Help me understand Paypal

[Dan Le foot]

Hi gang.
If we are selling directly to a buyer (not in Ebay) can Paypal hold our money for 21 days?
We are considering shipping to an foreign buyer that is using a re-shipper out of Portland.
We are nervous about shipping before we actually can get our hands on the funds. Say the bike gets lost or broken from Portland to wherever and the buyer files a claim with paypal.
Thanks
Dan

[Ralph]

Contrary to what some think.....I've had pretty good luck getting answers from them by signing on, going to contact, and speaking with someone. They work just like a bank. Good luck.

[steampunk]

You are rightfully concerned, especially if this is a high-$ item.

"If we are selling directly to a buyer (not in Ebay) can Paypal hold our money for 21 days?"

->Yes they can, for a variety of reasons that are not entirely clear and open about.

In case of a dispute, I think PP would require proof that you sent it to the buyer, and all you'd have is proof up to the re-shipper (I assume this is a freight forwarding company, a common, legitimate service though). While the paper trail from the forwarder will be available that's another thing you have to chase down in case of a dispute. Maybe before you ship it be very clear in communicating that your responsibility is up to delivery to the forwarder. Start laying down a paper trail and document everything. Obtain the buyer's contact at the forwarder, and communicate with them directly to confirm the information and verify that the buyer has made arrangements before you ship it. There should be a real live person or agent at the forwarder's end who is taking care of the buyer's account. Take pictures of the item while you're packing it and right in the box (whist open) at your point of shipping. Paranoid, yes, but you never know when a buyer will say you shipped a box of rocks.

I shipped a bike overseas through a forwarder and had the same concerns since anytime you have a hand-off there's a potential for a screw up. In this case I was even sending the bike to a relative but still documented everything in case what was at the receiving end is damaged or otherwise not as shipped and we had to deal with claims. HTH.

Also, there is another recent horror story about PP. Just google paypal and violin.

[Dan Le foot]

You are rightfully concerned, especially if this is a high-$ item.

"If we are selling directly to a buyer (not in Ebay) can Paypal hold our money for 21 days?"

->Yes they can, for a variety of reasons that are not entirely clear and open about.

In case of a dispute, I think PP would require proof that you sent it to the buyer, and all you'd have is proof up to the re-shipper (I assume this is a freight forwarding company, a common, legitimate service though). While the paper trail from the forwarder will be available that's another thing you have to chase down in case of a dispute. Maybe before you ship it be very clear in communicating that your responsibility is up to delivery to the forwarder. Start laying down a paper trail and document everything. Obtain the buyer's contact at the forwarder, and communicate with them directly to confirm the information and verify that the buyer has made arrangements before you ship it. There should be a real live person or agent at the forwarder's end who is taking care of the buyer's account. Take pictures of the item while you're packing it and right in the box (whist open) at your point of shipping. Paranoid, yes, but you never know when a buyer will say you shipped a box of rocks.

I shipped a bike overseas through a forwarder and had the same concerns since anytime you have a hand-off there's a potential for a screw up. In this case I was even sending the bike to a relative but still documented everything in case what was at the receiving end is damaged or otherwise not as shipped and we had to deal with claims. HTH.

Also, there is another recent horror story about PP. Just google paypal and violin.
Thanks Mr. Steam.
The re-shipper only takes Paypal and has something called "buyer protection".
Unless the buyer will wait until Paypal relases funds prior to our shipping, I think we will tell him to forget about it.
Dan

[HenryA]

Tell them to send a U. S. Postal money order and then cash it.
Cash it - don't deposit it in your bank.
Then ship the item.

That's about the only way you can be sure on these kind of deals. There are other methods offering a wide variety of security. You have to pick how much risk you can live with.

In the past I've taken checks from overseas but I waited until my bank guaranteed them cleared which took not a few days or a week but 3-4 weeks. If your buyer will wait that long you might try that approach.

Paypal's rules make sure Paypal does not get left holding the bag. You have to make sure you don't get left holding the bag, which means using a little creativity and a bit of savvy on your part. Just think it through.

[Dan Le foot]

Tell them to send a U. S. Postal money order and then cash it.
Cash it - don't deposit it in your bank.
Then ship the item.

That's about the only way you can be sure on these kind of deals. There are other methods offering a wide variety of security. You have to pick how much risk you can live with.

In the past I've taken checks from overseas but I waited until my bank guaranteed them cleared which took not a few days or a week but 3-4 weeks. If your buyer will wait that long you might try that approach.

Paypal's rules make sure Paypal does not get left holding the bag. You have to make sure you don't get left holding the bag, which means using a little creativity and a bit of savvy on your part. Just think it through.
Thanks.
We are trying the USPS option but I think his re-shipper has a deal with Paypal and that is the only currency they work with.
Dan

[buldogge]

Paypal to the re-shipper for his fees (from the buyer)
Old school bank wire transfer to you for the bike funds (from the buyer).

???

-Mark in St. Louis

[steampunk]

If you're uncomfortable with the risk don't proceed with the transaction.

Might save you a lot of grief later on.

[Steelman]

Even if the bike makes it there in perfect shape, there is a possibility of two things happening:

1. If the buyer used a credit card to fund the PayPal transaction, he could call the card co. and have them issue a chargeback based on issues perceived or real

2. He could file a claim with PayPal that the goods were not as described

Remember, PayPal almost always sides with the buyer. Do not use PayPal for more than you can afford to lose.

[Dan Le foot]

Even if the bike makes it there in perfect shape, there is a possibility of two things happening:

1. If the buyer used a credit card to fund the PayPal transaction, he could call the card co. and have them issue a chargeback based on issues perceived or real

2. He could file a claim with PayPal that the goods were not as described

Remember, PayPal almost always sides with the buyer. Do not use PayPal for more than you can afford to lose.
Thanks Steelman.
The buyer said he would give us $200 to ship directly to Taiwan using Paypal. But we needed to declare a $100 value ($1500 frameset).
We told him we pass on his offer.
BTW
I sold a real nice set of Speedplay X2 pedals and slightly used cleats on Eaby a while ago. My listing said no returns. The winning bidder didn't like the fact that the cleats were not new and filed a claim with ebay/paypal. ("not as described") Despite my listing clearly saying used and no returns accepted, I lost. Looks like if a buyer gets the "buyer protection program" the seller is going to lose if a dispute occurs.
Dan
Dan

[BumbleBeeDave]

http://www.paypalsucks.com/

Granted, they have an agenda, but there might be some useful info there.

To me PayPal is a necessary evil. I trust them no farther than I could pick up their HQ building and throw it. EBay does all they can to force you to use them and in order to get an account you agree to terms that basically strip you of all your rights. Bottom line is they can do pretty much whatever they want.

I keep no funds in my actual PayPal account. I have a separate checking account that I use only for PayPal and I never keep more than $25 in there. No way am I going to give them any approval to reach into any account I have with major dollars in it. I've seen so many horror stories that I have no reason to trust them.

BBD