are all carbon wheels stiff?

[Climb01742]

i had a pair of zipp carbon wheels, and while they were amazingly light, they were (for me) way too stiff. is this true of all carbon wheels? are there carbon wheels out there that, while light, ride closer to shallow profile alu rims? thanks!

[Fixed]

no and yes.wait for the jerk to reply he is the expert on carbon wheels.Cheers

[e-RICHIE]

have you tried cane creeks? we race cross on
them and get more tail than sinatra. i realize
that you're not in that market, but the wheels
are still really good.
hey - thanks for reading.
e-RICHIE©™®

[Dr. Doofus]

get the zipps or the adas

you deserve 'em

(saw two guys go down last weekend on deep rim carbon wheels in the wet...and a few guys stay up on them...)

[Doc Hollywood]

The Spinergy Rev-X's were notorously flexible in the lateral direction. Spinergy knew this and made these little plastic stiffeners that you could glue in between each spoke pair to improve stiffness.

They also made an extra stiff model (more carbon ply), but it still was flexible for big guys.

I admit it, I had a pair and quickly sold them. I called them "Spongys". There sure were comfy though going straight.

Doc

[jerk]

it's not about the material. it's about what you do with the material.

jerk

[Matt Barkley]

yeah, what the jerk said. Are we talking about wheels now? :beer: - Matt

[zeroking17]

it's not about the material. it's about what you do with the material.

jerk


YES. YES. YES.

[ergott]

I've built up some 202 rims and they are not as stiff as the others from Zipp. You could get them or build up a set to your favorite hubs for an awesome wheelset that is a nice ride as well.

May I suggest:
32 light gauge double butted spokes (Revolution, CX-Ray, Aerolite etc.) cross three.

You could use a thicker gauge spoke on the drive side of the rear wheel for better lateral rigidity, but I've done them with the same spokes on both sides for a more plush ride as long as you don't weigh too much.

This wheelset will be lighter than most wheels out there (save for ADAs) and the ride is gorgeous. I have had very good feedback on these wheels.


Eric

[e-RICHIE]

it's not about the material. it's about what you do with the material.

jerk



very "saville row", jerk-issimo.
bananas. okay?!

hey. thanks for reading.
e-RICHIE©™®

[jerk]

very "saville row", jerk-issimo.
bananas. okay?!

hey. thanks for reading.
e-RICHIE©™®

hey,

the jerk goes to hong kong for all his suits; where it isn't about anything,

they told the jerk there were things the jerk can't afford:

to spend one day in uncomfortable suit;
to buy garment simply for label;
to be passed from one department sales person to other;
to confuse style with fashion;
to own a closet full of forgettable clothes;
to confuse value with price;
to be "helped" by a salesperson on commission;
to sacrifice style, fit, or fabric tailoring;
to be less than well dressed


jerk

[e-RICHIE]

hey,

the jerk goes to hong kong for all his suits; where it isn't about anything,

they told the jerk there were things the jerk can't afford:

to spend one day in uncomfortable suit;
to buy garment simply for label;
to be passed from one department sales person to other;
to confuse style with fashion;
to own a closet full of forgettable clothes;
to confuse value with price;
to be "helped" by a salesperson on commission;
to sacrifice style, fit, or fabric tailoring;
to be less than well dressed


jerk


please. no side vented sportscoats, okay.
and no short sleeve dress shirts (an oxymoron
if there ever was one). and the stripes on your
ties MUST descend "from the heart".

i want to keep our beautiful virtual relationship.
e-RICHIE©™®

[jerk]

please. no side vented sportscoats, okay.
and no short sleeve dress shirts (an oxymoron
if there ever was one). and the stripes on your
ties MUST descend "from the heart".

i want to keep our beautiful virtual relationship.
e-RICHIE©™®


the jerk is a man of substance; a gentleman and a scholar. if the jerk is feeling casual, he will non-chalantly roll up the sleeves of his hermes casual shirt a few inches. it helps accent the leather banded patek....

jerk

[Fixed]

Sounds like our jerk is the classic gentleman. :cool: style is timeless fashion is fleeting .e-RICHIE frames= style ,compact frames =fashion I think I got it.Thanks Guys I am learning stuff from you guys all the time.

[e-RICHIE]

...it helps accent the leather banded patek....
jerk


okay. leather banded.
we can hang.
e-RICHIE©™®

[lnomalley]

i think i've made 5 different posts about this....
zipps tend to be very stiff and chatter in turns under pressure. you either have to learn how to deal with them (you can watch any crit with hard conering and see it for yourself) or you can just use them on road courses only.

my feeling is that the new all carbon cosmic carbones that are coming will not have this issue (but i am just specualting). as i've said many times, i love going straight on my zipps but turning on the limit.... is a fright.

i've raced the same course back to back on zipps and cosmics.. the rear wheel of the zipp chattered on the edge of control in every hard turn and the cosmics never gave an inch (tire pressure was not the issue and i am not wrong).

i have zipps on my training bike.. the one i take on long slow rides up the coast and in the mountains (we are talking sew ups, right?)... if i were racing the tdf i'd love the zipps.. but on a technical circuit or a crit i think you are on crack using them.

IMHO.

:P

[coylifut]

i think i've made 5 different posts about this....
zipps tend to be very stiff and chatter in turns under pressure. you either have to learn how to deal with them (you can watch any crit with hard conering and see it for yourself) or you can just use them on road courses only.

my feeling is that the new all carbon cosmic carbones that are coming will not have this issue (but i am just specualting). as i've said many times, i love going straight on my zipps but turning on the limit.... is a fright.

i've raced the same course back to back on zipps and cosmics.. the rear wheel of the zipp chattered on the edge of control in every hard turn and the cosmics never gave an inch (tire pressure was not the issue and i am not wrong).

i have zipps on my training bike.. the one i take on long slow rides up the coast and in the mountains (we are talking sew ups, right?)... if i were racing the tdf i'd love the zipps.. but on a technical circuit or a crit i think you are on crack using them.

IMHO.

:P

Do I understand correctly that you ride Zips and sew-ups for your every day training set up?

[vaxn8r]

i had a pair of zipp carbon wheels, and while they were amazingly light, they were (for me) way too stiff. is this true of all carbon wheels? are there carbon wheels out there that, while light, ride closer to shallow profile alu rims? thanks!
My Reynolds Stratus are "all day" comfortable. Mine are not super light at about 1,300g a set but the new ones are about 80g lighter I think.

[lnomalley]

Do I understand correctly that you ride Zips and sew-ups for your every day training set up?


yup (at least lately).

[Climb01742]

jerk, aside from ADAs (which are out of my price range, unless of course i'm on your christmas list ;) ) are there carbon wheels you'd recommend?

richie, is there a specific cane creek model you're referring to?

inomalley, i'd use these wheels for climbing. am i correct that the upcoming carbones would still be deep section and still (relatively speaking) heavy?

ergott, you bring up an interesting point. does the stiffness of a carbon rim come primarily from the rim (which seems to be how some manufacturers tell the story) or can you, as with alu rims, tweak the stiffness by spoke selection?

has anyone had any experience with nimble fly carbon wheels?

thanks to all for their input!

[1centaur]

Just saw in another forum that Bontrager has some 2006 carbon clinchers coming at a weight under 1400 grams - those should also be in the mix of possibilities.

[bostondrunk]

jerk, aside from ADAs (which are out of my price range, unless of course i'm on your christmas list ;) ) are there carbon wheels you'd recommend?



I think he's made it clear in the past that his choice was the Mavic Carbones, no?
As for Zipps, I've had a set of 404 tubies for 4 years now. I've used them in a few 1km course crits with fairly tight corners, and a decent amount of road races, and I've never experienced the 'chatter' from them, and they have never gone out of true.

[dbrk]

hey,

the jerk goes to hong kong for all his suits; where it isn't about anything,

they told the jerk there were things the jerk can't afford:

to spend one day in uncomfortable suit;
to buy garment simply for label;
to be passed from one department sales person to other;
to confuse style with fashion;
to own a closet full of forgettable clothes;
to confuse value with price;
to be "helped" by a salesperson on commission;
to sacrifice style, fit, or fabric tailoring;
to be less than well dressed


jerk

I was walking down Mahabandoola Street in Rangoon once (you couldn't start a cheesy detective novel like that...) when I came upon an interesting tailor's shop. This was in 1986, I think, and Burma had been so isolated that the taxis were British black sedans from the 1940s and we were able to hitch a ride up-country in the back of a truck with hi-fi equipment (for a wedding feast in Mandalay) that would fetch thousands today on eBay for being antique. Anyway, not far from The Strand---talk about style, this place was like Raffles must have been in 1935 or The Savoy in Mousourrie in 1900---this tailor's shop advertised: "Tip-Top Tailors: Sartorial Theosophists, Suitings for All Occassions." I have a photo of it because, in those days, I too was a sartorial theosophiss. Now I'm a mismatched wool-clad cycling anarchist who looks alternatively either homeless or anachronistically insouciant. My bikes are accused more kindly of being "retro" though I am rarely addressed directly when such comments are made, likely for the same reasons most people don't talk to homeless guys muttering to themselves.

I have given up on high-tension, low-spoke count wheels because (1) you can build really light wheels without going to these extremes and (2) because I have now twice popped a spoke on one (Campag Electron, Mavic Something) and had a long walk home (no cell phone for me!! never!!!). Unlike 'one mad dude' over there on that other thread I didn't damage a bike or if I did, I didn't notice because it was some modern wunderzoot and I can't treat those with any more than they're due. I sold my old Mavic Carbones but found them incredibly stiff and uncomfortable, though in my day I found them theosophically sartorial enough. I find the prices for many of these lightweight wheelsets beyond my means or, more likely, my interests. Still, I bet some are REALLY fun and nice to ride but the cost, the hassle of what happens when you break one (especially out here in Middle of Nowhere, NY), and my lack of rationale (like I ever need any of that about bikes...)...well. As cycling experiences go, I'd still like to try a few of these pre-builts but no longer at my expense or risk. I always advise a traditional wheel built in modern ways. Rims, spokes, and nipples have actually gotten better over the years though hubs stopped getting better when Maxi-car stopped making them.

dbrk

[Too Tall]

Less spokes more comfort...less material in the rim....yep more comfort...what Senor' said. It's what you do with the materials.

InnoMally archived posts are searchable on this forum. You might read them as he gives insightful comments esp. good as his experience are all during hard racing where performance matters.

I use a Nimble Fly front wheel matched with Nimble Crosswind (3 spoke carbon) rear for crits. Honestly, I was so in love with this setup that I wrecklessly rode them for training for 1/2 season and than dedicated them to race only. If I had spare $$'s and no shame I'd buy a rear fly and use the matched set until the cows come home. Yeah, the wheels are very nice riding....but that's the beauty of a custom laced carbon rimmed wheelset....you can ask Nimble to use light, medium OR heavy spokes and you can get them in darn near ANY spoke count. Tunable ride? You betcha. More tail than Lil' Abner my friend!!!

[e-RICHIE]

...More tail than Lil' Abner my friend!!!


hey - no poaching my material!

btw, we race on the cane creek
aros 46 and superlight wheels.

[chrisroph]

I'll throw in my .02 here. I've got some 303's and find them excellent wheels even though they were a bit fussy when I first got them. I had to spend some time retensioning them and the lock ring needs to be torqued just so. I've ridden them in tt's, road races and crits. In fact, I won a state crit chmpionship on them a couple seasons ago. Do they chatter? No and yes. No if I pump the tires (conti comp 23's) up to a reasonable 115lbs pressure and ride relaxed; yes if I overinflate them (125+), ride with a death grip on the bars, ride bad lines, get my weight unbalanced on the bike.

Rider, bike, wheels, tires, technique, etc. are all part of a system. One piece of the system may work great for one rider and awful for another. Thus, its overly simplistic to say all carbon wheels are stiff, all aluminum frames are harsh, all steel bikes are heavy, ADAs have a design flaw in the freehub mechanism, colnagos have gaudy paint jobs, skinny guys can't sprint, etc.

For me, there is nothing wrong with the 303s. I got a great deal on my pair and they have worked great and provided a positive cost/benefit.

[Too Tall]

Just statin' the facts Jack.
OK, more tail than Anglefood Mcspade?
You left a trail of crumbs, I followed...where's the crime ;)

[e-RICHIE]

Just statin' the facts Jack.
OK, more tail than Anglefood Mcspade?
You left a trail of crumbs, I followed...where's the crime ;)

4-given!

[zap]

I build my own wheels using Zipp rims. Zipp tubies are very comfortable. Clinchers less so.

When I spoke with Nimble some 3 odd years ago, they (Dave?) did mention that their Fly rims where the strongest tested (lateral deflection), then the Z303 rim.

Spoke count doesn't do much for rider comfort since most carbon rims are pretty darn stiff vertically. Based on my limited experience, spoke counts/type are important in keeping the hub and rim in greater matrimonial harmony when sprinting like a you've got a pack of starved wolves chasing you.

eRichie, doesn't Cane Creek use Zipp rims?

Anyhow, the one blog review, deleted shortly after I posted a link here ;) , preferred Zipp 303 wheels over ADA's.

[lnomalley]

so it looks to me like this.. that its a personal subjective decision. the truth is you are gonna have to do some time on a number of wheels to see for yourself. and yes, the way the wheel is built matters too, as does tire pressure.

i will say this.. if you live in socal.. and can go to manhattan beach (the crit ina few weeks).. go watch the pro's or even the 3's race.... watch it from the 180 degree last corner... and i promise you that you will see some serious carbon wheel skipping... (and crashing) a lot of guys that aren't on carbon wheels will like be on ksyriums for that course and i'm willing to bet you wont see any of those skipping.


now chattering isn't a big deal.. you get used to it... but for me it becomes a distraction...

i find in racing sometimes you are in situations where you really have to jam through a corner on the edge of your limit...i and that is the situation when i dont want chattering to be a possiblity... i just want to think about going faster and finding a good line.

now, given all that i still suck so.. there you go.

[ada@prorider.or]

the answer is no

to define stiffnes you most have 3d figures
not only one way
to compare all figures then you can determine what the best stiffnes to you

this is not about carbon but all materials


cees :bike: :bike:

[csb]

hey - no poaching my material!

more tail than flipper?

[spiderlake]

Sartorial Theosophists! Classic! Without question, this is the best response to a post I've read since joining!

I was walking down Mahabandoola Street in Rangoon once (you couldn't start a cheesy detective novel like that...) when I came upon an interesting tailor's shop. This was in 1986, I think, and Burma had been so isolated that the taxis were British black sedans from the 1940s and we were able to hitch a ride up-country in the back of a truck with hi-fi equipment (for a wedding feast in Mandalay) that would fetch thousands today on eBay for being antique. Anyway, not far from The Strand---talk about style, this place was like Raffles must have been in 1935 or The Savoy in Mousourrie in 1900---this tailor's shop advertised: "Tip-Top Tailors: Sartorial Theosophists, Suitings for All Occassions." I have a photo of it because, in those days, I too was a sartorial theosophiss. Now I'm a mismatched wool-clad cycling anarchist who looks alternatively either homeless or anachronistically insouciant. My bikes are accused more kindly of being "retro" though I am rarely addressed directly when such comments are made, likely for the same reasons most people don't talk to homeless guys muttering to themselves.

I have given up on high-tension, low-spoke count wheels because (1) you can build really light wheels without going to these extremes and (2) because I have now twice popped a spoke on one (Campag Electron, Mavic Something) and had a long walk home (no cell phone for me!! never!!!). Unlike 'one mad dude' over there on that other thread I didn't damage a bike or if I did, I didn't notice because it was some modern wunderzoot and I can't treat those with any more than they're due. I sold my old Mavic Carbones but found them incredibly stiff and uncomfortable, though in my day I found them theosophically sartorial enough. I find the prices for many of these lightweight wheelsets beyond my means or, more likely, my interests. Still, I bet some are REALLY fun and nice to ride but the cost, the hassle of what happens when you break one (especially out here in Middle of Nowhere, NY), and my lack of rationale (like I ever need any of that about bikes...)...well. As cycling experiences go, I'd still like to try a few of these pre-builts but no longer at my expense or risk. I always advise a traditional wheel built in modern ways. Rims, spokes, and nipples have actually gotten better over the years though hubs stopped getting better when Maxi-car stopped making them.

dbrk

[Too Tall]

He cobbed that line from a Jay Peterman catalogue ;)

Cees, if an all carbon semi-production rim such as yours is used than it will remain a constant in the build. Spokeage, lace pattern remain as the only variable(s) for tuning the basic wheel construction....practically speaking.

[spiderlake]

I miss Seinfeld.....

He cobbed that line from a Jay Peterman catalogue ;)

Cees, if an all carbon semi-production rim such as yours is used than it will remain a constant in the build. Spokeage, lace pattern remain as the only variable(s) for tuning the basic wheel construction....practically speaking.

[ada@prorider.or]

He cobbed that line from a Jay Peterman catalogue ;)

Cees, if an all carbon semi-production rim such as yours is used than it will remain a constant in the build. Spokeage, lace pattern remain as the only variable(s) for tuning the basic wheel construction....practically speaking.

well meaby i misuderstand you
but you can build the rim with the same carbon in may differant ways this determen of course the stiffnes and it s behavoir by lay up it different can cahne of resin system and cure cycle

well you can also when you lace wheel with normal spoke change the thikness of spoke and it s material

[e-RICHIE]

He cobbed that line...



cobbing runs rampant today!
e-RICHIE©™®

[dbrk]

He cobbed that line from a Jay Peterman catalogue ;)
.

Not to put too fine a point on it but it was J.Peterman who cobbed that line from me, but that is another story. Tip-Top the Sartorial Theosophist of Rangoon is a real enough place and I have the photo...errr...somewheres...to prove it.

As for gratutious bike content and carbon wheels, I am sure there have to be very, very cool ways to make such wheels. Cees and the ADA are tip-top, all theosophy aside. But I think we are on the edge of a wheel revolution (oooo...sorry for that) in terms of materials, weight, etc. and it will be quite a long time before such beautiful things become affordable. I have rare bikes I'm willing to ride in all weathers but some thing about a 2K+ wheelset makes me very nervous.

dbrk

[ada@prorider.or]

Not to put too fine a point on it but it was J.Peterman who cobbed that line from me, but that is another story. Tip-Top the Sartorial Theosophist of Rangoon is a real enough place and I have the photo...errr...somewheres...to prove it.

As for gratutious bike content and carbon wheels, I am sure there have to be very, very cool ways to make such wheels. Cees and the ADA are tip-top, all theosophy aside. But I think we are on the edge of a wheel revolution (oooo...sorry for that) in terms of materials, weight, etc. and it will be quite a long time before such beautiful things become affordable. I have rare bikes I'm willing to ride in all weathers but some thing about a 2K+ wheelset makes me very nervous.

dbrk


those wheels are meant to race
well depite there are people withenough money to buy evrything for there free time
the wheels are ment to win races with
you also not gone drive a formula 1 car execpt de rich
who can affoord them
but for shumacher its a work tool
funny alain prost you know the formula one rider wanted wheels and did not have time to build them have to let him down as you can see you cannot buy evrything with money

[lnomalley]

cees,

what forces are at work that make a rear wheel chatter in a hard fast turn? is there a laymen's explaination why i can feel connected to the ground on one set of wheels and like i am skittering across the road on another? is it as simple as verticle stiffness vs. torsional stiffness mixed in a little with chain stay stiffness?

are most mass market carbon wheels overbuilt?


dont feel obligated to answer.. i was just wondering. it just seems to me that this is something mavic does well but that other big companies have worked out (in terms of factory wheels).

[ada@prorider.or]

cees,

what forces are at work that make a rear wheel chatter in a hard fast turn? is there a laymen's explaination why i can feel connected to the ground on one set of wheels and like i am skittering across the road on another? is it as simple as verticle stiffness vs. torsional stiffness mixed in a little with chain stay stiffness?

are most mass market carbon wheels overbuilt?


dont feel obligated to answer.. i was just wondering. it just seems to me that this is something mavic does well but that other big companies have worked out (in terms of factory wheels).

i want to answer your mail but i do not understand your question its my lack of english to understand you correctly
what mean wheel chatter and skittering i do not understand

[lnomalley]

how do i explain.... chattering and skittering are sort of made up words to describe the rear wheel breaking loose from traction in a turn. i think by chattering what i am trying to describe is the rear wheel bouncing laterally across the pavement as opposed to carving through the radius of the turn. like your teeth do when you are shivering from the cold. i am talking about an unpredictable loss of contact of the rear wheel due to the lateral forces of the turn. does that help?

anyone have a better way to put it for me?

[ada@prorider.or]

how do i explain.... chattering and skittering are sort of made up words to describe the rear wheel breaking loose from traction in a turn. i think by chattering what i am trying to describe is the rear wheel bouncing laterally across the pavement as opposed to carving through the radius of the turn. like your teeth do when you are shivering from the cold. i am talking about an unpredictable loss of contact of the rear wheel due to the lateral forces of the turn. does that help?

anyone have a better way to put it for me?

ok i think know what you mean i would call it driffting
this is bending of spoke and its lace patern so flex in the wheel and rim

i suggest you try our wheel and i think i can bet you do not have that feeling

i think you have a feeling of that your able of driving 90 mph of a mountain
this has to do with the gyrocopic effect and that most wheels do not have enough stiffness in spoke and its attachment
do you understand?

[hybridbellbaske]

OT

No gratuitous bike content- but dbrk and the jerk might be interested to know that the dinner suit I still wear was made for me by a tailor in Kashmir who paddled a little canoe around Dal Lake in Srinagar hawking his services to those of us staying in the houseboat hotels on the lake.

Now, he was'nt a great tailor and, well, really the suit is pretty awful, but who could resist buying something from a tailor called "Savile Roy"? The "Savile Roy-Poloview Srinagar" label is coveted, at least in my house.

[Tmogul]

ADA,

Are you saying that stiffness is the key to keep a wheel from drifting or bouncing around a corner? I always thought that the really stiff wheels drift/bounce more (rear disc on TT bikes). Another way to put it would be that softer wheels soak up the little bumps in the corner allowing for better friction. So if one wants the best race wheels then is the goal to get all the stiffness numbers as high as possible (lateral, torsional, etc)? Sorry if I've simplified the situation too much. Anyways this is very interesting and I have no doubt that your wheels are great. :)

[ergott]

Spoke gauge will make a difference. There are two popular double butted spokes out there, 2.0/1.8/2.0mm and 2.0/1.5/2.0mm. DT calles the first their Competition and the latter their Revolition. When at tension, the lighter guage spoke are closer to their elastic limit and have noticably more spring to them.

The Zipp 202 rim is not as stiff as the others (404/303/808). By pairing up the 202 rim with light gauge spokes you have a very nice riding wheel. It is similar to the ride of my set of Chorus/Revolution/Reflex wheels built 3 cross with 32 spokes. That is my favorite set of wheels to ride on and I have turned others on to them as well. One of my buddies has dozens of sets of wheels and he swears by that combo.

The last 202 set I built was with White ind. hubs and 32 Revolutions cross three. He loves them. I have also built them up with CX-Rays and Aerolites (bladed but the same gauge as Revolutions) with King hubs in 28 counts for race day wheels (climbing) and they hold up as well. They all like the Zipp rims, but not the hubs which is the main reason for going custom.

Eric

[lnomalley]

ok i think know what you mean i would call it driffting

do you understand?



i think i do.
thanks.

[ada@prorider.or]

ADA,

Are you saying that stiffness is the key to keep a wheel from drifting or bouncing around a corner? I always thought that the really stiff wheels drift/bounce more (rear disc on TT bikes). Another way to put it would be that softer wheels soak up the little bumps in the corner allowing for better friction. So if one wants the best race wheels then is the goal to get all the stiffness numbers as high as possible (lateral, torsional, etc)? Sorry if I've simplified the situation too much. Anyways this is very interesting and I have no doubt that your wheels are great. :)

no thats not what i am saying
becuase with a really all stiffnesstake a disc wheel =you do not have that comfort
its a combination ! and tryre to be used and presssure
for our wheels 23 mm and 10 bar
but take aa giro tryre you will have a good traction but louzy confort since the tryre is to heavy and to stiff
the tryre has to be the thing to comfort so let say a
conti tempo or conpition will be good
just a example
remember its not absolute's its depands of the reall feeling of a rider what to do

[Too Tall]

Thanks Cees, your english is good enough for me :cool:
You said a test set of your wheels will arrive sometime next week for me to test and review correct? Thanks :) I'm KIDDING, not really.

Cees, if you can answer this. What traditional training wheel design do you consider the best for performance and utility in both the clincher and tubular category.

An example of each might be:
Tubular - Mavic Reflex, 32 drilling, 3x , DA or Record Hub, Saipm CX Spokes
Clincher - DT Rim, 32 drilling, 3X, Hugi Hub. DT spokes 14/15

[Fixed]

Way to go Bro. great question for the Prof.now us poor guys might learn something.TooTall is the man

[ada@prorider.or]

Tubular - Mavic Reflex, 32 drilling, 3x , DA or Record Hub, Saipm CX Spokes

this one

[Fixed]

I am good to go Bro. I have this now, Cool. Thanks we are very lucky to have your advice thank you so much.Cheers

[zeroking17]

Cees, if you can answer this. What traditional training wheel design do you consider the best for performance and utility in both the clincher and tubular category.

I'm not Cees, but I have ridden with him a number of times. I don't think he'll mind if I tell you which wheels he uses on his training rides:

Rigida clincher rims, DT spokes 3x, 32 drilling, ADA hubs ( http://www.prorider.org/adahub.html ).

[ergott]

Only problem with CX spokes is that you have to slot the hubs. The only hub mfg. I have seen these days is AC which limits your choices. The CX-Ray and DT Aerolite are both bladed and do not require you to have slotted hubs.

Eric

[Too Tall]

You are right and I was too lazy to edit my post.

Whaaaat? Clinchers you say??? Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

[chrisroph]

TT-You had 303s and now have nimbles. What's the difference in ride?

[ada@prorider.or]

You are right and I was too lazy to edit my post.

Whaaaat? Clinchers you say??? Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo


yes for my training rides i have clinchers
i had ride's with tubulars 150 miles aways from home 3 flat tubulars
since that i use clincher becuase i live in a town you have to walk 40 miles withy out any house before entering our city
you can imagine that's a long walk when you are already at the end of you training
i remember talk to greg lemond tellling him that that i had to walk 40 miles

he sad i also had that several flat tryres in training in belgium he had to stop some one to bring him home
it was embarrering he sad since then he only used clincher inj his training when he is alone
when it's a group training and have a car with them then i would preffered tubulars
but tubulars are here only used in racing
cees

[chrisroph]

Cees trains on clinchers. Saab, I guess its ok to buy some nucleon clinchers.

[ada@prorider.or]

Cees trains on clinchers. Saab, I guess its ok to buy some nucleon clinchers.


well meaby its me that i do not understand it i found this remark strange

again i am a simple bike mechanic nothing more or less
despite what people say
i love riding a bike that it

:banana: :banana:

[chrisroph]

Cees--Saab is one of our members here. He really likes his campagnolo nucleon tubular wheels. He has been looking for another set. I have suggested that he might want to also consider a set of nucleon clinchers. My statement was meant to be respectful of you; I think it is beyond debate that you make some of the best wheels available. I was telling Saab that if clinchers are good enough for you, they should also be good enough for him (and for the rest of us).

[saab2000]

Well, it certainly is telling...........

I would love a set of ADA carbon wheels. Alas, they are probably somewhat better than I am.

Anyway, where I currently ride the roads are pretty clean. No flats so far this season.

But yeah, I guess the Nucleon clinchers might, just might, be up to snuff for the job...... :beer:

[ada@prorider.or]

Cees--Saab is one of our members here. He really likes his campagnolo nucleon tubular wheels. He has been looking for another set. I have suggested that he might want to also consider a set of nucleon clinchers. My statement was meant to be respectful of you; I think it is beyond debate that you make some of the best wheels available. I was telling Saab that if clinchers are good enough for you, they should also be good enough for him (and for the rest of us).
ok i understand now
well you can see what a laguage can do its easily misunderstand and what on my side my excusses for that

after all i hope we all can have a good ride wit all of the forum members
meaby paris roubaix?h :banana:

[saab2000]

Everytime I ride Paris-Roubaix I use Nucleon tubulars!

[bostondrunk]

Well, it certainly is telling...........

I would love a set of ADA carbon wheels. Alas, they are probably somewhat better than I am.

Anyway, where I currently ride the roads are pretty clean. No flats so far this season.

But yeah, I guess the Nucleon clinchers might, just might, be up to snuff for the job...... :beer:

Are you mad?!?! Get tubies!!!!!!

[FunkyPorcini]

OT

Does anybody know why Campy stopped making the Electron wheelset? I really like mine.

[Too Tall]

100% agree with what Cees said regarding appropriate times to ride clinchers fits with reality. However, it wasn't like that in the good old days when you could count on at least several friends also riding tubulars....we'd swap spares as needed and trade them back when we saw each other. There were plenty of spares to go around. For 100+ mile rides everyone was expected to carry two.

Difference between the 303's and my Nimble Crosswind rear Nimble Fly front? The 303's are too light for fast road courses...they get blown around and I feel like I have to pedal all the time to maintain momentum. Maybe it's all in my head? For criteriums I do not like them at all having similar experience as yourself...they don't stick to rough pavement as well as Nimble combo OR as well as my Zipp 404 Pave's. I've given them to Queen...she likes them fine.

[chrisroph]

Cees---A ride on part of the paris roubaix route would be great. Tubulars for that ride!

TT--Thanks for your comments. I presume the queen weighs less than you? Perhaps the 303s work better for lighter riders? I go about 164 lbs. and they ride well although I can get them to bounce around a bit if I overinflate them.

[Fixed]

anyone ever heard of wheelfine? I got some nice wheels off e-BAY that came from them.Mavic hubs and mavic rims.Cheers