Front Brake Cable right or Left Lever Discussion

[UKBROOKLYN]

Well I am super impressed at how active and knowledgeable the Serotta forum is..And I have been getting a helpful and great response to the questions I ask here,,.. So here goes for another one.
I am from the UK and we always build our bikes with the front brake being actuated by the right hand lever. Same as on motorcycles.
I always thought it made sense that the strongest hand be used to do the biggest part of the braking. And curmudgeonly opined that Napoleon probably switched it the same day that he decided everyone in Europe should drive on the right, that longitude should start in Paris and only half the amount of soap was necessary.

Discuss !!

[AngryScientist]

i do the big bulk of my shifting with my right hand.

i grab my bottles and drink water with my right hand.

i eat food on the bike with my right hand.

i take pictures with my right hand.

...

i want my front brake available to me while my right hand may be occupied by any of the above.

[thinpin]

i do the big bulk of my shifting with my right hand.

i grab my bottles and drink water with my right hand.

i eat food on the bike with my right hand.

i take pictures with my right hand.

...

i want my front brake available to me while my right hand may be occupied by any of the above.
If you need that amount of brakeing power while your right hand is otherwise occupied you might be in trouble.
Its just convention, why I can't remember but I did hear it somewhere once. I've used both ways over the years - it makes no difference from a functional point of view. Campag front brakes seem to be "shaped" to recieve the cable from the left but marginally so.

[AngryScientist]

If you need that amount of brakeing power while your right hand is otherwise occupied you might be in trouble.


i agree, but in general, if i want to feather the brakes while i'm having a sip of water, i prefer to be able to work the front brake.

it really is just a preference thing though, you'll get used to either way.

[jonnyBgood]

You hear a lot of people say that "motocross" guys that ride bikes like the front brake on the right so it is a easier transition from moto to bike...

but with that said I have been riding motocross for 20 years and raced downhill for 7 years and never had an issue of mixing the two up. I use my front brake a lot riding off-road and never have had an issue with not having enough power in my left hand.

I think it's just personal preference.

[christian]

I have yet to need to de-clutch my bicycle, so I'm ok with the front brake on the left. I have run it both ways and have never had a moment of cognitive dissonance. I have probably 45,000 miles on a bike and 160,000+ on a motorcycle.

[UKBROOKLYN]

I always have to think about it when I ride someone else's bike.. I keep mine front right from old habit. And I am sure it is true that one gets used to it in time. I just wondered where the switch came in, is there some special reason that the UK riders are front righty and everyone else is front back.

[oldpotatoe]

Well I am super impressed at how active and knowledgeable the Serotta forum is..And I have been getting a helpful and great response to the questions I ask here,,.. So here goes for another one.
I am from the UK and we always build our bikes with the front brake being actuated by the right hand lever. Same as on motorcycles.
I always thought it made sense that the strongest hand be used to do the biggest part of the braking. And curmudgeonly opined that Napoleon probably switched it the same day that he decided everyone in Europe should drive on the right, that longitude should start in Paris and only half the amount of soap was necessary.

Discuss !!

Historical background is right on front cuz.....

Shifted rear der DT shifter and brake at same time

Picked up mussette bag with right hand and braked same time

Meanwhile left hand on rear brake so to not launch ones self over handlebars whilst doing the above..


I drink, scratch, shift, flip the bird, etc with me right hand so want my left hand on rear brake, not front.

[dsb]

I dunno... I've tried it both ways and prefer the front brake on the right lever... Yes, I have lots of motorcycle experience, but I don't know if that's the reason...

I don't know about the UK thing... I live in Georgia...

[Bob Loblaw]

Both ways work. This is a little like a discussion of chocolate versus vanilla.

I will take chocolate and left hand front brake.

BL

[Chance]

My understanding is that US is not based on racing as mentioned above but rather traffic flow being on opposite sides of road which requires the bike rider to use opposite arm/hand to signal for turns and stops. In the US it was customary to signal intention to turn in either direction or to stop with the left hand (before we stopped signaling entirely ), and at that time it was thought that if you could only brake with one wheel it was safer to use the rear which was normal on older bikes with a single rear brake. Hence the rear brake is on the right hand in US.

Can’t recall source of this information but my recollection is that it also stated that it is required to be that way when a new bike leaves the shop. It’s a standard to keep riders from getting confused and locking up the front accidentally.

[oldpotatoe]

My understanding is that US is not based on racing as mentioned above but rather traffic flow being on opposite sides of road which requires the bike rider to use opposite arm/hand to signal for turns and stops. In the US it was customary to signal intention to turn in either direction or to stop with the left hand (before we stopped signaling entirely ), and at that time it was thought that if you could only brake with one wheel it was safer to use the rear which was normal on older bikes with a single rear brake. Hence the rear brake is on the right hand in US.

Can’t recall source of this information but my recollection is that it also stated that it is required to be that way when a new bike leaves the shop. It’s a standard to keep riders from getting confused and locking up the front accidentally.

Well the default is right for the rear but there is no requirement to have it be that way on a new bike.

[thinpin]

My understanding is that US is not based on racing as mentioned above but rather traffic flow being on opposite sides of road which requires the bike rider to use opposite arm/hand to signal for turns and stops. In the US it was customary to signal intention to turn in either direction or to stop with the left hand (before we stopped signaling entirely ), and at that time it was thought that if you could only brake with one wheel it was safer to use the rear which was normal on older bikes with a single rear brake. Hence the rear brake is on the right hand in US.

Can’t recall source of this information but my recollection is that it also stated that it is required to be that way when a new bike leaves the shop. It’s a standard to keep riders from getting confused and locking up the front accidentally.
Yes that was why I heard it had occurred. All L drive countries seem to have adopted R front brake.

[UKBROOKLYN]

So if it was to do with traffic and signaling.. it would make sense to have front right (Now that most bikes have both front and rear brakes..) Thereby allowing the left hand signaling and the best brake use at the same time.
But then it would follow that in the UK the reverse would be the case.. Which it is not.. so I am back to the beginning... it's not a discussion of ice cream flavors.. there is a custom here and I am trying to understand where it comes from..

[DfCas]

It depends on your cyclocross dismount side, which is always the rear brake. For road or mtb I can't see that it matters.

[Tim Porter]

I've been following Peter's (oldpotato) rationale for almost 40 years: front brake on the right. Feathering the rear brake to slow down a bit while shifting a DT shifter was what my cycling mentor used as the rationale when I made the switch in 1972. . . . You don't want to be grabbing a big old fistful of front brake when you're using a free hand to do anything if you can help it. Tim

[Kontact]

Humans are adaptable. The front brake caliper is not, and works better with a left lever.

[chismog]

So if it was to do with traffic and signaling.. it would make sense to have front right (Now that most bikes have both front and rear brakes..) Thereby allowing the left hand signaling and the best brake use at the same time.
But then it would follow that in the UK the reverse would be the case.. Which it is not.. so I am back to the beginning... it's not a discussion of ice cream flavors.. there is a custom here and I am trying to understand where it comes from..

You're confusing yourself. According to Chance's description, you signal with the hand closest to traffic, and brake with the "safer" (rear) brake with the other hand.

Thus in the US, signal with left, rear brake with right.
in the UK, signal with right, rear brake with left... exactly as you described in the OP.

I prefer chocolate myself. You switch hitters are part of some weird british invasion. Doesn't it goof up the routing of the brake cables? Are british frames setup with brake braze-ons on the other side to help with routing?

[dave thompson]

Humans are adaptable. The front brake caliper is not, and works better with a left lever.
An interesting statement. I looked at all of my bikes (all Shimano + 1 with Tektro) and only the V-brake would seem to be at a disadvantage with a right side front brake lever.

[UKBROOKLYN]

Lookit buddy... Raleigh made more bikes over the years than anyone else in history .. and every single one with the front brake on the right side..so steady on with the switch hitter remarks...(oops there I go again confusing american sports jargon with sexual innuendo...typical Britisher..)
Seriously though I am surprised that no one made the observation that if you do it with your left hand it feels like someone else.

[Kontact]

An interesting statement. I looked at all of my bikes (all Shimano + 1 with Tektro) and only the V-brake would seem to be at a disadvantage with a right side front brake lever.
Ride a bike with a 90mm head tube and you might see it a little differently.

But really, my main point is that humans are adaptable. I can eat a banana with either hand. This just isn't a question worth sweating over.

[verticaldoug]

I always thought you should grab and drink your bottle with your front brake hand. So left hand in the u.s., right hand in UK

[chismog]

Seriously though I am surprised that no one made the observation....

Good one! :D

[Tim Porter]

Kontact: some of us can operate the front brake fine with our right hand. If you can't, that's okay. With a headtube in the 145 range minimum, I guess I'm safe. :)

Hehehheh.

Tim

[Chance]

Found where most information in my previous post came from:

http://sheldonbrown.com/cables.html#handedness

•Right Front or Left Front? The usual system is to have the rear brake controlled by the lever on the side of the bicycle that corresponds to the side of the road that it will be driven on, i.e., right in most of the world; left in the British Isles, Japan, and other places where they drive on the left. (The European Union, however, has standardized on having the right-hand lever control the front brake).
Nobody knows exactly why this is. My theory is that it is based on the reasonable idea that you should be able to have your primary braking hand on the handlebars while making a turn signal with the appropriate hand -- coupled with the erroneous idea that the rear brake is the primary brake.

I prefer to set my own bicycles up with the front brake controlled by the right lever. This allows me to signal and stop at the same time, and also lets me use my stronger, more skillful hand for the more critical front brake. (I rarely use my rear brake.)

Since this is the opposite of the prevailing national standard in the USA, I would never set up a bicycle this way for a customer without a specific request to do so. I have an article on Braking and Turning which addresses these issues in more detail.

[allenwhy]

I am right handed, so I want my weaker (back) brake to be controlled by my stronger (right) hand, and my stronger (front) brake controlled by my weaker (left) hand, so I don't pony over my bars, and to equally use both brakes, which I enjoy doing as well.

[Tim Porter]

Cadel Evans manages, even with that shortish head tube:

http://cdn3.media.cyclingnews.futurecdn.net/2010/07/13/1/5_600.jpg

: )

[Kontact]

Kontact: some of us can operate the front brake fine with our right hand. If you can't, that's okay. With a headtube in the 145 range minimum, I guess I'm safe. :)

Hehehheh.

Tim
Really? I thought that was exactly the point I made: Humans can adapt to any brake/dining/nose picking situation with either hand.

Weird.

[Tim Porter]

Kontact: note that the point you were making about the front caliper not liking the right hand setup was not about adaptability. Likewise the point about the short headtubes. I like to tweak know-it-all comments sometimes . . . . My bad, not serious--agree that folks can adapt. Tim

[Louis]

I am right handed, so I want my weaker (back) brake to be controlled by my stronger (right) hand, and my stronger (front) brake controlled by my weaker (left) hand, so I don't pony over my bars, and to equally use both brakes, which I enjoy doing as well.

This is also how it was explained to me.

[Kontact]

Kontact: note that the point you were making about the front caliper not liking the right hand setup was not about adaptability. Likewise the point about the short headtubes. I like to tweak know-it-all comments sometimes . . . . My bad, not serious--agree that folks can adapt. Tim
Brake calipers generally don't display human adaptability. :confused:

I guess I was unclear: Since routing the cable is easier on my bikes with a left/front set up, I'd rather do that since I'm human, and can learn to clutch, brake, type, whatever with either hand.

Right/left dominance/strength arguments just don't matter with relatively gross hand motions, like using a brake.

Here's me typing if such things actually mattered:
Hi r5tgfrim, hqasagvbaew aAS nifdcceew CXXChreriswatrmaAASW.

[Joachim]

I'm left handed, but have my front brake on my left shifter and rear brake on my right shifter. When I asked my mechanic friend about left vs right for front and rear he told me "Stop thinking about it, do you have braking issues? If it ain't broke"....

[Louis]

Right/left dominance/strength arguments just don't matter with relatively gross hand motions, like using a brake.

Not sure I'd call brake force modulation a "gross hand motion."

But even if I did, one could argue that it's in gross motions that left/right strength differential is more critical, rather than in motions like moving a mouse, where strength is not a factor, but fine motor skills and hand-eye coordination are.

Caveat: I'm hardly a kinesiology expert.

[Kontact]

Not sure I'd call brake force modulation a "gross hand motion."

But even if I did, one could argue that it's in gross motions that left/right strength differential is more critical, rather than in motions like moving a mouse, where strength is not a factor, but fine motor skills and hand-eye coordination are.

Caveat: I'm hardly a kinesiology expert.
Well, have you ever braked with your non-dominant hand? How'd it work out?

[Louis]

Well, have you ever braked with your non-dominant hand? How'd it work out?

Fine - the front brake is very good at stopping the bike.

[dave thompson]

.............<snipped>This just isn't a question worth sweating over.

[Kontact]

.
My bad, Dave. No more replying when quoted.





After this one.

[ergott]

And now it's official. Winter is here. :rolleyes:

My hypothesis is simple. You ride the way you were taught. Plenty of people get along just fine either way. Neither is better for any reason. If someone handed me a bike set up the other way and I had to switch all my bikes, I'd make do.

Take the guitar. They make them for right and left handed players. Great.

Take the violin, viola, cello, double bass. They only make them right handed. I'm pretty sure there are some left handed people that learned to play a right handed string instrument.

You can come up with all sorts of reasons, the bottom line is it doesn't matter.

:beer:

[Louis]

For my next custom bike, I'm going with a left-side drivetrain, just so I can say "drive-side" and mean left, and thoroughly confuse everyone.

[Jaq]

The inventor of the Velocipede of ingenious design, one Kirkpatrick MacMillan, was a man of voracious intellect and had, like most Caledonians, an unquenchable thirst for the aquavitae.

Thus it happened that, whilst MacMillan was rehydrating with a dram or two of the good stuff (held in the left hand) after a hard 160 furlongs, he found himself approaching a pedestrian-filled intersection in Dumfries and unable to stop with his right hand as a) brakes hadn't been invented and b) even if they had been, he'd've arranged it so that the right brake stopped the rear wheel, because he was Scottish and naturally contrarian.

So one can imagine his horror upon striking a young girl (for which he was fined five shillings) and spilling his whisky (which he lamented until the day he died). From that day forward, he vowed to be able to stop with the right hand; thus British bikes brake the front wheel with the right lever.

True story.

[UKBROOKLYN]

First of all.. Kontact don't get too into the It doesn't matter thingy.. The original question was if there was a rationale in the first place. But that seems to have given over to a discussion on personal preference.. which is I guess OK too... Hmm I was right about lively discussions on these forums.. Well I think I will continue to use front right.. If its good enough for the yellow Jersey its good enough for me...And hey BTW they drive on the Left in Ozz..so yep there's something going on here..
And oh dear please don't confuse the Scots with the British... Britain is that part of the island south of the wall built by Hadrian in 122 CE to keep the Scots out. And the Scots are exceedingly proud of the fact... Nevertheless I believe they also favor righty frontie .. I wonder if they make padded kilts for riding in...

[Kontact]

First of all.. Kontact don't get too into the It doesn't matter thingy.. The original question was if there was a rationale in the first place. But that seems to have given over to a discussion on personal preference.. which is I guess OK too... Hmm I was right about lively discussions on these forums.. Well I think I will continue to use front right.. If its good enough for the yellow Jersey its good enough for me...And hey BTW they drive on the Left in Ozz..so yep there's something going on here..
And oh dear please don't confuse the Scots with the British... Britain is that part of the island south of the wall built by Hadrian in 122 CE to keep the Scots out. And the Scots are exceedingly proud of the fact... Nevertheless I believe they also favor righty frontie .. I wonder if they make padded kilts for riding in...
I don't mean that no one should have a preference, just that whatever your preference might be, you'll be able to adapt to it. I'm not trying to shut down your thread.

[UKBROOKLYN]

Just trying to get back to original question of if there is some kind of code or especial rationale behind the custom.

I guess we are still in the dark.. or mebee one of Napoleons sons did it....
Look OK I am English.. if we can blame it on the French we do..

[thinpin]

[QUOTE=Jaq]The inventor of the Velocipede of ingenious design, one Kirkpatrick MacMillan, was a man of voracious intellect and had, like most Caledonians, an unquenchable thirst for the aquavitae.

Thus it happened that, whilst MacMillan was rehydrating with a dram or two of the good stuff (held in the left hand) after a hard 160 furlongs, he found himself approaching a pedestrian-filled intersection in Dumfries and unable to stop with his right hand as a) brakes hadn't been invented and b) even if they had been, he'd've arranged it so that the right brake stopped the rear wheel, because he was Scottish and naturally contrarian.

So one can imagine his horror upon striking a young girl (for which he was fined five shillings) and spilling his whisky (which he lamented until the day he died). From that day forward, he vowed to be able to stop with the right hand; thus British bikes brake the front wheel with the right lever.

True story.[/QUOTE

:D Slainte