Metal Man - how does he do it?

[capybaras]

Does anyone know why the computrainer metal man is so fast on the flats and downhills? He consistently gets ahead putting out lower wattage. I can catch him by putting out way more watts or working hard on an uphill. But seems like at similar watts we should be going similar speed and distance. Is it because of his his slippery shell? Or maybe he is an extraterrestrial? Does he have a motor in his seatpost? What is his secret?

[avalonracing]

Epo

[capybaras]

Epo
I pray that is not true. Cycling is in a sad state today for sure. But even the robots dope? Say it ain't so, Joe.

[pitcrew]

He's got a tiny motor hidden in his frame........

[1centaur]

It's because he puts out those watts in a perfect 360 circle and you don't. It's why smooth pedalers seem to be faster with less effort. I agree with you it's frustrating - use the handlebar controller to crank him back periodically, especially on downhills. You beat him on uphills because your effort goes up in response to the challenge and his doesn't. Somewhere in the manuals Racermate talks about the 360 degree thing, maybe by implication. I agree it's annoying.

One of the best uses of metalman is to run a flat loop and then use his draft to save your legs then sprint full out for the finish line as many times in a row as you can stand it. That's how I found out I have no sprint :(

[capybaras]

It's because he puts out those watts in a perfect 360 circle and you don't. It's why smooth pedalers seem to be faster with less effort. (

Ah ha! Do you know if it takes your actual pedal stroke into account (so that one could see improvement) or does it just assume we are all inferior to metal man in the same way?

[BillG]

It's because he puts out those watts in a perfect 360 circle and you don't. (

I've never understood this. Watts is watts, so why does it matter how you put them out? If metalman's average wattage is below yours how can he still be ahead of you (which he often is) even if you work harder to put out those watts?

[Ti Designs]

Metal man lives in the virtual representation of the physical world and you're on a trainer. Yeh, they try to calculate for the energy loss between the tire and roller, but the CompuTrainer unit is just a resistance unit, it can't act as the inertia of your body weight moving forward. On a down hill in the real world the hill is accelerating the bike and thus the wheels - this is the representation that Metal man rides in. You have no such addition to your speed, it's your wattage vs. calculated drag.

No, watts are not simply watts - it's all about how you use them. This simple view is why so many power meter riders are at a disadvantage. I have a rider return from a training camp and brag that he was sprinting at 1400 watts. I then took him 5 for 5 in town line sprints - I'm nowhere close to that wattage.

[BillG]

No, watts are not simply watts - it's all about how you use them. This simple view is why so many power meter riders are at a disadvantage. I have a rider return from a training camp and brag that he was sprinting at 1400 watts. I then took him 5 for 5 in town line sprints - I'm nowhere close to that wattage.

I know that. You know what I meant! :bike:

[capybaras]

On a down hill in the real world the hill is accelerating the bike and thus the wheels - this is the representation that Metal man rides in. You have no such addition to your speed, it's your wattage vs. calculated drag.


Thank you, Ti. How silly they program it like this. Guess I will have to keep letting a little air out of Metal Man's tires when he gets out hand.

[verticaldoug]

No, watts are not simply watts - it's all about how you use them. This simple view is why so many power meter riders are at a disadvantage. I have a rider return from a training camp and brag that he was sprinting at 1400 watts. I then took him 5 for 5 in town line sprints - I'm nowhere close to that wattage.

1400 watts. He should be embarrassed unless he weigh 120 lbs

[gearguywb]

Metal man is my arch enemy...but I love him. Some of my workouts are on courses where we rode in Raleigh, and they are quite hilly. Set metal man to a specific wattage and then hang on! It is tough on the downhills...where I can not use my significant bulk to an advantage!

[BumbleBeeDave]

Humans are inferior and cannot resist us!

[capybaras]

Tin Man:
Perfect? Oh - bang on my chest if you think I'm perfect. Go ahead - bang on it!
It's empty. The tinsmith forgot to give me a heart. All hollow.

[Ti Designs]

1400 watts. He should be embarrassed unless he weigh 120 lbs

In testing I put out less wattage than he does. I'm probably not the slowest person on this forum...

[BillG]

Did you hand your 1400 watt friend a banana when you saw the town line coming up? And then another banana at the next town line. And so on?

[gearguywb]

My wattage numbers always start with a "1". Unfortunately there is no comma.

[capybaras]

Did you hand your 1400 watt friend a banana when you saw the town line coming up? And then another banana at the next town line. And so on?
:banana: :banana: :banana:

[1centaur]

I've never understood this. Watts is watts, so why does it matter how you put them out? If metalman's average wattage is below yours how can he still be ahead of you (which he often is) even if you work harder to put out those watts?

While I think TiD answered this, my answer is that metalman is actually pushing X watts at every increment of the circle and the number of watts showing on the screen for you is some kind of average of what you put out through the circle and the speed you are shown vs. the watts you are averaging according to their algorithm has some level of disconnect. Definitely on downhills I find it hard to put out the watts of metalman because my imperfect stroke happens less frequently per foot traveled whereas the silver guy just motors along regardless. I am not a machine. On the flats, I can stay even with him at an average just a little more than the number I assigned to him.

So, just use the number for metalman as an approximation for specific workouts, and don't use him on rolling courses. BTW, he can motopace you as well using the drafting feature.

[ultraman6970]

Are u talking about this metal man??

http://borgdotcom.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/six-million-dollar-man-lenticular-image.jpg

ps: pop culture at best, but not for young kids :D

[Ti Designs]

Did you hand your 1400 watt friend a banana when you saw the town line coming up? And then another banana at the next town line. And so on?

That trick really only works once, and he would know something is up if I showed up with a big bunch of bananas in my back pockets.

Those who think watts are watts don't understand that the human body isn't a steady state machine, it's a bio mechanical machine that has certain limits. If you apply a current to an electric motor it'll produce wattage, and continue to do so at a very steady rate. The human body is a bunch of levers that move limbs and muscles which contract to create force. The limitation comes in where a muscle under contraction doesn't get blood flow, so it's function also cuts off it's power supply. This is where we get into the duty cycle of any given muscle, or the ratio of contraction time to relaxed time where oxygen can be delivered. This is no an instant on/off switch either, muscle fibers are recruited in a certain pattern and relax in another pattern, but their own use at higher intensities will often throw this off as muscle fibers can trigger their own pull reflexes. What that really means is that much beyond a 33% duty cycle the power output is going to start dropping over time. On the bike it gets worse. Very few people ever take the time to break down the pedal stroke into muscle usage zones to limit where each muscle is used. In testing with surface sensors we found that most untrained riders are using mostly their quads when the pedal is at 3:00, and the force vector is almost 90 degrees out of phase with the direction of pedal travel. What we've found is at greater output the duty cycle of that muscle group can reach 50%, and power drop-off is rapid as fatigue sets in (that dreaded burning quad syndrome). We took that test one more step to show that working harder doesn't always mean faster. Same rider, the first test we had them react to the pace of another rider (yes, he was silver), the second test they had target points on the spin scan. The first test was harder, both mentally and physically, and produced less wattage over time.

My point in all of this is that you're not riding against metal man on the road. If you want to keep up with metal man on his terms, increase the inertia of your system. Duct tape over the sides of a wheel you don't care about and fill it with cement. Your auto mechanic is going to look at you kinda funny when you bring it to him and ask them to balance it, but they should expect that from cyclists. If you're riding with people on the road, understand the bio mechanics and use it to your advantage.

Getting back to winning sprints against stronger riders (my wattage output is lower than anyone can explain, I've been tested many times, indoor time trials are not my friend) it all comes down to that idea that nobody puts out a steady amount of power (metal man never comes out for the rides). Jay is a cat 1, if it came down to a 300 yard drag race I don't think I would stand a chance. In most cases I would fake a jump early, he would jump in reaction and tow me to the line where I would pop it around him as he lost speed. He had noticed that I hadn't put myself on the front in any of the sprints, so he glued himself to my back wheel. His mistake there was that it was the only tailwind sprint all day, the combination of waiting long enough and jumping first gave me that line. The final sprint was about the traffic. Our group had caught another group and you know how guys are, none of them wanted to get passed, so it formed one big group. Getting to the last town line I put myself behind two guys who had been going for the town lines all morning. The guy on my wheel was from the other group. I had no way of knowing, but I guessed that the riders we picked up wouldn't react to the jump which would clear my back wheel and Jay would have to get around traffic to beat me.

I had used the banana trick on Jay's teammate the week before, there was no way it was going to work again.

[capybaras]

Note to self: buy bananas