NYC Bike Share program

[fiamme red]

Copied from the 5 Boro Bike Tour thread:

Pardon the (sort-of) thread drift, but this is NYC cycling-related, and for some reason I cannot start a new thread:
http://cfa.aiany.org/index.php?section=calendar&evtid=3901
Here's a chance for locals to get a preview of the upcoming Bike Share program coming our way.
Plus, you can personally kwetch to DOT Commissioner Janette Sadik-Khan about how her bike lanes are ruining your life.
RSVP/registration probably not required (no secret architect's handshake, either), but given the emotional response the bike lanes have created, security may be tight. ;)The NYCDOT's program is starting out with 10,000 bikes. Rather optimistic, I think. How many will end up vandalized or in chop shops?

What will they do with so many bikes during the winter? Both the Boston and Montreal programs shut down in late autumn. I can imagine all those bikes getting sprayed with salty slush and becoming rustbuckets very quickly.

[deechee]

Why would you put away the bikes? Toronto still had their bikes out in December when I was there. In Montreal we're heavy users of salt and we have suburbs who will not plow bike paths in winter. Also, the docking stations are powered with batteries, I imagine maintenance would be worse on -20C days.

I think 10k bikes is certainly reasonable considering NYC has much more population density than Montreal and we only have ~5k bikes. With 5k, there were still occasions where I would have to walk to 2-3 stations before finding a bike.

[victoryfactory]

Copied from the 5 Boro Bike Tour thread:

The NYCDOT's program is starting out with 10,000 bikes. Rather optimistic, I think. How many will end up vandalized or in chop shops?

What will they do with so many bikes during the winter? Both the Boston and Montreal programs shut down in late autumn. I can imagine all those bikes getting sprayed with salty slush and becoming rustbuckets very quickly.


They won't be chopped. Typically those "city" bikes are made from completely
non standard parts that don't fit on regular bikes.
Vandalized, maybe. But they will be locked to racks around town and may not
draw the attention of vandals like an individual bike would.
These bike programs require a certain level of maintenance and civility.
Hopefully NYC will step up to the plate.
One of the main things that prevents most people from riding around the city is the
problem of theft and finding a place to park. These programs deal with that.
Jumping on a bike to go 20 blocks down the avenue could be more attractive
than the slow bus system.
Seems to work in Paris.

VF

[fiamme red]

Why would you put away the bikes? Toronto still had their bikes out in December when I was there. In Montreal we're heavy users of salt and we have suburbs who will not plow bike paths in winter. Also, the docking stations are powered with batteries, I imagine maintenance would be worse on -20C days.

I think 10k bikes is certainly reasonable considering NYC has much more population density than Montreal and we only have ~5k bikes. With 5k, there were still occasions where I would have to walk to 2-3 stations before finding a bike.The Montreal BIXI program is in the red.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/story/2011/06/20/bixi-report-mtl.html

Montreal's auditor general says the city missed several crucial steps in the creation and management of the Bixi bike-sharing program.

In a report released Monday, Auditor General Jacques Bergeron said the city didn't properly study the program's feasibility before its launch. He also said the city it has no authority to market and export the concept, and the Bixi service will cost taxpayers millions for years to come.

Bergeron wrote in his report that basic elements of management were neglected, including risk and cost-benefit analyses, and allowance for a financial margin of error...

[AngryScientist]

this would be great for folks like me who are in NYC often, but without a bike. looking forward to this program getting off the ground.

[christian]

I have an office in midtown and downtown. This is going to be great.

[cmg]

The Montreal BIXI program is in the red.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/story/2011/06/20/bixi-report-mtl.html

Montreal's auditor general says the city missed several crucial steps in the creation and management of the Bixi bike-sharing program.

In a report released Monday, Auditor General Jacques Bergeron said the city didn't properly study the program's feasibility before its launch. He also said the city it has no authority to market and export the concept, and the Bixi service will cost taxpayers millions for years to come.

Bergeron wrote in his report that basic elements of management were neglected, including risk and cost-benefit analyses, and allowance for a financial margin of error...

Bixi was first set up in Montreal in 2009. In 2010, startup costs had it running at a deficit of more than $30 million.

How could a bike share program have a start up cost of $30 million? typical, let the govt. do it at 20 times the cost. a bike share program has started n fat antonio, haven't seen anything about start up costs but the bikes are really heavy, too much exercise to get stolen.

[Ahneida Ride]

The NYCDOT's program is starting out with 10,000 bikes.
How many will end up vandalized or in chop shops?


10,000 ...

What not practice "fractional reserve" on them and create 90,000
bikes outa thin air?

[fiamme red]

Bixi was first set up in Montreal in 2009. In 2010, startup costs had it running at a deficit of more than $30 million.

How could a bike share program have a start up cost of $30 million? typical, let the govt. do it at 20 times the cost. a bike share program has started n fat antonio, haven't seen anything about start up costs but the bikes are really heavy, too much exercise to get stolen.Alta (the company in charge of the NYC bike share program) says that the program will cost $50 million to run each year.

$50,000,000 per year / 10,000 bikes = $5,000 per bike per year

[deechee]

The Montreal BIXI program is in the red.


The system is only as good as its reach. (The more bikes & stations, the better.) I also think its effectiveness is extremely dependent on ease of use and first impressions. Montreal has had three years to figure out the details. If a non-biker comes to a station and there's no bikes, do you think he/she will return the next day? (Can also lead to vandalism) If there's no station near their destination, why in the world would they bother? And let's not get into explaining the rules of 30mins/45mins and 2-5 minute buffer times between exchanging bikes. In Quebec French is our first language - I've seen many a confused tourist standing in front of the bixi box. NYC will not have these issues with a proper product launch.

I agree with those who say the Bixi program should never have been saved. The money would have been much better used in improving our public transportation system which serves a wider population and 12 months of the year. But that's the thing, we can't have bikes out all year long. We have at least 4 months of no service. Our bridges need to be replaced and we have people driving off overpasses because of lousy barriers/bad snow plowing (the plowed snow turns into a ramp off the road).

Please don't discount our city/province's ability to screw up spending. The bixi program is owned by the corporation responsible for our parking meters.

But as a cyclist who takes advantage of the service, its extremely convenient. I gave away my beater ever since they added a bike station near my house. I love not worrying about getting my bike stolen or vandalized.

Be happy you get a large deployment. Yeah the bikes get crappy over time, I've ridden on bikes with rubbing brakes, stiff headsets, broken seats, broken baskets, broken brake levers, flat tires, but its the convenience of being able to get a bike anywhere which is worth the yearly membership. Who cares what the bike is like, you're able to ride!

[torquer]

Thanks for the repost, Fiamme. Can't figure out why I wasn't able to start a new thread, since replies obviously work.
In any case, the exhibit is up until February 4, if anyone wants to drop in:
http://cfa.aiany.org/index.php?section=upcoming&expid=231
Also, it looks like the program is still soliciting input on locations.
www.nyc.gov/bikeshare

As far as the financing goes, advertising revenue is expected to subsidize expenses; this is how our new bus shelters were contracted out, as I recall, and maybe even newstands. Not sure if any public money is being put at risk.

[crownjewelwl]

i would never ride a bike in the city. way too much traffic and aggressive driving (usually by cabs). i think the cities where bike share programs have worked (e.g., amsterdam) are relatively low traffic areas. the cities are so old that they aren't designed for heavy auto traffic. nyc is a whole other story...

[Fixed]

Why would you put away the bikes? Toronto still had their bikes out in December when I was there. In Montreal we're heavy users of salt and we have suburbs who will not plow bike paths in winter. Also, the docking stations are powered with batteries, I imagine maintenance would be worse on -20C days.

I think 10k bikes is certainly reasonable considering NYC has much more population density than Montreal and we only have ~5k bikes. With 5k, there were still occasions where I would have to walk to 2-3 stations before finding a bike.
i was there last summer lots of responsible riders there
it was beautiful
you live in a very hip city
cold temps now but hip and warm citizens imho
cheers

[Ahneida Ride]

i would never ride a bike in the city. way too much traffic and aggressive driving (usually by cabs). i think the cities where bike share programs have worked (e.g., amsterdam) are relatively low traffic areas. the cities are so old that they aren't designed for heavy auto traffic. nyc is a whole other story...

Riding on NYC streets is an unique experience.
Better have good insurance.

It's theory vs. reality.

[mvrider]

Last summer, when in Paris, my wife and I tried out the Velib system. The bikes were unique and heavy, but Paris is mostly flat, so it was fun to ride along the famous boulevards and have a different view than from inside a metro train. There were dedicated bike lanes, and the danger seemed more from the bus exhaust and careless pedestrians than from the cars. Of course, France has a mandatory law requiring 1.5 meters buffer when passing cyclists, so that certainly helps. The system is financed by a contract with a huge advertising agency.

Two downsides of the system that we experienced:

1. It's not really set up for casual visitors, but more for local commuters. If it hadn't been for some helpful folks with European credit cards, we would not have been able to use it at all. Our prehistoric cards with magnetic stripes were useless (and at the gas pump as well).

2. There are currents and tides to the bicycle flow, causing frustration when we tried to park, and there were no empty slots. We had to circle around to several stations before we finally located two slots that were in the process of being vacated.

Nevertheless, it was really cool to see so many bikes on the streets of a major city!

[comptechgsr]

As much as I'm pro bike for everyone here in NYC, I am afraid that the hoodlums of the city won't accept it well....

ALSO, we have a lot of new bike lanes (which is good) but a lot of automobiles that are not used to the lanes...BEWARE

[victoryfactory]

I noticed the same things in Paris as mvrider.
especially the lack of parking at popular places.
no doubt the locals know all the tricks.

as far as theft and vandalism, I really think our NYC
hoodlums are too smart to care about these bikes. they
can't be sold or used for food delivery. they won't waste
their time.
The only good thing I see here is the program will insure
at least for a little while, the maintenance and creation
of more bike lanes.
the addition of hundreds of nerdy bikes running around
the city will train the drivers to get more used to bikes.
I bet the "regular" bike people will find the rent a bike
crowd worse than the taxis and trucks they currently do
battle with.
The days of the daredevil bike guy weaving in and out of
traffic are numbered. When a city installs all this stuff they
will feel justified in penalizing any riders who ride outside
the lines…

VF

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . along with several other thoughts. Many are going to be stolen and/or vandalized. The non-standard parts manufacture makes no difference. Local gang-bangers will steal them just to be stealing something.

Clueless tourists will rent them and get creamed by some of those cabs--and the anti-bike Daily News (or was it the Post?) will report every detail with screaming headlines.

Attrition rate will be horrible. Bloomberg's lackeys will deny and try to conceal the real numbers--and once again the Daily News or Post will rat them out and announce it with more screaming anti-bike headlines.

Should be interesting. Sorry I'm not more optimistic about this . . .

BBD

As much as I'm pro bike for everyone here in NYC, I am afraid that the hoodlums of the city won't accept it well....

ALSO, we have a lot of new bike lanes (which is good) but a lot of automobiles that are not used to the lanes...BEWARE

[victoryfactory]

Real cyclists don't use bike lanes!

[LesMiner]

. . . along with several other thoughts. Many are going to be stolen and/or vandalized. The non-standard parts manufacture makes no difference. Local gang-bangers will steal them just to be stealing something.

Clueless tourists will rent them and get creamed by some of those cabs--and the anti-bike Daily News (or was it the Post?) will report every detail with screaming headlines.

Attrition rate will be horrible. Bloomberg's lackeys will deny and try to conceal the real numbers--and once again the Daily News or Post will rat them out and announce it with more screaming anti-bike headlines.

Should be interesting. Sorry I'm not more optimistic about this . . .

BBD

Minneapolis must be different than the rest. I doubt they have 10,000 bikes but have been expanding over the last couple of years. Ridership went from 100,000 rides in 2010 to 200,000 rides in 2011. Different culture?

[victoryfactory]

. . . along with several other thoughts. Many are going to be stolen and/or vandalized. The non-standard parts manufacture makes no difference. Local gang-bangers will steal them just to be stealing something.

Clueless tourists will rent them and get creamed by some of those cabs--and the anti-bike Daily News (or was it the Post?) will report every detail with screaming headlines.

Attrition rate will be horrible. Bloomberg's lackeys will deny and try to conceal the real numbers--and once again the Daily News or Post will rat them out and announce it with more screaming anti-bike headlines.

Should be interesting. Sorry I'm not more optimistic about this . . .

BBD

Hey Dave...
What? did you misplace your rose colored glasses this morning?
I also wonder if NYC is ready for this, but nothing ventured, nothing gained.

VF

[the bottle ride]

Well, lets hope it goes better than NYCs attempt at the Kiosk bathroom 10 years ago or so...

I love riding in the city- but on my own bike.
Locking it up is more of a concern than just having access to a commuter bike- I would like stiffer penalties for bike thievery,.