View Full Version : suggestions for self-policing the forum?
Climb01742
08-02-2005, 04:17 AM
the forum seems to go through high and low tides of crankiness. serotta james points out we may be at a high tide. i know we've discussed this before but maybe a refresher might not be bad. what can we do to turn down the nastiness?
i'll start with three suggestions:
1. look in the mirror. i know i've posted some questionable things. i've gotten carried away. so maybe one thing to do is ask ourselves, have i added to the crankiness? personally, i will try to edit myself better.
2. ignor some posts. just don't respond. step away from the machine. lord knows it's hard sometimes. but as dbrk is trying to teach me by example, silence is pretty eloquent sometimes. and a lot less frustration-inducing.
3. make it factual, not personal. there are always ways of saying the same thing that aren't nasty or personal. tone is hard to convey here. when in doubt, delete. ;)
the passion that we bring to cycling, and this forum, are part of its beauty, i think. personally, i'd hate for the forum to become namby-pamby nice. i miss some of the real fire of the old forum. but there must be a way to keep the heat without the flames.
what other suggestions do folks have?
as richie says, hey thanks for reading.
saab2000
08-02-2005, 04:26 AM
Exactly.
This is the best forum for cycling in the web. Let's keep it that way. I am not implying anything about anyone. But there have been some bad things lately.
Let's just not even go there.
Don't like a post you see? Just turn off the computer and come back later. Ignoring the offensive posts is the fastest way to make them disappear.
We all want this forum to continue. So let's just all take the high road and be nice kids!
Bill Bove
08-02-2005, 04:43 AM
I don't remember The French post so I don't know what was going in it. When something approaches the poof point James should highlight, lock out and explain the violation or poof the thread and send a PM to the offender explaining why. I'd hate to think that I'm unkowingly contributing to the demise of this great forum. There's a lot of good natured ribbing that goes on on this board, Kevin and Sandy for example. It'd be just as sad to lose that as the forum as a whole.
Hey, thanks for reading. and helping.
Andreu
08-02-2005, 05:08 AM
is impossible that is why we have a moderator. The recent French thread and others highlight the issue....there are a handful of posters who seem to have the ability to wind the forum into a frenzy of personal attacks. I am not sure that in any other setting this would happen as the nuances of social interaction are relayed better and everyone would probably get along fine (or at least know the limits).
I was initially anti-"having a moderator"...but over the years I realise we need one and I now only (try to) communicate on the subject of cycling....
PS. there is one rule which seems to be violated on a daily basis:
If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all. Take the high road!
muchas gracias,
A
Kevin
08-02-2005, 06:05 AM
There's a lot of good natured ribbing that goes on on this board, Kevin and Sandy for example.
It is sometime difficult over the internet to distinguish between good natured ribbing and personal attacks. I think you have to give everyone the benefit of the doubt. Assume that the comments are being made by a friend on a weekend club ride. If a friend on a club ride compliments your pink jersey with the hole in it, or your ability to climb a hill at 1 mph after getting off the bike, or getting four flats on a 30 mile ride, you laugh about it and go out for a drink afterwards. We need to do the same thing on this forum. Give people the benefit of the doubt and do not lose the ability to laugh at yourself. :beer:
Kevin
Respond to posts about cycling or some other substantive subject that interests you. Don't respond to personal attacks, even if they're from or against someone you can't stand. If there's someone on the board you're put off by, respond positively to the substantive posts that person offers and ignore the BS posts. Or read them but don't respond and, thereby, don't make it worse or extend it.
Kind of like in life - you let the little PIA stuff go and focus on what's important. Although I post a LOT less than a bunch of folks here, I really like this board and the level of discourse most of the time. It won't always be harmonious, but when it gets out of hand, just let it go and don't add to it.
-Ray
Len J
08-02-2005, 06:42 AM
like it or not, there are some posters that "push my buttons". This is true on most forums, there are just people that I instintivly want to argue with/show that they are wrong/fix them etc...... I don't know why (well I do but that's another topic), but the urge to "Smack them" is strong and can, if I don't pay attention, result in a reflexive and usually inciting response post.
In watching this forum, it is clear that there are other posters and counter posters that have this same effect on each other.
So my suggestion is that we try to be honest with ourselves as to which posters "Push our buttons" and vow not to respond out of reflex. I think this would solve more than half the issues.
Just my .02
Len
e-RICHIE
08-02-2005, 06:51 AM
what other suggestions do folks have?
"Have a good time, all the time."
Viv Savage
Roy E. Munson
08-02-2005, 06:55 AM
Pistols at high noon.
BumbleBeeDave
08-02-2005, 07:07 AM
. . . I think there is always a certain percentage of the population who just don’t get it as far as living with others. It may just be a sad corollary to the popularity of any forum: more members = more who don’t get it. I’ve also noticed over the past year that as we get more and more members, there seems to be more of this kind of behavior that’s not by accident, and more people who seem unwilling to admit either that they were over the top (and apologize) or who are just willing to agree to disagree and move on. God knows I’ve said a few things that look really stupid in hindsight, but I try to admit it when I figure out I’m full of sh*t and do my best to move on.
But I guess I could make a few suggestions . . .
DON’T discuss politics in a serious way. It ALWAYS leads to arguments.
DON’T discuss religion in a serious way. See reason above.
DO use smilies, D@MMIT! I’ve said this so many times before and will keep saying it. This written arena totally leaves out the shoulder shurgs, the raised eyebrows, or the winks and grins that are all part of our body language when we communicate and which can totally change the meaning of what we say. So many of the disputes I’ve seen here have been the result of someone simply taking something the wrong way because the smilies--the “virtual” body language--have been left out by the original poster.
DO be willing to speak up when someone goes over the top. Not in an officious way, but just say, “That’s not cool. XXXX doesn’t deserve to be treated that way.” Friends do that for friends when they see them making fools of themselves.
And lastly, DON’T be fooled by Kevin, since judging by his post above, he’s OBVIOUSLY on the forum only to angle for free drinks! :beer:
BBDave . . . Who would also take free drinks if offered. ;)
PS . . . And where the heck IS Sandy, anyway?
Kevin
08-02-2005, 07:10 AM
. . . And lastly, DON’T be fooled by Kevin, since judging by his post above, he’s OBVIOUSLY on the forum only to angle for free drinks! :beer:
Did somebody say free drinks? Where? When?
Kevin
dirtdigger88
08-02-2005, 07:51 AM
When something approaches the poof point James should highlight, lock out and explain the violation or poof the thread and send a PM to the offender explaining why.
.
James gave at least 2 warnings in the French thread- I think that was more than enough-
Jason
James has a real job at Serotta! As I understand it, monitoring the forum is very much an added (and low priority) responsibility. We should be happy that the forum exists, and that it is monitored, at all. We're not really in a position to be demanding anything from James or Serotta, especially since the forum has no obvious and tangible benefits to Serotta as a whole.
That said, I think the forum does have some less than tangible benefits. It demonstrates that Serotta believes in open and free competition, and careful scrutiny (since we're free to discuss other bikes and even perceived Serotta weaknesses). And it may even draw people into the Serotta community who eventually do buy the bikes, though I bet there are more focused and effective ways of spending advertising money.
Onno
e-RICHIE
08-02-2005, 08:12 AM
[QUOTE=Climb01742]what other suggestions do folks have?
btw - bananas!
JohnS
08-02-2005, 08:15 AM
C'mon. Everybody knows you have to use a Louisville Slugger to get through some of the thick skulls around here. Offbrands just don't work! :D
e-RICHIE
08-02-2005, 08:18 AM
sorry
i thought this was rp's weapon!
BumbleBeeDave
08-02-2005, 08:32 AM
. . . Where's the Carbon Fiber/TI "Ottrott Slugger?" ;)
BBD
JohnS
08-02-2005, 08:53 AM
. . . Where's the Carbon Fiber/TI "Ottrott Slugger?" ;)
BBD
Now this is the way that the forum is supposed to operate!!! :banana:
Ginger
08-02-2005, 09:16 AM
I see quite a bit on "how to respond" to posts you don't agree with. This is all good advice. I understand that anything *can* get on people's nerves depending on the time of day, mood, and lack of emoticons. And I understand that we all slip up and occasionally make errors in judgment when we post things. But how about not starting inflammatory threads to begin with?
The occasional trolls are one thing and to be expected. But when long time board visitors post incendiary or inconsiderate threads, it shows they have little respect for Serotta and little realization of the world-wide exposure this web site provides for Serotta. We may need to remember that our words are not written in a vacuum, but an international fishbowl. Perhaps we also need to remember that we're all visitors in Ben's international house here.
Keith A
08-02-2005, 09:18 AM
I think BBDave said it very well and just wanted to add to his comments. It is indeed easy to misunderstand someone's real intention when you are only communicating via text with no visual or audible clues that comes form face to face communication. I think there are times when we take things the wrong way, that was not intended by the person making the post.
Three things that I think we all need to do when making a post is to:
(1) Proofread our messages before hitting the "Submit Reply" button to make sure that our text agrees with what we are trying to state.
(2) If someone posts something that really gets you going, then don't make a knee-jerk reply. Give yourself some time (minutes, hours, days) to cool down and make a respectful and reasonable reply.
(3) Do use the smilies -- this can indeed help others know that you are just kidding or whatever the feeling you are trying to communicate.
I also do think that there will always be those who do like to antagonize, frustrate, or pick on others just to get a reaction or cause discord. We need to learn to ignore these people and their posts. There is a forum tool that allows you to specify users that you want to ignore. If there is a particular person that really gets your goat, then you might consider adding them to your ignore list so that you don't even have to read their comments (unless they are quoted by someone else).
So let's play nice.
David Kirk
08-02-2005, 10:53 AM
I see quite a bit on "how to respond" to posts you don't agree with. This is all good advice. I understand that anything *can* get on people's nerves depending on the time of day, mood, and lack of emoticons. And I understand that we all slip up and occasionally make errors in judgment when we post things. But how about not starting inflammatory threads to begin with?
The occasional trolls are one thing and to be expected. But when long time board visitors post incendiary or inconsiderate threads, it shows they have little respect for Serotta and little realization of the world-wide exposure this web site provides for Serotta. We may need to remember that our words are not written in a vacuum, but an international fishbowl. Perhaps we also need to remember that we're all visitors in Ben's international house here.
Werd up!
Dave
slowgoing
08-02-2005, 11:43 AM
The antagonists who inflame everybody aren’t going to listen to any of this. They’ve been warned, and repeatedly, and they keep on trying to inflame. Stopping or deleting the threads is nothing more than a band-aid – it doesn’t eliminate the problem. Banning them will.
BumbleBeeDave
08-02-2005, 12:09 PM
Unfortunately, the very freedom that allows a forum like this in cyberspace is the same freedom that makes it almost impossible to ban an individual and make it stick. They can just go to another computer with a different internet address, register under a new name, and keep trolling. So I think we do, as forum members, need to do our part to help police the forum, even if that does make us look like high-handed busybodies.
BBDave
e-RICHIE
08-02-2005, 12:11 PM
Unfortunately, the very freedom that allows a forum like this in cyberspace is the same freedom that makes it almost impossible to ban an individual and make it stick. They can just go to another computer with a different internet address, register under a new name, and keep trolling. So I think we do, as forum members, need to do our part to help police the forum, even if that does make us look like high-handed busybodies.
BBDave
what BBD wrote.
BumbleBeeRichie©™®
Too Tall
08-02-2005, 12:15 PM
Just wanted to tell DAVE something: two posts back you said "Do be".
I once had a supervisor actually tell me "never say anything to your superiors that would not pass the red face test". emoticon begone.
I had this idea a while ago, and now seems like a good time to suggest it.
There are certain good bike-related topics that we should be able to discuss here, but which inevitably lead to angry and repetitive debate. Helmets, for instance. When threads like this get started, we should collectively invoke a one-posting rule. That is, all members can add one and only one post to the thread. This offers everyone a chance to add a voice, and encourages each writer to consider his or her words carefully. And it puts a lid on long series of exchanges that tend to devolve into bickering and insult.
People starting potentially explosive threads could begin by invoking the one-response rule, or it can be declared along the way by the person who began the thread.
Non-cycling related topics that are explosive really have no business being on this forum anyway.
Anyway, this is just an idea. I like the idea of enlightened self-censorship and several of the techniques already suggested. This is just one more technique.
Onno
slowgoing
08-02-2005, 12:56 PM
BBD – While what you say may generally be true, I think an exception is warranted here. There is one long term antagonistic poster (most of us know who he is) who seems to delight in the fact that he can say what he wants and get away with it with no consequences other than the threads in which he posts are deleted. I think he truly believes he is a valuable contributor to the forum even though, in my opinion, he does more harm than good. I think banning him from posting under this name would be particularly appropriate and might finally send him the message that he needs to hear from Serotta itself – that his particular antics will not be tolerated. Sure, he might start posting under another name. But maybe he won’t, either because he takes pride in posting under his particular name, or because finally being sent a firm message by Serotta will make him realize what is already apparent to others. Besides, if he does start posting inflammatory messages under a new nic, he will finally be conceding, to both himself and all of the forum members, that he is a troll. Maybe it will work, maybe it won’t, but I think it is worth the effort (however small that effort would be) because I don’t see deleting threads as having any impact on his conduct.
Ginger
08-02-2005, 01:15 PM
I don't believe this thread was created to "out" anyone, or to attack any particular individual, but to foster constructive discussion on how to avoid the escalation of that sort of issue in future threads.
Banning users is an answer, but it's not our answer to give. Plus, there are two sides to the issue. How do you ban a customer?
(And if we can get Serotta to do our bidding...I'd rather we had them bring the HC back than ban anyone off the board... :) )
Peace
Ginger
Climb01742
08-02-2005, 01:18 PM
I don't believe this thread was created to "out" anyone, or to attack any particular individual, but to foster constructive discussion on how to avoid the escalation of that sort of issue in future threads.
word. peace.
BumbleBeeDave
08-02-2005, 01:33 PM
I have to agree with Ginger. Probably best in the interest of fairness to not mention individuals here--or even imply them. Besides, James says he has gotten many complaints lately--but they may not be from or concerning who we think they are. There's just no way of telling. And with all the different viewpoints here, the member you dislike because of his "antagonistic" posts may be the very one who someone else likes for bringing up interesting points of discussion. Again, there's just no way to tell.
BBDave
Ti Designs
08-02-2005, 04:15 PM
Proofread our messages before hitting the "Submit Reply" button
I find the submit reply button gets me in trouble Now I use the close window button instead and I get flamed a whole lot less...
weisan
08-02-2005, 04:26 PM
Follow Sandy's lead....pray and hope for a complete system meltdown. :D
Andreu
08-03-2005, 02:14 AM
Poofread
A :bike:
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