Ticket for running red light

[eolson124]

I post this as a head's up and to ask if others have had the same experience.

On a Saturday afternoon in December in Brooklyn's Prospect Park (which, at the time, was closed to vehicular traffic), a Police van with four of NYC's Finest pulled me over for running a red light. The cops acknowledged that I slowed (i.e., pulled up off my handlebars) and looked both ways before crossing the red light. Pedestrians, strollers, dogwalkers, children, crossing bikes, and horses were not around. My action endangered no one.

While I in no way challenge NYPD's right to take action, what the heck is going on? The must be some political motive behind ticketing me; I suspect that NYPD management wanted some scalps to appease a local anti-biking minority.

The worst part is that I have to appear in Court and cannot just mail in a fine.

BE ALERT, BUT DON'T BE AFRAID.

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . some months back and there were several threads here about it.

BBD

[Chris]

You should have jumped off your bike and fled on foot.

[fiamme red]

Sorry to hear about your summons. Unfortunately, people who train in the park are being scapegoated by the DOT and NYPD for a couple of unfortunate crashes.

I rode there once last week and didn't see any police activity. I thought the "chute" between barrels on the downhill didn't solve any problems, but actually created new ones.

[54ny77]

i'm going to take a wild guess, but.....maybe it's that you ran a red light?

:p

having lived on west coast for half of my life, where running reds is a big no-no (moving violation that hits the driving record & insurance), in all the years i lived in nyc i was always hesitant to run reds, especially if a cop was nearby. did i roll through them? of course, countless times. but in the countless times i actually stopped and waited, a side benefit was that my life was spared on many occasions, especially at blind intersections.

over the slog from cp to the gwb, the stopping cost me maybe 10 minutes total xtra time...which realy sucked in winter by the way. :bike:




While I in no way challenge NYPD's right to take action, what the heck is going on?

[SteveFrench]

I live upstate but I swear there is an article about NYC bike/pedestrain accidents in the Daily Post, every day. Personally I think it sucks you got a ticket, but I'm not surprised they are crackign down. Sorry for your **** luck. Will it add point to your driver's license?

[verticaldoug]

My buddy is using the red lights for cross training. Shoulders bike at light, runs across street, hops on, and pedals away. So far, no tickets

[EDS]

I post this as a head's up and to ask if others have had the same experience.

On a Saturday afternoon in December in Brooklyn's Prospect Park (which, at the time, was closed to vehicular traffic), a Police van with four of NYC's Finest pulled me over for running a red light. The cops acknowledged that I slowed (i.e., pulled up off my handlebars) and looked both ways before crossing the red light. Pedestrians, strollers, dogwalkers, children, crossing bikes, and horses were not around. My action endangered no one.

While I in no way challenge NYPD's right to take action, what the heck is going on? The must be some political motive behind ticketing me; I suspect that NYPD management wanted some scalps to appease a local anti-biking minority.

The worst part is that I have to appear in Court and cannot just mail in a fine.

BE ALERT, BUT DON'T BE AFRAID.

Ticket will get tossed if you show up in court, FYI - at least the tickets issued last year were.

[lhuerta]

Sounds like you didn't get the memo....the ticketing spree on cyclists in NYC has been going on for almost 12 months now. Things have calmed down a bit in Central Park but a few rogue cyclists in Prospect Park are still calling too much negative attention to cyclists in general.
Lou

See related threads below on the issue:

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=91162&highlight=ticketing

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=88389&highlight=ticketing

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=87599&highlight=ticketing

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=87545&highlight=ticketing

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=87227&highlight=ticketing

[leooooo]

Ticket will get tossed if you show up in court, FYI - at least the tickets issued last year were.

Yup. They were.
However some people can't afford to miss a days worth of work.

Like at CP, speeding tickets were given out again last week. We all know they will be thrown out like the last batch of speeding tickets

Sounds good for police stats, media, and general appeasement of public but the cyclists have been punished by taking a day off work.

[jlwdm]

You should get a ticket. Why do cyclists so often think the rules of the road do not apply to them. This is why so many car drivers get so mad with cyclists.

Jeff

[tiretrax]

If you ran a red light on a street open to traffic, it would be logical to get a ticket. My question to the judge would be that if the park was closed to vehicular traffic, why were you ticketed? If you slowed, pulled up from the bars, and were looking before entering the intersection, than what was gained? You should have had an expectation that the lights weren't an issue - i.e. a pedestrian walking through the intersection would not get a ticket for j-walking.

[fiamme red]

You should get a ticket. Why do cyclists so often think the rules of the road do not apply to them. This is why so many car drivers get so mad with cyclists.

JeffThe OP was riding in the park when the loop was closed to car traffic. It's been an unwritten rule for as long as I can remember that cyclists don't have to stop at red lights when there are no cars in the park, and no pedestrians around who are trying to cross.

[eolson124]

You should get a ticket. Why do cyclists so often think the rules of the road do not apply to them. This is why so many car drivers get so mad with cyclists.

Jeff

Jeff:

The law has a purpose, which is to protect public safety. As clearly described in my OP, there was no threat to the safety of any person. This was a technical gotcha. Without exception, I yield to all others; it's a matter of self preservation.

Go drive 55 on an empty highway.

EWO

[eolson124]

You should get a ticket. Why do cyclists so often think the rules of the road do not apply to them. This is why so many car drivers get so mad with cyclists.

Jeff

To what cars dor you refer?

[Fishbike]

The fact that the area was closed to car traffic does create mitigating facts. But, a red light is a red light. How many time do we sit in our cars at red lights when no one else is around? What should bikes be different?

Cyclists should stop at stop signs and red lights. Now -- I would be lying if I said I always do. But when I am driving I get very miffed at cyclists that blow through stop signs because it's dangerous and promotes the sterotype that cyclists think they own the road.

[laupsi]

perhaps I live in a hostile city, OMG, I actually do..., in Balmer running red lights isn't considered a crime if you do so in a motor driven vehicle. I see kids on motor bikes blazing through the streets; running stop signs, red lights and speeding all the while. the cops here are prohibited from chasing after them. it is truly unbelievable.

I do quite a bit of riding in and around the city. most of the messengers, commuters and general cyclists ride and obey the traffic signs and signals. if they didn't I doubt anything would come of it. guess crime is all relative or that's how they seem to treat it here...

[jlwdm]

To what cars dor you refer?


People in general that drive cars that are so tired of cyclists not obeying the rules of the road. I know a lot of them.

Can always move to Idaho. Red lights like stop signs and stop signs like yield signs for cyclists.

Jeff

[Wilkinson4]

A million years ago I got pulled over when I didn't come to a complete stop at an off ramp in BFE (I-25 and Greenland for you Colorado types). 07:30am, rolled though the stop at about 2 MPH and when I was getting back on the on ramp to head North the po-po pulls me over. Gives me a lecture, writes his ticket and I pay the damn fine.

I pretty much obey all laws, but at the intersection at that time I have seen cars do much worse. Nothing out there.

mIKE

[Mike748]

Locally, Keller is known to ticket cyclists for minor infractions. We have a lot of four-way stops meant to keep cars in check. I run a lot of those if there is no other traffic, but always yield to cars when they are there first. Now if only they would yield to me when its my turn. As for lights, most have camera sensors that won't recognize a bike. Left with the choice of waiting for a car, or getting off to push the ped crossing button, I usually stop, and proceed when its safe. I feel safer doing that than standing in the road waiting to be hit. Ultimately its about my safety, not what the cops think is right.

And as Jeff knows, I get a little upset with car drivers on occassion!

Rant over.

[oldpotatoe]

I post this as a head's up and to ask if others have had the same experience.

On a Saturday afternoon in December in Brooklyn's Prospect Park (which, at the time, was closed to vehicular traffic), a Police van with four of NYC's Finest pulled me over for running a red light. The cops acknowledged that I slowed (i.e., pulled up off my handlebars) and looked both ways before crossing the red light. Pedestrians, strollers, dogwalkers, children, crossing bikes, and horses were not around. My action endangered no one.

While I in no way challenge NYPD's right to take action, what the heck is going on? The must be some political motive behind ticketing me; I suspect that NYPD management wanted some scalps to appease a local anti-biking minority.

The worst part is that I have to appear in Court and cannot just mail in a fine.

BE ALERT, BUT DON'T BE AFRAID.

If you were in a car, would you have been ticketed?

Are bicycles considered 'vehicles' ala a auto?

I suspect the answer is yes and yes..stop at red lights, no political motive.

People on bikes that run red lights.......well, just stop at red lights.

[Vientomas]

Can always move to Idaho. Red lights like stop signs and stop signs like yield signs for cyclists.

Jeff

One of the few progressive laws on the books in Idaho. It is amazing how many motorists here complain about those renegade, no good, lycra clad, cyclists running stop signs. They are always shocked when they learn that cyclists have the right to do so. Then the cry is: "Change the laws and make them dern bikers obey all the same laws as cars."

[beungood]

If any of our guys ticketed a cyclist we would make fun of him until he quit the job.

[harryblack]

OP-- this is in a ** PARK ** that is then CLOSED TO CAR TRAFFIC, except for cops and service vehicles, etc.

It's 1000% politically motivated tho' not in any sense of 'party' politics; NYC and especially Brooklyn is an utterly corrupt ersatz "Democratic" oligarchy.

Unfortunately, NYPD and the anti-cyclist folks are too lazy, disinterested to do an actual crackdown on 'rogue' cyclists, pedestrians and cars, which they EASILY could--

* schmucks who ride wrong way on one way (including in the park)
* jerkoff cars, trucks etc that regularly blow red lights throughout Brooklyn and the city
* knucklehead pedestrians who jaywalk (also "illegal") with cell phones, ipods etc and not slightest attentiveness to their environment.
* Chinese delivery jerks on illegal unlicensed electric bicycles etc

The recent Prospect Park silliness is because some connected woman got t-boned by a some dude training and came away with head injuries; how bad they are and how much is legal posturing for a lawsuit I have no idea.

Within last 10-15 years, peds have been KILLED by cyclists without adverse effect; it's just one of those things and of course far more peds/cyclists are killed by cars/trucks without consequence.

I can think of DOZENS of ways to ticket reckless cyclists in NYC than by giving a red light ticket in a park that 1) has NEVER had such enforcement before and 2) turns blind eye every day to numerous more serious transgressions (including car speeding during the hours they are allowed).

If you were in a car, would you have been ticketed?

Are bicycles considered 'vehicles' ala a auto?

I suspect the answer is yes and yes..stop at red lights, no political motive.

People on bikes that run red lights.......well, just stop at red lights.

[pdmtong]

there are two intersections on my local loop. stop signs. you better put your foot down or else you get a ticket. the cops are in the bushes waiting. I know it. I put my foot down.

dont run a red light. it's the law, and it doesnt matter if the only harm would come to you.

that said, I do it occasionally leading up to my loop. if I was ever to get popped, well, it would be hard to argue it. write it off to just bad luck

[Fivethumbs]

I just tell the cops I left my driver license at home and my name is Mark Cavendish.

[Ti Designs]

Go drive 55 on an empty highway.


I think I'm the only person in the world who does that.

[jpw]

Red is for a reason, but occasionally I will roll through if the traffic circumstances mean it's safer for me to be on my way to get well ahead of a train of accelerating cars coming up from behind once the light goes to green. I've never been ticketed nor seen another cyclist ticketed.

I was in Munich last summer and cyclists do get collared all the time for riding on designated pedestrian areas, and that's happening to the locals. It's very difficult if you're a visitor to know which piece of path is and is not for cycling. Bikes are everywhere in Munich. The best big city I've cycled in so far for two wheeled travel. I was not really expecting it in the land of BMW, Mercedes Benz, and VW.

What really gets my goat is when pedestrians stand at the curb edge watching for the TRAFFIC light (my light) to change off green and then they IMMEDIATELY step in to the road BEFORE their pedestrian light has changed to green. There is a delay between the two lights changing for a reason, but no, some pedestrians will start crossing instantly and without even looking to see if a 'silent cyclist' is coming - really gets my goat.

[darkadious]

it sounds like a crappy situation.


although i've never ridden in the park, i would have stopped at the light - mainly because i wouldn't have "known".

[godfrey1112000]

Stop and make sure you follow the law, with out legal foundations in society aka traffic laws there is chaos

over look red light/stop sign violations, next step is to over look the bandits on charity rides

the world will rotate off its axis and chaos will prevail

Rioting in the streets and mayhem, aka people possible running over squirrels

There has to be Law and Order, that is why it is on TV so much

Oh, back to the OP, just stop save $100

If you were in a car, would you have been ticketed?

Are bicycles considered 'vehicles' ala a auto?

I suspect the answer is yes and yes..stop at red lights, no political motive.

People on bikes that run red lights.......well, just stop at red lights.

[ultraman6970]

What about non stopping, and just turn around against the traffic?? the cops wont shoot you or even follow you.

[R2D2]

I stop at red lights/stop signs for one simple reason (other than the law). NC is a contributary negligence state. If there is ever an accident and I'm shown to have been in any degree negligent it gets thrown out. Other states prorate
negligence but NC doesn't.

[fiamme red]

I rode there once last week and didn't see any police activity. I thought the "chute" between barrels on the downhill didn't solve any problems, but actually created new ones.The second accident since the DOT put up the stupid orange barrels:

http://www.brooklynpaper.com/stories/35/2/dtg_prospectparkcrash_2012_1_13_bk.html

Note the dangerous ideas proposed by a "traffic planner":

To keep cyclists from going too fast, the city could force bicyclists to take a zigzagging path on the hill, requiring them to cut their speed before they start their descent, said Jamie Parks, a traffic planner at Kittleson and Associates, an engineering firm that specializes in bicycle transit in bike-loving cities including Portland, Ore.

“One option is to physically curve the path on the hill to slow down cyclists,” Parks said.

Or the city could install speed bump-like devices, like rumble strips for bikes, he said. Those strips would be similar to what already exist at pedestrian crossings along the controversial Prospect Park West bike lane.

There was another serious crash due to the barrels in December:

http://www.brooklynpaper.com/stories/34/50/dtg_newparkcrash_2011_12_16_bk.html

:crap:

[Charles M]

The world has a$$hole cops...and a$$hole cyclists.

Chicken-egg-chicken-egg-chicken.........

Sometimes you get a little yolk or feathers on you from the battle

[William]

Rides like these certainly don't help the cyclists in the motorists eyes....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVdiEm1_Z3E&feature=related






William

[verticaldoug]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_nZHSOxy2I

We are all soft.

[oldguy00]

The OP was riding in the park when the loop was closed to car traffic. It's been an unwritten rule for as long as I can remember that cyclists don't have to stop at red lights when there are no cars in the park, and no pedestrians around who are trying to cross.

Hate to say i, but I agree with him/her getting a ticket. When it comes to the law, you don't go by 'unwritten rules'. It's a red light, not a stop sign. It doesn't matter if it is a park, if there was any danger, etc. It's the law.

[fiamme red]

Hate to say i, but I agree with him/her getting a ticket. When it comes to the law, you don't go by 'unwritten rules'. It's a red light, not a stop sign. It doesn't matter if it is a park, if there was any danger, etc. It's the law.Jaywalking is also illegal in NYC. But it's almost never enforced. If police started giving out random tickets for jaywalking, people would complain to local officials, and the ticketing would soon stop. But of course jaywalkers are the majority, cyclists are a tiny minority.

[jpw]

The second accident since the DOT put up the stupid orange barrels:

http://www.brooklynpaper.com/stories/35/2/dtg_prospectparkcrash_2012_1_13_bk.html

Note the dangerous ideas proposed by a "traffic planner":

To keep cyclists from going too fast, the city could force bicyclists to take a zigzagging path on the hill, requiring them to cut their speed before they start their descent, said Jamie Parks, a traffic planner at Kittleson and Associates, an engineering firm that specializes in bicycle transit in bike-loving cities including Portland, Ore.

“One option is to physically curve the path on the hill to slow down cyclists,” Parks said.

Or the city could install speed bump-like devices, like rumble strips for bikes, he said. Those strips would be similar to what already exist at pedestrian crossings along the controversial Prospect Park West bike lane.

There was another serious crash due to the barrels in December:

http://www.brooklynpaper.com/stories/34/50/dtg_newparkcrash_2011_12_16_bk.html

:crap:

"Cones"? They're not cones, they're lethal weapons. How big? I've seen smaller lighthouses.

[benitosan1972]

I got pulled over by 2/undercovers + 1/marked Interstate Troopers in Hondo, Texas for running 6 consecutive red lights on a quiet stretch of Interstate that ran through their downtown.

Conversation:

them- "where are you from, boy?"
me- "San Francisco/Bay Area, California"
them- "what do you do with red lights out there?"
me- "slow down, roll 'em, run 'em, continue on"
them- "well here in Texas, we obey all traffic laws"
me- "sorry, I didn't know"
them- "ok, well don't do it again"
me- "thanks, I won't"

They were really threatening with their moustaches & Texas Walker Ranger hats, and I was a sitting duck in a small town, but they let me go with a stern, Southern warning, thank God!