7speed components with 9/10 drive trains

[pavel]

Is there such a thing as a shiftmate type product to allow using 7speed derailleurs with 10 speed shifters?

I have a 1991 7 speed "A B" Chorus derailleur and I am wondering if I can use it with anything modern.

[oldpotatoe]

Is there such a thing as a shiftmate type product to allow using 7speed derailleurs with 10 speed shifters?

I have a 1991 7 speed "A B" Chorus derailleur that I am wondering if I can use with anything modern.

It won't work mostly because is was a poor design for index shifting, not because freewheels/cogsets of the time were 6/7 or 8s. Same for CDA and Athena of that era. Get a 1991/2 Campagnolo rear der, that will work fine with 10s ERGO/shifters as long as it isn't worn out. But that A-B Chorus was poor even when new with 7s freewheels/cogsets.

[pavel]

Thanks, OP.

[oliver1850]

I'm running an A/B Chorus with 7 speed Syncro 2 shifters and a Sachs freewheel with no issues.

I've had good luck at times getting a shiftmate to do things that it wasn't specifically designed for. What shifters are you thinking of using? I only have one shifmate on hand but could set it up and give it a try.

[Ralph]

AS I recall.....It all had something to do with Suntour's patent on the dual pivot RD, and Campy wanting for it to expire. After it expired, all could then copy it, and here we are today with all these great shifting rear derailleurs.

Or....is this just urban myth?

[oldpotatoe]

AS I recall.....It all had something to do with Suntour's patent on the dual pivot RD, and Campy wanting for it to expire. After it expired, all could then copy it, and here we are today with all these great shifting rear derailleurs.

Or....is this just urban myth?

No, that's pretty accurate, along with the CDA/A-B/Athena poor performance with Synco 1 and 2 shifters..multiple inserts,, poor freewheels of the day, etc.

[Kontact]

Suntour had a patent on the slant parallelogram. That Chorus derailleur has a nifty adjustable slant parallelogram.

The dual sprung derailleurs, like the current Campy, are a Shimano design called "servo pantagraph".

That vintage Chorus and Athena were decently designed index derailleurs. But they used a very short cable pull and were not designed in conjunction with a dedicated freewheel and chain, like Shimano and Suntour.

[oliver1850]

Campy also designed Syncro to be backwards compatible. They wanted their index shifters to work with NR, SR, etc. Hence all the different index gears. They would have been better served to draw a line between the old stuff and the indexed and start off fresh.

[Kontact]

Campy also designed Syncro to be backwards compatible. They wanted their index shifters to work with NR, SR, etc. Hence all the different index gears. They would have been better served to draw a line between the old stuff and the indexed and start off fresh.
Agreed. If they had just done a different shifter body for the post index Chorus and Athena they probably would have had better reps.

My Athena shifts fine with a Shimano 7 freewheel. I really like the feel, so it is fun to ride that bike.

[oliver1850]

I've only ridden the Basso a couple of times, but it worked fine right off the stand. I suspect the main issue will be lack of tension adjustment when riding. I've thought of putting an 8 speed style adjuster on the Syncro 2 lever. Would make it nicer to use, but a bit clunkier looking.

I have a 1st gen. Athena setup too, but haven't tried it yet.

[Kontact]

I've only ridden the Basso a couple of times, but it worked fine right off the stand. I suspect the main issue will be lack of tension adjustment when riding. I've thought of putting an 8 speed style adjuster on the Syncro 2 lever. Would make it nicer to use, but a bit clunkier looking.

I have a 1st gen. Athena setup too, but haven't tried it yet.
Instead of tension adjustment, you had the friction option. But really, how often should indexing go out after intial stretch/compression?


I have the blue insert for Athena with Shimano 7 freewheels. There was also a later gray insert (I think) that was supposed to work better. Instead of a B-screw there is an insert under the hanger bolt for positioning the jockey pulleys for various freewheel ratios. Selecting the right one helps, of course.

I have been tempted over the years to get more of this generation stuff, have the insert index notches welded up and re-cut with notches for 8, 9 or 10 speed compatibility.

But I just heard that a Campy 10 DT shifter will shift a Shimano/Sachs/Microshift RD perfectly for 8 speeds, so I think I'll give that a try.

[oldpotatoe]

Instead of tension adjustment, you had the friction option. But really, how often should indexing go out after intial stretch/compression?


I have the blue insert for Athena with Shimano 7 freewheels. There was also a later gray insert (I think) that was supposed to work better. Instead of a B-screw there is an insert under the hanger bolt for positioning the jockey pulleys for various freewheel ratios. Selecting the right one helps, of course.

I have been tempted over the years to get more of this generation stuff, have the insert index notches welded up and re-cut with notches for 8, 9 or 10 speed compatibility.

But I just heard that a Campy 10 DT shifter will shift a Shimano/Sachs/Microshift RD perfectly for 8 speeds, so I think I'll give that a try.


Or get a 3 spring DT shifter and use a 8, 9 or 10s insert. Or use friction like I do on a first gen Athena RD,

Weld and recut a shift disc? Yikes.

[pavel]

I'm running an A/B Chorus with 7 speed Syncro 2 shifters and a Sachs freewheel with no issues.

I've had good luck at times getting a shiftmate to do things that it wasn't specifically designed for. What shifters are you thinking of using? I only have one shifmate on hand but could set it up and give it a try.


I'd like to run an A/B chorus with Campy 10 Ergo levers and 10 cassette. Let me know if you try it!

[Kontact]

Or get a 3 spring DT shifter and use a 8, 9 or 10s insert. Or use friction like I do on a first gen Athena RD,

Weld and recut a shift disc? Yikes.
The problem with that is that the later derailleurs had much more cable wrap and larger shifter barrels. So four clicks in on an 3 spring would probably run the old derailleurs across their entire range.

This article shows how the various shifters and derailleurs compare cable pull wise. It doesn't show '80s Campy or SRAM road, though.

http://www.ctc.org.uk/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabID=3946

We talk about 1:1 and 2:1 derailleurs because of Shimano and SRAM, but old Campy was less than Shimano, and current Campy is somewhere in between. If more cable per shift is superior, Shimano is the most primitive system out there.

Anyway, I would have cut the notches with a file, not a milling machine. Hand work can be both quick and accurate if you have the nack.

I deepened the cable slot on a Sachs 8 speed shifter so it worked correctly with Shimano 8 cassettes. It took half an hour, and shifts great, now.

[oliver1850]

I'd like to run an A/B chorus with Campy 10 Ergo levers and 10 cassette. Let me know if you try it!

Was looking for the jtek earlier but didn't find it. Would be easy to try if I do, I think I have another A/B Chorus besides the one on the Basso. Of course don't know where it is either.

[macgee]

Revving an old post due to a complicated question and needing someone with heavy campy knowledge:

I have a beautiful old Olmo 126mm frame and matching campy wheelset with a freewheel threading on the hub that I would like to build up for around town.

I would like to use this bike with a flat bar & index thumb shifters (have not bought yet) with a Campy 9 speed Chorus rear derailleur (Chorus 9 speed is written on the derailleur) that I have laying around.

Is this set up doable?

Which index thumb shifters will work and I will most likely stuck using a 7sp freewheel?

Thanks

[pavel]

are you absolutely set on indexed shifters? riv silvers on paul thumbies would work quite nicely.

[macgee]

Thanks for the post.

Yes I am, if friction was not an issue then it would a very easy job.


I want to use the bike regularly with good index shifting & straight bars and need to find out what reliable index thumb shifters will work with a freewheel with either a 4.8mm or 5.0mm spacing between cogs and a campagnolo rear derailleur. There are very few mtb campy shifters available with almost zero info on them, not sure which ones are good and if they even have the same shift ratio as the road models or even compatible. Ergo and syncro ?

Would love to know if campy down tube index shifters will work with Paul thumbies. If so, which ones?

[cnighbor1]

there is on the market devices to use various compinations Even Campagnolo with shimano Mostly 9 8 10 combinations
I use 9 speed Dura ace bar vend shifter on five DA cog freewheel
Just need to try it
However I find there is little room for error Get it out of adjustment and hard to get back to working again

[oliver1850]

If your RD is an early 9 speed style, the most likely setup to work is find a pair of Icarus 8 speed thumbshifters. Campy 8 is 5 mm spacing, so you should be able to use a 7 speed 5 mm spaced freewheel. The last click of the shifter will not be used, as the limit screw on the RD will prevent it from moving that far. I don't know how hard finding the shifters will be. I have a pair of 6 speed Campy thumbshifters which could probably have the index gear changed to 7. I don't however have the brake levers that go with them, so have no way to mount them.

Honestly the more practical way to go about what you want to do is go with either a Suntour or Shimano 7 speed thumbshifter and rear derailleur.

[macgee]

The problem is I would like to keep it all italian and it involves old gear trying to mate semi-new technology. I've looked at the JTek shift-mate but it doesn't talk about 7 speed gear and can't find the shift ratio of the campy mtb thumb shifters. I have no idea if my 9 sp derailleur it's a new one or an old one.

I don't really need 8 speeds; Now a days I mostly ride a track gear now but was a cat 3 rider in the 80's and would like to turn one of my old race bikes into a town bike.

As much as i would just want to just try out an array of odd gear and see if its work there just way too many variables, potential cost and most importantly time to go into it without first doing some homework and asking someone who may actually know. I do have to admit, going shimano would be much easier but I would like to keep it italian if I can help it.

So I appreciate the time from everyone helping, I know it's complicated. Cheers

[oldpotatoe]

Revving an old post due to a complicated question and needing someone with heavy campy knowledge:

I have a beautiful old Olmo 126mm frame and matching campy wheelset with a freewheel threading on the hub that I would like to build up for around town.

I would like to use this bike with a flat bar & index thumb shifters (have not bought yet) with a Campy 9 speed Chorus rear derailleur (Chorus 9 speed is written on the derailleur) that I have laying around.

Is this set up doable?

Which index thumb shifters will work and I will most likely stuck using a 7sp freewheel?

Thanks

Not gonna find thumb shifters that will work with that Rder. Well, take 2. Find some 8s Campag MTB thumb shifters, mate to that RD, use a 7s freewheel and that will work.

OR find some Campag 3 spring DT shifters, install the 8s disc, put on Paul's thumbie mounts, use that RD, 7s freewheel.

[Mark McM]

AS I recall.....It all had something to do with Suntour's patent on the dual pivot RD, and Campy wanting for it to expire. After it expired, all could then copy it, and here we are today with all these great shifting rear derailleurs.

Or....is this just urban myth?

Almost true - the Suntour patent on the slant parallelogram (1964) had expired a few years before, and Shimano had already been using slant parallelograms in their SIS indexing systems (1985) before Campagnolo introduced their A/B Chorus derailleur (1987).

[oliver1850]

Here you go, problem solved:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Campagnolo-Euclid-Shift-Brake-Levers-7-speed-Index-Friction-89-91-NOS-/180894193730?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a1e225842

[macgee]

I'll get right on that, thanks.

[macgee]

I found some campy syncro 7sp down tube shifters; will they work with a 9 sp derailleur & 7 speed freewheel or will the parallelogram of the derailleur prevent this?

Will these down tube shifters work on Paul thumbs as the rear one has a large barrel on it? I only read that some DT shifters may work.

Using Dt shifters with the Paul Thumbies would be perfect if they are compatible.