OT: Buying wine.

[false_Aest]

Heyo,

My friends son just turned 1.

During the party I got the idea of purchasing a bottle from 2010 and giving it to them to keep until he turns 21.

Obviously I could buy any ol bottle from 2010 but I'd like it to end up being on the good side of things in 2031. Is there a way to go about doing this?


Thanks


Oh yeah.

Long time no talk.

[maunahaole]

You need to go see a good wine seller or vineyard and tell them what you want to do. A good quality wine will have estimates on when it will reach peak flavor in the bottle. Some wines do better with staying in the bottle for extended periods of time. The bulk of stuff out there, i.e. from the grocery, will be vinegar by then. The recipient will also need to store it appropriately.

Cool idea.

[cat6]

But probably won't work out the way you'd like it to. Not stored in proper conditions will end up meh after 20 years. Maybe some wine folks can chime in with suggestions to make it work. Nice idea nonetheless.

[flydhest]

Going out on a limb, but if he just turned one . . . wasn't he born in 2011?

Teasing. I assume you mean December. My daughter's first birthday was the day before yesterday, so I am fixated.

OK, so here's the deal. Not every wine is meant to last 20 years and improve. In fact, the vast majority of wines--even very good ones, are not built that way. Most wines that are intended for that sort of storage, as well, tend to be aged in barrels for a while, sometimes years, before they are bottled and thereafter released. As a result, you may not have a selection right now of what you want to buy to hold on to.

It is cliche, but cliche for a reason, that Bordeaux age very well. You will not be able to buy much if any of the 2010 yet. In addition, the views are that the top wines will be even pricier. On the other hand, it was supposed to be a great vintage from the reports of the barrel tastings. I would look for a wine shop that you generally trust (have some fun, buy three or four bottles on their recommendation, one at a time, report back what you like and don't like for each, and see if after three bottles they hit something you like. If so, it is a wine shop you can trust.) Buy a St. Estephe or something that will be tannic, as that will further ensure longevity.

You don't have to break the bank, in my view. Good (but not hellaciously coveted) Bordeaux that have been aged that long are really good. Even the $25 to $35 bottles will be an education for a 21 year old. you will be a legend.

[Cinci Jim]

3 liters or 6 liters

Also I would consider proper storage. Depending on your location you might be able to rent a wine locker.

[UKBROOKLYN]

Heres the thing. Vintages are sometimes declared a year or two after they are made. In other words wine changes from year to year some years of the same wines are better than others. Also wine continues to change character over the years. It's impossible to know which wines that are good now will be good in another 20 years.
Solution.. and I like this one a lot.
Buy a case of super nice Single malt whiskey, or a few bottles of really good Napoleon Brandy. This stuff keeps for years and is lovely jubbley.

I still recall a wonderful evening I spent about 20 years ago with a pal of mine who had laid his hands on a bottle of 1918 Napoleon. Quite a long evening ensued...at one point I suggested we re cork the bottle and save some. He would have none of it, explaining that there is no time like the present to enjoy the heavenly syrup.. and so we did..

[tiretrax]

Storage is the key. Does anyone in your family or your friend's have a wine cellar? You'll probably should wait a year or two to find a good Bordeaux. Also, see if 2010 was declared a vintage for port. They are easy to store and keep well. You could always pick up a bottle of Dom and keep it in the fridge if you're concerned about storing still wine.

[thinpin]

Going out on a limb, but if he just turned one . . . wasn't he born in 2011?

Teasing. I assume you mean December. My daughter's first birthday was the day before yesterday, so I am fixated.

OK, so here's the deal. Not every wine is meant to last 20 years and improve. In fact, the vast majority of wines--even very good ones, are not built that way. Most wines that are intended for that sort of storage, as well, tend to be aged in barrels for a while, sometimes years, before they are bottled and thereafter released. As a result, you may not have a selection right now of what you want to buy to hold on to.

It is cliche, but cliche for a reason, that Bordeaux age very well. You will not be able to buy much if any of the 2010 yet. In addition, the views are that the top wines will be even pricier. On the other hand, it was supposed to be a great vintage from the reports of the barrel tastings. I would look for a wine shop that you generally trust (have some fun, buy three or four bottles on their recommendation, one at a time, report back what you like and don't like for each, and see if after three bottles they hit something you like. If so, it is a wine shop you can trust.) Buy a St. Estephe or something that will be tannic, as that will further ensure longevity.

You don't have to break the bank, in my view. Good (but not hellaciously coveted) Bordeaux that have been aged that long are really good. Even the $25 to $35 bottles will be an education for a 21 year old. you will be a legend.
On the money here esp the bordeaux. I would also add good storage is not just a good idea but absolutely vital. The wine will be rotten if stashed under the stairs in "cool" place

[thinpin]

Heres the thing. Vintages are sometimes declared a year or two after they are made. In other words wine changes from year to year some years of the same wines are better than others. Also wine continues to change character over the years. It's impossible to know which wines that are good now will be good in another 20 years.
Solution.. and I like this one a lot.
Buy a case of super nice Single malt whiskey, or a few bottles of really good Napoleon Brandy. This stuff keeps for years and is lovely jubbley.

I still recall a wonderful evening I spent about 20 years ago with a pal of mine who had laid his hands on a bottle of 1918 Napoleon. Quite a long evening ensued...at one point I suggested we re cork the bottle and save some. He would have none of it, explaining that there is no time like the present to enjoy the heavenly syrup.. and so we did..
Strewth! A bottle of brandy between 2. The last 6 glasses might as well have been any old muck don't you think!

[saab2000]

I would also add good storage is not just a good idea but absolutely vital. The wine will be rotten if stashed under the stairs in "cool" place

Fair enough. What constitutes good storage. I ask because I don't know.

[pdmtong]

Fair enough. What constitutes good storage. I ask because I don't know.

constant temp. 55d is a good place to start. temps spikes kill wine.

[thinpin]

Constant temp, no light and no vibrations. I rent a storage unit for wine and it works out about $1 per bottle per year.

[UKBROOKLYN]

Strewth! A bottle of brandy between 2. The last 6 glasses might as well have been any old muck don't you think!

In hind sight probably yes.. but in that moment BLISS

[UKBROOKLYN]

Put 100 dollars in a CD or some sort of deposit or investment account and buy a really great wine in 20 years time.

[Louis]

Just build yourself one of these in your basement, and get the temp and humidity right:

http://www.cheapwinefinder.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/WineCellarImage.jpg

[Ken Robb]

I have given monogrammed pewter glass-bottom mugs to babies and got kudos from the recipients when they were old enough to enjoy them with appropriate beverages. That eliminates the storage problem.

If you really want to give wine I think a good Port will probably continue to improve in the bottle over the years with less chance of going off. I don't think distilled spirits "age" improve once they are bottled but they can deteriorate if the cork allows air to get in.

[echelon_john]

My father in law did this for my daughter; there's a nice stash waiting for her to come of age that's in storage with a very well known wine merchant that offers this as a service. The storage is really critical, as others have noted.

[pdmtong]

I don't think distilled spirits "age" improve once they are bottled but they can deteriorate if the cork allows air to get in.

this is true. unlike wine, single malt, etc. once bottled STOP improving.

[firerescuefin]

Heyo,

My friends son just turned 1.

During the party I got the idea of purchasing a bottle from 2010 and giving it to them to keep until he turns 21.

Obviously I could buy any ol bottle from 2010 but I'd like it to end up being on the good side of things in 2031. Is there a way to go about doing this?


Thanks


Oh yeah.

Long time no talk.


Missed seeing you (an your wit) on here. How's the quantity/quality of the riding with your little guy around....whole new game...isn't it?

[AgilisMerlin]

buy madeira colheita or vintage

aged/barrels then bottle aged. you won't be able to find one for a bit because they spend quite a few years aging.

had one from 1875 and it was stunning.

http://www.rakuten.co.jp/wineuki/img10163320428.jpeg

[ORMojo]

Several of the Oregon wineries we are members or owners of maintain "when to drink" lists. These are very helpful for knowing which wines/vintages we should be pulling out of the storage unit in any given year.

I did a quick look through a couple of the current lists, and there is nothing currently listed with a 2031 recommendation.

It will be a crap shoot (or worse odds) trying to pick a specific 2010 vintage wine now that will be good in 20-21 years. It really varies greatly from year-to-year, and can not be predicted 21 years out until the wine has been in the bottle at least a couple of years.

Here is one example of a "when to drink" list from one of the wineries we have belonged to the longest. http://www.broadleyvineyards.com/home/brd/listitems_15/when_to_drink_wine.html Note that the 1994 vintage is projected for drinking now through 2015 (coincidentally, 21 years), but the '95-'97 vintages say drink "now" and the '98 & '00-'01 vintages say "NOW."

You could also simply rely on the recommendations (guesses?) of the recognized wine reviewers. A quick google search, and a selection of the hits based on names I knew, resulted in possibilities for 2031 . . . but NONE of them are 2010 vintages -- again, it is just too early to know how the 2010s will fair that far out. For example:
Stonewell Shiraz 2006 Deep crimson-purple, remarkable for age, although it was a great vintage, the transition from American to French oak has added lustre to the bouquet and medium-bodied palate; the dark fruites and bitter chocolate flavours are intense and long, with a matrix of juicy and savoury characters to play with. 14.5% alc. Rating 96 Drink to 2031. $90

Finally, along with the port/madeira recommendations above, one very strong possibility is to consider a Sauterne. The best Sauternes actually get better over very long periods of time - 20, 30, 40 or more years. I have Sauternes cellared that are up to 70 years old, and I've never opened an old Sauterne that disappointed. If a fantastic desert wine meets the criteria, this is the one wine I can think of where you might be making the safest bet, while being able to buy a 2010 vintage today/this year. My Château d'Yquem Sauternes consistently age the best, and are widely recognized for that characteristic.

[tannhauser]

Bad ideer. It'll be dead. Perhaps we all will be.

[R2D2]

I have been collecting wines for many years.
Firts as others have said some wines are menat to be drunk on release.
Others, Bordeaux and "old school" Barolo, can improve greatly with proper storage and age. Proper storage means a dark 55 degrees with decent humidity. The problem with Bordeaux meant the long haul is they have become extermely expensive in recent years. Firsts growths (Lafite,Margaux,Mouton,Haut Brion .....) can now fetch close to 1000.00 a bottle. Additonally there's and old sayin there are no great old vintages only great old bottles. In the same case, stored for years one bottle can be fantastic and the next crap.

But you can also consider over achieving 2nd and 3rd growths and buy a case depending on your budget.
If you do decide to proceed do some research. There are excellent professional tasters such as Steven Tanzer or Robert Parker that make their living revewing wines in each vintage. Barrel samples are evaluated usually in the spring following the vintage harvest. The wine is then usually reviewed again the following spring once bottled ( Bordeaux sees 18 to 24 months in the barrel). Then the vintage will show up the market in late spring or in the fall.
If storing wine for the long haul it is very important to buy it as soon as released to avoid any worries of the merchant stroing improperly. It is also important to use a very reliable retailer/importer/shipper. It is amazing how many bottles are heat damaged during shipping.

[thinpin]

In hind sight probably yes.. but in that moment BLISS
You are right. The company is more important then the booze!

[thinpin]

buy madeira colheita or vintage

aged/barrels then bottle aged. you won't be able to find one for a bit because they spend quite a few years aging.

had one from 1875 and it was stunning.

http://www.rakuten.co.jp/wineuki/img10163320428.jpeg
I bet it was. Now there's an eclectic taste.

[rugbysecondrow]

I was reading about this same topic yesterday. One of the suggestions was to buy a wine bottle in the year of the kids birth, but buy it closer to when it would be consumed. That way you get a purposefully aged drinkable beverage while also having something bottled in the year of the kids birth. WIN WIN

[Dekonick]

Storage is the key. Does anyone in your family or your friend's have a wine cellar? You'll probably should wait a year or two to find a good Bordeaux. Also, see if 2010 was declared a vintage for port. They are easy to store and keep well. You could always pick up a bottle of Dom and keep it in the fridge if you're concerned about storing still wine.

Port is a GREAT solution.

[Dekonick]

Just build yourself one of these in your basement, and get the temp and humidity right:

http://www.cheapwinefinder.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/WineCellarImage.jpg

Awesome. WIsh I had one (or better yet - the wine...)

[djg]

There have been many good suggestions about how to approach this. And folks are right about storage -- put a nice bottle of wine on a kitchen wine rack for a couple of years, much less two decades, and you might ruin it.

So I'll just take a different route and suggest a particular bottle -- or a future, if you want the 2010 (you can actually buy futures on Bordeaux wines). Chateau Gloria is a very nice, age-worthy Bordeaux -- it's not an inexpensive wine, but because it's a Cru Bourgeois from St. Julien, it's much less expensive than some other options, and vastly less expensive than the sorts of wines from select classified growths that are chased by collectors. The nice thing for lay-away gift purposes is that it's a very well known and well-regarded Cru Bourgeois, which enables you to give a recognizable, age-worthy Bordeaux for maybe 50 bucks or so. There are other options that fit this bill. And there are lovely wines available at half the price and less. But again -- accessible, age-worthy, from a well-known house at a price . . .

[false_Aest]

Thanks all.

I gotta do some research I guess.

[WickedWheels]

You guys are all missing something... It only needs to last another 14 years or so. By the time the kid is 15 he will go through the bottle with his friends.

[nicrump]

buy an '06 duckhorn or silver oak cab and drink it now. take him to a bar when he is 21.

[SamIAm]

This seems like a neat idea, but it almost never works out well according to threads I have read on various wine forums.

Port is a better option.

[Ozz]

3 liters or 6 liters

Also I would consider proper storage. Depending on your location you might be able to rent a wine locker.
+14
Still going to be tricky to get it to peak in 20 years

[Sasha18]

I've always liked this idea of buying wine to commemorate a birth year.

But I'm also reminded of a co-worker who did the same thing for his daughter. He bought a whole case of rather nice Burgundy - definitely not the bargain stuff. On her 21er, she and her friends chug-a-lugged most of the case. What a loss. There are times when a cheap bottle of vodka is the best choice.

[rugbysecondrow]

I've always liked this idea of buying wine to commemorate a birth year.

But I'm also reminded of a co-worker who did the same thing for his daughter. He bought a whole case of rather nice Burgundy - definitely not the bargain stuff. On her 21er, she and her friends chug-a-lugged most of the case. What a loss. There are times when a cheap bottle of vodka is the best choice.


I am well acquainted with the type. :beer:

[verticaldoug]

The problem with wine is the storage. I have some nice 1st growths I laid down in the 80's and these are still going strong. Although, with the interest from the Chinese, the wines that will last, are priced high.

In my opinion, I'd buy a couple of bottles of Chateau d'Yquem. It is relatively rare, expensive and can be enjoyed with family as a dessert wine after the meal. This wine is really extraordinary as it ages. It is yellow when young and slowly turns golden as it ages followed by increasingly dark shades of amber. In 20 years it may be gold in color and wonderful. The point is to drink it with family and adults.

You might also consider a Port. Do not get a tawny but vintage. Port is another one that just gets mellower and mellower with age.

I actually did the reverse with my dad. After I left home, whenever I went back to visit my parents, I bought a few bottle to lay down. In my father's cellar I have a nice collection of some real classics. When I go to visit now, we always open a few of the oldies to catch up.

[LouDeeter]

Saw this wine label in an email offering today. There are several other wine bottles that have bicycles on the labels as well.

[maunahaole]

I have tried the Cono Sur wine. Good, not great. Other South American wines at that price point which are better. Cool bikes on the labels, though.

[znfdl]

I would buy either:

1. A vintage port
2. A good german ice wine
3. Hungarian 5 Puntonos Tokay Azsu

These three wines are meant to age 20+ years.....

[Polyglot]

I saw this yesterday:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3p7s9_usbwineflv_fun


It seems to be germane to this discussion about wine. :D

[Aaron O]

OT - but I feel like sharing...

Me and the wife were at a BYOB in town and a couple next to us pulled a box wine from a book bag, put it at the end of the table and filled their glasses as though from a tap.

[AngryScientist]

OT - but I feel like sharing...

Me and the wife were at a BYOB in town and a couple next to us pulled a box wine from a book bag, put it at the end of the table and filled their glasses as though from a tap.

baller

[Aaron O]

If I ever write a romantic comedy, I'm definitely including that in a scene.

[Kevan]

Contact a winery of your choosing and see if they'll agree to a futures contract.

http://www.forbes.com/2009/07/13/livex-wines-futures-markets-equity-entrepreneur.html

[Hardlyrob]

You have some great advice here. If you want to go with wine, bigger bottles are better (smaller portion of wine exposed to oxygen through the cork), and a good Bordeaux in the right vintage is a good bet. But storage is EVERYTHING.

As others have pointed out the fortified wines - port, sherry, madiera etc. age wonderfully, and are not nearly as sensitive to heat and light exposure. I believe it was a British practice to lay down port at the birth of a child, but I'm not completely certain. This is the route I would go - it's also less likely that the kid will slosh it all down as sangria on their 21st.

The other alternative is the dessert wines - white wines are somewhat less sensitive to light, heat and oxygen. The reco's are great - Chateau d'Yqem, Tokay, Icevine (there are some truly great NY and Canadian icevines out there today).

Good luck, and let us know what you end up doing.

Cheers! :beer:
Rob

[dziehr]

Lucky kid. Keep in mind, though, for this generous gesture to have its desired effect, you must introduce him to wine a few years before his 21st so he can begin to develop his palate. I'm 25 and am only beginning to discern what I like and why. Offering him the opportunity to develop an appreciation for wine is, alone, a wonderful gift, and one that will serve him both in his personal and professional life.

[Ken Robb]

I'm volunteering to be the godfather so I may cash in on some good wine. :beer:

[thinpin]

Lucky kid. Keep in mind, though, for this generous gesture to have its desired effect, you must introduce him to wine a few years before his 21st so he can begin to develop his palate. I'm 25 and am only beginning to discern what I like and why. Offering him the opportunity to develop an appreciation for wine is, alone, a wonderful gift, and one that will serve him both in his personal and professional life.
Good point. I drank some awful gutrot as a youth and thought it OK.

[slinkywizard]

I'd suggest a nice amarone...I've been drinking '83, '88, '93 Masi amarones (nothing spectacular when it's young) that were lovely with age...
Or get a nice one such as Quintarelli or Dal forno romano...even their valpolicella will be quite fine in 20 years or so when stored correctly

[SamIAm]

Maybe you could use this as a teaching experience. If you go with wine, buy a couple bottles, store one properly and one improperly, open them both up on the 21st birthday.

[MattTuck]

My vote is that you're about to pour some money down the drain...

Keeping an individual bottle of wine stored correctly for 21 years is a pain!! Every time you move, you'll have to be dealing with it, etc. Almost assured to be vinegar by the time it's drunk. Even if you have it stored professionally, and then move, it's not like you're going to leave it at the storage place and go back for it 15 years later.

Better option, IMO, is to take him to a place with a nice wine list when he's old enough and get him a bottle of the vintage you want.

http://www.stonehedgeinnandspa.com/modules/pdf.cfm?menuid=ME_20090212095802948215

As an example... Some ~20 year old bottles are on there.


A more rewarding gift might be finding news papers and magazines and other stuff that talks about what is relevant in today's world, from the birth year, and giving it to them when they're older. They probably won't even know what a news paper is....