Senna OT but fascinating

[Richard]

Just streamed Senna -- it was screened only briefly here -- and highly recommend it. A fascinating look at F1 racing and two very interesting personalities at its core. The racing footage is spectacular. I've never seen in car presentation that truly showed the racing at its hairy edge and conveyed the sense of being in the car like this does.

[dancinkozmo]

Senna ....arguably the greatest of all time

[JMerring]

Senna ....arguably the greatest of all time

argument could be made that he might have been the greatest if his career wasn't cut short. like him or not, schumacher is the goat. (and don't get me wrong - i'm a huuuuuuuuge senna fan - in the 90s i had one dog named ayrton, and the other one senna).

great flick, btw.

[d_man16]

Is it on Netflix?

I got an advanced copy in Portuguese it was still a great flick.

~D

[Richard]

Yes, Netflix. Curious...why is Schumacher the goat? He inhereted the mantle of best F1 racer, but Prost seemed to be the real heal in this saga.

[JMerring]

Yes, Netflix. Curious...why is Schumacher the goat? He inhereted the mantle of best F1 racer, but Prost seemed to be the real heal in this saga.

he "inherited the mantle"? he won more races than anyone. ever. he won more championships than anyone. ever. i haven't checked but i think he won more poles than anyone. ever. he completely turned around a failing team. isn't that enough?

it'll be fun to see if vettel can match him.

edit: from wikipedia, first paragraph: "Michael Schumacher (German pronunciation: [ˈmɪçaʔeːl ˈʃuːmaxɐ] ( listen); born 3 January 1969) is a German Formula One racing driver for the Mercedes GP team. Famous for his eleven-year spell with Ferrari, Schumacher is a seven-time World Champion and is widely regarded as the greatest F1 driver of all time.[2][3][4][5] He holds many of the formula's driver records, including most championships, race victories, fastest laps, pole positions, points scored and most races won in a single season – 13 in 2004. In 2002 he became the only driver in Formula One history to finish in the top three in every race of a season and then also broke the record for most consecutive podium finishes. According to the official Formula One website he is "statistically the greatest driver the sport has ever seen".[6]

"

[Richard]

I think Schumacher was an awesome driver, but I was asking why you noted that he was the goat. Would Senna have kept him from a pile of Schumacher's wins...maybe, probably, but great in his own right.

[dancinkozmo]

IMHO senna at his peak would beat shu at his peak...too bad we'll never know.

[JMerring]

I think Schumacher was an awesome driver, but I was asking why you noted that he was the goat. Would Senna have kept him from a pile of Schumacher's wins...maybe, probably, but great in his own right.



IMHO senna at his peak would beat shu at his peak...too bad we'll never know.


no question about senna's greatness and no question that he is among the best f1 drivers ever. based on records alone, however, nobody can touch schumey. not even close.

yes, it would've been interesting to see but we'll never know. senna's more beloved because of who he was, his panache, driving ability, the prost rivalry, etc. but schumacher's reign was incomparable, even if you're not favorably disposed to him as a person (i am, by the way, but get why others aren't; still, i think he should've stayed retired).

[Ti Designs]

Would it be possible to get banned from this forum by bringing up the name of just about any Nascar driver???

[dancinkozmo]

....I always root for the cars sponsored by "pamprin" or "vagisil"

[handsomerob]

As someone that was a big Schumi fan... after seeing some less than sportsmanlike antics unbecoming someone of his stature... I will enjoy seeing Vettel best his marks. With Sebs driving ability in all conditions (damn he is sick in the wet) and Newey's genious... the sky is the limit.

on the flipside, I am not really interested in watching another season of dominance like 2011. I can't imagine how awesome it would be to get more than 3 teams in the mix.

[bagochips3]

Top Gear's tribute to Senna is worth watching:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNmqn3heGgE

[zap]

in the netflix cue....hope to see it soon.

[malcolm]

Looks like F1 in Austin, Tx is a go for Nov. '12. They also have a moto gp contract, maybe Vale and ducati will have the bikes fixed by then. I've heard moto gp is moving toward rule changes that will make it more like AMA superbikes.

[William]

in the netflix cue....hope to see it soon.


^^^
Ditto!

Thanks for the tip.




William

[goonster]

based on records alone, however, nobody can touch schumey. not even close.
I don't know any serious motorsports fan who bestows the "greatest ever" title based on records alone.

(N.B. Jim Clark was more dominant in his career than Schumi)

We are not talking about Senna today because of titles or records, we are talking about him because of how he drove. Indeed, some of the moments that captured our imaginations most vividly do not show up on a tally of victories, e.g. Monte Carlo '84.

I grew up a Niki Lauda fan (they do exist!), and was never much enamored of Senna at the time, but in the hearts and minds of fans today he enjoys a legacy Schumacher cannot match.

[dsb]

I always liked Lauda...

Before Senna I was a big Gilles Villeneuve fan...
Yes, Jacques' dad...

Senna was a genius behind the wheel...

The film was great, but very sad... Makes you wonder how much the rule changes had to do with his death... and reminds me why I dislike Prost...

[Ti Designs]

Top Gear's tribute to Senna is worth watching

I don't see why they made such a big deal of his aggressive driving style where he would put himself into a gap knowing the other driver would have to yield - that's how soccer moms drive their minivans around here.

[JMerring]

I don't know any serious motorsports fan who bestows the "greatest ever" title based on records alone.

(N.B. Jim Clark was more dominant in his career than Schumi)

We are not talking about Senna today because of titles or records, we are talking about him because of how he drove. Indeed, some of the moments that captured our imaginations most vividly do not show up on a tally of victories, e.g. Monte Carlo '84.

I grew up a Niki Lauda fan (they do exist!), and was never much enamored of Senna at the time, but in the hearts and minds of fans today he enjoys a legacy Schumacher cannot match.

records are the only way to do it with any objectivity. otherwise it's really a function of i like x better than y because of z. or i'm not a 'serious f1 fan' (but that's not true, either). and don't get me wrong - i like senna more than i do schumacher, and while i feel that senna was the more talented driver (whatever that means), i also know that his record pales in comparison to schumacher's (it really does).

let's not also forget that senna had his own (dare i say schumacher-like?) run-ins with prost. nor the fact that the manner of his death, occurring where and how it did, when he was in the prime of his career, may also lead those of us who saw him drive to have an idealized and romanticized view of him that we can't have of the living and (should have been forever) retired.

[r_mutt]

i wanted more. i thought the film was rather weak. i knew most everything (factually) in the film. there were no real insights, and most of all, no real drama. the film skipped through an entire season(s) to end up in suzuka. the entire film focused on the 2 1st lap incidents at suzuka. it could have been so much better.

[choke]

records are the only way to do it with any objectivity. But what record do you use? Most wins? Most in a season? Wins as a percentage of starts? Schumacher may be at the top of the list on the first two not the latter.

I'm one of the few people who like Schumacher better than Senna and I still wouldn't call Michael the GOAT. IMO the GOAT was Juan Manuel Fangio, who just happens to own that last record above, though that's not the reason I choose him. I'd also place Clark above Schumacher on my list.

[soulspinner]

But what record do you use? Most wins? Most in a season? Wins as a percentage of starts? Schumacher may be at the top of the list on the first two not the latter.

I'm one of the few people who like Schumacher better than Senna and I still wouldn't call Michael the GOAT. IMO the GOAT was Juan Manuel Fangio, who just happens to own that last record above, though that's not the reason I choose him. I'd also place Clark above Schumacher on my list.


You sir, have it right , although the machines are so diff now......

[TimD]

Senna ....arguably the greatest of all time

Keyword: "arguably". Especially if "sportsmanship" is not a criterion.

[TimD]

... but Prost seemed to be the real heal in this saga.

I think that would be "heel", and even the producer admits Prost is portrayed unfairly in this film.

If you want a more accurate portrayal of Prost in the context of this relationship, try "Memoirs of a Racing Man", by Jo Ramirez.

[TimD]

... the entire film focused on the 2 1st lap incidents at suzuka. it could have been so much better.

1989 (chicane) - Lap 46
1990 (1st turn) - Lap 1

[JMerring]

But what record do you use? Most wins? Most in a season? Wins as a percentage of starts? Schumacher may be at the top of the list on the first two not the latter.

I'm one of the few people who like Schumacher better than Senna and I still wouldn't call Michael the GOAT. IMO the GOAT was Juan Manuel Fangio, who just happens to own that last record above, though that's not the reason I choose him. I'd also place Clark above Schumacher on my list.

Total no of wins and most importantly no of world championships. The rest is just fluff.

[Richard]

Thanks for the grammer lesson, but sometimes touch typing and grammer/spelling become disconnected. Interesting note about Prost is that he was a pallbearer and is listed as a trustee of Senna's foundation, so, sure, there is probably more to this than is shown.