OT: Digital Camera help

[rugbysecondrow]

I know some of you really know your stuff when it comes to cameras and photography. I am looking to get a nice high quality SLR digital camera for my wife for Christmas. It does not need to be pocket portable, but I am looking for something that does High Resolution, action shots (sport games, kids etc) something of good quality and easy to use.

I am not a camera person so I am likely not explaining myself well. My wife and I are point and click people, but she is wanting something more. Along with the camera, I will look to get training for her on how to use it, either through a photography class at the local community college or some other source.

Looking to spend less than $1000, but would like to find a good quality, high value camera. Something that will last her a while, but not have uber options no real person will use.

Thanks for your help.

[veloduffer]

I use a Nikon D5100 as my lightweight family/travel camera; my other cameras are the D300s and D3 for sports and events.

The camera is about $600 with a kit lens, which is pretty good (but not great). I pair with with a 35mm/1.8 lens for low light shooting and lightweight. Add a SB-400 external flash and it's a great multi-purpose kit.

It has some cool effects modes - Nightvision, Miniature, etc. and predetermined settings, as well as Manual, Aperture Priority, Shutter Priority, Program.

Best of all, it has the same sensor and low light capability as its bigger brother, the D7000.

It also does video and has through the screen focusing (like a point & shoot camera) for pictures and video.

I'm sure Canon has something similar, so I would choose between them. I'm not fully sold on the mirrorless cameras, but do look at the Panasonic G3.

[johnnymossville]

Two cameras that are both EXCELLENT for serious shooters on a budget.

http://www.samys.com/index/page/product/product_id/51773/product_name/Alpha+NEX-5N+Digital+Camera+with+18-55mm+Lens+%28Black%29

http://www.samys.com/index/page/product/product_id/37983/product_name/DMC-GH2+Digital+SLR+Camera+with+14-42mm+Lens+%28Black%29

I have shot with both, and the NEX-5N will pretty much shoot stills as good as anything out there including high end DSLR's, while the GH2's video quality is as good or better than anything under $10k dollars.

Can't go wrong with either of these.

[Steevo]

I've been very happy with the entry-level DSLRs from Nikon. I had a D40 which was replaced by a D3100. You can run these at full auto settings for ease of use, or go as manual as you'd like to explore your inner Ansel Adams. They are priced "reasonably" and offer room to grow. You can really grow as a photographer using this level of camera.

When I purchased my original D40 from Best Buy, I also purchased the extended warranty, as I planned to use the camera in some rough settings. Sure enough, after 2 extended warranty fixes due to rough handling, they replaced the camera, no charge.

[rain dogs]

I would recommend a micro 4/3 camera.

Olympus
Panasonic

a true photophile will scoff, but for small, portable and interchangeable lenses, you can't go wrong IMHO.

[Spin71]

Canon T2i w/ a 50mm 1.8. Light small and takes great photos. You can't go wrong with a similar priced Nikon.

[firerescuefin]

Paul...a word of caution.

I was on a very similar quest a few years ago. That camera has spent more time tucked away.... Portability and woman go hand in hand...and at that price point, you can get something small(er) that takes awesome photos.

[johnnymossville]

I would recommend a micro 4/3 camera.

Olympus
Panasonic

a true photophile will scoff, but for small, portable and interchangeable lenses, you can't go wrong IMHO.

Both great choices. I don't think many photophile's scoff at M4/3 cameras anymore. I work with some pros that carry these when they don't want to or can't lug a giant camera around.

Especially now that VERY fast/wide lens choices are available.

[rugbysecondrow]

Paul...a word of caution.

I was on a very similar quest a few years ago. That camera has spent more time tucked away.... Portability and woman go hand in hand...and at that price point, you can get something small(er) that takes awesome photos.

I know. So, here is my thought. I can get something nice for her as a gift, something of good value and something that she wants. Win.

I can control the cost of this item and be sure that the one purchased is more reasonable relative to what she might spend. Win.

I get to stop looking for gifts for her this year. WIN!

Takes up drawer space. Lose.

3 out of 4 ain't bad.

Seriously though, she thinks she will use it. We use our Iphones for most photos, but for specific events, sports games, family gatherings, she wants something a little better.

Thanks all, keep the ideas coming.

[indyrider]

IMHO, there is no better bang for your buck than the Pentax K-5, which has superb image quality, is well sealed and weatherproof, and has in-body image stabilization....Also has won numerous camera of the year accolades...

Cant beat it (well actually you can, its a tough little camera)

[ergott]

Canon G12

[Louis]

Instead of each person just listing the camera they happen to have that might fit the bill, should we instead explain to Rugby the criteria that would be important for him to make his decision, given the requirements he's described?

That way we avoid the "buy one like mine" syndrome, that does not really educate the consumer.

(I know little about cameras, so I can't do this myself.)

[gavingould]

Like several have said, most of the entry level DSLRs from Canon, Nikon, etc are all decent, capable cameras.
I'm a Canon shooter myself because that's what I learned with in the film days, but have worked with Nikons a bit as well, and find the autofocus is a touch better with the Nikon SLRs.

Two things to think about with any DSLR system:
Portability - they are on the bulky and heavy side especially when adding lenses or an external flash to the deal. My wife almost never carries the tiny point'n'shoot I got for her, even with all the room in her giant handbags.
Lenses - the really nice ones are really expensive and naturally a bit bigger, but they'll last you well beyond the SLR body. Technology improves rapidly with the sensors and computing in the camera body, but lenses stay pretty much the same for decade-length product cycles. My advice to anyone getting into digital SLRs is to start cheap and if you like it, invest in lenses because there will be a newer body next year anyway.

When I don't want to carry an SLR but want better than iPhone quality, I carry a Canon S90, which is now two generations old. Pocketable, decent lens, simple controls, shoots RAW.

Lastly, and a lot of people struggle with this right off the bat, even the best camera setup will need post processing of the files. Whether it's Photoshop, iPhoto, Aperture, whatever - they will need a bit of editing/massaging to get the best out of your images, and there's a learning curve there too. I use Lightroom for this and find it pretty intuitive, though YMMV

[ergott]

The G12 (I don't have one) is a camera that is almost as small as the compacts and almost as versatile as and SLR. The image quality is excellent. I've read from many advanced SLR users that the G12 is a great camera to have because they are more likely bring it along than their SLR kit.

I'd love to have one for the same reasons.

The downside to $1000 SLR kits is that focus performance isn't great when combining a budget camera and it's kit lens. Upgrading a lens or two gets you over that budget real quick. For example, I use a fast focusing lens that captures a lot of light for action shots. It doesn't zoom (85mm f1.8). I've noticed that the camera body needs to be calibrated because it's a little off target when focusing. So now I have to send the equipment in for that. This isn't unusual. Some day I'll get a 7D or 5DII that will alloy me to calibrate my lenses. SLR photography gets advanced quick if you let it. If you don't want to bother with all this and simply point and shoot, get the above camera.

Does your wife have photography experience?

[christian]

Nikon D300 body. Nikon 50 1.8 lens. Done.

[christian]

Instead of each person just listing the camera they happen to have that might fit the bill, should we instead explain to Rugby the criteria that would be important for him to make his decision, given the requirements he's described?How the hell should we know what criteria are important to him. Judging by his other thread, I'd suppose that would be whichever camera can most effectively demonstrate his sexual orientation. And I, frankly, don't know what camera that might be.

[ergott]

Nikon D300 body. Nikon 50 1.8 lens. Done.

I know that's a great kit, but for someone's first kit it would be hard to give up focal range after being used to having it in just about any other camera. 50mm 1.8 requires come composition skill. Tough to learn when you are trying to capture important family events. Great for the photographer that wants to learn photography and will put the time in.

[christian]

I know that's a great kit, but for someone's first kit it would be hard to give up focal range after being used to having it in just about any other camera. 50mm 1.8 requires come composition skill. Tough to learn when you are trying to capture important family events. Great for the photographer that wants to learn photography and will put the time in.

Using a zoom requires more skill than using a prime. With a prime you have to think about composition, depth-of-field, focus, and light. With a zoom, you have to think about all that, and determine what type of perspective you're looking for. People who use zoom to compensate for moving their feet aren't "doing it right."

[rugbysecondrow]

The G12 (I don't have one) is a camera that is almost as small as the compacts and almost as versatile as and SLR. The image quality is excellent. I've read from many advanced SLR users that the G12 is a great camera to have because they are more likely bring it along than their SLR kit.

I'd love to have one for the same reasons.

The downside to $1000 SLR kits is that focus performance isn't great when combining a budget camera and it's kit lens. Upgrading a lens or two gets you over that budget real quick. For example, I use a fast focusing lens that captures a lot of light for action shots. It doesn't zoom (85mm f1.8). I've noticed that the camera body needs to be calibrated because it's a little off target when focusing. So now I have to send the equipment in for that. This isn't unusual. Some day I'll get a 7D or 5DII that will alloy me to calibrate my lenses. SLR photography gets advanced quick if you let it. If you don't want to bother with all this and simply point and shoot, get the above camera.

Does your wife have photography experience?

Ergott, no experience aside from point and click. I am doubt she would become a hobbyist, but I know she would like something nicer and more competent than what we have. If I spend the money on a nicer camera, I would also look for a course that would help her learn how to use it. Thanks!

Louis, I am guess I am not versed enough either and I likely am not asking the right way. I can only describe how it would be used, not really anything else as I am a goober when it comes to cameras. That is why I am drilling down the recs made to see what options they have a reading about them.

Christian, fortunately most cameras are gender neutral so it will work well for both my wife and myself.

[veloduffer]

To provide some more context to my post: I've been shooting photos since I was 12 with a rangefinder and had Nikon F3s and various others. I had a D100 when digital came out and currently use a D3/D300s (with pro glass) for more serious endeavors.

I had a D40x for a light travel kit and then tried the mirrorless Olympus ELP2. Trying to shoot a wedding with the Olympus was frustrating - not as good with high ISO, particularly action shots, and really needed an external flash unit. Also, battery life wasn't great. Moreover, despite it being smaller than my DSLRs, it wasn't pocketable and cost as much as much as the D5100 with less performance. So if I have to carry a small bag, I might as well use a DSLR. I don't see the gain in mirrorless until the form is as small as a point & shoot compact. :confused:

[deechee]

Seriously though, she thinks she will use it. We use our Iphones for most photos, but for specific events, sports games, family gatherings, she wants something a little better.

Can you elaborate on this?
A lot of people have been recommending 35 or 50/1.8's but you won't get much use out of it standing 100m away from the action for sports photography. For family gatherings are you looking for a wide angle to shoot groups or advanced flash options for indoor shots? Due to the crop factor on most digital SLRs, you'll need something like a 10-15mm to get a reasonable wide angle.

Any SLR will work, its the lenses which are key. If you don't know what kind of lenses you want, read this (http://photo.net/equipment/building-a-digital-slr-system/) . Once you figure that out, here's a good lens review site (http://lensplay.com/lenses/lens_top_ten.php) for Canon.

[Louis]

How the hell should we know what criteria are important to him.

Maybe read his post, and if it doesn't provide the info you need or what he should really be considering explain why.

If a noob were to post "What bike should I buy?" what would you say if you were inclined to help?

[christian]

Maybe read his post, and if it doesn't provide the info you need or what he should really be considering explain why.Can't do any more. He's on my ignore list now.

[rugbysecondrow]

Can't do any more. He's on my ignore list now.


You put a lot of effort drawing attention to yourself just to say that. :beer:

[merlinmurph]

Seriously, take a big step back, be honest with yourself and your wife, and think about what you're going to be willing to carry. The camera you never carry is useless. There are millions of SLR cameras sitting in closets because people don't want to carry them. The thing about cameras is tradeoffs - you're always trading off one thing for something else. The big tradeoff is portability vs. function.

Just a guess, but I'm going to say that you probably don't even need an SLR - just a guess. An SLR can be a royal PITA to carry, or at least enough of a PITA to not carry it.

Saying that, a few people have suggested Canon G12, which is an almost-SLR. It has 98% of the capability and a lot more portability. Check to see if the lens goes long enough for what you'd want (you mentioned sports). Lots of excellent photogs use the G12 as their carry-around camera.


That's my 2 cents,
Murph

[vqdriver]

initially my wife and i had similar needs. our iphones were always with us so they became the defacto memorable-moment cameras. but we wanted something to shoot around the house with the kids and when on vacation or events and such. another requirement was good low light performance, where p&s and iphone cams just fall short. over the last 5 years or so, we've acquired a Nikon d80, canon g10, a panasonic lumix dmc-ts1, and (just last week) a canon 60d.

observations:

re: the canon 60d, and this is more in relation to the features more than the specific camera itself

the canon 60d will replace the aging nikon d80 the d80 was fine but features/technology have come a long way in that time and i needed smarter autofocus the 60d has a "face detect" feature that carries up from their p&s cameras. gimmicky, but works well for my purposes and avoids the focus hunting while the camera decides what it wants to focus on. i also wanted video capabilities built in, and while i was at it, it might as well be full hd. the articulating screen is great for manual focusing from hip level (like when i'm shooting my kids) the additional megapixels (nikon = 10mp canon=18mp) are great if you're into that, but really 10mp was plenty for everything i would ever do with these pictures. it was plenty for all but crazy size enlargements and i'm not sure i'll ever get the full benefit of 18mp i also prefer the canon image processing cuz i shoot in jpg. obviously, this is personal preference.


re: the canon g10 (or the gXX line)

it has the manual control of an slr
it slots in between an slr and a p&s for portability, but it lacks the responsiveness of the slr and the sexiness of a nice p&s or the true portability to really be there when you want it
tho it delivers on the manual controls and it has great image quality, it never really found a purpose in my life and is the only camera that went largely unused and we eventually gave it away.



as for buying advise, i'd stick with nikon or canon simply for the number of lenses/accessories available from the maker or third parties. nothing against pentax or sony but they just won't have the same market support if you or your wife grow into it.

i also noticed while doing my own shopping, that nikon has a fair gap in their line. the d90 is due for a replacement and they have the d5100 around the same pricepoint. the next model up is the d7000 which is crazy nice but much more expensive.
unless you absolutely must have the lcd display atop the body (which i do), the canon t3i and nikon d5100 are pretty compelling. i'd forego the kits and get the body only and pick your lens. get a fast prime lens instead of a mediocre zoom (tho i've heard the canon 18-55 is actually OK)

i've used the nikon 50/1.4 and a nikon 35/1.8 extensively and they are both fantastic.
on my canon, i went with a sigma 30/1.4 and i'm very happy with it so far, and it's available for nikons as well.
you probably won't be getting a full frame camera, so stick with a 28 to 35 lens if you go prime.

[tuxbailey]

Rugby,

The combo packages they sell in Costco (either Canon or Nikon) will fit your requirement. Not expensive, come with 2 lens.

You can add external flash and a fast prime if you have the need later.

[Ray]

I hate to say this because I'd personally never buy one, but the new Nikon J1 and V1 look like they might just be the ultimate soccer mom's camera. They have a smaller sensor than any DSLR and even smaller than the m43 cameras, but still notably larger than compacts. The low light ability is surprisingly good so it should be fine for shooting family gatherings. But the thing that's really blowing people away is the speed and accuracy and tracking ability of the AF and the burst mode. Just what you need to capture kid's sports but still small enough for a purse (and won't get stuck in a drawer or closet. These won't do poster sized prints as well as a larger sensor camera, but for GETTING the shot, they're really good. Its worth a look anyway. I know some pretty high level photographers who were really skeptical who have fallen in love with these cameras.

I have a hard time recommending an actual DSLR these days except for people with really specific requirements and they generally know who they are...

-Ray

[charliedid]

I know some of you really know your stuff when it comes to cameras and photography. I am looking to get a nice high quality SLR digital camera for my wife for Christmas. It does not need to be pocket portable, but I am looking for something that does High Resolution, action shots (sport games, kids etc) something of good quality and easy to use.

I am not a camera person so I am likely not explaining myself well. My wife and I are point and click people, but she is wanting something more. Along with the camera, I will look to get training for her on how to use it, either through a photography class at the local community college or some other source.

Looking to spend less than $1000, but would like to find a good quality, high value camera. Something that will last her a while, but not have uber options no real person will use.

Thanks for your help.

Buy this camera...

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/768477-REG/Panasonic_DMC_G3KK_Lumix_DMC_G3_14_42mm_Lens.html

Seriously.

[neiltron]

Keep in mind you can rent cameras from places like borrowlenses.com or lensrentals. Going to a B&M store and fooling around with a camera isn't going to get you a good feel for how you like the camera controls - like riding a bike around a parking lot when deciding to purchase it.

My recommendation to keep things in your budget and come out with better equipment is to buy used.

Buy a used Canon or Nikon body in the $400-600 range. Spend the rest on lenses - preferably used. Both B&H and Adorama have used equipment departments, and kehphoto.com sells nothing but used equipment (they also tend to under-rate quality - I've bought plenty of items that were "BARGAIN" quality - at significantly lower prices than "Excellent" or "Good" quality rated items - and turned out to be just fine).

Canon makes an 18-135mm lens that will be just fine for casual sports, etc. The 50mm 1.8 lens at $110 is a no-brainer and she will have lots of fun with a lens that fast.

And don't forget: GOOD name-brand memory cards (Sandisk Extreme line, Lexar Pro), a good card reader and Adobe Lightroom. I cannot stress this enough. You have a digital camera and your wife will end up with millions of photos. Adobe Lightroom is your tool to easily manage, edit and share photos. It's wonderful. Lynda.com has good training videos on how to use the software.

[JMerring]

I hate to say this because I'd personally never buy one, but the new Nikon J1 and V1 look like they might just be the ultimate soccer mom's camera. They have a smaller sensor than any DSLR and even smaller than the m43 cameras, but still notably larger than compacts. The low light ability is surprisingly good so it should be fine for shooting family gatherings. But the thing that's really blowing people away is the speed and accuracy and tracking ability of the AF and the burst mode. Just what you need to capture kid's sports but still small enough for a purse (and won't get stuck in a drawer or closet. These won't do poster sized prints as well as a larger sensor camera, but for GETTING the shot, they're really good. Its worth a look anyway. I know some pretty high level photographers who were really skeptical who have fallen in love with these cameras.

I have a hard time recommending an actual DSLR these days except for people with really specific requirements and they generally know who they are...

-Ray

my biggest reservation with sub-dslr but not compact cameras, especially with kids and other fast moving subjects, is time to take a picture. if they've solved this with the j1/v1, then this is probably the camera for your wife. a dslr is great, but i feel to get the benefit of it, especially a nicer one, you need to learn a little about the science and art of photography.

[ergott]

Using a zoom requires more skill than using a prime. With a prime you have to think about composition, depth-of-field, focus, and light. With a zoom, you have to think about all that, and determine what type of perspective you're looking for. People who use zoom to compensate for moving their feet aren't "doing it right."

Point and shooters aren't worried about all that. They put the camera in full auto and shoot away once they get the zoom in close enough. Believe me, I know what you are talking about. I just don't see any beginners that have no intent on learning photography caring about the above mentioned concerns. They want a capable camera to capture the kids' games or birthday parties. The G12 (or similar competitor) is fine for that.

Point and shoot cameras can do some pretty nice work. This was my old Olympus from almost 7 years ago. It is a piece of crap compared to what's out there today. Just find the picture mode you want on the dial, compose and shoot. If you still find that limiting your work, shoot in the manual mode. If you still don't get what you want then consider the leap into an SLR. Today's P&S cameras are light years ahead of what I used to have.

http://ergottwheels.smugmug.com/Nature/Assorted-nature-shots/P7140448/397862930_xTDfj-O.jpg

[ergott]

Here's a Canon Rebel XS with an Olympus 50mm 1.8 adapted to fit. The reason for that lens is it has a much smaller profile than a Canon 50 1.8 so It's easier to transport on the bike.

Manual focus is fun;-) It's not for everybody. If I try to hand my wife my camera set up with that lens she won't want to shoot anything.

http://ergottwheels.smugmug.com/Nature/Assorted-nature-shots/MG0225/581667513_92TBR-O.jpg

[rnhood]

The picture of the dog is outstanding.

[ergott]

Zoom lenses aren't the problem.

Canon XTi with 70-200mm f 4.0

http://ergottwheels.smugmug.com/Nature/Assorted-nature-shots/IMG4488/278520257_dFec7-X2.jpg

[ergott]

In Christian's defense, you can't do this with a zoom (or P&S for that matter).

Canon 5D with a Minolta Rokkor 58mm f 1.2 shot wide open. I had to shave the camera mirror to make that lens work, but it was totally worth it.

Click on the pic for the full resolution shot. It's incredible how small the depth of field is.

http://ergottwheels.smugmug.com/Other/Snow-Day/MG4493/438036366_S5b3s-X2.jpg (http://ergottwheels.smugmug.com/Other/Snow-Day/MG4493/438036366_S5b3s-O.jpg)

[Louis]

Eric, I remember that "dog under the gate" picture from when you first posted it. Very touching. It was Mexico, or South / Central America, right?

Louis

[ergott]

Eric, I remember that "dog under the gate" picture from when you first posted it. Very touching. It was Mexico, or South / Central America, right?

Louis

Thanks guys.

Ecuador. I never felt a moment like that before. I knew I had a very small opportunity there. I was actually on the way to get some bizcochos.

[rugbysecondrow]

Thanks fellas. The suggestion to go to a shop is a good one and I think I will do that this weekend. I have had point and shoots before, and we have one currently but the delay and poor quality indoor shots really is not preferable.

When it comes to cameras, I know squat so even asking questions appropriately is hard.

Thanks

[rugbysecondrow]

The more I read, the more it seems what we really want is a G12 or Sony NEX-5N type of camera.

That really helps to narrow down...something less than a DSLR but something more than the typical point and shoot.

Thanks

[Doug Fattic]

I'm no digital camera expert but I take quite a few pictures of students in action with the various cameras they bring to my framebuilding classes. More than 1/2 of my students come from some kind of art background so I see quite a few decent DSLRs. I am often asked to take shots of them brazing something up. I encourage them to bring a camera and take lots of pictures to document the entire process. For my personal use I bought a Canon G12 (and before that a G9). In my past I learned to take 35mm pictures without any automatic help on my dad's expensive Leicas. I way prefer using my G12 over the bigger cameras. One reason is that I like composing a picture on the back screen rather than looking through the viewfinder. Another reason is that although my G12 is not as compact as its cousin the Canon 95 (they have a 100 now I think) it is still small enough and very convenient to just grab and use. I know I take a lot more pictures with it than I would a bigger camera even just in the shop. It doesn't seem like it has to be a deliberate effort. And frankly I haven't seen better pictures come from my student's camera than what I get from my G12. That isn't to say a skilled person couldn't but we all know good pictures comes mostly from the taker and not the camera. When I am in Ukraine working on our bicycle project over there, I can easily take it with me where ever I go (even on a bike) and not seem liking I'm lugging something around. It can fit into my jersey pocket but barely and requires a little effort to get it in. Still, it is possible to have it conveniently with me at normal times and not just when I'm going to deliberately take pictures as an art form. I know I wouldn't use a big camera nearly as often.

The G12 has a flip screen which is great for those overhead shots of a frame being assembled in the fixture on the flat table. But there are others times I find it useful too. The G9 didn't have that feature and I wished it did even if I wasn't shooting overhead pictures of frames. I have never found low light situations that my G12 couldn't handle nicely. It has a variety of picture adjusting knobs on the body for customized control. I think it makes sense as a good picture taking starter. If and when your wife finds she enjoys taking pictures seriously as a hobby than next year you will know again what to get her as an upgrade.

[charliedid]

G12 is still a point and shoot...Nex or Micro 4/3 cameras will have much more flexibility for future use and will be faster in operation and work better in low light due to a slightly larger sensor which can result in cleaner looking (less grainy) images when not using a flash. G12 is a nifty camera but is really just a larger P&S with external controls instead of digging through menus on a screen.

On the other hand, why not let her pick out a camera with the help of a qualified sales person? It is similar to bikes in that it really helps to "like" what you are shooting with.

Good luck...cameras are worse than bikes! ;-)

[indyrider]

I think that there is a ton of good advice here, but ultimately one fact has not been mentioned the entire thread (I think, without re-reading every post).

You must have good light! Thats what every photographer needs and with todays technology, every camera is a winner and you cant go wrong.

This shot was taken with a $300 Panasonic FZ18 superzoom which is about 4 years old or so...Sunset on black friday

[happycampyer]

Thanks fellas. The suggestion to go to a shop is a good one and I think I will do that this weekend. I have had point and shoots before, and we have one currently but the delay and poor quality indoor shots really is not preferable.

When it comes to cameras, I know squat so even asking questions appropriately is hard.

ThanksI think that there have been some great suggestions for cameras, so I won't try to add to that, but one suggestion I would make is to work with a good camera shop that has these cameras in stock so you can check them out in person. In New York, there are places like B&H, although since moving to the suburbs I've shifted almost all of my photo-equipment purchases to a high-end local shop (Camera Wholesaler's in Stamford) that's like a mini B&H that's open on Saturdays. It really helps to be able to pick the cameras up, get a feel for them, see the shutter response times, etc.

P.S. While you're at the shop, pick up an S95 as a stocking stuffer for yourself...

P.P.S. Eric, that shot of the dog is spectacular!

[oldpotatoe]

Canon G12

What he said, my xmas gift to wife...

[rugbysecondrow]

G12 is still a point and shoot...Nex or Micro 4/3 cameras will have much more flexibility for future use and will be faster in operation and work better in low light due to a slightly larger sensor which can result in cleaner looking (less grainy) images when not using a flash. G12 is a nifty camera but is really just a larger P&S with external controls instead of digging through menus on a screen.

On the other hand, why not let her pick out a camera with the help of a qualified sales person? It is similar to bikes in that it really helps to "like" what you are shooting with.

Good luck...cameras are worse than bikes! ;-)

By faster, do you mean user interface or that actual picture taking, the delay or lack of that is involved with many cameras?

Thanks, I will see if I can find something by myself first. If not, I will take her, but I hate buying gifts like that...anticlimactic.

[charliedid]

By faster, do you mean user interface or that actual picture taking, the delay or lack of that is involved with many cameras?

Thanks, I will see if I can find something by myself first. If not, I will take her, but I hate buying gifts like that...anticlimactic.

Good point....forgot that it was a gift.

Faster in terms of focus and shutter lag which can be dreadful on a P&S including the G10-12 Canon though G12 is better.

Faster also in that you can put a "faster lens" on it and increase the ability to shoot in lower light as well as controlling the depth of field, especially a shallower depth of field which is where you see a subject in focus but the background is blurry or out of focus also known as the bokeh in a photo. Usually employed in portraits.

Don't get me wrong...G12 a a slick unit and most anybody will be able to make good images with it. I just think an interchangeable lens camera, either a DSLR or mirrorless camera like the Sony Nex or an Olympus/Panasonic micro 4/3 offers a ton of ability to explore, create and really understand how photography works and what is possible.

http://www.dpreview.com/ is a good place to sart understanding more.

And here is an example of being able to throw the background out of focus. The bigger the sensor and faster the lens the easier it is to do it. G12 can but only in a very limited way. Most P&S can not do it at all.

http://www.63images.com/blog/index.php?showimage=1

[bking]

Me, i'd start with something that takes great photos, has good manual control, and is portable. Even if you do decide to get an slr, or one of the other near slr's mentioned here, you are going tocome back and buy this camera so she can slide it into her purse, or you into your pocket.
One of the posts above mentioned one, but here are three to consider:
Canons S100 (hard to find right now as it's brand new)
Panasonic DMC LX5
Nikon coolpix 300

All three are very portable (canon and nikon more so).
All three offer incredibly fast lenses (nikon at 1.8!) and great control for P and s.
These are cameras that even IF she decided to go "pro", she'd want to own.
Can't go wrong starting here.

Just a thought

[Charles M]

My next one...

http://www.photographyblog.com/reviews/sony_a35_review/

http://www.photographyblog.com/images/sized/images/uploads/sony_a35_review-275x278.jpg


Unless you're doing something very specialized, there's zero reason to go higher end than this. The image quality on auto is fantastic and simple and you can get into loads of manual if you need to.


And with the clear Mirror tech, the video quality is MILES ahead of anything else that's not a specialized vid camera.

[Ray]

There have been a lot of recommendations for a Canon G12 and, while its a fine camera in many ways, based on your stated criteria, I think its a terrible choice. If you DO want to go in this direction, the new Fuji X10 just raised the bar for this type of compact by a LOT, so get that, but I don't think this is the category you're looking for. Your wife wants to catch your kids in their sports activities, right? This, along with any low-light shooting she wants to do will be the most demanding tasks you're asking of any camera you buy.

Up until not long ago, a DSLR was the ONLY option for reliably and easily catching action shots, particularly with a telephoto lens of any consequence. But other cameras are catching up. A year ago I'd have said m43 cameras were a terrible choice for that, but the Auto Focus and shutter lag (more specifically, LACK of shutter lag) have gotten insanely good in their most recent models - better than most mid-level DSLRs, nearly as good as very good DSLRs. That's in single shot mode. In burst mode, they're still not as good as a good DSLR, so if she's planning on a career with Sports Illustrated, she should still get a DSLR. But for family stuff, any of the new generation m43 cameras will do VERY well. I have one and have shot at MLB games from the upper deck and gotten some very good long telephoto shots with it. And very few misses compared with the previous generation of these cameras.

And the new Nikon J and V series cameras are reputed to be even better, notably so, with good subject tracking auto focus and burst modes of 60 shots per second. Which is really overkill, but very impressive nonetheless. And these cameras, despite their smaller than m43 sensors, are surprisingly good in low light. Not as good as a large sensor DSLR, but more than good enough for most people, and if she's OK with using a flash, its a non-issue.

The smaller cameras that have DSLR sized sensors (Sony Nex, Ricoh GXR, Samsung NX200, Fuji X100) are better in low light - DSLR good in low light - but their auto focus is NOT that fast. I'd expect the next generation of these cameras will catch up with m43, but the currently new Nex cams are slower auto focus cameras. Not BAD, not by a long shot, but the m43 and new Nikon gear is just phenomenally good and notably better than the Nex, which is probably the best of this category for auto focus. So I wouldn't say one of these non-DSLR larger sensor cameras is gonna be a good choice. Yet. Give them another year, though... This stuff is just improving by leaps and bounds. I suspect mid level and entry level DSLRs are headed for the dust bin and the really good high end DSLRs will live on, but mostly as professional tools, much as medium format cameras are used today. So I wouldn't go with a DSLR for what she sounds like she needs. As others have said, its very likely to get stuck in a drawer or closet in favor of a cheap point and shoot.

I hope this helps.

-Ray

[Wayne77]

IMHO, there is no better bang for your buck than the Pentax K-5, which has superb image quality, is well sealed and weatherproof, and has in-body image stabilization....Also has won numerous camera of the year accolades...

Cant beat it (well actually you can, its a tough little camera)


+1000

The K-5 is the best APS-C DSLR on the market right now. The body is robust magnesium, you can knock it around, its weather proof as stated above, compact (for a DSLR), has a quiet shutter sound). I shot with it in the pouring rain in Moab earlier this year and it was a joy, and hot some incredible photos. You can get the body for $999 on ebay right now, which is an incredible deal for a semi-pro DSLR. I LOVE this camera. That said, if you want something smaller, I agree with others who have said feature for feature, it's hard to beat the Sony NEX-5N. If you want something smaller that has incredible out of camera colors if you're not into post-processing, its hard to beat the Olypmus micro 4/3 cameras like the E-PL3, EP-3, etc. Their build quility is great too - like the iPhone equivalent of a camera. The Panasonic micro 4/3 cameras are good too, but I can't stand the skin tones- too much of a bluish/magenta cast for indoor photos. But that may just be me...

Edit: One nice thing about the Oly Pen series is the auto focus is lighting fast now - as fast as any entry level DSLR. You can get the E-PM1 for arounf $450 online, holiday discount. Seriously, Olympus out of camera colors are amazing - they're known for that. Sounds like something like a K-5 or other APS-C camera would be overkill, so if you don't want to mess around in photoshop to tweak things, Oly colors are wonderful...

If you also want to shoot video, I'd personally go for the NEX 5N. If you don't care about shooting HD video and don't need low light capability, I can't recommend the Pen series enough.. Just my .02

Or you could "Go Epic" and just spring for a Lieca M-9 :rolleyes:

[parris]

There have been many recomendations as far as camera and such. But you also mentioned that learning to run the gear once you get it is important which is a very smart way to look at things. I know a few shooters who can make a sub $100 p/s run rings around people who have pro grade gear and it comes down to these people knowing what the gear they have can do and more importantly they've developed their eye. To that end You may want to look at the Kelby training web site for online courses at pretty decent rates.

In the end a camera of good quality will be able to do what you and your wife would like it to do if a little time is spent learning how to run the system. A dslr is an advantage in that the image sensor is larger, the systems run faster, and there's more lenses/accessories out there. P/S cameras are handy and in many cases the image quality is quite good. Good luck with your search.

[rain dogs]

...something less than a DSLR but something more than the typical point and shoot.

Ok, let's do this so it isn't just 100 voices shouting the camera they recommend (the camera they often have or want) at you.

What format do you want?
1. DSLR 2. Point and Shoot 3. Micro 4/3

Based on your comment above I'd say micro 4/3

What is your budget?
1. 500 or less, 2. 500-1000, 3. 1000+

Are interchangeable lenses important?

The camera is one thing, the lens is another. If you have one, you're stuck with it, if you can change them, you have magnitudes more options for growth.

It's like coffee. The machine is important, but it's your beans (technique) and grinder (lens) that make the best results.

What size camera do you want?
other peoples beautiful photos are great, but you often have no idea what took them. Large and Medium format cameras are/were awesome, but who wanted to carry them in a pannier/purse? Maybe their camera cost $9000 and your budget is $400.

What are you going to use it for?
Vacations, business, art, career, product-shots, blogging, family doc'ing, only still photos, video as well?

These are just some questions.

It sound to me like you want a camera that can be an advanced point and shoot with room to grow. Learning about aperture/shutter speed/bracketing/depth of field... the basics of "advanced" photography.

You've said about a photography class, where they will teach you these things. If you bring in a point and shoot, they'll ask you to buy a new camera, like a basic dslr or more advanced micro 4/3.

I'd still recommend a micro 4/3. If she loves it, she'll buy another camera. Do you only have one bike?

go here and look at micro 4/3's or the dslr's that people have recommended that fit your criteria.

www.dpreview.com

I will say this: I believe, now that micro4/3 exists, buying a camera with one built in lens is a little foolish. The only distinct advantage to that, before 4/3, was size and weight.

[Ray]

I will say this: I believe, now that micro4/3 exists, buying a camera with one built in lens is a little foolish. The only distinct advantage to that, before 4/3, was size and weight.
Unless you're the type who will buy the camera with a kit zoom lens and never buy another lens and never remove the one that came with the camera. In which case, you can do better with one of the nicer compacts out there with a faster zoom. The Olympus XZ1 maintains an aperture of f1.8 to f2.4 throughout its zoom range - even with a smaller sensor that's gonna give you better low light handling than an m43 cam with the zoom lens. The brand new Fuji X10 has nearly as fast a lens and a much nicer (if only slightly larger) sensor and it just raised the bar for these high end compacts by quite a bit - I have one and its an amazing travel or biking/hiking camera when I don't even want to carry my m43 gear. Or, if you're a real hard core and want a great camera with a single lens and fixed focal length (sort of the camera equivalent of a single speed, almost a fixed gear) - I personally have two of these.

I fundamentally agree with you, BTW, and I have an Olympus EPL3 and a bag full of lenses to prove it, but there are a LOT of people who never buy a second lens. In which case, m43 might not be the best choice. But if we're talking about shooting kids in their various sports, I'd go for m43 or the new Nikon J or V, which are nearly as good on image quality and, from everything I'm hearing from early adopters, notably better in terms of AF, both speed and tracking, and burst mode shooting (and continuous tracking during the bursts). Sounds like they should sell a lot of them. Not to me, mind you, but Rugby's wife sounds a lot like the market they've aimed those at, and Nikon tends to have really good aim!

-Ray

[troymac]

Here is a good site http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech.htm. He has detractors on both sides but he does cover a lot of information and is a good source. Remember when buying a DSLR your not so much buying a camera as you are a system meaning Canon lenses only work on Canon cameras Nikon to Nikon etc. I know some will try to correct me ... there are adapters to circumvent this but for the most part this isn't too common. A $1000 you can get a very nice camera. And yes you are much better off taking some classes and learning to use your camera than thinking spending "x" amount will guarantee a great photo. Here is a good book to get started on also. http://www.amazon.com/Understanding-Exposure-3rd-Photographs-Camera/dp/0817439390/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1322942388&sr=8-1

[DogpawSlim]

Unless you're the type who will buy the camera with a kit zoom lens and never buy another lens and never remove the one that came with the camera. In which case, you can do better with one of the nicer compacts out there with a faster zoom[...]

This is good info. The biggest advantage of SLR's is interchangeable lenses. If you're not going to interchange the lenses, you're better off without the weight, size, and expense. Good lenses are not cheap, but will last a lifetime (assuming you pick a system with staying power), and won't drop much, if any, in value.

I used to shoot large and medium format, and SLR's and DSLR's with a huge bag of nice lenses. I now only have a Canon S90. That being said, I would love to have a Pentax K5 and a set of their limited primes...

[Ray]

This is good info. The biggest advantage of SLR's is interchangeable lenses. If you're not going to interchange the lenses, you're better off without the weight, size, and expense. Good lenses are not cheap, but will last a lifetime (assuming you pick a system with staying power), and won't drop much, if any, in value.

I used to shoot large and medium format, and SLR's and DSLR's with a huge bag of nice lenses. I now only have a Canon S90. That being said, I would love to have a Pentax K5 and a set of their limited primes...
Right, and its pretty prevalent. If you go to your local tourist attraction (almost everyplace has at least ONE) and look around, you'll see a lot of people with point and shoot or cell phone cameras and also a LOT of people with interchangeable lens cameras. And you almost NEVER see anything other than the kit lens on one of those ILCs. I hang out on photo forums some and, of course, everybody has a fair amount of gear. But for most consumers it just doesn't work that way.

The Pentax K5 does sound nice, but I'd never haul it around, even though its not that big. I just find I can't shoot with a DSLR anymore, even a small one - I like live view and holding the camera in all kinds of weird positions and shooting at all kinds of weird angles. And even when I don't, having a permanent viewfinder almost always causes me to use it, even when I'd rather not. And now there are enough fast primes available for m43 that you can do REALLY well with a camera that will fit in a coat pocket (with anything other than a telephoto). I have an EPL3 that's not much bigger than an S90 other than the lens. And I can shoot with a 24mm equivalent at f2.0, a 50mm equivalent at f1.4, and a 90mm portrait lens at f1.8. And there are also lesser options at 28mm f2.5, 35mm f2.8, and 40mm f1.7 available. A small body and two extra primes is a MIGHTY small kit for what you can do with it....

-Ray

[mike p]

My wife "the artist" has a big high dollar Nikon SLR and I have a small point and shoot. Her Nikon is an incredible camera but 9 times out of ten we take the point an shoot as her camera is a real hassle to carry around even when you know your going to take pictures! The only time hers gets use is for her art projects. Unless your a pro or really "into" it I think the smaller the better. When talking carry guns, what's better the full sized colt govt. Md you leave home cause it's to big to carry comfortably or the less than adequate 380 that you can forget your wearing?

Mike

[pjmsj21]

I have been looking for an upgraded compact digital for several months now and would second Ray's recommendation for the Fuji x10. I have looked at the Canon S100 and the Olympus xz1 and the larger system cameras. The Fuji has received great reviews and according to many surpasses the G12. Hopefully my Santa has one reserved for me.

My personal opinion is that there are many people with way more high level equipment than skill in compositon, lighting etc. I applaud the original posters comment to also include dollars for taking one or more photography classes.

Pat Mc



Unless you're the type who will buy the camera with a kit zoom lens and never buy another lens and never remove the one that came with the camera. In which case, you can do better with one of the nicer compacts out there with a faster zoom. The Olympus XZ1 maintains an aperture of f1.8 to f2.4 throughout its zoom range - even with a smaller sensor that's gonna give you better low light handling than an m43 cam with the zoom lens. The brand new Fuji X10 has nearly as fast a lens and a much nicer (if only slightly larger) sensor and it just raised the bar for these high end compacts by quite a bit - I have one and its an amazing travel or biking/hiking camera when I don't even want to carry my m43 gear. Or, if you're a real hard core and want a great camera with a single lens and fixed focal length (sort of the camera equivalent of a single speed, almost a fixed gear) - I personally have two of these.


-Ray

[johnnymossville]

One other nice thing about M4/3 format is that you can easily use pretty much any lens ever made for any camera since the beginning of time. Mirrorless cameras are great at this. Old Manual Leica, C-Mount, Security Camera Lenses, Canon, Nikon, Olympus Zuikos, you name it they work well with a cheap adapter ring. Warning though, Lens buying is addictive.

I love old Canon Lenses on my GH2. Relatively Cheap and superb quality.

[Wayne77]

A few other thoughts:

We're in a cycling forum here. Obviously the "what kind of bike to get" question comes up in OT topics in other non cycling forums. Some will say just go to Target and spend $200, while some may say that one should spend at least $1000 or more. The same applies here. It's easy to say just get a point and shoot camera if the person saying it never needs to do more than just that..point and shoot.

*If you want a camera handy "just in case" something comes up when you're going places, get a point and shoot or small m4/3 camera. As others have said, 9 times out of 10 the DSLR will be left at home for things like this. The best camera is the one you have with you.

*If you're passionate about the idea of going out to take photos as an experience unto itself, get a DSLR body and the 2 best lenses you can afford. A compact won't cut it in this case. Whether you're on the road and you want to go out and capture the soul of a city, or you want to go on a hike and capture some natural imagery, a good lens kit might be someting like a standard prime in the 20-35mm range (for APS-C), a zoom like the Tamron 17-50 f/2.8, and when/if you can afford it, spend the dough on a fast/wide aperture telezoom for sports or photos like those awesome narrow depth of field examples like Ergott posted.

I think many who complain about leaving a DSLR at home never bought a good bag to carry it in to begin with. Don't get one of those strap over the shoulder sqaurish thngs. Get something that can be worn backpack style, sling style, etc. One I can't recommend highly enough is the Kata 3n1 series:

http://www.kata-bags.com/product/8374.49848.108474.0.0/KT%2BD-3N1-20/_/3N1-20_for_DSLR_wmid-range_zoom_lens%2B_3-4_lenses%2Bflash

Oh yeah, one other point (I apologize if someone's already made this point) is that if you want to shoot sports, especially indoors, a compact camera or even a micro 4/3 camera isn't going to cut it. They use an auto focus system that will never do a good job at focus tracking for subjects moving toward or away from you. You can compensate for this somewhat by stopping down the lens to a smaller aperture but then you loose the ability to isolate the subject against a burred background (some may not care about this). Also, stopping down either results in slower shutter speed (blurry subjects / harder to stop action) or increased ISO (more noise and lost detail in the image).

Just a few thoughts from an amateur..plenty others here who REALLY know what they're talking about...

[rugbysecondrow]

Thanks for all the guidance. I spent quite a bit of time at a camera shop, multiple visits and I decided on the Sony NEX 5N, with two lenses and two on hour tutoring sessions with an expert/instructor. It think this camera will meet her needs well and serve us well for the long term.

Follow up questions, is there a software program that is best for editing and processing?

Thanks,

Paul

[indyrider]

From other 5N user experiences, I gather you have made a good choice...Enjoy the picture making machine :beer:

[wc1934]

I too was gift shopping for a camera, yet I know nothing about them - came across this link - found it informative - hope it helps.

http://thediscerningphotographer.com/2011/08/28/nikon-d5100-vs-canon-rebel-t3i-camera-review/

[alancw3]

i found this website useful that was previously recommended on the same typic:

http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/recommended-cameras.htm

[Trirunt]

Wayne 77, that bag is really cool! That may change the way I use my SLR.

[tv_vt]

Not to hijack this thread, and I know there have been others on this topic, but I'm thinking of getting my wife a Canon Elph 300 HD for a super-small biking-hiking camera. Could use a little more feedback from users out there.

And about this m4/3 format - how do you know which cameras are in that format? How small are they compared to the wafer-thin Elph series?

Thanks for any help!

Thom

[SupremeOverload]

Just ordered the G12 ($379) for my bride based on what I read hear!

Thanks for the great info.

[modernfuturist]

Just got a Canon S95 on clearance from Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003ZSHNGS/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?t=slicinc-20&tag=slicinc-20&ie=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER) ... from what I hear, it's a great pocketable camera.

[SEABREEZE]

Canon G12

Ergott tells no lies, the G12 or for a little less $ the S95.. Both Canon products

Amazon has S95 on sale today only for $229. new

Either would be great for the Mrs.

[SEABREEZE]

Thanks for all the guidance. I spent quite a bit of time at a camera shop, multiple visits and I decided on the Sony NEX 5N, with two lenses and two on hour tutoring sessions with an expert/instructor. It think this camera will meet her needs well and serve us well for the long term.

Follow up questions, is there a software program that is best for editing and processing?

Thanks,

Paul


Picasa is free , or you could buy Light Room 3 or Photo shop.. Learning cure on these two, and not much on Picasa

[fatallightning]

Thanks for all the guidance. I spent quite a bit of time at a camera shop, multiple visits and I decided on the Sony NEX 5N, with two lenses and two on hour tutoring sessions with an expert/instructor. It think this camera will meet her needs well and serve us well for the long term.

Follow up questions, is there a software program that is best for editing and processing?

Thanks,

Paul
I have a nex3 as my walkabout cam. I have a full nikon kit. Pro body, 2.8 zooms, primes, external flashes etc. But dammit, it's annoying to carry when I'm not out for the express purpose of shooting. The Nex sensors have awesome high ISO performance, which helps the slowish lenses available, nice movie performance, low shutter lag and nice picture styles for the neophyte. I have a nikon lens adapter if I feel like being fancy, but for the most part I leave the kit lens on, and snap away. Not quite pocketable, but pursable for the ladies.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v33/fatallightning/newcam.jpg

on top of a droid X
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v33/fatallightning/DSC_7102.jpg

[johnnymossville]

great choice on the Sony, particularly for it's size, and for still photography.

[fatallightning]

Yep, I'd say the only niggle for me, is the slower AF compared to a DSLR. But that's true of every mirrorless contrast based focus system. I wish it had a nice OVF, but the size and cost would go up, and for the intended customer, they want and use the screen, not the OVF. I would have gotten the Fuji X10, but the small sensor, and resulting hit in high ISO performance, and more importantly, DOF control, was a deal breaker. Which is a shame, because I LOVE the form factor and design.

[veloduffer]

Not to hijack this thread, and I know there have been others on this topic, but I'm thinking of getting my wife a Canon Elph 300 HD for a super-small biking-hiking camera. Could use a little more feedback from users out there.

And about this m4/3 format - how do you know which cameras are in that format? How small are they compared to the wafer-thin Elph series?

Thanks for any help!

Thom


The Elph camera is a good one, but for a little more, I'd spring for the S95 with relatively the same size.

m4/3 format was developed by Panasonic and Olympus, whose lenses are interchangeable. Sony has its mirrorless system, as does Nikon, but their lenses are only compatible with their cameras. You can get adapters to use DSLR lenses on these bodies.

The advantage of the m4/3 is a bigger sensor over point & shoot cameras, which will produce better high ISO/low light photos (ie, less noise). The problem that I've found with the mirrorless, is that their autofocus is low light is slower and less accurate than a DSLR. It is smaller than a DSLR, but not pocketable unless you use the pancake (small prime) lense and have large pockets.

Also, the smaller form of the m4/3 means smaller buttons and more menu-driven controls. If you have "fat fingers", it's more difficult to operate (although Panasonic cameras have touch screen menus). With a DSLR, there are more buttons and knobs/switches that are easier and faster to use to change settings (eg white balance, ISO, color control).

I sold my Olympus E-PL2 after trying to photograph a wedding. It worked well for most things, but not for low light action. If I'm going to have to carry an external flash and extra lenses, I would rather use a DSLR - more versatile and better performance. I used the money from the Olympus sale to get a Nikon D5100, which was a great camera for my beach vacation. It's not much bigger than the G12 and Panasonic G2, and very versatile. (Note: I am already invested in Nikon gear with other bodies and lenses, so it was easier to commit to another DSLR. The D5100 is much smaller than my D7000 and D3).