Is Athena the Campy Force?

[FastforaSlowGuy]

I'm getting ready to build up an honest-to-goodness race bike, and I'm trying to nail down my gruppo. I had Force on my TT rig, which seemed great but didn't give me any experience with their brifters. I'm looking for a break from Shimano, and have a fascination (mostly emotional) with Campy. If I can't spring for Chorus (which I hear is great), is Athena a good setup? Nobody ever talks about it, and I never see it out there. Campy seems to think Chorus is equal to DA, so is Athena equal to Force/Ultegra?

I should say I have never ever ridden Campy, which I think is a great life tragedy.

Apologies in advance if this triggers yet another Campy v Shimano thread, that really wasn't the point of my question.

[pdmtong]

athena and centaur exist for the alloy lovers. you can get C11 for $1200-1300 ish. I have seen force as low as sub $900 so they arent in the exactly the same price ball park. not sure if campy make anythgin that inexpensive. I have both C11 and 2010 force....C11 much nicer hands down. worth the 50% delta from force.

[harryblack]

Athena is superb-- I think the reason you hear less about is because more Campy dudes spring for Chorus or above and some emotional hostility to 'Power Shift,' which became standard in 2011. People say oh well, then it's just like Shimano/SRAM which is half B.S. because the ergonomics are totally different.

Note: alloy levers are only Power Shift; older models were carbon wrap, now it's black, alloy or carbon wrap, all Power Shift.

Then you get some people crying about "Power Torque" cranks, which also became standard on Athena & Centaur in 2011. That's a bit more complicated; I've seen xxxxxxxxxxxx trying to sell overpriced NOS or used Ultra-Torque by calling "Power Torque" garbage, which is not at all the case-- you just need a longer bearing puller. Annoying but hardly an impossible obstacle.

Having ridden Ultegra/DA for 15+ years, I was semi-tempted by SRAM until riding it... Then I had zero interest.

I ** was ** skeptical about Athena but was blown away from the start; the whole "11 speed is hard to maintain" is xxxxx too unless maybe it was never set up correctly to begin with.

Depending on how quickly you need to put it together, a combo of closeout, ebay and UK can get you in at or below Force prices, probably with upgrades, if you want, like a carbon Chorus crank or the 2010/Chorus shifters etc.

p/s: I see Velo Mine has a 2012 + 2010 Athena package for $1075 all in, if that's within your budget and you want to 'Buy American.' (I try to when it's not unreasonable.)

[slowpoke]

Check your PM, sent ya a heads up. :cool:

[soulspinner]

I'm getting ready to build up an honest-to-goodness race bike, and I'm trying to nail down my gruppo. I had Force on my TT rig, which seemed great but didn't give me any experience with their brifters. I'm looking for a break from Shimano, and have a fascination (mostly emotional) with Campy. If I can't spring for Chorus (which I hear is great), is Athena a good setup? Nobody ever talks about it, and I never see it out there. Campy seems to think Chorus is equal to DA, so is Athena equal to Force/Ultegra?

I should say I have never ever ridden Campy, which I think is a great life tragedy.

Apologies in advance if this triggers yet another Campy v Shimano thread, that really wasn't the point of my question.


For what it worth Im in the same place. Great luck with Campy 8 and 10 for 35000 miles last decade or so. Gonna build a new bike in 2012 and price wise Shinybikes with the pound down to $1.56 puts Chorus in the sub 1100 range for the group shipped. Ive found Force in the high 800s with the bb30(stainless bb30 frame).

[AngryScientist]

Athena is superb-- I think the reason you hear less about is because more Campy dudes spring for Chorus or above and some emotional hostility to 'Power Shift,' which became standard in 2011. People say oh well, then it's just like Shimano/SRAM which is half B.S. because the ergonomics are totally different.

Note: alloy levers are only Power Shift; older models were carbon wrap, now it's black, alloy or carbon wrap, all Power Shift.

Then you get some people crying about "Power Torque" cranks, which also became standard on Athena & Centaur in 2011. That's a bit more complicated; I've seen knuckleheads trying to sell overpriced NOS or used Ultra-Torque by calling "Power Torque" garbage, which is not at all the case-- you just need a longer bearing puller. Annoying but hardly an impossible obstacle.



you obviously have some strong opinions. generally i agree with what you're saying, but having ridden pretty extensively on both systems, i can confidently say that ultra-torque is nicer for the shifters. the ability to dump multiple gears with one thumb throw is handy when you're riding hard or racing.

if i were in your shoes, i'd do the athena group, but upgrade to chorus shifters, it's worth the few extra bucks for that feature.

[oldpotatoe]

I'm getting ready to build up an honest-to-goodness race bike, and I'm trying to nail down my gruppo. I had Force on my TT rig, which seemed great but didn't give me any experience with their brifters. I'm looking for a break from Shimano, and have a fascination (mostly emotional) with Campy. If I can't spring for Chorus (which I hear is great), is Athena a good setup? Nobody ever talks about it, and I never see it out there. Campy seems to think Chorus is equal to DA, so is Athena equal to Force/Ultegra?

I should say I have never ever ridden Campy, which I think is a great life tragedy.

Apologies in advance if this triggers yet another Campy v Shimano thread, that really wasn't the point of my question.

Really hard to say one group is 'equal' to another in the group heirarchy.

Considering materials, I think Record is more akin to DA, Chorus is fancier than Ultegra tho. Athena is like Ultegra in a lot of ways, just 11s.

If you want a 'break' from shimano, Athena is a great group as is Centaur/Veloce, if you wish to stick to 10s.

All are more functional, more reliable, than anything sram, IMHO. I've seen to much warranty stuff from sram these last 2 years plus their FD/red cogset/chain/Gore cable stuff works poorly. IMHO and IME.

[jr59]

IMO;

record=.........none out there

Chorus=DA

Athena= Ulterga

and on down the line.

As far as DI2...I have no idea, nor do I want to know!

[Bob Loblaw]

You'll almost certainly be happier with Campy if you plan on riding the bike. Most of the people I know who like SRAM ride <3 hours a week.

Frome Velonews:

"Garmin-Cervélo riders will be shifting and braking on Japanese parts for the 2012 season instead of the SRAM they rode this season. Shimano, however, is not a new sponsor. Cervélo, the bike manufacturer, is purchasing Shimano groups for the team after repeated requests for Shimano from team members."

I'm getting ready to build up an honest-to-goodness race bike, and I'm trying to nail down my gruppo. I had Force on my TT rig, which seemed great but didn't give me any experience with their brifters. I'm looking for a break from Shimano, and have a fascination (mostly emotional) with Campy. If I can't spring for Chorus (which I hear is great), is Athena a good setup? Nobody ever talks about it, and I never see it out there. Campy seems to think Chorus is equal to DA, so is Athena equal to Force/Ultegra?

I should say I have never ever ridden Campy, which I think is a great life tragedy.

Apologies in advance if this triggers yet another Campy v Shimano thread, that really wasn't the point of my question.

[veloduffer]

I've used Athena 11S for the past two years - it works as well as my Record/Chorus and DuraAce/Ultegra equipped bikes. Weighs slightly more than Record/Chorus but not by much (my Large-sized 57cm Parlee weighs 15.1 lbs with pedals & Athena) and costs less.

[nahtnoj]

You are over thinking this.

Install whatever group you have on your training bike.

Install whatever group is compatible with the majority of the wheelsets you and your racing buddies currently own.

[dana_e]

I got a pair of 10 speed Veloce ergo shifters

the escape kind, or should I say power shift

I actually like them, and click down to a smaller gear one at a time.

I was surpriised I like the many shift down option too

it really did not matter, esacpe/powershift is cool with me

get the carbon crank it is worth it

[ultraman6970]

Somebody is selling an athena 11 group for 800 bucks.

[FastforaSlowGuy]

Thanks! I'm still a couple weeks away from pulling the trigger, I think.

Check your PM, sent ya a heads up. :cool:

[jr59]

Somebody is selling an athena 11 group for 800 bucks.


Velo mine has the athena group new for 900.

[alancw3]

IMO;

record=.........none out there

Chorus=DA

Athena= Ulterga

and on down the line.

As far as DI2...I have no idea, nor do I want to know!


i would have to disagree1

record=dura ace
chorus=ultegra
athena=105

hey this is just my opinion based on using both. both manufacturers offer great component. it all boils down to personal preference.

[aoe]

I don't think he's overthinking it...I think the short answer to your question is no, it's not the same as Force. An apples to apples comp between SRAM and Campy isn't feasible IMO.

From what I can gather from your OP I think you'd like Athena 11 with 2010 Ergos(which will give you ultrashift). I currently have bikes with SR11, Di2, R11, and C11 and my Athena 11 performs just as well imo and I think it's the best looking out of all of them bc I went with the all shiny. I've got an extra NIB alloy A11 UT crankset I'd sell cheap to get you started if you decide to go that route.

If you're LBS can't source it for you give Oldpotatoe a call or Ben/David at Velomine. Velomine is happy to mix/match groups....2010 ergos will be the hardest piece to find but I've seen em on ebay recently.

And if it is going to be an honest to goodness race bike that'll, hopefully not but chances are, see a crash that's another good reason to keep the cost low.

[fourflys]

Somebody is selling an athena 11 group for 800 bucks.


I think you mean the Chorus group from RadsMD... it's the group that he bought from me... functions perfectly, just has some road rash on the front shifter form an OTB experience...

so having ridden Campy 11sp for a year or so and now on the newest Rival, I really can't say I notice a difference in shifting performance... I really can't... I haven't been riding the Sram stuff long enough to talk about reliability however I did buy a Steelman that has the older, silver Rival/Force on it and it still shifts just fine... The Campy stuff was great, rode flawlessly... but my Sram stuff does too so far... to each their own I guess...

[Pete Serotta]

Yep stick with his recommendations. :banana: :banana: Pete


Really hard to say one group is 'equal' to another in the group heirarchy.

Considering materials, I think Record is more akin to DA, Chorus is fancier than Ultegra tho. Athena is like Ultegra in a lot of ways, just 11s.

If you want a 'break' from shimano, Athena is a great group as is Centaur/Veloce, if you wish to stick to 10s.

All are more functional, more reliable, than anything sram, IMHO. I've seen to much warranty stuff from sram these last 2 years plus their FD/red cogset/chain/Gore cable stuff works poorly. IMHO and IME.

[MadRocketSci]

you can't race the Athena alloy crankset...cuz it's too flexy!! :)

While the forged aluminium Athena crankarms are noticeably more flexible than most of the carbon, and just about all of the hollow aluminium options on the market, they’re also some of the narrowest - with external BB cups - on the market, as the Q-Factor measures just 145.5mm.

http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/components/groupset/road/product/review-campagnolo-athena-groupset-39503/

hard to believe there's still people out there saying this stuff....

[thinpin]

I have Athena alloy on 2 bikes. The original group has the carbon wrap shifters which behave the same as higher end shifters i.e. multiple shifting up and down. The newer models will only shift down the cassette one at a time. I really dislike this and find it annoying but am coming to live with it. I would agree with angryscientist to upgrade to chorus shifters or seek out the older model. I cannot tell you what "label" they have. All this ultra/power/ergo/Qs stuff is doing my head in.

[FastforaSlowGuy]

Very helpful thread. I'm leaning toward a Chorus/Athena blend if full Chorus is out of budget. My training bike is Shimano, but with old 9 speed DA, so any gruppo will require cassette changes etc for my wheels.

[nova]

I've been riding campy cx11 carbon, ie athena with cross rings since september and have nothing but praise. The shifting is crisp even if i go a couple days without lube, and it's durability has been even better. The brifters aren't even close to being in the same position (some spills, expected with a cross bike), but the bike still brakes and shifts.

if you have the option, and it's cheap i'd probably upgrade brifters and rear derailleur.

[Litespeed_Mike]

My $0.02 is the construction quality, fit and finish is unrivaled on Chorus/Record (much like Red/Force or whatever the fishing reel guys make).

The lesser groupsets incorporate manufacturing processes and materials that affect the quality, fit and finish (like stamped chainrings, more plastic bits, less unobtanium and adamantium alloys).

When purchasing anything Campagnolo, I always pay close attention to the model year, features and what forums like this of Ergo aficionados have to say.

Past my $0.02, I go used Chorus/Record before buying new Centaur for 10sp. bits. I'd consider Athena, but am wary of the shifters and cranks, and would recommend waiting for sales on Chorus/Record 11sp and deals on the forum. And I haven't turned it up to 11 yet [1], but the day will inevitably come.

[1] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbVKWCpNFhY

[FastforaSlowGuy]

This may sound silly, but has anyone had trouble adjusting to the thumb-actuated downshift lever on Campy? I've been riding Shimano-style brifters since the mid 90's, so I suspect there will be some retraining of my brain required. And my hands are not huge (I always wear a size M glove).

[fourflys]

This may sound silly, but has anyone had trouble adjusting to the thumb-actuated downshift lever on Campy? I've been riding Shimano-style brifters since the mid 90's, so I suspect there will be some retraining of my brain required. And my hands are not huge (I always wear a size M glove).


I went from Shimano to Chorus 11sp and had no issues with the thumb... btw- I have smaller hands and really liked the move to the Campy hoods as they felt a bit smaller to me... the SRAM hoods are much like the Campy in that regard... if I ride a Shimano bike now, the hoods just feel huge!

[wooly]

I say go Campy - and I've been running Shimano DA for the last two years. Before that I ran Campy for 10. Long story short, when building my last bike I converted to DA because I didn't want to shell out for Record or SR. Could've and should've gone with Chorus. Now I've got two sets of wheels with King hubs that either can't be converted (King classic hub) without using a conversion cassette or can be converted (R45) but would need to be sent back to the builder (Luxe) for a swap and redish. If doing all over again, I would've gone Campy from the beginning. Maybe another thread but any idea if King will allow a conversion to campy on the classic hub?

That being said, Shimano 7900 DA is really good. And the bit about not being rebuildable is not true (at least for the brifters). When I crashed a few weeks ago I thrashed my left shifter. My shop replaced a bunch of parts that were broken and it works good as new.

[oldpotatoe]

I say go Campy - and I've been running Shimano DA for the last two years. Before that I ran Campy for 10. Long story short, when building my last bike I converted to DA because I didn't want to shell out for Record or SR. Could've and should've gone with Chorus. Now I've got two sets of wheels with King hubs that either can't be converted (King classic hub) without using a conversion cassette or can be converted (R45) but would need to be sent back to the builder (Luxe) for a swap and redish. If doing all over again, I would've gone Campy from the beginning. Maybe another thread but any idea if King will allow a conversion to campy on the classic hub?

That being said, Shimano 7900 DA is really good. And the bit about not being rebuildable is not true (at least for the brifters). When I crashed a few weeks ago I thrashed my left shifter. My shop replaced a bunch of parts that were broken and it works good as new.


Anything inside the actual shift lever tho, shift guts? Or just new shift blade(which is available). What was the $?

[HJR]

Made the switch from shimano to campy about six years ago after about 8 years on Shimano as the Campy shifters fit my hands better, and I think it took me about 3-4 rides until it became second nature. Interestingly, I feel that the thumb shifter allows for less thought than shimano. You want a smaller in size ring use your thumb (left or right). You want bigger use your fingers. Very intuitive. Also really like the multiple gear dump ability.

This may sound silly, but has anyone had trouble adjusting to the thumb-actuated downshift lever on Campy? I've been riding Shimano-style brifters since the mid 90's, so I suspect there will be some retraining of my brain required. And my hands are not huge (I always wear a size M glove).

[fatallightning]

I have Ultra shift Athena 11 on 2 bikes. One alloy crank, one carbon crank. Love it, no complaints. I've done time on Record/SR bikes, and the shift feel is exactly the same. The brakes feel ever so slightly smoother on the pricier stuff because of the bearings, but power, with the same pads, the same. Both my cranks were UT with the nicer rings. I also have had bikes with ultrashift veloce 10, and then powershift veloce 10. The PS veloce shifted nice, and I made due with the single downshifts in the rear since it wasn't my race bike. The first US veloce group I had was early release with the light action, and never shifted right.

If you can't get US athena shifters, get chorus and athena everything else. Especially since you can get it in all black now if you want.

[Jeff N.]

Athena-11 is outstanding. I have the all alloy Athena-11 on my 'Nago Master Moltini and it works superbly. Jeff N.

[harryblack]

You know you can run 10 & 11 sp Campy with 9 speed Shimano cassettes, right?

I've not tried all combinations but here's what hipped me to the idea when I was switching gf's cross bike from Shimano mix to a mix of 2010/11 Veloce (with Shimano cantis for now)--

http://www.cxmagazine.com/shimano-campagnolo-ergopower-compatibility

BTW, I use both Powershift and Ultrashift, with no real preference, honestly. Multipe upshifts are VASTLY overrated though yeah, it's "neat" or whatever. I'm also certain I can attack on a hill, crest and upshift one click at a time as fast with Powershift as Ultra. (I never used "Escape" or the light click years of Ultra.)

GF has only used ridden Powershift (and Shimano) at length and loves it. It was the total ergonomic set-up, not 'dumpinh the cassette' that mattered.

Thumb shifting from the drops is... not 'tricky' but an adjustment and you might want to go with compact bars. I'm sure there are threads on best bars with Ergo levers etc on here somewhere.

Very helpful thread. I'm leaning toward a Chorus/Athena blend if full Chorus is out of budget. My training bike is Shimano, but with old 9 speed DA, so any gruppo will require cassette changes etc for my wheels.