Let the Excuses Fly

[dirtdigger88]

This weekend was kinda funny- I went out on sunday with a couple of my "normal" riding buddies- The beginning of the ride started with the expected "Dude- where's the Legend?" comments-

After re-explaining myself a few dozon times everyone now understood- I sold it- Not a single member of my ride acted like they understood- but thats cool- i didnt expect them too- My go fast buddies who look and ride the "pro" way are not going to understand selling a race bike :no:

Next came the jabs for the way I have my Zurich set up now- I am trying larger tires- 27mm Ruffy Tuffys - and just to see how I like them I have two large bags on it- on in the rear on one out front- I really freaked them out with the Brooks saddle- "Dude- have you lost your mind?" "I hope your a** hurts." I heard at one point- "You're going to be to slow to ride with us- what are you thinking?"

My buddies- (dont get me wrong I like them all- and enjoy our rides) are the type who are adding every carbon bit known to man- if the part isnt uber light or at least pro approved- its just not worth having. They are just not able to understand that I am willingly adding weight to my bike- :confused:

How'd the ride go- I did about 90% of the pulls during our 45 miler on Sunday- we kept an average of just under 20mph which is good considering the stop and go nature and the hills of much of the loop-

Best comment of the entire ride was from my last buddy to pull off at the end of the ride-

"I dont understand why you are doing this- but you are NOT slower- thats for sure!" :p ;) :cool:

I was waiting for that all day!!!

Jason

[Too Tall]

Jason, I missed so of you other posts. Are you thinking of trying some Brevets and centuries? Inquiring minds....

[Big Dan]

DD, I had a similar deal happen to me yesterday. Went out on my 93 Lemond GLX with downtube friction shifters and was told by a fat guy riding a full on Merlin Cielo to "get a real bike and learn how to ride". Too bad for him I was next to him the whole way back................. :D

Do your thing and don't worry about them.............

:bike:

[dirtdigger88]

Big D- on Saturday I followed the rail road track leading south out of down town St. Louis- they run along the flood wall- a mix of loose dirt and gravel and access roads of the various business that use river access- I was hammering down this section when I saw a cyclist ahead of me- so of course I had to pick up the pace to catch up-

The guys is riding a decked out MTB- I pulled up next to him and said HI-- he takes one look at me and says "If you were smart you would get a MTB and not waste time on the road bike" To which I promptly said have a great day and pulled away-

It is quite refreshing to do 25 mph down a gravel road

Jason

[Big Dan]

Educating fellow cyclist for free..................

I like......................... :beer:

[Ozz]

...After re-explaining myself a few dozon times everyone now understood- I sold it- Not a single member of my ride acted like they understood- but thats cool- i didnt expect them too- My go fast buddies who look and ride the "pro" way are not going to understand selling a race bike :no: ...
you're buddies are messed up...you did the right thing! ;)

[dirtdigger88]

you're buddies are messed up...you did the right thing! ;)

nah- they're cool- they just need a bit of schooling

Jason

[Ozz]

..."I dont understand why you are doing this- but you are NOT slower- thats for sure!" :p ;) :cool: ...
class has started!! :D

(BTW - I wasn't dissn' your buddies...too much :banana: )

[dirtdigger88]

class has started!! :D




;)

Jason

[Ti Designs]

I have this rule: closest bike to the door with air in the tires is what I ride. I show up on lots of rides on the wrong bike - so what? Most people put way too much emphasis on the bike and not enough on the rider. I say let the schooling begin.

The other week I wound up taking out my tandem as a short distance commuter (it had rained and the tandem doesn't need a rear fender if I'm riding solo, the back wheel is waaaaay back there). So I'm riding down the bike path when two guys on racing bikes go by, trading pulls. I hop on - it's just a force of habit... My tandem is a 47 pound Ritchey Skyliner with drop bars and slick tires (and 70 watts of lighting and an air horn), but the bike path is flat and once it's up to speed it's fine. They tried to drop me for a few miles, then they gave up and let me take pulls...

One thing I tell my riders when I set them up on fixed gears for the winter - at some point you'll forget that the bike puts you at a disadvantage, and that's when it starts getting good.

[Big Dan]

Ti you are right, even when you are at a disadvantage some of the difference can be made up by anticipating what is coming up ahead.

A know a guy that rides a 70's Merckx's S/R friction shifters, tubular under the seat...
when he goes to the front of the group he signals when he is going to shift....


We barely hang on................. :p

[Dekonick]

DD, I had a similar deal happen to me yesterday. Went out on my 93 Lemond GLX with downtube friction shifters and was told by a fat guy riding a full on Merlin Cielo to "get a real bike and learn how to ride". Too bad for him I was next to him the whole way back................. :D

Do your thing and don't worry about them.............

:bike:

Just shows his ignorance -

hope you learned alot from him :cool:

he probably thinks E-Richie's bikes come from that ''Sachs on 5th ave..." and Serotta is Italian...

at least the guy is riding. (I have no room to talk being a chunker not on a clunker ATM :no: )

[vaxn8r]

The other week I wound up taking out my tandem as a short distance commuter (it had rained and the tandem doesn't need a rear fender if I'm riding solo, the back wheel is waaaaay back there). So I'm riding down the bike path when two guys on racing bikes go by, trading pulls.
I know you are super experienced and already know this but many probably don't. You can get yourself or someone else seriously hurt doing that. It's really hard to stop a tandem with no weight over the rear wheel. Double that since you were riding in the rain. I knew of someone who died riding his tandem alone down a curved descent, right into oblivion. If I were to try something like what you did I'd recommend never in the rain, only a relatively flat course and not with anyone else pacing in front or behind.

Just my $.02

[Ti Designs]

I know you are super experienced and already know this but many probably don't. You can get yourself or someone else seriously hurt doing that. It's really hard to stop a tandem with no weight over the rear wheel. Double that since you were riding in the rain. I knew of someone who died riding his tandem alone down a curved descent, right into oblivion. If I were to try something like what you did I'd recommend never in the rain, only a relatively flat course and not with anyone else pacing in front or behind.


So I'm guessing that going off road on a fixed gear wouldn't be high on your to-do list either :rolleyes:

I can certainly agree with one point, no stoker means a tail happy tandem. I can't see doing a fast, twisty descent solo for that reason, but with an inch of snow at much lower speeds the thing is a real hoot in corners. The bike path is about as flat and straight as they get, and even solo I can probably slow the tandem faster than any single bike could drop anchor. The problem I always have is people creaping up on the sides. One of the stokers jobs it to warn people on singles that they'll get squished if they stay there.

[vaxn8r]

I tried not to make it personal, more as a note of caution for others. Sorry if you took it that way.

Having said that, if you think you can slow a tandem with no rear passenger faster than a single, either your singles don't have very good brakes or you haven't done an emergency stop. Best of luck when you do.

[cdmc]

Actually, I agree with him that the Tandem should stop faster. In hard braking the majority of the weight shifts to the front tire. The problem with a traditional bike is you quickly reach the point where you are about to endo. A tandem with the longer wheelbase will resist endoeing much more and allow harder breaking.

[Fixed]

Bro.different strokes for different folks ,go off the beaten path.Cheers

[Rapid Tourist]

Dirt man, I think the Terraplanes are gorgeous. Go on and do your thing and don't mind the nay sayers. Keep on keepin' on.

I vote for nitto moustache bars.

[vaxn8r]

Actually, I agree with him that the Tandem should stop faster. In hard braking the majority of the weight shifts to the front tire. The problem with a traditional bike is you quickly reach the point where you are about to endo. A tandem with the longer wheelbase will resist endoeing much more and allow harder breaking.
That is an interesting viewpoint. I was thinking about that on my ride tonight. I do see your point but I'm not sure I'm buying it. If you've ever stopped a tandem (with no stoker) you realize quickly there is almost zero traction from the rear brake. So you have the contact point of the front tire doing virtually all the stopping for the bike. Now the tandem has a greater mass, at least double and up to triple the weight of a single. Real world experience is coloring my view on this issue but I can't quite see how stopping with essentially one front brake and tire, on a heavier bike, with heavier wheels and tires can come to a stop quicker than a single with two functional brakes. And of course this completely ignores the tossability and handling of a single in emergency maneuvers compared to the tandem.

Sorry about the hi-jack but I thought it an interesting comparison. Especially in light of the man who died here a few years ago, unable to slow his tandem down sufficiently to navigate a corner. Virtually everyone around here believes had he had his stoker on board he would have made the corner but, of course, we'll never know. People die on half-bikes too.

Again, not to impugn Ti-Designs bike handling skills. My comments were meant as a warning to others, less experienced, who might think what he did sounded cool. There are risks, especially when you use a bike or any equipment other than for how it was designed. Duh. :cool:

[jerk]

riding a tandem solo may or may not be dangerous. the jerk has no idea. nonetheless, the jerk thinks you and the jerk can all come to the conclusion that it is really weird.

jerk

[dirtdigger88]

it may be of some interest that pick up trucks tend to be funky in panic stops as well- and again there is little weight on the back wheels-

never rode a tandem so I cant say it the feeling is simular- but I do think they are a little odd- I dont like riding a motorcycle with someone else on- Im not thinking I would like a bike either

Jason

[Ti Designs]

Sorry about the hi-jack but...

Take this thread to Cuba!!! :cool: Vax, not to worry, I'm not taking any of this personally. Your points, while getting slightly off topic, are work discussion. And last I checked this was a discussion board, so...


If you've ever stopped a tandem (with no stoker) you realize quickly there is almost zero traction from the rear brake. So you have the contact point of the front tire doing virtually all the stopping for the bike. Now the tandem has a greater mass, at least double and up to triple the weight of a single. Real world experience is coloring my view on this issue but I can't quite see how stopping with essentially one front brake and tire, on a heavier bike, with heavier wheels and tires can come to a stop quicker than a single with two functional brakes.

Lets look at the limitations in stopping for a racing bike. Two words: short wheelbase. OK, maybe I better include high center of gravity along with short wheelbase (if the center of gravity were below the center of the wheel my argument would be invalid). Any braking force will shift weight forward, braking force on the front front wheel will at some point cause the bike to rotate around it's own wheel. Threshold braking can be defined as the point at which rotation about the front wheel happens, so we can call the normalized force on the rear wheel zero.

A tandem is limited mostly by braking power and the traction of the front wheel. As the normalized force on the front wheel increases dramaticly under hard braking, that never seems to be an issue. So how do we go about testing this? Easy, I'm working on a G-Tech handlebar mount, with that mounted on the bars I can get some real data. The smart money is still on the tandem, but brake testing is something I do a lot of, so...


The question of control of the tandem used as a single is a whole other issue. I ride my tandem that way almost as a joke. At one point I had a cardboard Lance (from the Trek sweepstakes) on the back - didn't help. I've tried the 6 foot tall Gumby on the back, but he had knee problems - I blame that one on the idiot who did the fitting. :rolleyes: I agree that if you ride a tandem solo just like it's a single, you're in for some trouble. If you keep in mind that you have a mile of wheelbase and no weight on the back wheel, you can get away with a LOT. Yeh, it skids out a lot. Once you learn to deal with that, it becomes amusing. The bike path around here is a sheet of ice in the winter, with frozen footprints just to make it hurt more if you crash. My single can slip out from under me faster than I can react. The tandem takes a while and gives me all kinds of time to react. It's not unlike walking a dog, I ride straight down the path, the rear wheel is off checking out stuff off to the side - it's all good.

[Serpico]

whats the word on the brooks? I currently ride an arione, looking to try a brooks swift.

is this you first brooks, which model? what saddle were you riding before?

[dirtdigger88]

Brooks

first try at one- I have the Swallow- it honestly matches up nearly exactly to a Flite saddle- I had an Arione on my Legend

I like the Brooks- I will say that if I didnt ride with my hips rolled forward like I do I dont know that the Swallow would be the right saddle- but it is hard to say- I have about 200 miles on my Brooks so far- the break in is not complete but the saddle is still very comfortable- I can see where people say that the Swallow "disappears" under you- It has been interesting to see the saddle begin to form to my rear- I am guessing a used Brooks saddle isnt very good unless you are getting it from your twin

Jason

[Frankwurst]

Go Dirt! I bought an Atlantis this year and heard the same stuff.What does it weigh? YaDa YaDa YaDa. Did a 500 mile one week ride with a weight freak friend who complained the whole way about being beat up and having a sore butt and wondered how I could arrive at the end of the day riding my heavy bike with a brooks saddle shower get back on it and go out for a couple of beers.If you have to explain chances are they still won't understand. :beer:

[ericspin]

Maybe there is something in the water. I just purchased an IF Planet X cross bike. Fairly heavy compared to my Concours CS but a blast to ride. I am riding 700x30 Michelin Cyclo Cross Jet tires. I showed up last weekend for my groups regular ride with the IF. The guys thought it was a joke. Similar to your ride, Dirt, I pulled probably 60% of the ride. I am intrigued by your idea of selling the Legend and ordering a Terraplane. Cannot wait to see some pictures. BTW, one of the great things about my new bike is that I have no computer on it. Interesting how I characterized most of my rides by average MPH or miles traveled. Pedal on.

[Tailwinds]

Thread drift...

Dirt, where did you purchase your Brooks? Wasn't it for some extraordinary amount of $$? I ride a Flite and might like to try the Brooks Swallow if I can find it for less than the 20% of the cost of a Kirk frame that we talked about.