

If he hasn't decided who these dealers are, he can't list them on a new web page. Customers want to know where they can buy that great new bike.

• Consumers will have a variety of purchase-through-the-factory options.

If he hasn't formulated what those factory direct options are, he can't include them on a new web page. Only frames? Complete bikes? Ready custom?

• Our product focus is the SE custom range where every last detail is a full expression of our design, engineering and manufacturing ethos. Over the next few months we will be eliminating or reducing availability of our other models, exclusive in some cases to a specific dealership.

If he hasn't decided which models he's selling, he's not ready to put up great pictures of his model line. What he DOESN'T want to do is put up great pictures and then tell a customer he's not selling that any more.

Like everyone else I really liked split's approach, and Serotta could do worse than hire him to develop a new page format. I just don't think he's there yet, but that's just my opinion. :)

[fkelly]

As a webmaster for a bike club myself:

- the design and graphics are very impressive

but what is behind the design and how it supports Serotta's business process and how maintainable it is over time is even more important.

In other words, what is the software foundation proposed to be and what kind of expertise will be required to maintain it? Will Serotta be able to maintain and extend the site without involvement of a technical professional at every step. Will they be able to add products and pages and upload graphics and position them? Will there be a simple way for site users to contact the appropriate departments within Serotta and for Serotta to know which contacts have been responded to and which haven't. Little things like that.

[charliedid]

Nice work SPLIT

Do your self a favor and do not do anything else without some sort of contract with Serotta.

Fact is they can take these ideas right to a web shop and you have zero recourse. I'm not saying they would do that, just sayin'

Charlie

[Dr. Sparrow]

Nice work.

He really needs to consider changing the name of most of the bikes in his offering. Acronyms are to 1990 and having bike names that nobody is sure how to pronounce is just down right poor marketing.

Even the name "legend" needs updating. It has been around way too long.

A change in his Logo Font would be nice as well.

[Jason E]

I like that you have a post for January, 16th. Tomorrow's news today!

They've been told they need a new site in posts for over a year. They've said they would have one in weeks for months now.

I'm sure it is right around the corner.

(Still hoping for an entry level to the brand, double butted, traditional rear, steel racer, ala unlugged Atlanta, sub $3,000, and level TT, you know, if they are reading this anyway... Think Crown Jewel.)

[Jason E]

Even the name "legend" needs updating. It has been around way too long.


:rolleyes:

[maximus]

Other designers have done similar things in the past. Here is a really interesting read on what one creative did for American Airlines:
http://www.dustincurtis.com/dear_american_airlines.html

His point about creating a better customer "experience" vs. only focused on customer "service" is I think what Split is getting at.

There was also the visual arts student who redid the prescription drug bottle and was then hired by Target for the redesign of their pharmacy bottles. Pretty cool.

I like Splits inspired take on the site. That said, I think that it should be admired as a designers take on what it could become and keep the conversation limited to that vs. what else the company could do. A site overhaul for a company with a legacy, product and customer base like Serotta's calls up many considerations outside of what looks great - which is arguably what we have here.

Anyway. Props to Split. The constructive and open criticism of our host's web presence within their very own forum makes for an interested thread :cool:

[Ahneida Ride]

Please send me a PM

My site needs work ..

www.handlebra.com

Got Wrap ?

[nighthawk]

and having bike names that nobody is sure how to pronounce is just down right poor marketing.


French people still exist, ya know? :rolleyes:

[93legendti]

Awesome

[chuckroast]

SPLIT, if you are still accepting compliments on the cool design, here's mine. Nice work and quite inspiring.

[fogrider]

First, Split, great work. Clearly, you have some skills. I completely agree that business in today's world needs a good website.

other frame builders better be listening! eltonbalch makes some good points, but a website should be easy to update or some information could be sidelined...I'm sure we have all seen the "under construction" message come up. with any good web design comes templates for new pages.

again, the thing to remember is everyone that is considering a serotta is going to be visiting the site...more than once. very likely they will be studying the website for specs, options, paint, etc.

I'm in San Francisco (seems like there are just as many web designers as there are food trucks) and our company redesigned our website a few years ago, the cost of a web design will be cheap if it was just the cost of the most expensive bike.

[rnhood]

Excellent work there. I opened this post quick and didn't immediately read it, thinking Serotta may have changed their site....and dramatically for the better.

[beeatnik]

There are a bunch of misspellings, typos and minor grammatical errors on the website. IIRC most of them appear in the product descriptions. I always wondered if I could, in good conscience, purchase a $10,000 luxury item from a producer not thorough enough to ensure proper copy.

[pdmtong]

split, nice work here. I sat up because the images are compelling, but of course this is only the start. it's the content that must be compelling as well (presuming of course the navigation is there to make it easy to find and understand). Without the content, the images only take the message so far, and, we've all rat-holed down the discussiuon in other threads what that content should communicate

[zap]

Have to love end user enthusiasim and the work down by split looks nice.

But as one or two others posted, image does not make a website and I suspect split knows this. Behind the scene coding is critical if a website is to function properly and as fkelly posted, can Ben & company update the site easily.

Many small business owners fell for glitzy images and then wondered why they disappeared from web searches.

[fkelly]

In the 21st century having an excellent web site is pretty much essential to any business. The design and operation of the web site has to be totally integrated into the business plan. As Ben is going through the redesign of his business model, the role of the web site needs to be as much a part of that design as how the factory will work or what resellers will be part of the Serotta network or how customer support will work. I see little indication that is happening but of course I know next to nothing about what they are going through internally.

For example, Ben talks about having something on the order of 30 local bike shops as resellers. Will they all be represented on the Serotta web site? Will there be a bike shop locator? Will their names, phone numbers and emails be listed on the Serotta web site? Perhaps as important, will there be a mechanism for keeping that contact information up to date easily or will you need to contact a programmer to change a phone number or email address? Will there be a contact form on the Serotta site so that users can easily contact a reseller? Will there be some standards for responsiveness by resellers (and Serotta Central) so that you know there are N inquiries outstanding and the average response time is M days? Will paying customers have their own queue to track their order progress?

Does Serotta Central view the web site as an opportunity or a p.i.t.a? I'm afraid right now it looks to an outsider as a bit of the latter. When someone posts a question (not to Forums but to the customer site) at 10 p.m. on a Friday night what is the expectation for responding to it? And how is that expectation going to be met? Who will be responsible? Who will follow up?

When I toured the Serotta Factory prior to buying a bike in October 2010, I heard a lot about perfectionism and .0001 of an inch tolerances and the like. Serotta didn't just hire someone off the street and stick them at an expensive and complicated machine without training and tell them to assemble a bike. No more can you do that with a web site ... e.g., take someone in sales and say "oh and in addition to your normal duties I want you to keep the web site up to date". No way that works. You need the same perfectionism and tolerances for a web site and resulting customer support that you do for your bike manufacturing process. They all work together.

As I mentioned in a previous post, I run a web site for a bike club. It's all volunteer and non-profit. But to make it work, sorry, it's a 7 day a week job. At any given time there are as many or more hackers and spammers trying to break in as there are normal users. Your site has to be secured and monitored. If it's not, you will get hacked. If you keep any customer data on the site it will get exposed and stolen. If you keep customer data on computers attached to your internet site hackers will infect those and steal the data. At the very least they will spam and phish your customers.

So, yeah, having great graphics as Split proposed is important. But so is the software engine and support structure that underlies that. And before all that is a vision, with supporting detail, for how the web site fits into your business process, how it will be managed and secured and how it will be supported over time. Amateurs need not apply.

[deechee]

I find the examples very similar to Signature Cycles (http://www.signaturecycles.com/) recently revamped webpage.

To play devil's advocate, the content of the webpage is not that different from the current page. Its not coherent. The left side of the page with the image & quote seems to be for a new customer, the news on the right, a mish mash of a blog and new model info. Is the webpage targeted to a new customer or existing? Where do dealers go for updates on orders? (Trek has a great system where dealers can look up what models & units are available in 5 seconds.) Serotta can improve communication so much just by offering ETA times for frames here. The pictures are pretty for the different models - but as a newbie, how do I choose? Offer them by material? price? customizable features?

fkelly has the most valid point - without constant updates, the page stagnates no matter how many times it can be redesigned.

[bikemoore]

The photos you have posted are exactly the kind of photography that their website needs. One thing that has always made Serotta frames so cool is the shapes of their tubes and joints. They are just beautiful to look at. Unfortunately, none of that beauty shows up anywhere on the company website. Bikes at this price point need to show off their gorgeous looks over the web so that the desire to have a new Serotta boils over into a must have it sale. No other frames in the world have the elegance of Serotta. Hire a professional photographer and a professional web designer and give them the mission of making us foam at the mouth over these gorgeous frames !!

[pdmtong]

As a counterpoint, IF's website isn't exactly a mind-blower and they seem to be doing ok.

the www is just one piece of the puzzle

[Dr. Sparrow]

French people still exist, ya know? :rolleyes:

How many of them are buying Serotta's?

[whforrest]

regarding website, get rid of the ford painted serotta. it was great to see it years ago, but does not due that amazing bike justice.

work with a few paint designers and give the serotta paint options a few new looks. we're all visual and love seeing the many ways a serotta can be built.

thanks for taking the time to do the website draft. it certainly conjurs more emotion................

[vinster88]

I'm looking at a new Meivici and Ottrott today. The look of that mock up is just the thing I'd like to send my wife to to show how cool these bikes are.

[Jason E]

Don't show her the real page.

[Derailer]

Very nice, Split. As a fellow thirty-something, I think you have a very good idea of what it will take to elevate the Serotta brand to its proper place in the Halo bike pantheon.

[Viper]

Watching 'Doomsday Preppers' on National Geographic Channel for a few minutes and you'll see some families spending $500K, training and preparing for Doomsday. The families have killer dogs, bunkers, blast doors, filtered air, filtered water, guns, ammo and they train non-stop, shooting fake Zombies at the gun range every Sunday after Church.

Note to the Dads of these families: It ain't Doomsday that's gonna kill you and your families. It's your cholesterol, blood pressure and heart disease.

I reviewed Serotta's website. It's barebones, simple.

Website Critics: You have a point. But I believe it's not the website that's hurting them. It's the bikes. Their construction. Their cost. Is it possible to have:

A). An all-steel frame without carbon seat stays? How could the Coeur d'Acier be the "The gold standard in steel riding" with, "A heart of steel" when it's arse is carbon fiber? Why not make it in all-steel, horizontal-tradtional as the standard top tube (with sloped as an option) and also offer a lugged version?

B). An all-titanium frame without carbon seat stays? Legend, see above.

C). A decrease in overall cost points which competes with the competition.

[jpw]

[QUOTE=(Viper)

A). An all-steel frame without carbon seat stays? How could the Coeur d'Acier be the "The gold standard in steel riding" with, "A heart of steel" when it's arse is carbon fiber? Why not make it in all-steel, horizontal-tradtional as the standard top tube (with sloped as an option) and also offer a lugged version?

B). An all-titanium frame without carbon seat stays? Legend, see above.

C). A decrease in overall cost points which competes with the competition.[/QUOTE]

CDA and Legend are available sans carbon stays - that's the failing of the website right there.

The price? Take out a loan.

[forrestw]

Like a fish needs a bicycle

Not knocking her work split, it's pretty but this has been discussed ad nauseam

[rugbysecondrow]

Like a fish needs a bicycle

Not knocking her work split, it's pretty but this has been discussed ad nauseam

So you don't think they need a new website?

[Viper]

Like a fish needs a bicycle

Even Gloria Steinem got married. :)

I'd like to point out this phrase was coined by an Irishwoman (watered-down Aussie) Mrs. Irina Dunn. Steinem stole it and we're givin' it back. Dunn stole it from Mr. Charles Harris, an American psychologist who said, "A man without faith is like a fish without a bicycle.”

Also, while doing bicycle wit, "The bicycle has done more for the emancipation of women than anything else in the world."
~Susan B. Anthony, 1896

[split]

For those that are just reading this thread now, please know I started it in the context of the old website 3 months ago, before the redesign. Take the time to read the original post on page 1 (http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=102544&page=1). Now, more than ever, the need for a new website is undeniable.

Like I said originally, it's more than just the website. This reminds me of the post re:rapha, an interesting read: http://brianacampbell.net/the-power-of-story-four-things-we-can-learn-f

[Viper]

For those that are just reading this thread now, please know I started it in the context of the old website 3 months ago, before the redesign. Take the time to read the original post on page 1 (http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=102544&page=1). Now, more than ever, the need for a new website is undeniable.

Like I said originally, it's more than just the website. This reminds me of the post re:rapha, an interesting read: http://brianacampbell.net/the-power-of-story-four-things-we-can-learn-f

Joe Campbell. Power of Myth. Myth is the power of Marketing.