OT Subaru WRX STI

[slowerthanyou]

Seeing a few threads pertaining to cars, experiences with, and opinions of, etc. So, here goes. Any experience, opinion, commentary, etc. with the Subaru WRX STI? What year is the best? Worst? Trouble spots, etc.

[verticaldoug]

At Jason's Westchester dirt ride from across the hall, there were 3 STI in the parking lot for 20 people. I have the original 2004. It is the lightest, least refined and potentially ugliest of the lot which makes it a good car.

If I recall, the 2005 fixed some of the short comings of the 2004. After that, they just get more refined and heavier every year.

The car is amazing on the dirt and quick. The downside is police like it too.

[TimmyB]

Awesome cars. I wish I had one. Avoid 2008. I'd be weary buying a used one unless it's from someone you know - even if it appears "stock," it may have been on the track. I know a number of guys that put a ****-ton of aftermarket stuff on their cars, do a couple seasons on the track, put the stock stuff back in and sell. Also, most have high mileage (nobody wants to sell theirs - for good reason!). So buy a new one. They have good resale value :beer: :beer:

[uno-speedo]

I've had three over the past nine years (two WRX's and an STI) and have only had to change the oil. Solid cars.

My STI with a WRX trunk. Tuned by my friend Bill from Crawford Performance.

http://farm1.staticflickr.com/192/467802894_9e248a0e6a_z.jpg?zz=1

[gemship]

I've had three over the past nine years (two WRX's and an STI) and have only had to change the oil. Solid cars.

My STI with a WRX trunk. Tuned by my friend Bill from Crawford Performance.

http://farm1.staticflickr.com/192/467802894_9e248a0e6a_z.jpg?zz=1


That's a lot of cars over a nine year period, I would say anything relatively new is reliable and solid in that time frame :rolleyes:

[verticaldoug]

That's a lot of cars over a nine year period, I would say anything relatively new is reliable and solid in that time frame :rolleyes:

Not my wife's BENZ.

[gemship]

Not my wife's BENZ.


women drivers :p

[witcombusa]

Seeing a few threads pertaining to cars, experiences with, and opinions of, etc. So, here goes. Any experience, opinion, commentary, etc. with the Subaru WRX STI? What year is the best? Worst? Trouble spots, etc.

Be sure you "want" what the STI offers over the WRX for the extra $8kish.
For daily driver street duty the WRX is more bang for the buck. The '09 to present are a notch up in performance over earlier years in stock trim.

What part of the country are you in? Are you looking for snow performance?

[slowerthanyou]

Northeast, so, yeah, being good in the snow is a draw to the Subaru.

[Louis]

My recent thoughts: I've decided that the gas mileage hit is really pretty high, so unless the plain-Jane Impreza has zero pep, that's probably going to be my choice. WRX would be nice (the STI is essentially a race car, so there's no way I need to go all the way up to that) but I've decided that I don't need to be a boy-racer.

[christian]

I spent a few years banging around in one for a living.

The pre-2008 cars with Mac strut rear suspension are better on real rough roads as they have more and more nearly 1:1 rear suspension travel.

Biggest difference in years is obviously the 2004-2007 cars were sedans and the 2008+ cars are hatches. -2007 has Mac struts rear whereas 2008+ has a trailing arm - double a-arm arrangement. Makes for more room in the trunk, and potentially better road handling, but worse rally handling.

2004s have 5*110 bolt circle wheels (interchangeable with WRX). Other years went to 5*114.3. Not sure if the WRX ever followed suit, but I don't think so. 2004s are arguably the quickest in stock form, but it's within tenths of seconds so I wouldn't sweat it.

With proper snow tires, they're pretty unbeatable in the slick.

If you get one, let me know, I'll send you a rally team windbreaker and a hat! :)

2004 (maybe 2005):
http://christianedstrom.com/images/pikespic.07.jpg

2008:
http://vtcar.com/contents/uploads/2009/02/pastrana_snodrift_action3.jpg

[verticaldoug]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvvIJ_ObRjU

Petter Solberg in 2003. Probably the pinnacle for World Rally.

The STI handles great in the snow. But you will also need to pay more for better tires.

Slowerthanyou, just listen to Christian. You can't beat a offer like that.

[LesMiner]

I own a 2006 WRX now with 90,000 miles. It is my daily driver and I commute 52 miles a day on a variety of highways. Never had a problem. Biggest expense was replacing the tires. Nothing like going down an entrance ramp accelerating to as fast 90 in 3rd to merge with fast moving freeway traffic. You need to go to another forum just on Subaru to get the best information just like you come here to get information on bikes like Serrota. North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club NASIOC (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/) is where you will find biggest collection of Subaru experts.

[Louis]

I spent a few years banging around in one for a living.

The video of the Mt Washington climb is pretty impressive. Have you ever driven that one?

[csm]

I had an 08. it was fun but for what it cost.... the finish just wasn't up to my Honda Element.
that said, with a proper set of snowtires it was essentially unstoppable in the snow.

[witcombusa]

My recent thoughts: I've decided that the gas mileage hit is really pretty high, so unless the plain-Jane Impreza has zero pep, that's probably going to be my choice. WRX would be nice (the STI is essentially a race car, so there's no way I need to go all the way up to that) but I've decided that I don't need to be a boy-racer.

I average 25mpg in back road and highway driving with my 2010 WRX. Now that can drop quickly if you spend some time in the boost zone but then the grin on your face is worth it. :)

[uno-speedo]

That's a lot of cars over a nine year period, I would say anything relatively new is reliable and solid in that time frame :rolleyes:

Valid point, but two road trips from TX to CA and back again do count towards reliability in my book, and none of the cars were new.

[Louis]

Now that can drop quickly if you spend some time in the boost zone but then the grin on your face is worth it. :)

Does all that HP & Torque make it more likely that you'll put yourself in situations where you might get a ticket? I'd hardly a leadfoot, but that is another issue I've wondered about.

[rphetteplace]

I spent a few years banging around in one for a living.

The pre-2008 cars with Mac strut rear suspension are better on real rough roads as they have more and more nearly 1:1 rear suspension travel.

Biggest difference in years is obviously the 2004-2007 cars were sedans and the 2008+ cars are hatches. -2007 has Mac struts rear whereas 2008+ has a trailing arm - double a-arm arrangement. Makes for more room in the trunk, and potentially better road handling, but worse rally handling.

2004s have 5*110 bolt circle wheels (interchangeable with WRX). Other years went to 5*114.3. Not sure if the WRX ever followed suit, but I don't think so. 2004s are arguably the quickest in stock form, but it's within tenths of seconds so I wouldn't sweat it.

With proper snow tires, they're pretty unbeatable in the slick.

If you get one, let me know, I'll send you a rally team windbreaker and a hat! :)

2004 (maybe 2005):
http://christianedstrom.com/images/pikespic.07.jpg

2008:
http://vtcar.com/contents/uploads/2009/02/pastrana_snodrift_action3.jpg

woah woah woah! You're Christrian Edstrom????? Super cool. Quasi celebrity here guys.

Were you Travis's co-driver up in Houghton ever? If so we've been up three times to watch the race, and was super bummed that they took it off the pro calender.

I had an 02 WRX and now an 08 STI. Love the cars. The engine did blow on my 08 with 11K miles on it. Everywhere you will read about ringland failures and blown pistons on the 08's. Subaru did replace the motor under warranty for me. Taking off the 18's and putting on 17's makes the car a ton more liveable on a daily basis.

[gemship]

Valid point, but two road trips from TX to CA and back again do count towards reliability in my book, and none of the cars were new.

That sounds good, I like the wrx and don't really want to argue the point and those are long trips but were these high mileage cars and well maintained? So what I'm really curious about is why you owned three cars in such a short time frame, did they get totaled, crashes, accidents?

My general feeling about cars is as investments and I am somewhat practical in that I would plan on owning it for at least 6 to 8 years maybe longer like 10 or 12 years. I guess that's what I read of the OP. If I ever get a car it would probably be one of these though, for now I'm all set with my truck.

[Louis]

Given what the car is, I don't think anyone buying a new Subaru WRX STI expects to get anywhere near 10 years out of it, unless they really aren't going to drive it. And if they aren't, why bother in the first place?

[christian]

The video of the Mt Washington climb is pretty impressive. Have you ever driven that one?No, the week they did that was the week that my daughter was born, so Travis brought in a co-driver from the UK for that event. I'm afraid I don't remember who it was.

[Louis]

the week that my daughter was born,

Even more stressful than risking you life at every turn!

[christian]

woah woah woah! You're Christrian Edstrom????? Super cool. Quasi celebrity here guys.

Were you Travis's co-driver up in Houghton ever? If so we've been up three times to watch the race, and was super bummed that they took it off the pro calender.Yeah, that's me. Travis and I did LSPR at least four times together. If I recall correctly, we won in '07 and '09, and took second in '06 (team orders), but I could be wrong on the years. In any case, I sat with him every race between 2004 and 2010, with the exception of one race at Pikes Peak, one race at Rim of the World, and the full 2008 season, where he sat with Derek Ringer. LSPR is actually my favorite event on the calendar, and Gratiot Lake is probably my favorite stage in North America. I've been arguing to get it back on the pro calendar, and wouldn't be surprised to see it back for 2013.

But enough about rallying. STI is an amazing street car. Performance that was unthinkable 20 years ago and a nice tractable car the rest of the time. But yes, the gas mileage is nothing to write home about.

[gemship]

Given what the car is, I don't think anyone buying a new Subaru WRX STI expects to get anywhere near 10 years out of it, unless they really aren't going to drive it. And if they aren't, why bother in the first place?


yeah but if it were "driven" like it was designed you would either be dead, or kill some one else with it or merely destroy it or lose your license :o

Just reread the OP, I guess reliability over a long time isn't important, I find it odd to own so many cars in such little time.... too many questions....ho,hum.

[Johnnyg]

Seeing a few threads pertaining to cars, experiences with, and opinions of, etc. So, here goes. Any experience, opinion, commentary, etc. with the Subaru WRX STI? What year is the best? Worst? Trouble spots, etc.
Like all rice burners it's a want to be European car. On a summer afternoon going north on rt 89 in Vermont, an WRX was no match for a real sports car, my Carrara 911 at 130mph.

[csm]

Like all rice burners it's a want to be European car. On a summer afternoon going north on rt 89 in Vermont, an WRX was no match for a real sports car, my Carrara 911 at 130mph.

I think you might be surprised with that.

[slowerthanyou]

A Carrera is an amazing car, but short two seats, isn't AWD, isn't quite as reliable, and is quite pricey (initial cost and maintenance).Like all rice burners it's a want to be European car. On a summer afternoon going north on rt 89 in Vermont, an WRX was no match for a real sports car, my Carrara 911 at 130mph.

[Johnnyg]

A Carrera is an amazing car, but short two seats, isn't AWD, isn't quite as reliable, and is quite pricey (initial cost and maintenance).
The Carrera 4 is AWD, had kind of back seats, and you are right, not as reliable but when it works it is sooo much fun.

[rphetteplace]

Like all rice burners it's a want to be European car. On a summer afternoon going north on rt 89 in Vermont, an WRX was no match for a real sports car, my Carrara 911 at 130mph.

Bring it to the track and I'll take your lunch money from you.

[rphetteplace]

Yeah, that's me. Travis and I did LSPR at least four times together. If I recall correctly, we won in '07 and '09, and took second in '06 (team orders), but I could be wrong on the years. In any case, I sat with him every race between 2004 and 2010, with the exception of one race at Pikes Peak, one race at Rim of the World, and the full 2008 season, where he sat with Derek Ringer. LSPR is actually my favorite event on the calendar, and Gratiot Lake is probably my favorite stage in North America. I've been arguing to get it back on the pro calendar, and wouldn't be surprised to see it back for 2013.

But enough about rallying. STI is an amazing street car. Performance that was unthinkable 20 years ago and a nice tractable car the rest of the time. But yes, the gas mileage is nothing to write home about.

The 1st year up there that Travis did it my fiancee' had her picture taken with Travis and our dogs (our kids). Shortly after one of the dogs passed away and I had a guy that knows a guy send the picture to Travis to be signed and a personal note put on. I had it framed and gave it to her for her b-day and she was elated.

[Johnnyg]

Bring it to the track and I'll take your lunch money from you.
Porsche didn't win the the European championship?

[rphetteplace]

Porsche didn't win the the European championship?

you and me

[Louis]

Porsche didn't win the the European championship?

Sounds to me like we need to find a track that accommodates both bikes and cars. That way we can "compare" our bikes and our cars at one convenient location.

[rphetteplace]

Blackhawkfarms raceway has bike races on it several times a year!

[witcombusa]

Does all that HP & Torque make it more likely that you'll put yourself in situations where you might get a ticket? I'd hardly a leadfoot, but that is another issue I've wondered about.

The torque is addictive...some restrant will be required if you wish to keep that license in your wallet.... :cool:

And mine is only slightly tweeked @ 250hp and 260ft/lbs at the wheels....

[christian]

This seems to have devolved into a bit of a pissing match, but if you want technical information or advice, I'm happy to answer via PM. In terms of "what it's like to live with one," there are others who are better able to answer that.

[witcombusa]

Christian.....all your rides were prepared by Vermont SportsCars for SubaruNA?

Did you like the hatch? Did they go back to the sedan again now for this season?

[christian]

Yes, when I raced for Subaru, all the cars I sat in where Vermont SportsCar prepped. Lance and team do a great job.

The hatches had their plusses and minuses; plus for a co-driver is that it's very easy to get at tires/oil/tools etc. back in the hatch for the inevitable wrenching it'll need on a road section when the drivers stuffs it somehow. In stock form, the rear suspension travel of the 2008+ cars wasn't as good as the older cars - the travel was shorter and you'd get more sideways deflection in the car as the suspension worked. The team re-engineered the rear suspension pretty heavily (longer trailing arm, new trailing arm mount on the chassis, custom tubular a-arms), got custom-built EXE-TC dampers, and re-jiggered the diff programming on the 2008+ cars we ran in 2009, and after that, they were pretty consistently 1+ second/mile faster than the 2006/7 cars.

At the end of the day, just like for a pro cyclist, the car is just a tool to get the job done. If you can win rallies in it, it's a good car. Full stop. I love cool bicycles and motorcycles, and do get stoked on things like Waldegård's 911R and vintage Hillman Imps. Rally cars, on the other hand, are all about what can get us to the end of the stage fastest. It's like - does it have a Recaro SPA ProRacer Hans seat and a Coralba C-Giant odometer? Ok, good enough for me. For a co-driver especially, it's just an office where you do the job. (*)

My expectation is that Diggins and Mirra will be driving the hatch again in 2012. All the development has been done on the hatch, so that's the easier path. But at the end of the day, it depends mostly on what the manufacturer wants to see out on the stages...

(*) I will admit, I never did get over the custom embroidered driving suits and sparkly custom airbrushed helmets, though. As someone who likes car racing, getting your own custom fitted Alpinestars suit with full sponsor logos and your name and national flag on the belt is pretty cool.

[tkbike]

Like all rice burners it's a want to be European car. On a summer afternoon going north on rt 89 in Vermont, an WRX was no match for a real sports car, my Carrara 911 at 130mph.

90K vs 40K for the AWD, I think I'll take the Subie, the 50K difference buys a whole lot of aftermarket performance!

[witcombusa]

Yes, when I raced for Subaru, all the cars I sat in where Vermont SportsCar prepped. Lance and team do a great job.

The hatches had their plusses and minuses; plus for a co-driver is that it's very easy to get at tires/oil/tools etc. back in the hatch for the inevitable wrenching it'll need on a road section when the drivers stuffs it somehow. In stock form, the rear suspension travel of the 2008+ cars wasn't as good as the older cars - the travel was shorter and you'd get more sideways deflection in the car as the suspension worked. The team re-engineered the rear suspension pretty heavily (longer trailing arm, new trailing arm mount on the chassis, custom tubular a-arms), got custom-built EXE-TC dampers, and re-jiggered the diff programming on the 2008+ cars we ran in 2009, and after that, they were pretty consistently 1+ second/mile faster than the 2006/7 cars.

At the end of the day, just like for a pro cyclist, the car is just a tool to get the job done. If you can win rallies in it, it's a good car. Full stop. I love cool bicycles and motorcycles, and do get stoked on things like Waldegård's 911R and vintage Hillman Imps. Rally cars, on the other hand, are all about what can get us to the end of the stage fastest. It's like - does it have a Recaro SPA ProRacer Hans seat and a Coralba C-Giant odometer? Ok, good enough for me. For a co-driver especially, it's just an office where you do the job. (*)

My expectation is that Diggins and Mirra will be driving the hatch again in 2012. All the development has been done on the hatch, so that's the easier path. But at the end of the day, it depends mostly on what the manufacturer wants to see out on the stages...

(*) I will admit, I never did get over the custom embroidered driving suits and sparkly custom airbrushed helmets, though. As someone who likes car racing, getting your own custom fitted Alpinestars suit with full sponsor logos and your name and national flag on the belt is pretty cool.


Thanks for all the info

I know that Subaru's road racing team went back to the STI sedan for this past season (2011)

[rphetteplace]

If anyone makes it LSPR every check out Suomy for breakfast. The pancakes rule the earth!

How does one get started as a co-driver? Never seen the job postings on monster :)

[Louis]

If anyone makes it LSPR every check out Suomy for breakfast. The pancakes rule the earth!

Looking at the past results, the Subies really dominate.

[wingnut]

With a racing pro in this thread, it's almost pointless for us "normal" drivers/owners to chime in! :)

I own one of the earlier models...an '02 WRX sedan which I've had all these years. Back when my job wasn't so demanding, I took it from San Jose to Lake Tahoe 10+ times per season to go snowboarding. It's a great car as a daily driver. After 120K miles, it's still going strong - no issues whatsoever. I was thinking of getting a BMW/Audi as my next car but when I consider how effortless my Subaru ownership experience has been, I am tempted to pick up another Subaru. That is, however, whenever this car fails me. I look at cars not as an investment but as a cost center - they depreciate and incur regular expenses for maintenance, so I try not to switch cars too often.

I don't have any experience with the STi and never considered it because of its fuel efficiency (or lack of) as well as the 6 speed transmission (I prefer the WRX's 5spd for my commutes). I do like the way the new STi wagons/hatches look though! I'm sure you know of the forums already but if not, swing on by NASIOC (or i-club.com if you're a bay area guy) for more information!

[Peter B]

Looks like a nimble little grocery getter...


vid 1 (http://youtu.be/rs-jAImScms)


vid 2 (http://youtu.be/Nrt6rDAtKDk)

[Louis]

This is the one Christian could not do because he had more important things happening:

Mt Washington Hill Climb (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BZh-7hkNe4)

[wingnut]

This is the one Christian could not do because he had more important things happening:

Mt Washington Hill Climb (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BZh-7hkNe4)

That's just insane!

[rice rocket]

I don't own one, but I hang out with all the Subaru nuts.

First thing, for all specs on any Subaru, www.cars101.com is the most comprehensive site.

2005 added the larger wheel hubs and bearings, with a new bolt pattern for better wheel selection. It also added an improved DCCD with yaw sensors to better control the center diff, a helical front diff, and .5" wider rear wheels.

2006 added a steering angle sensor (and a new look), but is mechanically similar to the 2005.

It's not redesigned until 2008 as a hatchback, and you get the new drive thing with selectable engine maps or whatever. Mechanically, I don't think its evolved that much since 2005.

[verticaldoug]

Like all rice burners it's a want to be European car. On a summer afternoon going north on rt 89 in Vermont, an WRX was no match for a real sports car, my Carrara 911 at 130mph.

Aren't you suppose to be on the Cervelo forum?

[slowerthanyou]

The Carrera 4 is AWD, had kind of back seats, and you are right, not as reliable but when it works it is sooo much fun.
Agreed. The Carrera 4S is a dream car, but, reality dictates the need for practicality (IE four doors, affordable maintenance etc.). The performance numbers of the STI, along with (relatively) good MPG, reliability, lousy weather capability, and utility, make it attractive, on a day to day basis. The STI just looks like a whole lot of fun, with out breaking the bank.

[mtb_frk]

I have 150k on my 04 wrx and still going strong. Next car I get will be another one whenever this one dies.

[skijoring]

I average 25mpg in back road and highway driving with my 2010 WRX. Now that can drop quickly if you spend some time in the boost zone but then the grin on your face is worth it. :)

Does your WRX have Brifters or DT levers? :)

[jasond]

I traded a 09 WRX premium for a VW JSW TDI back in March and wouldn't go back to the WRX. After being away from Audi/VW for a little under two years I'm really not sure why I strayed. WRX's are very cheaply made.

If you can get around some of these issues then you should be fine: road noise, chipped paint, dings, flat sounding stereo, moldings that fall off, and plastic interiors. I'm sure I could think of more however I am in a rush.

Of course I got annoyed with the above but the mpg put it over the edge. Which is why I bought a TDI, 40+mpg.

I have a buddy that loves his WRX and actually just traded his 09 for an 11 so he could get the wider body. They are very slick looking cars and extremely powerful for the money but I use to refer to my WRX as a 25k engine with a 3k exterior/interior.

The one of the good things the WRX had going for it was AWD. I put snows on the WRX and could go anywhere I wanted within reason. I could mash the gas at a green light in a snow storm and be fine. The car felt like it was on rails in the snow. I'll just put the snows on the JSW and know I can't plow through snow banks any longer, oh well.

Oh yeah this is what happens when someone hits you broadside at 5mph. The bumper molding fell completely off and I found it laying on the ground on the passenger side of the car.

http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/4999/unledfks.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/690/unledfks.png/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

[witcombusa]

Does your WRX have Brifters or DT levers? :)

One of the things that I like best about the WRX is it's lack of refinement. It feels like a mechanical beast, not a silky platfom. The GTI I looked at as my other option was just too polished for my taste.

So, yeah, this is a DT shifted car :p

[zap]

WRX = Cervelo

Just get the best in class............VW GTI.

[pjm]

Just get the best in class............VW GTI.
Golf R.........coming soon to a dealer near you!

[witcombusa]

WRX = Cervelo

Just get the best in class............VW GTI.



GTI is down 65hp over the WRX and 105hp over the STI

Front wheel drive vs. all-wheel drive

Basically a completely different class

[witcombusa]

Golf R.........coming soon to a dealer near you!

I've owned two GTI's, one for 10 years one for 12.

There won't be a 3rd one. VW does not stand behind the product (and it needs it!)

[slowerthanyou]

VW's reliabilty is an issue, IME. Had a Jetta, seemed to have a myriad of problems, mostly electrical, and, curiously, right after the warranty expired. Dealer's customer service was horrid.

[LesMiner]

I don't own one, but I hang out with all the Subaru nuts.

First thing, for all specs on any Subaru, www.cars101.com is the most comprehensive site.

2005 added the larger wheel hubs and bearings, with a new bolt pattern for better wheel selection. It also added an improved DCCD with yaw sensors to better control the center diff, a helical front diff, and .5" wider rear wheels.

2006 added a steering angle sensor (and a new look), but is mechanically similar to the 2005.

It's not redesigned until 2008 as a hatchback, and you get the new drive thing with selectable engine maps or whatever. Mechanically, I don't think its evolved that much since 2005.

In 2006 the 2.0 engine was replaced with the 2.5 one. Better low end torque and the turbo kicks in at a lower RPM. Also drive by wire, electronic accelerator pedal.

[witcombusa]

In your mirror

[Ken Robb]

One of the things that I like best about the WRX is it's lack of refinement. It feels like a mechanical beast, not a silky platfom. The GTI I looked at as my other option was just too polished for my taste.

So, yeah, this is a DT shifted car :p
You would REALLY love a 1923 Model T Ford. No silkiness there! :)

[SteveFrench]

Enough of this non-sense.

Here's a real car
http://www.supercars.net/gallery/186162/2363/915977.jpg











Just kidding. I would trade my girlfriend for an STI.

[r_mutt]

Porsche Carrera 4S vs WRX STI? Why even compare? They are worlds apart. One is a luxury sports car the other is a rally car base made to a price. Btw- why bother with 4wd on the Porsche? Seems like 4WD takes the "character" and essence out of what a 911 is supposed to be.

As for the GTI - FWD? How many F1 races or World Sports Car titles have FWD cars won? fun car, but FWD is for economy cars! :P. I had a 16V Scirocco back in the day- Fun car to drive, but not a true sports car. At least the STI can boast some real race heritage.

my WRX has 120 K and is going strong. Boxer motors (Porsche 911's, BMW motorbikes, Ferrari 512, Subaru, VW Beetle, have a history of bulletproof running, no?

[rice rocket]

In 2006 the 2.0 engine was replaced with the 2.5 one. Better low end torque and the turbo kicks in at a lower RPM. Also drive by wire, electronic accelerator pedal.

I thought this was an STI thread.

The WRX has no intelligent differentials. No yaw sensors, no clutchpacks, zip. Just ole crappy viscous couplings.

[rugbysecondrow]

Sounds to me like we need to find a track that accommodates both bikes and cars. That way we can "compare" our bikes and our cars at one convenient location.

Sounds like we need a tape measure, one that has cm and mm on it, just for accuracy sake. :)

[witcombusa]

I thought this was an STI thread.

The WRX has no intelligent differentials. No yaw sensors, no clutchpacks, zip. Just ole crappy viscous couplings.


here ya go....

[zap]

The STI is an econo box with a warmed over motor-nothing to get excited about.

The original M3 is a cool car. Neighbor put a BMW V10 in a highly modified series 1 M3. Damn thing looks so cool and the sound...............

[benb]

For all the people bashing these cars.. you have to give the owners credit, unlike the German cars the Subaru owners actually appear to be real car enthusiasts.

I have never been able to get over how many Subaru cars I saw at the SCCA events I participated in a few years ago, and how often they dominated the results.

Owners of more expensive cars were pretty much not present. The WRXes and STIs may not be effective ways to try and tell the world you're wealthy but they sure appear to be a ton of fun and are owned by people who know what sports cars are supposed to be used for.

[Louis]

The WRXes and STIs may not be effective ways to try and tell the world you're wealthy but they sure appear to be a ton of fun and are owned by people who know what sports cars are supposed to be used for.

BINGO !!!

[Ken Robb]

For all the people bashing these cars.. you have to give the owners credit, unlike the German cars the Subaru owners actually appear to be real car enthusiasts.

r.

I think there are plenty of owners of German cars who are driving enthusiasts which, to me, is the core what being a "car enthusiast" is all about.
BMWCCA has 74,000+ members and an extensive program of driving schools, car control clinics, teen street survival training, autocross competitions, and club racing. They also have lots of car shows, tours, and tech sessions.

PCA has many "high performance driving events", time trials, and auto crosses as well as the other events similar to BMWCCA.

POC has many track day events but I'm not familiar with their oeverall program.

I think your perception of German car owners may be skewed because the cars also appeal to non-car enthusiasts. I'll bet that some of the guys you watch racing left their BMWs and Porsches at home while they towed their race trailer to the track with a pickup. :beer:

[FlashUNC]

I test drove a couple WRX's when I was car shopping a couple years back. Ended up in the GTI for two reasons:

1) WRX was ridiculously fun to drive, but the repairs for AWD spooked me a bit. Plus, living in the South, I could live without AWD.

2) The interior. Just felt unbelieveably cheap in the Subaru.

[witcombusa]

I test drove a couple WRX's when I was car shopping a couple years back. Ended up in the GTI for two reasons:

1) WRX was ridiculously fun to drive, but the repairs for AWD spooked me a bit. Plus, living in the South, I could live without AWD.

2) The interior. Just felt unbelieveably cheap in the Subaru.

Yep....and I could care less about the interior. I rip out the rear seat and fill the beast with bikes and skis and kayak (yes whitewater kayak INSIDE).

I'm paying FOR the powertrain and drivetrain. And that works for me.....

[rphetteplace]

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=97288&page=2&pp=15

Me in my STI.

Alternatively it spends almost every day with the rear seats down hauling 2 golden retrievers in the back end.

[rice rocket]

Owners of more expensive cars were pretty much not present. The WRXes and STIs may not be effective ways to try and tell the world you're wealthy but they sure appear to be a ton of fun and are owned by people who know what sports cars are supposed to be used for.

Let's not get hasty here...sports car? :p

[pjm]

Just for the record, the Golf R I mentioned earlier is AWD. It is still down a little in HP compared to the Subarus,(figured I'd save the Subaru guys from telling me that) but then again it doesn't feel like a plastic lined tin can, either. The R designation is to VW what the M is to BMW.

Oh, and all this WRX/STI talk and no mention of the Mitsubishi EVO?

[rice rocket]

The EVO really is the best *****box that goes fast. Totally bulletproof all around, reliable at 500+ hp levels on a stock block.

Don't try that with your Subaru... ;)

That said, I choose to hang out w/ the Subaru folks because I like the people, which sometimes can't be said of the EVO owners. :D :fight:

The Golf R is an interesting idea, but I'll never voluntarily own a Volkswagen product ever again.

[spacemen3]

I LOVE my old Evo VIII. It's not an easy car to live with as a daily driver: it looks obnoxious, it sucks gas, it is totally unrefined, and it forces my female passengers to wear sport-bras. Basically, it makes every other car feel like a Trek. ;)

[witcombusa]

Just for the record, the Golf R I mentioned earlier is AWD. It is still down a little in HP compared to the Subarus,(figured I'd save the Subaru guys from telling me that) but then again it doesn't feel like a plastic lined tin can, either. The R designation is to VW what the M is to BMW.

Oh, and all this WRX/STI talk and no mention of the Mitsubishi EVO?

Down a "little"......if you think 100hp is a little then yeah. (65 for the WRX)
I found the newer GTI's very appliance like. Gimme an A2 2.0 liter 4 valve with the 4 headlight grill....that is what a GTI should be. Along the same line I'll take the Mini Cooper S over the GTI.(In fact I did)

Again, I like the feel of the REX. It's my snow storm chasing ski car!

[jasond]

Down a "little"......if you think 100hp is a little then yeah. (65 for the WRX)

Actually, the Golf R is right at 256hp however the STi will still take the Golf R all day.

If you are planning on running snows on an STi just remember you have to buy 18's as the car comes equipped with a a big brake kit. Not that this is a big deal for some but I personally prefer to run smaller and thinner snows.

[mister]

Down a "little"......if you think 100hp is a little then yeah. (65 for the WRX)
I found the newer GTI's very appliance like. Gimme an A2 2.0 liter 4 valve with the 4 headlight grill....that is what a GTI should be. Along the same line I'll take the Mini Cooper S over the GTI.(In fact I did)

Again, I like the feel of the REX. It's my snow storm chasing ski car!

you mean the 2.0 16 valve? the DOHC motor.

i think the golf R is a little lighter than the sti too isn't it?
i'd consider getting a golfR but the motor is a 4 cylinder and already running at 17psi to get 265hp or 256hp, whatever it is...doesn't seem like theres much room for more there. also the article i read said something about the stability control being undefeatable completely, once it starts to exciting then the stability control kicks in and brings it all back inline...wth.
most new cars probably have the same problem though...


my brother has one of the r32's with the vr6...thing handles awesome and the brakes work well enough to make you feel a little weird in your stomach. seriously. he has a curvy road going out to his land...100mph the whole time, not hauling ass in the straights and not slowing down for the curves. then he tells me as we're approaching the turn to his (dirt) road to tell him when i think he needs to get on the brakes. i told him...like 2 seconds early at 100mph. there was a sign that was actually his braking point. it was not far back. something like 80-90 feet. pretty fun.
the car has different tires and wheels on it, that's it.
anyway, seems the vw's are more about handling well and braking well than brute acceleration. unless of course you start adding modifications...

[witcombusa]

Actually, the Golf R is right at 256hp however the STi will still take the Golf R all day.

If you are planning on running snows on an STi just remember you have to buy 18's as the car comes equipped with a a big brake kit. Not that this is a big deal for some but I personally prefer to run smaller and thinner snows.

One of the many reasons I got the WRX. I run steel 16" wheels w/195/60's.

[witcombusa]

you mean the 2.0 16 valve? the DOHC motor.

i think the golf R is a little lighter than the sti too isn't it?
i'd consider getting a golfR but the motor is a 4 cylinder and already running at 17psi to get 265hp or 256hp, whatever it is...doesn't seem like theres much room for more there. also the article i read said something about the stability control being undefeatable completely, once it starts to exciting then the stability control kicks in and brings it all back inline...wth.
most new cars probably have the same problem though...


my brother has one of the r32's with the vr6...thing handles awesome and the brakes work well enough to make you feel a little weird in your stomach. seriously. he has a curvy road going out to his land...100mph the whole time, not hauling ass in the straights and not slowing down for the curves. then he tells me as we're approaching the turn to his (dirt) road to tell him when i think he needs to get on the brakes. i told him...like 2 seconds early at 100mph. there was a sign that was actually his braking point. it was not far back. something like 80-90 feet. pretty fun.
the car has different tires and wheels on it, that's it.
anyway, seems the vw's are more about handling well and braking well than brute acceleration. unless of course you start adding modifications...


I had a VR6 GTI for 12 years. I threw a ton of aftermarket parts at it. Coilovers, sway bars, bushings, upgraded pads w/SS lines, chassis braces, etc. Then a drive a bone stock Mini Cooper S....game over. It was already better stock but with just an upgraded rear bar it was unreal. No more VW's for me.

[rice rocket]

If you are planning on running snows on an STi just remember you have to buy 18's as the car comes equipped with a a big brake kit. Not that this is a big deal for some but I personally prefer to run smaller and thinner snows.

17's for the STI.

15's for the WRX.

[witcombusa]

17's for the STI.

15's for the WRX.


I believe that stopped being true in '08

Add one inch for the current generation platform

[christian]

I believe that stopped being true in '08

Add one inch for the current generation platform
You can fit the 2006+ WRX four pots to the STI if you want to use smaller rims. That's what some of the privateer rally guys do in order to fit the 15" rally rims. Big spenders use AP brake kits, of course.

[rphetteplace]

I've got 17 snows on my STI right now. I run 17's on the track also because I'm cheap.

[rice rocket]

I believe that stopped being true in '08

Add one inch for the current generation platform

Ah good point! :beer:

Although define "current", I just saw a friend pick up a 2012. It sure is pretty/ugly. Much needed return to the more aggressive look after the last gen.

[rice rocket]

I've got 17 snows on my STI right now. I run 17's on the track also because I'm cheap.

Sensible. ;)

18's are heavier and twice the price. Unless you run the "ringer" 285/30/18 tire for shorter gearing, there are plenty of 17s in larger rolling diameter.

[witcombusa]

Ah good point! :beer:

Although define "current", I just saw a friend pick up a 2012. It sure is pretty/ugly. Much needed return to the more aggressive look after the last gen.

I find the wide body style way too much boy racer for my taste, kinda like the wing now back on the STI sedan.

[mister]

I had a VR6 GTI for 12 years. I threw a ton of aftermarket parts at it. Coilovers, sway bars, bushings, upgraded pads w/SS lines, chassis braces, etc. Then a drive a bone stock Mini Cooper S....game over. It was already better stock but with just an upgraded rear bar it was unreal. No more VW's for me.

i don't doubt it. the vr6 is too heavy and most of the vw guys with coilovers have their cars way too low. that said i figure you know what an r32 is, it's a little different than just a vr6 gti...

also i don't know that i like the mk3 4 and 5 vws that much. the r32 is pretty ok and i figure the golfR will be alright.
i drive mkI and mkII's...something about the little bity cars that is so fun...

[Ti Designs]

Sounds to me like we need to find a track that accommodates both bikes and cars. That way we can "compare" our bikes and our cars at one convenient location.

I'll start the list of excuses now...

[slowerthanyou]

OK, so from what I've gathered here, the STI is OK, but not a be all end all. So, different direction, what would be similar to one? AWD, similar power, ability to put bikes on the roof, similar reliabilty, price etc. Suggestions? BMW 3-series xi?

[witcombusa]

OK, so from what I've gathered here, the STI is OK, but not a be all end all. So, different direction, what would be similar to one? AWD, similar power, ability to put bikes on the roof, similar reliabilty, price etc. Suggestions? BMW 3-series xi?

Not the Bimmer, not an Audi, etc.

For the money you can't compete. WRX will do almost as well if purely a road car, for 8k less.

[Louis]

OK, so from what I've gathered here, the STI is OK, but not a be all end all.

No vehicle out there is perfect, and all have some compromises or issues, even the Veyron.

[gemship]

No vehicle out there is perfect, and all have some compromises or issues, even the Veyron.


The Veyron would never work for me even if it were given as a gift. It costs two and half million and only gets seven mpg in the city and fifteen mpg on the highway. That kind of mileage is despicable and cost prohibitive for me. I'd be better off selling it for the highest bid, hopefully getting at least two million for it and being moderately wealthy/set for life :hello:

[slowerthanyou]

That is true. BMW, I'd say pass. Same with Audi. The thought of either car, outside of their warranty, is a bit scary.Not the Bimmer, not an Audi, etc.

For the money you can't compete. WRX will do almost as well if purely a road car, for 8k less.

[Ti Designs]

OK, so from what I've gathered here, the STI is OK, but not a be all end all. So, different direction, what would be similar to one? AWD, similar power, ability to put bikes on the roof, similar reliabilty, price etc. Suggestions? BMW 3-series xi?

You're looking for custom in an off the rack world, you're just never going to find it. Custom means just that - custom. You start out with the platform that's close and you make it fit your needs. I have a little Honda race car that started it's life as a stock CRX Si. At first it was springs, shocks, a real set of sway bars and wheels & tires. Then the motor needed more. Then the motor needed more in the lower ranges. Then the tires I picked sucked, so different wheels and tires. Then I got bumped up in class, so the motor and brakes needed a lot more. Then I had to figure out how to carry two tandems on the roof - not while racing. Roll cage, roof reinforcements with exterior bolts to hold the custom roof rack, bigger brakes and a turbo kit. Then the ignition system wasn't up to the task, so the MSD unit went in. Then I needed more control over caster/camber so the shock towers got changed. Somewhere along the line just about everything in the car got redesigned, if you ignore the fact that it's a Honda with half metric fixtures and half SAE, it's pretty much just what I want. It's a custom!

[corsaspeciale]

I have had a 2006 Saab 92x Aero since new aka Saabaru. It is Subaru wrx wagon dressed up as Saab. And living in Michigan i find the cars awd the best i have had on our winter roads. It is a stock car that this spring is going to get some mods. This is another one that has had only lof's done to it since new and one of the most reliable cars out there. There are not many out there but if you want something a little different it is a good way to go.

[david]

i had a early sti and grew tired of it.
amazing engine and brakes. great suspension.
but i thought the steering was overwhelmed by the power.
it could be a real handful.
i might have been happier in the regular wrx.

truth is, i've grown to appreciate street vehicles with less power than you'll find in a lot of cars today. i'd rather have an "underpowered" car that you have to push than an overpowered car that has to be contained.

always liked my ktm single cyclinder supermoto more for the street than my ducati 996. track is a different story.

currently driving a 2010 gti and it's the most fun to drive car i've had in a number of years. plenty of power. really great steering feel. no problems so far.

[rice rocket]

The steering issue you mention is actually torque steer because the front wheels are driven as well.

I agree with you, having to forcefully unwind the steering wheel on corner exit was a big turnoff for me whenever I'm driving my friends' Subarus. That said, I've been driving RWD cars since I let my Subaru go, and I'm the type of person that lets go of the steering wheel to countersteer, because cars should naturally countersteer IMHO. ;)

[Ti Designs]

With a racing pro in this thread, it's almost pointless for us "normal" drivers/owners to chime in!


Stop being normal...

[Louis]

Stop being normal...

Yeah, really. Even run-of-the-mill regular idiot drivers are entitled to opinions.

[Ken Robb]

[QUOTE. That said, I've been driving RWD cars since I let my Subaru go, and I'm the type of person that lets go of the steering wheel to countersteer, r IMHO. ;)[/QUOTE]
You are the type of person I call a passenger. :)

[binxnyrwarrsoul]

Isn't there a bushing kit to remedy the steering issues?i had a early sti and grew tired of it.
amazing engine and brakes. great suspension.
but i thought the steering was overwhelmed by the power.
it could be a real handful.
i might have been happier in the regular wrx.

truth is, i've grown to appreciate street vehicles with less power than you'll find in a lot of cars today. i'd rather have an "underpowered" car that you have to push than an overpowered car that has to be contained.

always liked my ktm single cyclinder supermoto more for the street than my ducati 996. track is a different story.

currently driving a 2010 gti and it's the most fun to drive car i've had in a number of years. plenty of power. really great steering feel. no problems so far.

[Ti Designs]

Yeah, really. Even run-of-the-mill regular idiot drivers are entitled to opinions.

Or they can learn how to drive...