I am one mad dude!!!

[sirroada]

I have got to vent!!! I think it would be appropriate to do it here on this forum and get your opinions. I just purchased a brand new legend Ti. $7500 all said and done. I picked it up two months ago. Today I was out riding and I was coasting (not pedaling) at about 10 MPH when all of a sudden, for no particular reason a rear drive side spoke decided to break on my brand new Ksyirium SL wheels. My legend is painted with the Sizzler GS and 1/4 polish. Well the drive side chain stay and the non-drive side seat stay got some pretty deep gouges in them (NOT surface scratches). I am pissed off, needless to say. Do you think Mavic should be responsible for fixing my frame as well as their crappy wheels (which if I can't trust them coasting at 10 MPH I definately will not ride them down a hill at 50 MPH). The warranty on Mavic Ksyiriums are for 2 years for those who will ask.

[Kevan]

is likely to tick you off that much more.

My guess is their warranty extends no further than their rims. You could take them to court, but you know what that means.

Try to stay as calm as possible and work with all vendors involved for the least expensive solution that will return a bug catching smile to your face. Good luck.

[Doc Austin]

I'de be hot too. Since you bought it built, I think your bike shop has an obligation to help you out, at least in getting somebody to warrany the repair and repaint.

I had Serotta repaint my CSI and it's beter than ever. If you send it back to Serotta to get it fixed you'll never know the difference.

[Fixed]

That is a drag bro see if your bike shop will help, sounds like you are a good customer.you'll get a lot of good advice here and some of these guys have been thru what you are going thru.Good luck

[Needs Help]

...if I can't trust them coasting at 10 MPH I definately will not ride them down a hill at 50 MPH).
The bright side: you weren't going 50 mph down a hill when it happened. No injuries, no massive hospital bills, no laywer's fees. Your alive and healthy. Life is sweet.

There was a recent post about a racer who veered to the outside of the pack as he sprinted for the finish line, and with his head down and digging for every last watt, he hit a pole head on and was killed. There was another post about a female racer who got dropped and was trying to catch the pack when she crashed and was paralyzed from the waist down.

You dodged a bullet. Count your blessings.

Although, it doesn't seem right that just because you didn't get splattered all over the pavement, you can't sue for the same damages. Mavic put your life at risk. You should have some recourse.

[Proxy]

its not what you want to hear and I feel your pain, but $hit happens - for this exact same reason I stopped using low spoke wheels around 4 years ago, I had a K give way in the back (broke off at the drive side, the ball on the spoke end snapped off) and my day was done, the wheel was so tweaked I could barley make it back – now its nothing but 32 hole rims – lose a spoke and keep riding for the most part.

[Serpico]

...

There was a recent post about a racer who veered to the outside of the pack as he sprinted for the finish line, and with his head down and digging for every last watt, he hit a pole head on and was killed. There was another post about a female racer who got dropped and was trying to catch the pack when she crashed and was paralyzed from the waist down.

You dodged a bullet. Count your blessings.

...

+1

[Dekonick]

Get membership in the Serotta owners club. Its basically an insurance policy.

Bike gets run over by a car? Frame is $250. Frame can be repaired? Free.

You are on your own as far as components go but the owners club is a bargain. Wish I could get the Legend I bought from Too Tall in the plan (its used so no dice. Yours is new so you should be just fine.)

Bummer about the wheels.

Did you have a spare spoke with you to repair the wheel? I know when I ride with friends that have low count wheels they usually have 1 or 2 spokes with them if its a long ride.

32 spokes for me :)

[Peter]

It is a bike.
It is a tool.
It is made to be used.
In the process of using it, the frame will experience wear and tear, including scratches. This produces character. All your possessions will experience the same fate.
If you think it's a piece of art, then hang it on the wall and stare at it; don't ride it, because if you do, it will get scratched. Gouges? Caused by what; a broken spoke? The rim? The tire? Make believers out of us doubting Thomases by posting photos.
Gee; when I break a spoke on my 32H wheels, it doesn't go nearly as badly out of whack as to touch the chainstays or the seatstays. I just discovered another drawback to those minimal spoked wheels, and another advantage to traditional wheels.
If this kind of damage makes you mad, then you paid too much for your bike.

[Louis]

Peter,

That's a bit harsh IMO. The guy's not posting to get lectured, but to receive a bit of sympathy. Take it easy on him right now - he's in a fragile state of mind. :)

Louis

[cyclesberuff]

I once broke two spokes in my front wheel ascending mt.mitchell in nc and did not think about it much untill I started the descent.wow I was lucky 25 years of being a cyclist came in hand.The bike started a vibration that only became worse when I applied the brakes I knew that if i tried to stop I would surely crash at speed. for 7 miles at 50 mph the bike shook violently and more spokes broke. all I could think of; where was my place to die. thank God that did not happen instead I let the bike do what it wanted I did not have much choice.did I learn my lesson? no I went to asheville bikes and purchased another wheel for a better attempt the following day.yeah i climbed the mt twice in two days :banana:

[dirtdigger88]

sorry to hear that man- now for more bad news- Mavic aint helping ya' :crap: All is not lost though- bikes will have scars- scars tell a story- in a few years yours will have evolved into how you held her upright when a spoke launched as 65mph- In the Alps!! So run with it and have fun

Chicks dig scars- even ones on your bike

now go ride
Jason

[vaxn8r]

I've broken so many spokes over the years. Funny thing is the last few times I was going really slow. Once about 3 mph and once about 15 mph.

I've broken spokes on my Rolf Elans...low spoke wheels and it didn't cost me a ride or ruin my day. I removed the spoke, opened the brakes up and finished the ride. Sure, I've broken spokes on 32 spoke wheels too. The wheel is just as wacked as the low spoke wheels. I still have to open the brakes all the way up to ride it.

I don't get the whole thing about being stranded if you break a spoke. I think some of you guys are just afraid to ride the bike if it isn't "perfect".

[Doc Austin]

It is a bike.

In the process of using it, the frame will experience wear and tear, including scratches. This produces character.

It would be nice to have it more than two months before "character" set in.


If this kind of damage makes you mad, then you paid too much for your bike.

It's a Serotta. Of course he paid too much for it.

My CSI was getting pretty beat up, but it had 30,000 miles on it. I can live with that, but having a stupidly expensive set of supposedly quality wheels crap out at low speed is not only the responsibility of the wheel maker to fix, but if Mavic doesn't take care of this guy's bike they'll never see any money from me or anybody I ever talk about bikes too. I was actually considering a set of them because I've heard they are pretty nice, but I'm going to watch this one pretty closely.

sirroada, please let me know how this works out for you.

[vaxn8r]

It would be nice to have it more than two months before "character" set in.




It's a Serotta. Of course he paid too much for it.

My CSI was getting pretty beat up, but it had 30,000 miles on it. I can live with that, but having a stupidly expensive set of supposedly quality wheels crap out at low speed is not only the responsibility of the wheel maker to fix, but if Mavic doesn't take care of this guy's bike they'll never see any money from me or anybody I ever talk about bikes too. I was actually considering a set of them because I've heard they are pretty nice, but I'm going to watch this one pretty closely.

sirroada, please let me know how this works out for you.

Oh yeah, I should have added that Mr Rolf personally picked up my wheelset and had it back the next day each time (3 times in all...which really fried me). This last time they completely rebuilt the rear wheel. No charge on any of the repairs.

My shop has not seen anyone else breaking spokes with Elans. Anyone else?

Anyway, yeah I think Mavic and the shop ought to stand behind the wheel.

[dirtdigger88]

sure vax- they sould stand behind the wheel but good luck on the paint- there will be not help there

Jason

[sirroada]

Doc Austin, I totally agree. I have a much less expensive trek 2300 that has 12000 miles on it. It made it to 10,000 miles before character set in. I don't mind scratches, but I mind them when they are caused by a poorly built, overpriced wheelset on a bike that has less than 500 miles on it. By the way, when the spoke broke the wheel bent so badly that even releasing the brake, and brake cable would not allow the wheel to spin freely so I had to bare-foot it home (first day of my life I didn't bring a cell phone along). Anyway, I didn't mind the walk...it was a beautiful day...but do mind the scratches. Peter, I feel sorry for you. Do you go through life questioning everything someone says to you? Do you think that I am making up this little story to get Mavic to pay for a scratch on my serotta? If you do I have a recommendation...GET A LIFE. If you owned a Rolls Royce (arguably a work of art), would you drive it? Yes, I would too. You don't buy a car like that to look at it, or any car for that matter. If the door handle broke off your brand new Rolls while you were opening the door, and in the process of breaking it leaves a 3 inch gouge in the door, would you be mad? I would to. Would expect the warranty to pay for it? I'm sure you would. If you didn't you must have another quarter million laying around to buy another Rolls. Well a Serotta is the Rolls of the bike world. I want it fixed and I ain't paying for it.

[Roy E. Munson]

sirroada said: "If the door handle broke off your brand new Rolls while you were opening the door, and in the process of breaking it leaves a 3 inch gouge in the door, would you be mad?"

This analogy is irrelevant.
Serotta built the frame, Mavic built the wheels. How can one be responsible for the others work?

Rolls Royce built the doors and door handles of that car, so they are responsible for the car as a whole.

[Blastinbob]

My shop has not seen anyone else breaking spokes with Elans. Anyone else?.

I broke a rear non-drive side spoke on my Elans and the same thing happened to my beautiful JB paint job on my Kirk, chop, chop, chop. :crap: only had 300 miles on them too !

[weisan]

I broke a rear non-drive side spoke on my Elans and the same thing happened to my beautiful JB paint job on my Kirk, chop, chop, chop. :crap: only had 300 miles on them too !

Reduce Weight. Cut down on the farm feed.

[Jeff N.]

I popped a spoke on my rear black Ksyrium recently (Seven Axiom Ti) and although the rim was wobbling dramatically, it wasn't so bad that I couldn't make it home with it that way. The tire was juuuuust barely touching the right chain stay. Took the wheel to my LBS, had the spoke replaced and wheel trued while I waited, and 15 bucks later was out the door.
These wheels had several thousand miles on them. But if I encountered the problem described by sirroda, with the bike and wheels just off the showroom floor, I'd be fuming too...especially when the spoke caused frame damage. Thats just a complete drag, man. Hope everything gets resolved to your satisfaction. But there'll be hoops to jump through, I suspect, before it gets that way.Jeff N.

[big D]

His analogly is relevent. He purchased a complete bike. When you purchase a car the components are not all made the same manufacture. Just becuase Rolls Royce would have built the car they did not make all the components.

It would be different if he purchased a frame and built it up himself. If the frame came from Serotta with these parts then Serotta has some responsibilty to help him with the fixing his frame and getting Mavic to fix those crappy wheels. I'm not saying Serotta is at fault but they are acting as the manufacture of the this bike, not the frame. If you where to buy a Ferrari and your brakes failed, Brembo is not resposible, Ferrari is. If the shop built his Serotta then they have to take the responsiblity and should help get his frame fixed and apply pressure to have Mavic fix those crappy wheels. Serotta or the shop is acting as an agent for Mavic in these case so they should be willing help this customer put pressure on Mavic America to get his wheel replaced and his frame fixed.

[sirroada]

Well said Big D. Just like our bikes all auto manufactures use many different companies to make their parts.

[Roy E. Munson]

Did you buy the entire bike from Serotta, or just the frame?

[dirtdigger88]

Serotta didnt sell a bike they sold a frame and fork- thats all-

Mavic's product failed- but in you read the warrenty you are out of luck- Im not saying it right- but from a business stand point I understand-

Jason

[dirtdigger88]

nm.

[dirtdigger88]

http://www.khcycle.com.sg/warranty_mavic.htm

read what is says under obligations- sorry to say you are dead in the water

Jason

[Keith A]

I had a rear spoke break on my Rolf Vector Pros while riding my CSi. The rear wheel went way out of true, but I was able to get the wheel to go around with some rubbing. Unfortunately, I was a long way from home and no cell phone, so I rode it home slowly and the tire rubbed through the paint inside the chainstays :crap: I had the wheel repaired and then sold them! I've been on 32 spoked wheels ever since.

It seems to me that your best chance at getting some satisfaction is from the LBS that you bought the complete bike from. I agree with Jason that Mavic is most likely not going to do anything. So, I would pressure the LBS to take care of the problem -- including having your frame repaired. They may have to eat the cost of the repairs themselves. But if they value you as a customer and hope to get more business from you (and your friends) in the future, they should hopefully see that whatever expenditures they make now, will come back to them later on.

[Proxy]

Well a Serotta is the Rolls of the bike world. I want it fixed and I ain't paying for it. but this kind of stuff cracks me up, rolls of the bike world, as in quality or more expensive than anything else? ever take a good look at a Time VXRS? now there is MY rolls - to each there own. Mavic will pay for the spoke, nothing more - you are on your own for the frame and paint - bike still rides the same, weekend coming up - enjoy it.

[cdmc]

I will start by saying that it really sucks that the spoke damaged your paint. I would be upset also if it happened. Unfortunately, Mavic will not cover the damage to your paint. Heck, with Mavic you will be lucky if they actually repair the wheel. As far as the shop covering it, it isn't their fault and I wouldn't expect them to cover it.

[dirtdigger88]

As far as the shop covering it, it isn't their fault and I wouldn't expect them to cover it.

no kidding- why would you want the shop to take a loss on a bike because a spoke damaged the paint- I am still having a hard time understanding if you have 1/4 Ti (on the rear- right) arent the chain stays bare ti- where is the paint damage

Jason

[FunkyPorcini]

Oh, that one there, that was when someone opened their car door into it in the parking lot of a race. And THAT one happened when I was cranking along and popped a spoke in the back on a ****ty pair of K's. Oh and this chain seat stay was from when I was taking a turn at 45 mph in the rains of Tuscany.

Ahhh, the beauty of owning a hand built piece of machinery from the start.

Wallow in the stories, they are what make life.

--Sorry if that felt like a lecture. I didn't mean it to--

[Tom]

I had my CSi repainted after I beat the paint off a couple of places and about the second ride out sucked a piece of debris through the back wheel and tore the paint off the stays on each side... boy was I mad!

Fortunately stays are thick and I could patch it up so it doesn't glare at you like what I did to the top tube before the repaint.

[JohnS]

no kidding- why would you want the shop to take a loss on a bike because a spoke damaged the paint- I am still having a hard time understanding if you have 1/4 Ti (on the rear- right) arent the chain stays bare ti- where is the paint damage

Jason
I just reread the orignal post and he mentioned nothing about "paint". It appears that he said that there were "gouges" in the bare ti. That's a whole new ballgame in my book.

[dirtdigger88]

I just reread the orignal post and he mentioned nothing about "paint". It appears that he said that there were "gouges" in the bare ti. That's a whole new ballgame in my book.

not really- it is still not Serottas "fault" that it happened-

read Serotta's warranty-

http://www.serotta.com/pages/warranty.html

Jason

[Proxy]

I just reread the orignal post and he mentioned nothing about "paint". It appears that he said that there were "gouges" in the bare ti. That's a whole new ballgame in my book.

scratched paint, gouges, who cares - if he wants to make it right then its his dime, mavic will give him $ 5 towards a new spoke, period - the bike took a hit, I am sure nothing structural happened to it from a alloy spoke.

[JohnS]

No, I'm on your side. Scratches in ti, in my opinion, are nowhere as bad as gouged paint. I don't think that it's anybody's fault. Doo-doo happens. I got hit by a car when I had 900mi on my Concours. So what!

[Big Dan]

call me crazy but....
I thought one of the selling points for Ti frames was the tough finish..........


:confused:

:bike:

[shaq-d]

i agree with Peter.

it's a scratch. let it be or fix it and move on. scratches happen. if that gets u all tossed up, i don't nkow how u handle all the crap cycling doles out.

as for what u can do, u can talk to mavic and the lbs. if they don't help, u can take it to small claims court. have fun with that.

or do what normal people do, move on.

sd

[sirroada]

It's gouges in the bare titanium. I called Serotta this AM and they stated they would have to replace the chainstay due to the GOUGES. In addition, they would have to repaint the entire frame. Total bill $1300. To bad some of you do not appreciate the value of a dollar but that bike was expensive and if Mavic sells me a set of wheels for 800 bucks and they break in a couple of months and damage my bike to the tune of $1300 bucks I am not going to just move on as some of you would like me to. If this bike was 2 years old I wouldn't give a $@#%!! Their wheel is warranted from manufacturing defects for a period of two years from the original date of purchase. Regardless of what Mavic may say, that means they are responsible for the failed part and any damage that may happen as a result of that failed part be it bodily or property damage. They may not believe that, however, that is their legal responsibility if they choose to business in the USA. Mavic HAS a responsibility in this issue.

[Roy E. Munson]

they break in a couple of months

I thought they were a few days old! You're SOL, if you ask me.

Have you considered getting another cheaper bike that you can ride, and getting this one repainted and leaving it at home all the time to look at?

[sirroada]

You buy a bike to ride it not look at it. It seems you are missing the point.

[Roy E. Munson]

.

[shiftinjon]

How does a broken aluminum spoke(these spokes are aluminum, right?) gouge titanium at 10mph ?:confused: Same question for stainless spokes. :confused:

hmmmm....i guess it could happen...

[dirtdigger88]

waste of time buy hey go for it- let us know how it turns out

Jason

[christian]

Mavic's warranty specifically states they won't be held liable for incidental damage. You're up the creek, I'm afraid. And despite some responses, I'm not sure what Serotta or your shop could possibly do about it. Frankly, I don't think you have any other option but to suck it up and just ride the thing.

It certainly reinforces my notions about Ksyriums, though.

- Christian

[Proxy]

It's gouges in the bare titanium. I called Serotta this AM and they stated they would have to replace the chainstay due to the GOUGES. In addition, they would have to repaint the entire frame. Total bill $1300. To bad some of you do not appreciate the value of a dollar but that bike was expensive and if Mavic sells me a set of wheels for 800 bucks and they break in a couple of months and damage my bike to the tune of $1300 bucks I am not going to just move on as some of you would like me to. If this bike was 2 years old I wouldn't give a $@#%!! Their wheel is warranted from manufacturing defects for a period of two years from the original date of purchase. Regardless of what Mavic may say, that means they are responsible for the failed part and any damage that may happen as a result of that failed part be it bodily or property damage. They may not believe that, however, that is their legal responsibility if they choose to business in the USA. Mavic HAS a responsibility in this issue.

are you really serious, you are going to bring an action against mavic? you are in a dream world if you think you will get anywhere with this, they could care less about you as a customer - they are french and will laugh at you. there is no way a alloy spoke did any this structural to the frame - you are throwing good money away, yes - yours to throw, when you could be dumping those wheels and throwing $ 300 towards mike garcia in order to prevent it in the future. its a Fing frame, get real.

[dirtdigger88]

isnt this great- Im not a lawyer but I do run a large company- I have been down the legal route before- The warranties are iron clad- I have provided both companies warranty info- both of which clearly state that he is SOL- but if he wants to sue in international court- :D Like I said just keep me in the loop- I love a good laugh-

I am not laughing at your bike being damaged- I think that sucks- but damn guy- you got less of a chance than a snow ball in hell

http://www.jcnot4me.com/images/snowball_in_hell-gif.gif

Jason

[Roy E. Munson]

sirroada,

Any chance you could snap a photo of the gouges and post it so we can see the damage?

Thanks

[JohnS]

I just went back through sirroada's posts. He hasn't been happy with his bike since he got it. He's complained about the paint "blemishes", they put on the wrong seatpost, etc, etc. Since this is the new, kindler, gentler forum, I won't make any of the comments that I'm known for at this time.

[gdw]

I understand your frustration but can't see how an aluminum alloy spoke can trash a stay so badly that it has to be replaced. Could you post a couple pictures of the damage?

[dirtdigger88]

I just went back through sirroada's posts. He hasn't been happy with his bike since he got it. He's complained about the paint "blemishes", they put on the wrong seatpost, etc, etc. Since this is the new, kindler, gentler forum, I won't make any of the comments that I'm known for at this time.

word :cool:

Jason

[vaxn8r]

I never meant to imply the shop should stand behind frame repair. But if the shop sold the wheels and he popped a spoke in a couple of months then they ought to see to it that the wheel is repaired Any good shop could repair that wheel in 2 minutes. That sounds reasonable to me. I would not hold Serotta or the shop liable for a blemish in the inner CS which no one will see unless the bike is in a stand.

[djg]

I'd be pretty frustrated myself. Personally, I'm no kind of expert on commercial law, or Minnesota law, or Minnesota law of express and implied warranties (or how close they stick to the Uniform Commercial Code), but it may or may not be that you have a claim against Mavic, the shop, or both. If you want a legal opinion, you need to go elsewhere. Really.

So for the unofficial gasbag tour: Typically, products are sold with express warranties (the stuff that's actually said, say, printed on the warranty card or in other sales materials--up front) and implied warranties (such as the "implied warranty of merchantability" or the "implied warranty of fitness for a particular purpose"). Depending on state law, they may or may not support your claims, and they may or may not be subject to defenses (trashed by other legal theories) such as "assumption of the risk" or a manufacturer "disclaimer." So, maybe you're in the right, because you bought these brand new goods and used them for their intended purpose, and in the proper way, and they broke and caused your damages, or maybe not, because (a) despite all of your reasonable conduct, folks know that sporting goods generally and bike stuff in particular may be subject to all sorts of stresses under all sorts of conditions, and can break, causing stuff and people to get hurt, and you went out and bought and used this potentially dangerous stuff anyway, (b) Mavic and/or the shop told you to watch out, because stuff happens, and they told you in the right way, so you were warned (or both a & b). Or maybe something else entirely.

If I had to guess, I'd guess that you're out of luck, due to one or another of these defenses, but I'm just guessing and I really don't have any particular conviction in my guess. If you're curious about an actual legal opinion, you should consult a lawyer in your state (or licensed to practice there). Or you can always wing it in small claims court. Or not.

It's a drag either way. My own ad hoc experience with Ks (the old SSC model) has been to find them very sturdy, which is what several folks I know have also found. And I'm surprised that a broken spoke would put a significant gash in a Ti stay. But your experience is your experience, and a drag even if it's rare. Good luck.

[champlemon]

First of all Sirroada... sorry about the problem... what a downer!

As much as I sympathize with what happened to you... It looks like the only recourse you may have is having the bike shop where you bought the entire bike to pitch in and help. Not fair, unjust, but real.

But your dilemma has got me thinking... OH NO! AM I REALLY THINKING? :confused:

Let me philosophize if you will... We all know how materialism is evil... Yadda, Yadda, Yadda... But the reason we share this forum is because we love [love with a lower case L] bikes...

Bikes are a thing of beauty and harmony and riding them takes you to a different place...

With all that said... when something is broken or damaged in my bike... I just gotta fix it... or it doesn't feel right...

Where do we draw the line? I mean... this applies to all material things... but we obviously care for different material things for different reasons...

Anyway... sorry again for the damage, I'm just gald you are OK... don't pay any attention to my discourse... it's just me thinking out loud...

[pjm]

By the way, this could happen with any wheel. I've had spokes let loose on hand built wheels that flopped around and dinged up my stays before I could stop. I can see how the beefy K spokes might inflict more damage, though.

[csb]

! twist their nipples !

[bulliedawg]

I'd be pretty frustrated myself. Personally, I'm no kind of expert on commercial law, or Minnesota law, or Minnesota law of express and implied warranties (or how close they stick to the Uniform Commercial Code), but it may or may not be that you have a claim against Mavic, the shop, or both. If you want a legal opinion, you need to go elsewhere. Really.

So for the unofficial gasbag tour: Typically, products are sold with express warranties (the stuff that's actually said, say, printed on the warranty card or in other sales materials--up front) and implied warranties (such as the "implied warranty of merchantability" or the "implied warranty of fitness for a particular purpose"). Depending on state law, they may or may not support your claims, and they may or may not be subject to defenses (trashed by other legal theories) such as "assumption of the risk" or a manufacturer "disclaimer." So, maybe you're in the right, because you bought these brand new goods and used them for their intended purpose, and in the proper way, and they broke and caused your damages, or maybe not, because (a) despite all of your reasonable conduct, folks know that sporting goods generally and bike stuff in particular may be subject to all sorts of stresses under all sorts of conditions, and can break, causing stuff and people to get hurt, and you went out and bought and used this potentially dangerous stuff anyway, (b) Mavic and/or the shop told you to watch out, because stuff happens, and they told you in the right way, so you were warned (or both a & b). Or maybe something else entirely.

If I had to guess, I'd guess that you're out of luck, due to one or another of these defenses, but I'm just guessing and I really don't have any particular conviction in my guess. If you're curious about an actual legal opinion, you should consult a lawyer in your state (or licensed to practice there). Or you can always wing it in small claims court. Or not.

It's a drag either way. My own ad hoc experience with Ks (the old SSC model) has been to find them very sturdy, which is what several folks I know have also found. And I'm surprised that a broken spoke would put a significant gash in a Ti stay. But your experience is your experience, and a drag even if it's rare. Good luck.

I bought an Epson Printer from Best Buy that pooped the bed in about a month. Tried to return it to Best Buy. They would only except an exchange for the same printer. I refused, my logic being that I wasn't going to buy another Epson only to have the same thing happen.

I refused to take the defective printer home with me. The manager followed me out the door carrying the printer, saying, "You have to take this with you!" Last I saw the thing he had placed on the sidewalk in front of the store.

I sued Best Buy in small claims court under the Georgia Code provision for implied warranty. Obviously, it's implied that a printer will last longer than a month. Had the papers served on my local Best Buy, and on the registered agent, who was in the corporate headquarters.

A day before they were due to answer my lawsuit, somebody with a Minnesota accent called me and asked if I wanted gift certificates or cash. I took the cash. They had to pay my filing fee also. Bought me an HP at Circuit City, and never looked back

[pjm]

they are french and will laugh at you.
Your mother was a hamster and your father smelled of elderberries-I fart in your general direction! Ptttttthhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!! :banana:

[cyclesberuff]

well i've been following this thread for four pages now,i'm sorry to say that Sirroada's experience is a leeson for all of us.I have been a firm believer in steel and 32 spokes, his problems only drive the point home.
Every year when the TDF is on TV, the accidents they show in sprints always shows someone in the background with one bike in two pieces always cabon frames.I know he had TI, but a but an exotic wheelset that went bad. IMHO highend exotic material should only be used by athletes who are gifted enough to have high performance equip given to them for free.If I were to drive a formula one car down the streets of DC then I would expect the cost of the damage to be consistant with the overall cost of the vehicle.I'm sorry to see this happen to him and would not ridicule him for being mad.High performance parts do not always mean high durability.Good luck with solving this problem.

[92degrees]

I bought an Epson Printer from Best Buy that pooped the bed in about a month. Tried to return it to Best Buy. They would only except an exchange for the same printer. I refused, my logic being that I wasn't going to buy another Epson only to have the same thing happen.

I refused to take the defective printer home with me. The manager followed me out the door carrying the printer, saying, "You have to take this with you!" Last I saw the thing he had placed on the sidewalk in front of the store.

I sued Best Buy in small claims court under the Georgia Code provision for implied warranty. Obviously, it's implied that a printer will last longer than a month. Had the papers served on my local Best Buy, and on the registered agent, who was in the corporate headquarters.

A day before they were due to answer my lawsuit, somebody with a Minnesota accent called me and asked if I wanted gift certificates or cash. I took the cash. They had to pay my filing fee also. Bought me an HP at Circuit City, and never looked back

Good job. Wouldn't the equivalent situation be something like your printer died spilling ink all over your Persian rug and you sued to have the rug repaired as well?

[JohnS]

well i've been following this thread for four pages now,i'm sorry to say that Sirroada's experience is a leeson for all of us.I have been a firm believer in steel and 32 spokes, his problems only drive the point home.
Every year when the TDF is on TV, the accidents they show in sprints always shows someone in the background with one bike in two pieces always cabon frames.I know he had TI, but a but an exotic wheelset that went bad. IMHO highend exotic material should only be used by athletes who are gifted enough to have high performance equip given to them for free.If I were to drive a formula one car down the streets of DC then I would expect the cost of the damage to be consistant with the overall cost of the vehicle.I'm sorry to see this happen to him and would not ridicule him for being mad.High performance parts do not always mean high durability.Good luck with solving this problem.
Highend? Exotic?? High performance??? I thought we were talking run-of-the-mill Mavic Ksyriums here? :D

[cyclesberuff]

Are we talking about TI or Thai?

[97CSI]

See if you can get an answer from the bike attorney on Velonews.com. He might be interested in your problem. If he is, you'll at least have your 15 seconds of fame. Sucks that this happened. Especially on a new bike. But, my guess is that the damage is not structural and you'll simply have to live with a bit of wet sanding on the gouges to smooth the edges and touch-up paint for that part of it. Or, spend $1300. Good luck.

[Len J]

I have got to vent!!! I think it would be appropriate to do it here on this forum and get your opinions. I just purchased a brand new legend Ti. $7500 all said and done. I picked it up two months ago. Today I was out riding and I was coasting (not pedaling) at about 10 MPH when all of a sudden, for no particular reason a rear drive side spoke decided to break on my brand new Ksyirium SL wheels. My legend is painted with the Sizzler GS and 1/4 polish. Well the drive side chain stay and the non-drive side seat stay got some pretty deep gouges in them (NOT surface scratches). I am pissed off, needless to say. Do you think Mavic should be responsible for fixing my frame as well as their crappy wheels (which if I can't trust them coasting at 10 MPH I definately will not ride them down a hill at 50 MPH). The warranty on Mavic Ksyiriums are for 2 years for those who will ask.


How does an aluminum spoke gouge titanium (as stated in another section of this post) coasting at 10 mph?

As soon as you heard it hitting, Did you stop?
Even if you didn't, I can't see this as possible. I can see that it might scratch the paint on the inside of the stays, but if that's the case, just lightly sand, touch up paint and put some clear on it, it's good to go.

In addition, if a drive side spoke broke, how did it scratch both the drive side chainstay and the non-drive side seatstay?

My opinion, based on what I know about titanium, is that the only thing scratched is the paint. Now it may look like hell but a quality touch up job should make it presentable. No way Mavic' warranty will cover the incedental damage, you can try, but don't get your hopes up. My .02!

This is one of the "costs" of low spoke count wheels...people should go in with their eyes open.

No way the titanium is gouged.

Len

[JohnS]

See if you can get an answer from the bike attorney on Velonews.com. He might be interested in your problem. If he is, you'll at least have your 15 seconds of fame. Sucks that this happened. Especially on a new bike. But, my guess is that the damage is not structural and you'll simply have to live with a bit of wet sanding on the gouges to smooth the edges and touch-up paint for that part of it. Or, spend $1300. Good luck.
It's scratches on BARE TI. There is no paint involved.

[dirtdigger88]

Are we talking about TI or Thai?

Thai :cool:

http://www.drugs.indiana.edu/graphics/photographs/thaisti1.jpg

Jason

[csb]

http://www.propstore.co.uk/images/products/321/mario-policeuni5.jpg


? tie

[Frank]

Did someone say ties????

[Needs Help]

First of all, what a warranty says and what the law says can be two very different things, and they often are because the manufacturer's lawyers attempt to fool consumers into thinking they don't have any legal recourse.

Second, if you are having too many problems with your new Serotta, then consider returning it. You paid a lot of money for your bike, and if there are problems with the paint, the wheels, and other things, then it's understandable why you are so upset. So, if you bought your bike on a credit card in your home state(or within 100 miles of your home), and you bought it less than 30 days ago*, you can take it back if you are unsatisfied with the product. Those terms are part of the federal consumer protection laws, and they are the laws under which credit card companies have to operate.

*I notice that my credit card bill no longer mentions the 30 day limitation, so maybe that is no longer applicable or it varies from state to state.

[bulliedawg]

It's scratches on BARE TI. There is no paint involved.

I would encourage Sirroada to post photos. If the damage is bad, it would explain a lot.

[cyclesberuff]

way to go dirtdigger :banana:

[bcm119]

Sorry to hear about your rotten luck. But how about this: have your lbs fix the wheel. Sell the wheelset and the frame on eBay for about $2500 total. Buy a CIII and a set of handbuilt wheels. You'll have $500 left over.

[bcm119]

Dirtdigger, are you a landscaper or a gardener?

[dirtdigger88]

Dirtdigger, are you a landscaper or a gardener?

scaper' I have to garden

Jason

[Big Dan]

Sorry to hear about your rotten luck. But how about this: have your lbs fix the wheel. Sell the wheelset and the frame on eBay for about $2500 total. Buy a CIII and a set of handbuilt wheels. You'll have $500 left over.


BC, that's the best piece of advice I've heard on this board in a long time.
Nothing wrong with making some money................. :D

:bike:

[sirroada]

Wow! I didn't expect to start a riot!! Everyone on this forum definately has an opinion. So, I will try to address you all in one post. Let me know if I missed anyone.
First of all, there are gouges in the bare titanium, not the paint. The Kysrium spoke has a rounded head that slips into the hub. When the end (the part closest to the nipple) breaks, this rounded head allows the spoke to flop from side to side a good 6 inches. This is how the non-drive side seat stay got gouged. When it flopped the other direction it hooked the drive side chain stay. I got the bike stopped right away and walked home (about a mile). The seat stay buffed out fine but the chain stay did not. For the life of me I cannot understand how that Maxtal (not aluminum) spoke damaged the stay, but it did. I do agree, it is unusual. But I had just gone over the bike before the ride and the stay was not damaged prior to. And I only rode it a mile before the spoke broke and I did not hit anything in the road.
Secondly, I am not upset with Serotta. I don't know how that impression came across. I love my bike and the way it rides. But I also take pride in the way it looks. There is nothing wrong with that. Someone stated I have had a ton of problems with my bike, insinuating that I have been complaining since I bought it. I have had some paint issues that I have decided to live with (a sizzler GS paint job with fuzzy paint lines on the downtube..ie paint bled under the tape so the line is not sharp, also a hair under the clear coat that got painted over)...no problem, I've decided to live with it. Also the LBS installed a carbon fiber seat post and chewed it up installing it. I have also decided to live with this. I do feel Serotta could have done a better job painting a $4000 frame but I decided it wasn't worth the time of being without my bike by sending it back to be repainted...besides I love to ride the thing and the blemishes are minor. So whoever posted indicating that I have been upset since I bought the bike...read all the posts, you will see that I am a reasonable person who expects the quality of a paint job to reflect what the company says their paint jobs will be. Fuzzy lines and painted over hairs are an example of a "slip-up" in quality control.
Also, someone stated that I wanted the LBS and/or Serotta to pay for the damage. Again...read all the posts. I don't expect the bike shop or Serotta to pay for anything, the problem is with the Mavic wheel. I have only indicated that MAVIC is responsible. There is nothing in Mavic's warranty that indicates they are NOT responsible for damage caused by a defective part. I have read the warranty posted by someone on this forum and the warranty provided with the wheelset and there is nothing in there about not being responsible for damage caused by defective wheels. By accepting the fact that they will pay for a defective component they are also accepting the fact they are responsible for damage caused by that defective component...no matter what they say about incidentals.
I was quite proud of the guy with the Epson printer. I do feel you have to stand up and speak your piece. I will let everyone know what Mavic decides to do. I had the bike to the LBS and they agree that the situation sucks and it will be hard to get Mavic to repair the damage, but they agree it is Mavics responsibility to do so and are going to help me in every way possible. By the way, the LBS put a new wheel on my bike. Excellent service.
Finally, I know you are all biting at the bit to see photos but I have had issues posting pics to this forum. In fact I posted asking how to get pic's to download. For some reason I cannot shrink the size of my photos to make them downloadable to this website. Whoever spent the time sleuthing my previous posts you may feel welcome to again place my posts under you scrupulous eye and verify that I did indeed post about downloading pictures and you will notice that I have yet to download a picture of bike becuase I am unable to. You will have to take my word for it.
Oh...By the way, I have a great deal on a set of Mavic Ksyrium's...any takers?

[vaxn8r]

I know you're upset but you do have to realize that every single component on a bike can, and has, broken at one time or another. Especially the high-performance light weight race stuff. I know you're ticked at Mavic but the overwhelming evidence is that the Ksyrium is a very dependable wheelset. Yours broke a spoke. Unfortunate for sure, but no need to overreact. If you are really willing to dump them cheap let us know because I bet you sell them in a hurry.

Good luck with your wheel and your frame.

[Frank]

Free and easy to use...post pics to your heart's content...I sure do ;)

http://www.imageresizer.com/

[dave thompson]

Free and easy to use...post pics to your heart's content...I sure do ;)

http://www.imageresizer.com/
I should collect referral fees.

[Frank]

I will wire you some money... :)

[Tom]

K spokes can be pretty tough because the debris I dragged through my back wheel was a length of that steel banding they use to strap crates together. The spokes had no issue with it, they happily picked it up and spun it through... clang clang clang Crap! I should have had my eyes open.

[cyclesberuff]

wow hair underneath the clear coat thats unacceptable! I do faux finishes for a living and I train my crew as I have been trained to pull brush hair out of the finish before it sets in.as for the fuzzy line you could go to a hobby shop and find a contrasting, thin line stripe tape to wrap around the panel where the two colors meet. good luck

[97CSI]

I have had some paint issues that I have decided to live with (a sizzler GS paint job with fuzzy paint lines on the downtube..ie paint bled under the tape so the line is not sharp, also a hair under the clear coat that got painted over)...no problem, I've decided to live with it. Also the LBS installed a carbon fiber seat post and chewed it up installing it. I have also decided to live with this.You are a better man than I, McDuff (to quote an old guy from England). The frame would have gone back to Serotta for a repaint and I would have required a new seatpost.

[Doc Austin]

First of all, there are gouges in the bare titanium, not the paint.

It's hard to say without seeing the bike, and I personally couldn't tell anyway, but it the gouges are deep enough, you might just be looking at that stay failing down the road. Now, there's a nasty lawsuit and something the smart people at Mavic will think twice about.

Secondly, I am not upset with Serotta.

How could anyone be considering it wasn't their product that failed?

I have also decided to live with this.

Maybe I am too persnickity about my bike staying nice, but what you pay for a Serotta has to fall into the category of "investment." Oh, sure, the investment is in me, but it's still a lot of money to spend on something and not maintain it to a high standard.

Personally, I would be seething, but I guarantee my shop wiould have done something about it by now. I had a friend order a Serotta, and there was some reason he wasn't happy, so the shop sent it back at no charge and gave him one to ride, a nicer one than he bought, until his got back. I know my dealer would have taken care of it right away.


I do feel Serotta could have done a better job painting a $4000 frame but I decided it wasn't worth the time of being without my bike by sending it back to be repainted...besides I love to ride the thing and the blemishes are minor.

I'm rather surprised to hear of a Serotta paint job that wasn't perfect. My CSI was perfect when I got it, and it was perfect after it was repainted. The TI is still perfect, even after 5000 miles of rather hard riding and one rather silly fall. From what I've seen, their paint is as good as anyone's, but sometimes a booger gets out.

, you will see that I am a reasonable person who expects the quality of a paint job to reflect what the company says their paint jobs will be.

I don't think that's an unreasonable attitude, but if I may be so bold as to ask..........why did you accept it that way? I'm sure serotta wouldn't have made you take it. I'm sure if you had sent it right back they would probably have fixed it, and maybe given you something to ride until it got back. You know, I can't speak for them, but I'll bet they would fix it now, but the chainstay ain't their problem.

I'm not going to stick my nose in this to the point that I tell Serotta what to do because I'm extremely satisfied in my dealings with them and their product isn't what fell apart. It might not be a bad idea to just drop Ben a note. They don't come any cooler than that guy.

I have only indicated that MAVIC is responsible.

Again, a reasonable attitude. What's a set of those things cost anyway? And they blew up at 10mph?

In fact I posted asking how to get pic's to download. For some reason I cannot shrink the size of my photos to make them downloadable to this website.

If you want to email them to me I'll throw them in photoshop and resize them. I'm not master, but I can probably handle it.

Oh...By the way, I have a great deal on a set of Mavic Ksyrium's...any takers?

Do they come with the deed to any swampland?

[Needs Help]

It sounds to me like your Serotta dealer is not up to par. They damaged your seatpost when they installed it, and whose to say they didn't damage your wheels when they were building up your bike? Did they even tell you about the seat post damage before you inspected the bike? They should have--it's dishonest to pass off their mistakes to a customer and hope the customer doesn't notice. In addition, your dealer should have inspected the frame when it came from Serotta, and they should have alerted you to the paint problems before you even saw the frame. A good Serotta dealer would have gotten in touch with Serotta and pre-arranged to have your frame repainted in the off season at your convenience, and then told you about that arrangement up front before you inspected the frame. You paid a lot of money for your frame, and it sounds like you are not getting the product you paid for.

Based on Serotta's reputation for exemplary customer service, I would be surprised if you came out of this experience without your frame being repainted to your satisfaction.

Good luck.

[Doc Austin]

Based on Serotta's reputation for exemplary customer service, I would be surprised if you came out of this experience without your frame being repainted to your satisfaction.

Good luck.

I was trying not to put them on the spot, but since you did :) I don't think Serotta will stand by and let this guy get hosed.

[sirroada]

Here's the deal so far. Mavic is stepping up to the plate. They want me to send my frame to them. After Mavic inspects it they are going to send it to Serotta for repair. I talked to James at Serotta and he says one way or the other they are going to fix my bike. Serotta rocks. I will tell everyone I know to invest in a Serotta because they stand behind their product. Also, if Mavic comes through on their end of the responsibility I will tout their products as well. I support companies that support me. I'll keep everyone posted.

[jerk]

hmm.....

[cyclesberuff]

Good for you Sirroada! now I wish the Nats would step up to the plate

[jerk]

way to go dirtdigger :banana:


this guy is the jerk's new favorite forum member. he's never posted here before but he goes out of his way to complement dirt's fine picture of the danky stanky. wow, the jerk is not being sarcastic at all whe he states that he loves the fact that there are stoners out there that read the serotta forum in between bong hits but don't post untill they have something really important to say. how long have you been lurking here? what does 93legendti sound like with a head full of sinsemilla? is dbrk really that deep? is the jerk a buzz-kill? did that picture of sandy really **** with your mind? bravo, his man, the jerk is rolling the purely porverbial fatty to you and your head.

peace out kind brothers,
jerk

[Needs Help]

Here's the deal so far. Mavic is stepping up to the plate. They want me to send my frame to them. After Mavic inspects it they are going to send it to Serotta for repair. I talked to James at Serotta and he says one way or the other they are going to fix my bike.
Wow. Serotta is setting new customer service standards every year. Kudos to them.

[cyclesberuff]

jerk when you stop referring to yourself in the 3rd person I'll trade replies with you,but now it's time for, well....it's all good

[Serpico]

Here's the deal so far. Mavic is stepping up to the plate. They want me to send my frame to them. After Mavic inspects it they are going to send it to Serotta for repair. I talked to James at Serotta and he says one way or the other they are going to fix my bike. Serotta rocks. I will tell everyone I know to invest in a Serotta because they stand behind their product. Also, if Mavic comes through on their end of the responsibility I will tout their products as well. I support companies that support me. I'll keep everyone posted.

http://img3.buzznet.com/assets/users8/ziggurat/default/msg-1119591173-2.jpg

[Doc Austin]

Here's the deal so far. Mavic is stepping up to the plate.

Yo, Mavic! :beer:


I talked to James at Serotta and he says one way or the other they are going to fix my bike.

Serotta is going to fix it one way or the other, even though the damaged chainstay isn't their responsibility. I can't speak for them, but I bet you that they will strip and repaint the entire frame, and maybe even the fork. That will take care of the blemishes you were not happy about. Since Ben probably reads the forum, I'll bet the paint guys will be on extra high alert when your frame comes in. It's probably going to be so nice that you'll be afraid to ride it.

Serotta rocks.

You got that right.

I will tell everyone I know to invest in a Serotta because they stand behind their product.

I'de like to tell everyone what Serotta did for me, but I'm not sure they want the details broadcasted over the internet. If they want a testimonial, I'll start a new thead and spill the story.

The details I can tell you about are that they 100% warrantied a situation that I thought was at least partially my fault (if not more) and they restored my ragged out, beat and scuffed up, 30,000 old CSI to showpiece quality. I was expecting the bill to run about $500 because they replaced a lug and a tube...........and repainted the entire frame and fork. When I got it back, the bill was $0, including shipping, disassemble and rebuild. Now, if that wasn't a nice surprise.............

I was so pleased that I came back the next day and ordered a Legend TI.

Also, if Mavic comes through on their end of the responsibility I will tout their products as well.

My observation is that the cycling industry is very similar to the dive industry. Customer service is extraordinary. I suppose it has to be that way because these are recreational dollars that are being spent and people can take them anywhere they want, so you had better treat folks right. I ran a scuba shop for a summer and was a dive guide for years, and I've seen countless times that companies have gone the extra mile for people. Along with how I was supported, I've seen enough stories on this forum about how well Serotta backs their product that I'de have to say they are extraordinary to an extreme I've never seen before.

[gdw]

That's great. Serotta really backs their product. Did you ever figure out how to post pictures? It would be interesting to see the damage to the chainstay you described.