OT: the Post Office

[eddief]

I like the post office. It is gonna get gutted. Some news show suggested it could be saved if the price of a stamp was 60 cents or so. Would we not spend that much per letter to keep the relative high quality of the existing service? What am I missing here?

I am pretty sure noone here will have an opinion or accurate information.

[ultraman6970]

Agree...

[SamIAm]

I like the post office. It is gonna get gutted. Some news show suggested it could be saved if the price of a stamp was 60 cents or so. Would we not spend that much per letter to keep the relative high quality of the existing service? What am I missing here?

I am pretty sure noone here will have an opinion or accurate information.
Try it, let the market decide.

[jlwdm]

Monday , Wednesday and Friday delivery to start. Important, urgent info does not come thru the mail. I go to my PO Box once per week. Works great.

Jeff

[rwsaunders]

I can live without Saturday mail.

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . Saturday mail.

I could also stomach 60 cents for stamp.Think about it . . . I can put the letter in the corner mailbox and a guy will come get it, take it all the way across the country, and deliver it to my daughter in the middle of literally nowhere in far northern California for FORTY-FIVE CENTS. Or 60 cents. It's worth 15 extra cents.

We live in an age of miracles. People are so spoiled. At least, Americans are.

BBD

[Louis]

Try it, let the market decide.

We'll see how much those living in or sending to tiny, godforsaken hamlets in the middle of nowhere are willing to pay.

[rugbysecondrow]

Can I pay extra to not have litter put in my box daily?

60 cents, 1.00...whatever, I so rarely shed anything it just isn't important to me. That is the issue, they are a defunct model, broken. Another issue, the actual USPO offices...what ****e. Long lines, bad service, 90% of what the attendant does could be automated. There should be kiosks for services, automated machines. Maybe a few staffed locations for the blue hairs.

[fjaws]

Unfortunately, it's that "litter" that allows the rest of us to mail a letter so cheaply. Take away the litter AND expect the post office to turn a profit and we'll be paying much more than the .60 cents suggested here.

[rbtmcardle]

Unfortunately, it's that "litter" that allows the rest of us to mail a letter so cheaply. Take away the litter AND expect the post office to turn a profit and we'll be paying much more than the .60 cents suggested here.


Does it? with the bulk mail rates and discounts I dont know... and I say that sincerely, hoping someone could shed some light on it...

[slowandsteady]

Get rid of Saturday mail and even go to a three or four day a week delivery schedule. Raise rates it's all good but I think we need to re-evaluate the whole system and "refurbish" it if you will. Needs some serious re-thinking and fine tuning IMHO.

[don compton]

The USPS is just another protected dinosaur. When I pay my bills on the internet , I always feel some what reassured when I get an immediate receipt. It allows me more flexibility in my cash flow. I have very few vendors that are mailed checks. To me, the only reason that the "U.S. Mail" still exists in its present form is because our weak kneed politicians will not do what has to be done. :crap:

[gavingould]

Have all the catalog and bulk mailers pay the rates regular people and small businesses pay; problem solved in two ways - either funding's no longer a problem, or junk mail goes bye-bye.

In Chicago, at least in my area, the mail service is pretty sh*t. The carriers have a hard time putting things in the correct mailboxes, slow service (Priority mail takes an additional day or two beyond their estimates) and awful service at branches.

[buck-50]

My grandma doesn't have, or want, a computer. She likes getting and sending letters. My mom sends me clipped articles, photos, etc. My daughter likes to send her drawings to my mom.

When I sell stuff in the classifieds here, I head over to the post office to ship it. Unlike UPS or FedEx, they've never lost or broken anything I've ever shipped. And, the guy behind the counter is a hoot.

The chimpanzee/sullen teen behind the counter at kinkos? not so much.

I'd miss the post office. I'd miss the postman, I'd miss the convenience.

And, tell you what. You think fedex or ups is gonna send yer christmas cards?

[choke]

I'd much rather use USPS than UPS/FedEx and they get 99% of my business. It's not only more convenient, they have a far better track record with deliveries in my experience.

We'll see how much those living in or sending to tiny, godforsaken hamlets in the middle of nowhere are willing to pay.As one of those people, I'd certainly pay more to send letters or packages. It's either that or drive 20+ miles to the nearest UPS/FedEx facility (and that's close compared to other people I know).

[bike22]

love the post office, imo it can't be beat.

there's one open 6am-midnight where i live, perfect for those insomniac trips to mail bike parts out. it used to be open 24hours a day just a few years ago.

cheap mailing rates for packages/small boxes, really easy click-n-ship mailing via your home computer; your letter carrier picks up the packages for free!

[don compton]

My grandma doesn't have, or want, a computer. She likes getting and sending letters. My mom sends me clipped articles, photos, etc. My daughter likes to send her drawings to my mom.

When I sell stuff in the classifieds here, I head over to the post office to ship it. Unlike UPS or FedEx, they've never lost or broken anything I've ever shipped. And, the guy behind the counter is a hoot.

The chimpanzee/sullen teen behind the counter at kinkos? not so much.

I'd miss the post office. I'd miss the postman, I'd miss the convenience.

And, tell you what. You think fedex or ups is gonna send yer christmas cards?
I totally appreciate your mom's feeling about the Post Office. But from a business standpoint, the USPS is totally obsolete. I have had stuff lost and there is no way of recovering the loss and the cost of the loss. I feel sorry sorry for businesses that still rely on the postal service for receiving payments. If they can figure a way to deliver mail service without the pressure of delivering the mail in one or two days, maybe they can continue.
Bottom line, we have advanced beyond "snail mail". ( also, I am 60yo). And by the way, most of our friends send their Christmas and Hannakah cards via the internet. There's not much demand for a "wheelright" these days.

[cmpilot]

I would pay more and I agree it is worth it.

I have had many experiences with mail in several European countries, from west to east, and I can tell you none of them come close to what we take for granted here. Many are downright terrible, corrupt jokes.

I have occasion to mail and receive rather valuable items as part of my business, and the US Postal Service is a perfect and secure way to do that. It is often preferable to UPS and FedEx for that purpose. It is the most secure way on Earth I know of to send something. Fact is, you can mail anything of any value in a plain envelope and trust it will get there. Try that in some countries I have experience with, and your stuff will disappear. (How do I know? Because it has happened to me.)

Over decades in business, I have mailed and received multiple trainloads of documents, contracts, important papers, etc. via ordinary first class mail...And I have never ever missed or lost a single item. The system is that good. (Oh, and these were actual, physical papers that required actual, physical signatures and such...and we still need them every day.)

Those of you who say you've had things lost: Have you tried registered, insured mail? That's like sending something under armed guard in a bank vault. I have done it, with things worth six figures, will be doing it again, and I never worry. It has worked for over 200 years and no one has done it better.

Folks, there are still some things about the USA that are better than anywhere else, and the Postal Service is one of them. It started with our country, was originally run by Ben Franklin, and it is part of our fabric of trust.

This is not just an "obsolete model" and something for "the gray hairs." Actual, physical matter has to be sent places sometimes. Gee...imagine that.

[rice rocket]

You joined the forum to BS about the post office? ;)

Welcome.

[bike22]

probably a shill.

[cmpilot]

Silly, aren't I? Sure, I work for the USPS shilling on forums. That's why they need to raise rates, to pay shills like me.

Thanks for the welcome. I'm just an old guy thinking about getting back on a bike. Found this place while drooling over Serottas.

[Louis]

Silly, aren't I? Sure, I work for the USPS shilling on forums. That's why they need to raise rates, to pay shills like me.

Thanks for the welcome. I'm just an old guy thinking about getting back on a bike. Found this place while drooling over Serottas.

Welcome to the forum and join in on the fun. :)

ATMO means "According To My Opinion"
P S A means "Public Service Announcement"

[slowgoing]

If I thought he was a shill for the USPS, I'd treat him with a little more respect. He might spend some of his free time reading handgunner magazine.

WELCOME!

[gdw]

"Bottom line, we have advanced beyond "snail mail". ( also, I am 60yo). And by the way, most of our friends send their Christmas and Hannakah cards via the internet. There's not much demand for a "wheelright" these days."



BS. "Snail mail" is alive and well outside of California. We need the Postal Service because Fedex and UPS are not ready, able, or willing to handle letter or periodical delivery.

PS - It's wheelwright not wheelright and the skilled builders of wheels are still alive and kicking in the bicycle business. :banana:

[TimmyB]

I really hope USPS stays around - I've had much better luck using them for shipping than anything else.

UPS is garbage ATMO - so many issues and destroyed packages.

The value of USPS being able to drop packages off inside my apartment building lobby is worth it in itself.

Trying to coordinate with UPS/Fedex/etc to actually get my packages is such a headache. Most of the time I have to make the 30 minute drive to the distribution center because the driver ignores my letters posted on the lobby window telling him to call me so I can open the lobby door :crap: :crap: :crap: .

In other words, USPS is rad for not just those who live in the boonies - but for those of us who live in urban regions where people get their packages stolen.

[93legendti]

Have all the catalog and bulk mailers pay the rates regular people and small businesses pay; problem solved in two ways - either funding's no longer a problem, or junk mail goes bye-bye.

In Chicago, at least in my area, the mail service is pretty sh*t. The carriers have a hard time putting things in the correct mailboxes, slow service (Priority mail takes an additional day or two beyond their estimates) and awful service at branches.
Have them pay more...pay by weight/volume...

[SamIAm]

Can I pay extra to not have litter put in my box daily?

60 cents, 1.00...whatever, I so rarely shed anything it just isn't important to me. That is the issue, they are a defunct model, broken. Another issue, the actual USPO offices...what ****e. Long lines, bad service, 90% of what the attendant does could be automated. There should be kiosks for services, automated machines. Maybe a few staffed locations for the blue hairs.

I wanted to "invent" a small trash can that could attach directly to a mailbox, so I could simply dispose of the junk right at the source.

[Fixed]

I wanted to "invent" a small trash can that could attach directly to a mailbox, so I could simply dispose of the junk right at the source.
+1
shut it down ?
my only concern would be international mail
any other other countries without mail service ?
cheers

[Dave B]

Also love the service that USPS provides. The lady post officer who delivers the mail is sweet, she isn't the most clever, but sweet.


HOWEVER, the terrible folks at the Fishers, IN branch who are pissed they have to wait on you and serve you can ruin the experience. I often times drive to a neighboring town or city to use their post office to send things out.

I understand having a bad day, truly I do, but for most of them...their bad day has gone on for several years now. Just nasty people behind the counter. Shame too.

[SamIAm]

Have them pay more...pay by weight/volume...

Bulk mailers already pay by weight and volume, but receive discounts based on saturation levels, sorting the mail by carrier route and even larger discounts for sorting it in walk sequence. They have invested much money in the equipment necessary to do this, which has been good for my company because that is the exact equipment we sell. :)

We don't like this market going forward.

But the idea that you can simply raise rates and expect to raise revenues is so governmental in its logic.

[Fixed]

hence the term going postal is added to the dictionary .
cheers

[AngryScientist]

i like usps, and think they will come through this as a leaner, more efficient entity.

i think anything you get through the mail can be planned for on a monday, wednesday, friday schedule. dump saturday.

[Kirk Pacenti]

i like usps, and think they will come through this as a leaner, more efficient entity.

i think anything you get through the mail can be planned for on a monday, wednesday, friday schedule. dump saturday.


Agreed.

I have used them almost exclusively for shipping packages for nearly 15 years. The flat rate boxes are terrific!

Unfortunately, we are making a switch to UPS out of necessity. I hope they are able to successfully reorganize and that the market speaks with it's frns in favor of keeping it around.

Cheers,
KP

[velotel]

I have had many experiences with mail in several European countries, from west to east, and I can tell you none of them come close to what we take for granted here. Many are downright terrible, corrupt jokes.

I can only say that my experience here in France the postal service is excellent. Most mail sent within France in my experience arrives the next day. Is it perfect? No, but last I looked we aren't either.

Which isn't to criticize the us postal service. Far as I'm concerned it's excellent, still my preferred way to receive stuff from the states. The question that no one seems to ever truly ask is why in the hell is it supposed to make a profit! It's a service that serves the the american, and others, people. An invaluable service. I don't understand why the american public has so bought into the idea that everything has to make a profit. Trains and the post office are two excellent examples of valuable services that will never serve the needs of the people without being subsidized.

But that's the way it has become in the us, everything based on profit. Privatize, privatize, privatize. Why not just forget the hypocrisy of elections funded by corporate interests and just flat out privatize the government and the presidency along with the post office and everything else. Then they can outsource all that too.

But sadly in my opinion the post office just like passenger trains and lots of other stuff is going to continue to get shafted by politicians.

[oldpotatoe]

I like the post office. It is gonna get gutted. Some news show suggested it could be saved if the price of a stamp was 60 cents or so. Would we not spend that much per letter to keep the relative high quality of the existing service? What am I missing here?

I am pretty sure noone here will have an opinion or accurate information.

For comparison, in the Netherlands(know a guy there).

up to 20 grams-$.61, 20 to 50 grams-$1.23...inside the Netherlands, small country. I'll bet their PO, like just about everything else, is government subsidized.

[William]

...paying for reservations on a weekly basis at the local firing range adds up....






William ;)

[SamIAm]

.

Which isn't to criticize the us postal service. Far as I'm concerned it's excellent, still my preferred way to receive stuff from the states. The question that no one seems to ever truly ask is why in the hell is it supposed to make a profit! It's a service that serves the the american, and others, people. An invaluable service.


Nobody is questioning the excellent performance of the USPS, probably considering the quantity of mail processed, far better than any other country including yours. This fact has far more to do with the sophisticated automation equipment and software than the personnel operating it.

It is also clearly not an invaluable service, at least here in the US and as such should not be subsidized. Nobody is calling for profitability, but how about break even?

And trains??? That cracks me up.

Hopefully the US has learned that you can't subsidize everything including the generous long term pensions of employees. It's always the pensions that take these things down.

[zap]

If I'm not mistaken, an over funded pension fund is part of the problem.

Agree that the USPS is excellent and provides a great service to me as an individual and as a business. I see no reason why the USPS cannot compete (packages) against FedEx and UPS.

Rates for first class mail needs to increase but the larger problem is congress.

No business can operate effectively with such a large and ineffective "board".

[Kirk Pacenti]

...paying for reservations on a weekly basis at the local firing range adds up....

William ;)

Track is dead, may as well go to the range. Where did I leave my http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7z0JKHjVziE&feature=related (Track is dead, may as well go to the range. Where did I leave my Mk19 ?

[Kirk Pacenti]

Hopefully the US has learned that you can't subsidize everything including the generous long term pensions of employees. It's always the pensions that take these things down.

This never made sense to me. Even as a teen-ager I could see this (and SS) was not sustainable...

[William]

Track is dead, may as well go to the range. Where did I leave my http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7z0JKHjVziE&feature=related (Track is dead, may as well go to the range. Where did I leave my Mk19 ?

Dead as a door nail! I'll meet you there with my AA-12.






William

[Idris Icabod]

Being originally from the UK, I can comment on the British Post Office. The service there is excellent (everything is pretty much ovenight) but then again we are only roughly the size of Florida. But the UK post office does everything: it is the best place to get foreign currency, they offer the best banking interest rates (at least for children's accounts), you can pay your TV licence there, you pick up your pension and child allowance there.

I'll state that I love getting mail, I check the mail box as soon as I get home. I write letters to elderly relatives and send pictures of my kids, my grandmother is 99 years old and I write to her weekly usually and she writes back, the letters sometimes take more than a week to get there but often I get a letter from a tiny village in northern England in a couple of days all the way to AZ.

The bike stuff I order from PBK and wiggle and the like are delivered USPS by my very friendly mail carrier, her name is Greta. Greta bought baby gifts for each of my children, we included her on our birth announcements when we sent them out and we always send her a Christmas card and leave her a gift. Our local post office is staffed by a husband and wife who are always friendly and are amazingly efficient, they serve about 3 people at the same time as credit cards are processing and the like.

I know technology moves on and mail is getting to be an obsolete product, Pottery Barn spams my e-mail 3 times a day for a lot cheaper than it takes to produce and send out a catalogue. I'm not old, not quite 40, so I'm not technology averse, but I guess after all this waffling, the thing I'm trying to say is that I like mail and I would happily pay more and accept a little slower delivery times in order to preserve the service.

[Ahneida Ride]

The USPS can[t even read the tracking #'s printed out by it's
own software ...

One has to use a third party vendor to get bar codes to
print correctly.

It always the same argument .... pay just a little more.
soon a little more and a little more and a little more
add up to a LOT more. :crap:

[rugbysecondrow]

Nobody is questioning the excellent performance of the USPS, probably considering the quantity of mail processed, far better than any other country including yours. This fact has far more to do with the sophisticated automation equipment and software than the personnel operating it.

It is also clearly not an invaluable service, at least here in the US and as such should not be subsidized. Nobody is calling for profitability, but how about break even?

And trains??? That cracks me up.

Hopefully the US has learned that you can't subsidize everything including the generous long term pensions of employees. It's always the pensions that take these things down.

I agree with this. The pension plan for Gov workers changed in 1984. It has a pension aspect to it, but it is mostly based in a 401k type of system.


Customer service is key...why are they closing at 5 or 6PM? Folks work, the evening is when they should be open...10-9PM like any retail shop. If the service is so valuable (I think it is) people will pay for it but the customer will not stand for being taken advantage of. Why should I wait 25 minutes at the post office when I can go to Fed Ex? I pay more at Fed Ex, but I also don't have the stress and hassle of waiting.

For the two above issues, I suspect the Union is why. Any reduction in work or increase in hours would be hard fought by them.

Also, why the stupidity. I had an important document shipped next day to me...paid 20 bucks for it because I needed it quickly. What did they do? Of course I work so I am not home when it arrives. They don't leave my important item, they leave a note and tell me to go to the USPS which is closed. I work the next day and the USPS closes before I get off work, so I actually have to leave work early to get my document. *** people? I have documents left all the time by fed ex, ups etc, but for the USPS I have to chase it down. $20 bucks, time lost, gas, waiting...a very expensively shipped document now.

My point is that they are NOT customer focused, which they should be. Many of the USPS employees are helpful, but if you could trim 75% of their workload (automated machines for packages, stamps, retails purchase...think Apple store Ap) then the employees could focus on service. Usage would increase.

I like the USPS, they can survive, but they have not been made to change. Their model is old, they process seem antiquated and their methods of business operations don't necesarily suit the business they serve.

[johnnymossville]

I'd be alright with 60cent stamps and 3 days a week delivery, or even 1 day a week delivery.

[zap]

I agree with this. The pension plan for Gov workers changed in 1984. It has a pension aspect to it, but it is mostly based in a 401k type of system.




For Federal government (non-postal) employees only.

State and county government employees in the USA still have old pension plans.

[BumbleBeeDave]

My point is that they are NOT customer focused, which they should be.

Mail carriers are great and friendly, and the whole concept of being able to pay 45 cents and mail al etter across he country is a miracle. But when I go into the local branch--any of several--things are moving so slowly and they don't really act like they want my business. But I guess that's a problem with customer service most places these days.

BBD

[Chance]

i like usps, and think they will come through this as a leaner, more efficient entity.

i think anything you get through the mail can be planned for on a monday, wednesday, friday schedule. dump saturday.
Agree 100 percent.

With more time now allowed to pay bills delivery every day seems wasteful. Plus think how much gasoline we could save with fewer delivery vehicle miles.

To make system more efficient they may have to stagger delivery days in order to better utilize equipment and employees, but that shouldn’t be that big a problem for us to get used to. Some streets or areas may get Monday Wednesday Friday delivery while others Tuesday Thursday Saturday.

[goonster]

I think of the USPS the same way I think of rail lines and highways: key infrastructure that should not be judged (entirely) on annual profitability.

Get rid of the USPS and you will end up subsidizing the private carriers to deliver an envelope to, say, Nucla, CO for a dollar, if you're lucky.

(see also Essential Air Service (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essential_Air_Service))

I have seen what appeared to be massive inefficienies and worker ennui at post offices, but currently my biggest gripes at my local PO relate to its customers: extended chats with the staff, insistence on parking out front on a shoulderless road, etc. Nor is the service of attitude at my local FedEx center desk much better.

[eddief]

i finally created an online account and bought a postal scale. for all the bike parts i sell, it just makes sense. weigh it and print out shipping label on home computer.

the part that drives f-ing nuts in the post office, is waiting for people to look through the "album" on their way to choosing what stamps they want to buy.

i'm anal about aesthetics, but really don't give a crap about what picture is on the stamps i put on envelopes. i know this can be important to collectors, but there ought to be a law against it in the local post office.


I think of the USPS the same way I think of rail lines and highways: key infrastructure that should not be judged (entirely) on annual profitability.

Get rid of the USPS and you will end up subsidizing the private carriers to deliver an envelope to, say, Nucla, CO for a dollar, if you're lucky.

(see also Essential Air Service (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essential_Air_Service))

I have seen what appeared to be massive inefficienies and worker ennui at post offices, but currently my biggest gripes at my local PO relate to its customers: extended chats with the staff, insistence on parking out front on a shoulderless road, etc. Nor is the service of attitude at my local FedEx center desk much better.

[bagochips3]

Being originally from the UK, I can comment on the British Post Office. The service there is excellent (everything is pretty much ovenight).

That's because the mail is delivered by owls there ;)

[witcombusa]

Antiquated system, about as useful as a newspaper....

They could cut back to 2 days a week and that would be fine. Watching a real live human walk up to each house and put mail in their door in todays world is insane. Is there a way it could be less effecient?

Dinosaur is right. Get with the program or .......well, we shall see!! :crap:

[merlinmurph]

My little town of~10,000 people in the burbs has a main post office - that's fine.

It also has s small, one-man post office about 3 miles away. Huh? Maybe it served a purpose years ago, but it serves no purpose now. Oh sure, there's a few people that live close by that use it, but they're always in the vicinity of the main PO anyways. I bet it costs at least $500K/year to run this one PO. And I bet there are a lot more like it.

My 2 cents,
Murph

[DHallerman]

When I sell stuff in the classifieds here, I head over to the post office to ship it. Unlike UPS or FedEx, they've never lost or broken anything I've ever shipped.

And the USPS gives me free Priority Mail boxes of various sizes, a discount if I buy postage online, and will pick up for free if I want.

Okay, you might say, it's just that kind of business model that gets them in trouble. But I think that package shipping is not the USPS problem.

Dave, who can readily put "shipping included" when he sells parts or bike jerseys or wheels or forks here because the USPS makes it easy to estimate pricing and keep that pricing down

[tiretrax]

I think the main thing to consider is a letter. UPS and FedEx could never deliver that mail that cheaply. We pay a lot of bills electronically, but some still must be paid manually.

Yes, junk mail is a pain. So is junk email. Just like pushing the delete button, I sort and put it directly in the recycling bin. I have a P.O. Box, too, because I've bought and sold several houses and had to lives in temporary housing, too. I like to get my important mail delivered there so I can drop by at any time. If I get a package, they can put it in a locker. My local post office was leased from a bank, and they didn't renew the lease. Now, I have to go to a regional distribution facility that's 3 miles further. It's a pain, especially because it's in a seedy neighborhood (strip joint across the street), but I still prefer the services they offer, including the free boxes mentioned above.

The counter service can be surly and slow, but the people at Kinko's are often stoners or wanna-be Occupiers. Sometimes, there are homeless folks hogging the copiers. UPS has the snarliest people I've ever met in retail, and they charge way too much. I think they're slightly better in technology and innovation, but USPS seems to be only a short distance back.

The one rate, e-stamps, forever stamps, and pick up services are some of the innovations they've adopted, and if they weren't hamstrung by unions and having to deliver all mail (why there's junk mail), they Postal Service would probably be even more nimble.

Kirk, don't give up on them. Has FedEx or UPS sponsored a bike team?

[don compton]

Interesting comments. Workers at Kinkos are stoners or occupiers. It sounds like the previous sender really enjoys the selfish economics enjoyed by USPS customers payed for by our future generations. I think that we should have a USPS, but the model needs to be economically sustainable. People are in denial thinking that these services can continue under their current model. Why do we need to have mail on Saturday? You can't cash a check on Saturday. Why should businesses be able to take advantage of the postal service when there actually much better alternatives? And is it really environmentally "OK" to have this endless amount of crap sent to our homes during the holidays when it could be sent by TV or the internet without the horrendous of paper?

[BumbleBeeDave]

I'm going to tune it out. While they do have their problems it's also clear the world has changed and they need to change with it. I'd be perfectly fine with M-W-F delivery.

BBD

[1happygirl]

I think I may have told this story before (maybe I'm forgetting and I told it at work) but...

About 10? or so years ago the Postmaster General was making the rounds on the morning talk shows talking about how the PostOffice was in the red/lost x millions and they wouldn't survive. How they needed to raise rates and were gonna raise rates on x date and lay off peeps. If I remember correctly.

Long story short, about 1o days later the headlines in the news stated Postmaster General awarded 200,000.00 raise.
Problem with all these services is not taxes/money/revenue but Management.

My 2 cents but everywhere I go the more I see the problem is with management, not services, workers or pensions.

[SamIAm]

I think I may have told this story before (maybe I'm forgetting and I told it at work) but...

About 10? or so years ago the Postmaster General was making the rounds on the morning talk shows talking about how the PostOffice was in the red/lost x millions and they wouldn't survive. How they needed to raise rates and were gonna raise rates on x date and lay off peeps. If I remember correctly.

Long story short, about 1o days later the headlines in the news stated Postmaster General awarded 200,000.00 raise.
Problem with all these services is not taxes/money/revenue but Management.

My 2 cents but everywhere I go the more I see the problem is with management, not services, workers or pensions.

Management in this case is, for all practical purposes, the government and I will certainly agree that when the government is management, you have a problem almost every time, add in unions and you have basically added alcohol to drugs.

[Fixed]

problem is government


our elected officials are minions for corporations they do not have your best interest at heart .
private company postal is what we will have soon
cheers

[Kirk Pacenti]

problem is government

^^^This.

[saab2000]

The USPS doesn't need to go away. It needs to be massively downsized to reflect a new reality. E-commerce and e-communication are not going away.

Closing thousands of small offices when there's another one just a couple miles away seems normal. And ending Saturday delivery will inconvenience almost nobody.

We need a postal service but it needs to be appropriate to the needs of the users of the system and that has greatly changed over the past 20 years.

[rugbysecondrow]

Management in this case is, for all practical purposes, the government and I will certainly agree that when the government is management, you have a problem almost every time, add in unions and you have basically added alcohol to drugs.


I agree to a certian degree, what is cumbersome is that typically the government manages things that are inherently governmental, regulatory etc...there is no private sector competitor. The USPS is in a unique situation and ought not, cannot be run like a government agency while being expected to compete with other private companies. It also makes contrasts and coparisons more available where there is not a private sector comparison for the Air Force or Social Security, HUD or many other agencies.

Why I disagree is that the purpose of management at the governemental level is different that the purpose at the private level. The government (where I work now), places such a high value on due diligence, fairness, process, equal opportunity in contracts etc. even to the detriment of best price often times. This stems back to nepotism, favoritism regarding contracts, fraud, discrimination etc. This is just one point in what could be a horrendously large conversation, but it must be understood that the purpose is different. This does not excuse poor stewardship or poor management, but just points out that managers manage differently based on the goals and purpose of the organization.

[sg8357]

Well Pogo, if the Problem is Government, I guess we know who is responsible.

You, Joe Citizen, you are the problem.

[skijoring]

Well Pogo, if the Problem is Government, I guess we know who is responsible.

You, Joe Citizen, you are the problem.


But, but but if we Galtians populate Sealand like we talked about our Sealand Mail Service will run perfectly.

[witcombusa]

Well Pogo, if the Problem is Government, I guess we know who is responsible.

You, Joe Citizen, you are the problem.


So you still think that what you want counts? :crap:

[Fixed]

So you still think that what you want counts? :crap:
+1
cheers

[Shiversolitude]

Easier solution is let the post office be run like a business and not a taxpayer subsidized union cash sink.

Case in point, my cousin worked there. One of her first days she was approached by a union boss of some sort and told to 'not work so fast, you are going to make other people look bad and cost people overtime'.

Also if mail carriers were slow, rather than fire them they would simply put someone else on their route to shoulder the load. You cant run a business that way. Period.

[Climb01742]

if only poor management and awful customer service and unmotivated workers were limited to government agencies.

any enterprise that employs human beings will have human failings.

[skijoring]

Easier solution is let the post office be run like a business and not a taxpayer subsidized union cash sink.

Case in point, my cousin worked there. One of her first days she was approached by a union boss of some sort and told to 'not work so fast, you are going to make other people look bad and cost people overtime'.

Also if mail carriers were slow, rather than fire them they would simply put someone else on their route to shoulder the load. You cant run a business that way. Period.

Holy anecdotal evidence Batman!

There is a phrase about people knowing the cost of everything,
but the value of nothing but I can't remember it right now...

[bobswire]

Bulk mailers already pay by weight and volume, but receive discounts based on saturation levels, sorting the mail by carrier route and even larger discounts for sorting it in walk sequence. They have invested much money in the equipment necessary to do this, which has been good for my company because that is the exact equipment we sell. :)

We don't like this market going forward.

But the idea that you can simply raise rates and expect to raise revenues is so governmental in its logic.

Like BIG business never thought of it.

[Kirk Pacenti]

[QUOTE=Shiversolitude]Case in point, my cousin worked there. One of her first days she was approached by a union boss of some sort and told to 'not work so fast, you are going to make other people look bad and cost people overtime'.[QUOTE]

It may be anecdotal, but I hear the exact same thing from an acquaintance. He and his wife are both 30+ year veterans of the USPS.

And again, for the record (FTR) I love the post office!

Cheers,
KP

[DHallerman]

when the government is management, you have a problem almost every time



It's true. When corporations are management, you hardly ever have problems.

[SamIAm]

It's true. When corporations are management, you hardly ever have problems.



You have far, far less and you know it.

[DHallerman]

It's true. When corporations are management, you hardly ever have problems.



You have far, far less and you know it.

Really, do not tell me what I know.

You don't know me.

[SamIAm]

if only poor management and awful customer service and unmotivated workers were limited to government agencies.

any enterprise that employs human beings will have human failings.

Of course any enterprise will have human failings, but government and unions and their unholy offspring really seem to draw out the worst in a worker, largely because of the lack of accountability, consequences and ambition that prevail in these environments.

[Ozz]

I like the USPS and hope it can reinvent itself in a way that is sustainable...

That said, something to consider is the vital role it plays in our economy. Most small and medium sized businesses mail invoices to their customers, and receive payment via return mail in the form of checks.

Check volumes peaked in 2004 (IIRC) and the trend that payments are moving to electronic (wire, ACH, or card based). However, there are still tens of billions of checks written every year...most of them mailed for presentment.

When the mail service is curtailed, the invoicing process and remittance process is slowed down...this means that company cash flows are slowed resulting in increased working capital expense (meaning companies will need to borrow to meet short term cash needs).

To respond to this, companies could move more quickly to paperless invoicing and remittance processing, which will require a capital investment to upgrade systems. Unless banks start lending again, many companies could have difficulty doing this. Companies may also find it harder to get discounts for early payment of invoices....I am sure there are many more implications...but I need to get back to work.

Anyway, no USPS impacts more than just your holiday card delivery, or receiving your latest Colorado Cyclist catalog.

[Fixed]

good point ozz
cheers

[William]

I wonder what it costs to run the the Burning Man Post Office??

:rolleyes:

[rugbysecondrow]

I wonder what it costs to run the the Burning Man Post Office??

:rolleyes:


Not sure, but I think I would charge some more than others.

[Louis]

You could also sell tickets to the spectators tent to make some additional money on the side.

[1centaur]

Of course any enterprise will have human failings, but government and unions and their unholy offspring really seem to draw out the worst in a worker, largely because of the lack of accountability, consequences and ambition that prevail in these environments.

The common thread being lack of choice for those buying the services. Government services tend to be a monopoly, unions tend to have a lock on labor offerings where they work. Monopoly businesses tend to be unresponsive as well. People are people - not inherently willing to give their best without good incentives.

[tiretrax]

It sounds like the previous sender really enjoys the selfish economics enjoyed by USPS customers payed for by our future generations.

I never said I am against a rate increase or a true cost business model.

[eddief]

People are people - not inherently willing to give their best without good incentives.

corporations are people too :). we're totally screwed.

[Volant]

I'd like to see a fee to the sender of every piece of junk mail that ends up in the landfill (in addition to the postage paid). The amount of paper/ink/time that is wasted just amazes me. I don't know how many people are like me, but I've never, not even once, responded to an unsolicited offer in my mail box. You'd think after the 100th+ Capital One credit card offer (just an example) that I haven't responded to they'd get the point and stop sending them. I heard somewhere that almost half of the garbage in landfills is paper. I guess it's this waste that keeps the post office going and helps keep costs down; but that's something I could do without.

[1centaur]

corporations are people too :). we're totally screwed.

No surprise that I think the Supremes got that one right. Corporations are just collections of people trying at various levels of incompetence to make money. They really are not stumbling bumbling nincompoops in their business endeavors yet brilliantly manipulative behind the scenes to extract wealth from the masses through governmental levers. They mostly want to be left alone and should have the right to argue their case and not sit there, shut up, and pay up to those allowed to speak. Their leaders are not any more evil than anybody else; they're sometimes right and sometimes wrong, and just as self interested (and fair minded) as unions and individuals. That's the simple truth, while the counterargument really isn't.

[rugbysecondrow]

No surprise that I think the Supremes got that one right. Corporations are just collections of people trying at various levels of incompetence to make money. They really are not stumbling bumbling nincompoops in their business endeavors yet brilliantly manipulative behind the scenes to extract wealth from the masses through governmental levers. They mostly want to be left alone and should have the right to argue their case and not sit there, shut up, and pay up to those allowed to speak. Their leaders are not any more evil than anybody else; they're sometimes right and sometimes wrong, and just as self interested (and fair minded) as unions and individuals. That's the simple truth, while the counterargument really isn't.

Agreed, not to mention non-profits.

[Fixed]

. Their leaders are not any more evil than anybody else; they're sometimes right and sometimes wrong, and just as self interested (and fair minded) as unions and individuals. That's the simple truth, while the counterargument really isn't.
greed and power can pervert any idea or person
cheers imho
cheers

[rugbysecondrow]

greed and power can pervert any idea or person
cheers imho
cheers

A) this is not true

B) if I understand your bumber sticker philosophy we ought not have people, ideas, money or power comingled because there may or may not be greed or false motives?

[Fixed]

when the main purpose to screw the consumer yes
your sophomoric view is yours
live a few more years and you may see the world differently .
cheers

[rugbysecondrow]

when the main purpose to screw the consumer yes
your sophomoric view is yours
live a few more years and you may see the world differently .
cheers
Age and wisdom are not related Senior Fixed.

And don't answer a bumber sticker statement with another bumber sticker statement...it doesn't explain anything.

Your seem to think that some corporations are created to screw the consumers? That is just not a real smart statement. Without consumers, clients and shareholders, they would go out of business. I can't think of any example of this except maybe a utility company where there is no competition. If a company is trying to screw you, blame yourself as a willing participant.

In addition 99+% of corporations are mom and pop shops, non profits, local business working to bring the best service and working towards the best ends in their industry. Big corporation start small like this (walmart), Hilton, Sear, Ford etc. AARP, Sierra club, NRA, Humane Societies, boys and girls club, urban league, red cross...all corporations that use their personhood to bring special issues to the process and delivery much needed community support.

People talk about corporation like they are evil. Regardless of your age, that is not a very wise statement.

[SamIAm]

I would be interested in a list of the public corporations that are actively trying to screw their customers. This could help me establish some short positions for my portfolio.

Thanks in advance.

[1centaur]

As fairly as I can be, if you have been screwed by a corporation, you may feel they are bad (cable company; insurance company). And it's true that wealth and power are two factors that can lead to bad citizenship (poverty and ignorance are two others). But most people are decent enough at their core, are not born evil, and do not become evil because they join a company, nor do they become evil because they work for one. Here's another truth: most corporations that are perceived as evil are really a combination of ignorant of the consequences of their actions and too indifferent (indifference is not intention) to that outcome (which is why we have regulation). The TSA and the post office can be that way too - it's because they are insulated from the consequences by lack of competition, whereas some corps are insulated by layers of people between them and their actions (real insight may also not be in the executive suite, where big picture thinking crowds out fine distinctions).

For example, bankers did not set out to destroy the world financial system, they were just one part of many elements that led to increased leverage at many levels (personal, governmental, corporate) that unwound when asset values declined under the weight of an insufficiently productive economy. Bankers (management) saw profit in front of their faces day by day and did not truly comprehend what part their role in the chain of events would play (if they had they would not have done it because their jobs (at lower levels) and their equity value (at higher levels) were smashed by the crisis; just because many jobs and some bonuses were paid does not mean pocketbooks did not take a huge hit). While individuals in the system warned of risks at various times as the bubble built, they were ignored as worriers by bosses who knew they would be out of a job if they did not play the competition with their rivals and so hoped the worriers were wrong. The narrative that banks and only banks knew exactly what would happen and did it anyway because their massive greed (and apparent knowledge of a future bailout that had not yet been conceived) was so powerful that nothing else mattered is really a falsehood spread intentionally by people with an agenda. Glass-Steagall repeal was not part of an agenda to screw the world it was the natural desire to reduce shackles that seemed outdated (lessons of history not learned by generations who had not lived them - not surprising).

Again, the evil corptocracy notion is really undermined by what we really can see: people are people and it's impossible to be so average at the job of making money (as we can perceive most companies are) and yet so precisely brilliant at manipulating the strings of the unruly mess in Washington. People who create us vs. them narratives are unworthy of much respect for that notion. It's all us, doing the best we can and often getting it wrong. Let's try to not get it wrong, not create structures around falsely assumed evil that will create useless pendulum swings for decades to come.

[DHallerman]

I would be interested in a list of the public corporations that are actively trying to screw their customers. This could help me establish some short positions for my portfolio.

Thanks in advance.

ExxonMobil.

Chevron.

Royal Dutch Shell.

British Petroleum.

I could go on, just for this "screw" theme, but time is short.

Dave, who says that screwdrivers are a common tool that are less common when doing bike mechanics

[rugbysecondrow]

Again, the evil corptocracy notion is really undermined by what we really can see: people are people and it's impossible to be so average at the job of making money (as we can perceive most companies are) and yet so precisely brilliant at manipulating the strings of the unruly mess in Washington. People who create us vs. them narratives are unworthy of much respect for that notion. It's all us, doing the best we can and often getting it wrong. Let's try to not get it wrong, not create structures around falsely assumed evil that will create useless pendulum swings for decades to come.

Very well said...now if I could only get that on a bumper sticker... :beer:

[jlyon]

It is now my new signature.

[jlyon]

Let's see if it works this time.

[rugbysecondrow]

ExxonMobil.

Chevron.

Royal Dutch Shell.

British Petroleum.

I could go on, just for this "screw" theme, but time is short.

Dave, who says that screwdrivers are a common tool that are less common when doing bike mechanics

Not to belabor this, but we screw ourselves. We create an environment where we shift great power to these companies. We make poor consumer decisions which often put us at odds with these companies. We continue to not learn from our mistakes and we seem to complain about the evil corporations at one time, but then not follow through with that notion with our decision making. We have options to choose, we just opt not to utilize them. That makes us culpalbe in whatever evil is taking place, it makes us, the consumers, responsible for not the product provided but the product used. It is easy to blame others, but we need to be responsible for our role.

[JMerring]

ExxonMobil.

Chevron.

Royal Dutch Shell.

British Petroleum.

I could go on, just for this "screw" theme, but time is short.

Dave, who says that screwdrivers are a common tool that are less common when doing bike mechanics

also, off the very top of my head, netflix and every single insurance company that was ever created.

[SamIAm]

also, off the very top of my head, netflix and every single insurance company that was ever created.

Maybe you guys should start your own company in the gas and insurance sector. You could choose to not screw the customer and no doubt would be wildly successful.

How are the margins at those companies vs. the companies that don't try to screw you?

[eddief]

but not fast enough:

http://www.bcorporation.net/about

[Fixed]

attack who you disagree with call me stupid if you must

this is not a new concept like it or not

i am 5% body fat and can run a -20 min 5 k
at 56
raced for over 30 years so i guess i am rich
cheers

[Kirk Pacenti]

but not fast enough:

http://www.bcorporation.net/about

This sounds very interesting... but also sounds expensive.

[JMerring]

Maybe you guys should start your own company in the gas and insurance sector. You could choose to not screw the customer and no doubt would be wildly successful.

How are the margins at those companies vs. the companies that don't try to screw you?

sam - blind faith in private enterprise is as wrongheaded as blind faith in government. why does it always have to be so binary?

(and spare me the corporate benevolance crap, will ya - money has no honor, integrity or morals; it cares about one thing and one thing only - more money; that's good for some things (like my ipad), but not so for others (like my healthcare).)

[eddief]

product ratings taking into consideration every step in the supply chain:

http://www.goodguide.com/


This sounds very interesting... but also sounds expensive.

[Vancouverdave]

So, let me ask--in the names of "efficiency," "new technology," or (cough, gag, barf) "free markets," how much unemployment and human displacement are we willing to tolerate? The central tenet of right-wing economics (and, no, economics is a human fantasy, no more "science" than astrology) is that labor should be stolen whenever one can get away with it.
And, I agree with BBD, 45 or even 60 cents to get a letter 3000 miles is a bloody miracle and an excellent value.

[rugbysecondrow]

attack who you disagree with call me stupid if you must

this is not a new concept like it or not

i am 5% body fat and can run a -20 min 5 k
at 56
raced for over 30 years so i guess i am rich
cheers


Apparently you read like you write. I never called you stupid, I said your statement wasn't smart...very different.

As far as a rich man getting into heaven, if you are a believer, you know there is much more depth there than you offered up. Might look good on a bumper sticker though. C'mon Man.

[SamIAm]

sam - blind faith in private enterprise is as wrongheaded as blind faith in government. why does it always have to be so binary?

(and spare me the corporate benevolance crap, will ya - money has no honor, integrity or morals; it cares about one thing and one thing only - more money; that's good for some things (like my ipad), but not so for others (like my healthcare).)

I never said corporations were benevolent, I don't expect them to be. I don't have blind faith in private enterprise, I have faith in the american consumer although they don't really deserve it these days.

I don't want the federal government anywhere near my healthcare, state government not optimal, but acceptable, then at least I have choices

[Fixed]

Apparently you read like you write. I never called you stupid, I said your statement wasn't smart...very different.

As far as a rich man getting into heaven, if you are a believer, you know there is much more depth there than you offered up. Might look good on a bumper sticker though. C'mon Man.
please put me on your ignore list as i will you
cheers

[SamIAm]

And, I agree with BBD, 45 or even 60 cents to get a letter 3000 miles is a bloody miracle and an excellent value.


Then by all means they should raise their rates and if you and BBD are right, the post office will be in much better shape. Why stop at .60, why not a couple bucks, then you would have even more revenue right?

[JMerring]

I never said corporations were benevolent, I don't expect them to be. I don't have blind faith in private enterprise, I have faith in the american consumer although they don't really deserve it these days.

I don't want the federal government anywhere near my healthcare, state government not optimal, but acceptable, then at least I have choices

you and i are apparently diametric opposites on the political and economic spectrum, which would make for an interesting ride. imo, the american consumer (or, probably more correctly, american consumerism) and our federalist experiment are part of the problem.

[BumbleBeeDave]

Apparently you read like you write.

. . . or I will shut this one down real quick. :no:

BBD

[rugbysecondrow]

please put me on your ignore list as i will you
cheers


I can do this. Understand though that if you choose to participate in a conversation and don't actually converse (only toss out one liners) somebody might actually try to discuss that with you...dont bristle, but defend your "thought".

[redir]

There seems to be a lot of misinformation in the replies to this post. And for those of you who have mentioned the Post Office union well er umm... UPS and Fed Ex is unionized too :)

Also USPS is self sufficient: http://www.nalc.org/postal/perform/selfsufficient.html#subsidize

And I'm surprised no one mentioned the Postal Accountability Enhancement Act. You can thank Republicans for that one. By passing PAEA, Congressional Republicans mandated that within ten years the United States Postal Service would have to fully fund retirement healthcare benefits for the next 75 years. Or to put it more plainly, the Postal Service had a decade to fully fund the retirement healthcare benefits for future employees that will not even be born until 2057 at the earliest.

The only reason we keep hearing so much about the Postal Service’s impending budget shortfall is because PAEA requires that on September 30 a down payment be made on the healthcare benefits of postal workers 75 years into the future. This law has forced the Postal Service into the red for two years running.

Republicans know the Postal Service is a government agency that works well for Americans. And you know the GOP cannot have an example of good government floating around out there lest it get in the way of their political aspirations. :hello:

Why let a self-funding government agency flourish when you can privatize it and make your corporate cronies even richer?

Ok I think I'm in trouble now :banana: :fight: :no: :D

[eddief]

to quote factual information in place of proclaiming you "know" the truth.

There seems to be a lot of misinformation in the replies to this post. And for those of you who have mentioned the Post Office union well er umm... UPS and Fed Ex is unionized too :)

Also USPS is self sufficient: http://www.nalc.org/postal/perform/selfsufficient.html#subsidize

And I'm surprised no one mentioned the Postal Accountability Enhancement Act. You can thank Republicans for that one. By passing PAEA, Congressional Republicans mandated that within ten years the United States Postal Service would have to fully fund retirement healthcare benefits for the next 75 years. Or to put it more plainly, the Postal Service had a decade to fully fund the retirement healthcare benefits for future employees that will not even be born until 2057 at the earliest.

The only reason we keep hearing so much about the Postal Service’s impending budget shortfall is because PAEA requires that on September 30 a down payment be made on the healthcare benefits of postal workers 75 years into the future. This law has forced the Postal Service into the red for two years running.

Republicans know the Postal Service is a government agency that works well for Americans. And you know the GOP cannot have an example of good government floating around out there lest it get in the way of their political aspirations. :hello:

Why let a self-funding government agency flourish when you can privatize it and make your corporate cronies even richer?

Ok I think I'm in trouble now :banana: :fight: :no: :D

[velotel]

Ok I think I'm in trouble now :banana: :fight: :no: :D
Not with me. What a pleasure to read some reason in all these posts. Bravo!

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . but the thread is, since we've now got both personal attacks and partisan politics. If anybody has something truly new to say on this subject, then feel free to start a new thread. From long experience I think this is the time to move on.

BBD

There seems to be a lot of misinformation in the replies to this post. And for those of you who have mentioned the Post Office union well er umm... UPS and Fed Ex is unionized too :)

Also USPS is self sufficient: http://www.nalc.org/postal/perform/selfsufficient.html#subsidize

And I'm surprised no one mentioned the Postal Accountability Enhancement Act. You can thank Republicans for that one. By passing PAEA, Congressional Republicans mandated that within ten years the United States Postal Service would have to fully fund retirement healthcare benefits for the next 75 years. Or to put it more plainly, the Postal Service had a decade to fully fund the retirement healthcare benefits for future employees that will not even be born until 2057 at the earliest.

The only reason we keep hearing so much about the Postal Service’s impending budget shortfall is because PAEA requires that on September 30 a down payment be made on the healthcare benefits of postal workers 75 years into the future. This law has forced the Postal Service into the red for two years running.

Republicans know the Postal Service is a government agency that works well for Americans. And you know the GOP cannot have an example of good government floating around out there lest it get in the way of their political aspirations. :hello:

Why let a self-funding government agency flourish when you can privatize it and make your corporate cronies even richer?

Ok I think I'm in trouble now :banana: :fight: :no: :D