Crash on SV - ouch

[wooly]

Well, I had a bad weekend. I received the new-to-me 2009 Vagen on Friday which looks great. I decided to take the 08 Vagen out for a final farewell ride before I cleaned her up and took her to the LBS to strip and pack for it's journey to Austria.

I typically ride with the same group of guys every Saturday. We were 3 miles into the ride when I took a sweeping left turn at speed, which I've taken so many times I can't even count. Tarmac didn't look wet but was recently restriped. Front tire went out from under me at I went down hard. After picking myself up off the ground I look immediately to the bike. Besides some scrapes on the skewers and hoods all looked okay. So I road back to the car bloodied up. Once back I took a closer look at the bike. Initially all still looked okay and I was relieved. But then I noticed the dent on the top tube. The handlebars must've swung and hit the tube. I was sooooo bummed. So I shot an email to Klaus in Austria to let him know what had happened with my apologies. Long story short, I refunded him his $$ and have a call into Sache and crew to see what can be done to repair the tube.

Do any of you have experience with repairing something like this? The bike rides straight and true. I thought I might just swap the parts off my son's Merckx and keep it. But if I can have it repaired maybe I'll have other options.

Bummer :confused:

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-M1KGCD9-DZE/TtzrUNpImYI/AAAAAAAAAKI/Zjxo415rfWA/s800/DSCN0834.JPG

[Kirk Pacenti]

Serious bummer! But nothing a top-tube-ectomy and new paint won't fix.


KP

[Matt-H]

Jeez, I feel for you, Wooly. Hopefully your injuries were limited to road rash. I thought there was some conversation here a while back about repairing a top tube dent. I recall Bilenky being able to do it, and it involved filling and/or rolling the dent. Best of luck.

[Joachim]

I would say depends if you want to resell it. Having it replaced by the Vanilla workshop will be much better than having it filled.

[eddief]

and paint?

[thwart]

Certainly looks repairable (assuming frame is square and straight), but the complex paint scheme in that area means that Sacha and his crew may be your best bet, if you want it to look great afterwards.

But---certainly not the least expensive folks to do this kind of repair work.

Sorry to hear about the crash. TegaDerm or its generic equivalent is great stuff for most people. I've had enough road rash that over time I've developed a mild allergy to it.

A reminder for the rest of us to never ride a 'sold' bike. Murphy's law will apply.

[Wimpy]

That sucks but only because of resale value. Maybe it's the cycling gods way of telling you to keep it.

I'm a little surprised. We hear all about how fragile CF is and expect steel to with stand minor crashes with nothing but paint damage.

I suspect a CF bike would have faired better in this case.

[Fixed]

steel lets you know it is hurt carbon does not
cheers imho

[wooly]

If at all possible I will have the guys at Vanilla do the work.

Regarding the durability of steel, I was going pretty fast at about 15ish - maybe faster. It wasn't a hard left - more of a sweeper. The front wheel came out from under me so fast I had little time to react. The fall was pretty damn hard so when I got up I was initially surprised that the damage looked pretty minor. That is until I took a closer look.

I thought I broke my collar bone which would have sucked. But fortunately I've got a little more padding that the thin racer types :) .

Fortunately my wife is an RN so I've got some good TLC at home.

[wooly]

As a little therapy, I took the bike into the shop to have her broken down and had the parts moved to the new-to-me 2009 that just came in. It will be good medicine getting back on the bike.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-rwx08SP9rEM/Ttzq_l0CyGI/AAAAAAAAAJ4/GO8zoUxTWa0/s800/DSCN0831.JPG

I'm hoping my time off won't be too long though. It'll depend on how my hip feels. That and my shoulder took the brunt of the initial pounding.

[Lovetoclimb]

I have been there before. Seems to be those roads and turns we always ride that bite us when we lose even the smallest bit of focus. Glad you are okay. Good luck with the bike fix and enjoy the new one. Those frames sure are stunning.

[akelman]

I'm glad to hear that you weren't badly hurt. And that new bike is hottt!

[rice rocket]

Sucks to hear.

But there's a lesson here, slam your stem and your handlebars won't hit your top tube! :hello:

[wooly]

Sucks to hear.

But there's a lesson here, slam your stem and your handlebars won't hit your top tube! :hello:

Stretching now!

[xeladragon]

ouch... sorry to hear that wooly... hope your wounds heal quickly and that sacha will be able to fix the dent for ya.

[tiretrax]

Big bummer. I hope you recover quickly.

I'd send that to Vanilla/Coat to get fixed, but you also might try one of the paintless dent repair folks in your area. Depending on where the geometry of the head tube/top tube and the location of the dent, they may be able to fish in one of their tools and push out the dent.

[jimcav]

and i don't mean the bike, of which there are hundreds, i mean you.

Many places can check the frame alignment, fill the dent with solders, and repaint it. Joe bell used to paint vanilla, and he is near me in san diego. cyclart will also do a nice job, and also near me, in vista.

i'd be surprised if the dent can be "popped" or pushed out, but who knows.

Dare i say if it tracks true just leave it and enjoy it--any time you are riding you cna go down, and more so in groups, so be nice to have one that is steel and already dinged so you won't care (as much) the next time some jackass knocks it over at a pit stop, etc.

really glad you came out with nothing but a bruise!

PS, if you do get it done at Vanilla/coat, please PM on that process, as I may have a similar situation in the near future!


jim

[Uncle Jam's Army]

Hey Wooly where exactly did this happen in OC?

Sorry to hear about this. What timing, too!

[pdmtong]

Wooly, glad you are ok.

I would vote for having sacha do the repair/paint - best move whether you keep or sell. they can check alignment etc. too and it'll be good as new.

[fiataccompli]

seems if the tubing is not creased, a tube-specific (ie, I wouldn't hand something like that over to people used to repairing hail damage on automotive sheet metal..but others may) specialist could probably bring it out. I'm guessing the top tube is in compression during normal riding, so a crease would worry me.

I'll second what someone said earlier about Murphy's law.

[d_douglas]

As many have said, good thing you are OK.

I too did a farewell ride on a pair of Record carbon shifters that I sold on the forum, I believe. I proceeded to dump the bike at low speed and scratch the !(*& out of the levers, which were almost NOS 9spd models.

I had to email the buyer to tell him the news and I think we scrapped that deal and I sold them for 1/2 price a bit later. Not a big deal, but it sucked.

Good luck on the repair - it is worth it!

[old_fat_and_slow]

Heal quickly, grasshopper !

[xjahx]

Glad that you are ok. That is first and foremost all that matters. As for the beloved SV, see what the guys at Vanilla can do for you. I wonder if they will offer a repair vs a possible discount on a future frame vs...keep us posted.

Nice Vagens. ; )

[Climb01742]

sorry to hear about your accident. glad your 'wounds' aren't worse. but a new SV is pretty nice medicine. ;) get better soon.

[mister]

sorry to hear about the crash, glad your ok.
hope the guy who's bike you crashed wasn't too mad...

[Ahneida Ride]

glad you are ok ...

replacing the tube and re-aligning the bike should be a
straight forward task. I've seen Kelly make repairs like this
on Serotta's and other makes numerous times.

So from the very little I know, usually it is no big deal ...
tube replacement "should be" cake.

the big expense will be the re-paint.

[wooly]

sorry to hear about the crash, glad your ok.
hope the guy who's bike you crashed wasn't too mad...

Thanks all for the concern.

Klaus was very understanding. I really did feel horrible about this. I won't be riding or using equipment that is "sold" in the future!

[that guy]

Hmmm... maybe that's a good spot to install a coupler?

IIRC, Speedvagens had a special butting in the top tube that was thicker where the bars would impact it. Is this true of the road models or just the track models? If your bike has this butting, do you think it helped at all?

[John H.]

+2 on getting it filled and repainted- I have had this done and the frame looked like new. Just make sure it is straight before you have that done.
I have also had a toptube replaced. Be careful about this. The one I had repaired was a Columbus Genius made by a respected builder- repair was done by a different builder. It did not come out good- seat tube ended up slightly ovalized and the bike did not ride right anymore- something was just off.

[cfox]

Hmmm... maybe that's a good spot to install a coupler?

IIRC, Speedvagens had a special butting in the top tube that was thicker where the bars would impact it. Is this true of the road models or just the track models? If your bike has this butting, do you think it helped at all?
That's interesting...hadn't heard of that. Usually double butted steel top tubes with today's super light steels are hair thin, like .4mm in the middle. From what I recall, SV's are very light steel bikes.

[John H.]

Also dent repair is much less invasive and less costly- usually about the cost of a paint job.
I bet toptube replace and repaint at vanilla would be north of 1k-

[soulspinner]

Had a dent in my Strong, Carl filled it with brass when I was ready to repaint. Came out great.

[Peter P.]

There's no way that dent put the SV out of alignment. Some dents are nothing more than DENTS.

You're better off selling the frame as-is. You'll never recover the cost of repairs.

Some builders might be able to roll the dent out. Some steels might crack if subjected to this. I know one builder who drills a hole opposite the dent then uses a punch to tap out the dent. The access hole is then closed with a nail head. I've had frame dents filled with brass and I didn't know the difference. If you're extremely lucky, your frame wouldn't require a full repaint but just a repair of the affected area. This is the best reason to pursue Vanilla and Coat first to determine the feasibility and cost of the repair.

[sjbraun]

A friend of mine incurred a similar dent in a bike. Ed Foster at La Suprema bikes in Tucson worked some magic with a couple of wood blocks. Looks good as new and didn't even need a repaint.

[wooly]

A friend of mine incurred a similar dent in a bike. Ed Foster at La Suprema bikes in Tucson worked some magic with a couple of wood blocks. Looks good as new and didn't even need a repaint.

I was amazed that the paint didn't chip off or anything. The paint that COAT applies is durable stuff.

[jh_on_the_cape]

Put a sticker on it and ride it. Then have it filled and painted when you are ready for a repaint. I would only replace the tube if the dent has a fold or crimp in it. if the dent is all round, ride it.

If you don't agree, many do. I would check on repair costs. Then list it for sale for what you sold it before minus the repair cost. It will sell fast.

[fuzzalow]

An unfortunate accident with the added downside of terrible timing. You were lucky to not have been injured, the bike frame, not so lucky.

No one has said anything about how you erred in handling the sale of your SV so I will mention that: at the point that money was transferred by the buyer and accepted by the seller, that bike frame was effectively off limits. The next steps were to strip down the components, not to take a ride on a frame that was sold and paid for. Because at that point, you are taking risks with a frame that are no longer your risks to take. I don't say this is what you did with intent, maybe it just didn't cross your mind.

I see this as nothing more than etiquette and ethics in the buy/sell marketplace. Best of luck with the repair/repaint.

[leftsidedrive]

An unfortunate accident with the added downside of terrible timing. You were lucky to not have been injured, the bike frame, not so lucky.

No one has said anything about how you erred in handling the sale of your SV so I will mention that: at the point that money was transferred by the buyer and accepted by the seller, that bike frame was effectively off limits. The next steps were to strip down the components, not to take a ride on a frame that was sold and paid for. Because at that point, you are taking risks with a frame that are no longer your risks to take. I don't say this is what you did with intent, maybe it just didn't cross your mind.

I see this as nothing more than etiquette and ethics in the buy/sell marketplace. Best of luck with the repair/repaint.

Thanks Dad.

[firerescuefin]

Thanks Dad.


+1...There's a reason you're the first to say it.

[christian]

-1, in my mind.

If I paid for a bike, and find out that the prior owner was riding it, I'd be pissed. For this very reason.

It's nice that the owner was gracious about the accident.

[firerescuefin]

-1, in my mind.

If I paid for a bike, and find out that the prior owner was riding it, I'd be pissed. For this very reason.

It's nice that the owner was gracious about the accident.

There's a difference between thinking it....and feeling the need to post about it. Wooly made it clear he felt crappy about the whole deal...hence the +1

[wooly]

Yes - mistake acknowledged. Don't need a lesson in ethics. Ive been around here long enough to prove my good standing among our forum friends.

That being said - I feel bad fans apologized to the buyer. Won't be happening again.

There's a difference between thinking it....and feeling the need to post about it. Wooly made it clear he felt crappy about the whole deal...hence the +1

[akelman]

Until you put on a hair shirt (over your wounds), wooly, how are we to know that you've suffered enough for your sins? Also, re. the hair shirt, post pics, please.

[akelman]

Also also, is your new 'Vagen a puny 56? Or did you step up to a more manly 58?

[fuzzalow]

There's a difference between thinking it....and feeling the need to post about it. Wooly made it clear he felt crappy about the whole deal...hence the +1
My post was not an ad hominem on wooly. I see this as an error in judgment that resulted in damage to a frame causing a prior sale to be negated. I did not read anything in wooly's OP that reflected on this issue - simply that the feeling was "sooo bummed". I agree with that sentiment.

So what did I say that I was only supposed to think?

[Volant]

That just sucks!!

Glad to know you're okay.

[fuzzalow]

Yes - mistake acknowledged. Don't need a lesson in ethics. Ive been around here long enough to prove my good standing among our forum friends.
I was commenting on the buy/sell transaction and your assumption of unnecessary risk. Risk that falls under the category of deal-killer.

If a review of what happened here prevents this type of mistake from being repeated, it's a win-win for everybody.

Reputation is important, even on the web. But know that I was only responding to the facts as you wrote them in your OP. My purpose is not to belabor the instance of a mistake or to attack you personally. A misguided sense of stewardship for some members who came to your defense may wish it to appear that way, but it is quite the contrary.

OK, done. Basta.

[DogpawSlim]

Until you put on a hair shirt (over your wounds), wooly, how are we to know that you've suffered enough for your sins? Also, re. the hair shirt, post pics, please.

Are the 2012 SV hair shirts out yet? :banana:

[beeatnik]

A few months back I took a sold jersey on a final ride. I figured I would be washing it anyway before sending it out since it had been in the closet for a few weeks. I also convinced myself that the final ride would give me more input into the performance of the jersey and help me make up my mind about replacing it with a smaller sized version. As soon as I rolled, the thought of crashing and ruining the jersey invaded my mind. Started thinking I would crash, then started thinking that thinking I would crash would make me crash. Luckily, for myself and the jersey and the buyer, I wasn't a victim of Murphy's Law that afternoon. When I got home, I hand washed the jersey, folded it like retail pro and sent it out in its original packaging. Whew....

[akelman]

Are the 2012 SV hair shirts out yet? :banana:

I'm told that the hair shirts this year are the product of an extraordinary trans-continental collaboration between Sacha, Dario, and the epic gents at Rapha. They'll come in a variety of colorways, ranging from dirty f-ing hippie blond to Kardashian brown. Also, I hear that the "surprise me" hair shirts will be spotted numbers they're calling "hyena". But you should keep that on the down-low until they've shipped to the lucky buyers.

(To be clear, I've owned a 'Vagen and a Vanilla. I currently own piles of Rapha gear. And if I could get my hands on the right Peg, I'd have one of those too. Which is to say, the above was typed with tongue in cheek.)

[slowgoing]

A reminder for the rest of us to never ride a 'sold' bike. Murphy's law will apply.

+1

The issue I have had is sometimes I will sell something on short notice, like responding to someone who has a WTB ad. In that case, you haven't really had a chance to get a last ride out of the frame or equipment like you would if you carefully planned its sale over a period of time.

[Keith A]

Just saw this message and I really glad to hear that you are mostly okay. I hope you heal quickly :)

[rwsaunders]

Heal quickly....glad to hear of no broken bones.

[that guy]

Hmmm... maybe that's a good spot to install a coupler?

IIRC, Speedvagens had a special butting in the top tube that was thicker where the bars would impact it. Is this true of the road models or just the track models? If your bike has this butting, do you think it helped at all?

Found this: (http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/tech/2009/shows/nahmbs09/?id=results/nahmbs091)

"Up front, the Speedvagen track bike also features a custom-butted top tube with additional reinforcement where the bars would contact in the event of a crash."

[thendenjeck]

jeez, wooly, that sucks! so sorry to hear!

and I almost bought that thing!

[Louis]

Put a sticker on it and ride it. Then have it filled and painted when you are ready for a repaint. I would only replace the tube if the dent has a fold or crimp in it. if the dent is all round, ride it.

I agree with this. What's the rush to fix it? If it fits keep riding it. If the paint is not damaged that dent could last the lifetime of the frame without causing any issues.

[Fixed]

i raced one year on a
7005 aluminum javelin
that had a dent in the top tube
i got it cheap
i was a little nervous riding dented alum.
way more than dented steel
imho
cheers

[rphetteplace]

Found this: (http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/tech/2009/shows/nahmbs09/?id=results/nahmbs091)

"Up front, the Speedvagen track bike also features a custom-butted top tube with additional reinforcement where the bars would contact in the event of a crash."

never happened.