Campy compatibility - how important?

[Plum Hill]

I'm getting ready to build up a new HSG frameset. Campy is my choice, but can't decide if I should go 10 or 11 speed.

Current bikes are one 9 speed and one 10 speed. If I go with 11 speed, then that's another chain to stock and new technology, not to mention hood feel, that I have to deal with.
I'd have modern technology, but don't have a need for a 12 tooth cog, even with a 50 chainring.
If I stick with 10 speed, will parts availability be a future issue?

So, choices would be between 2011 Chorus group or piecing together a Record 10 speed (would really like a 36-50 compact).

Opinions?

[oldpotatoe]

I'm getting ready to build up a new HSG frameset. Campy is my choice, but can't decide if I should go 10 or 11 speed.

Current bikes are one 9 speed and one 10 speed. If I go with 11 speed, then that's another chain to stock and new technology, not to mention hood feel, that I have to deal with.
I'd have modern technology, but don't have a need for a 12 tooth cog, even with a 50 chainring.
If I stick with 10 speed, will parts availability be a future issue?

So, choices would be between 2011 Chorus group or piecing together a Record 10 speed (would really like a 36-50 compact).

Opinions?

Campagnolo still makes 8s cogsets(last made about 1997/8) so I don't think 10s 'stuff' will be an issue. BUT I'd get Chorus 11s..nice stuff, great lever shape, more simple shifter innards.

[Litespeed_Mike]

If you have C-9 and C-10, I'd recommend sticking with 10speed.

You likely already know that Campagnolo shifters are infinitely rebuildable (within practical limits).

Googling around, it looks like 11speed mechs. work just fine with 10 speed shifters. Forums and Zinn have some detailed experience with 10/11 speed crankset mismatching, my personal take is that "it depends" on how you push the gears over. [1]

My experience: I switched to Campagnolo in 2005 and never looked back. Front/rear mechs have come and go, but I still use and RACE on 2002 Chorus alloy and 2005 Record shifters. I race often (50+/year) and hard (UCI elite for CX). Main reason for staying Campy 10 is that I'm cheap and I prefer stuff that lasts over the new hot setup that comes and goes.

If you want the new style shifter, I recommend picking up the 2009/10 Centaur 10 ultra shift levers [1]. They are becoming more rare, but the internals are superior to the 2011/12 Powershift.

[1] There's a wealth of forum information out there, but here's one example from Zinn:
http://velonews.competitor.com/2009/09/bikes-and-tech/technical-faq/technical-faq-campy-11-speed-and-10-speed-parts-compatibility_100606

And there's a flip side too of 10/11 crank compatibility:
http://velonews.competitor.com/2008/12/bikes-and-tech/technical-qa-with-lennard-zinn-electric-shifting-and-eclectic-componentry_86055

[2] Although now officially an endangered species in the wild, you can find 2009/10 Centaur Ultra Shift levers on the forum and with some online retailers like Total Cycling. http://totalcycling.com/index.php/product/parts_accessories/shift_levers_road/EP_CENTAUR_9_CA.html

[christian]

I love C10, so I would stick with that. I'm sure 11 is nice, but 10 just works works works.

[Dave]

You'll need to deal with the brake hood situation unless you dig up some pre-2009 shifters. They all changed in 2009.

The new hoods are more comfortable for the majority of users, but the reach is 3-5mm longer depending on your bars and how you choose to mount the levers.

There should be no problem with 10 speed parts availabilty, but it will be limited to the the Centaur and Veloce level parts.

As for the shifters being rebuildable, that's changed. Campy no longer sells individual small parts for the 2009+ shifters.

[pavel]

I still think campy 10 is the best mechanical group out there, and I think chain and cog wear is a bigger issue with the thinner 11 speed group.

[AngryScientist]

my opinion is just go 11-speed. its a new bike, hang new parts on it. if you're a smart buyer, 11-sp consumables arent really that expensive, and they are easy to find.

also, how often do you really need consumables anyway? maybe a chain or two per year, a cogset every few years, is that really a big enough deal to go scrounging for old 10-sp stuff?

[oldpotatoe]

I still think campy 10 is the best mechanical group out there, and I think chain and cog wear is a bigger issue with the thinner 11 speed group.


Not a 11s fanboy just for 11s but I overhaul dozens of ERGO levers every year. Not having to do that is a big plus, IMHO. 11s chains seem to wear like 10s chains but I would like to see Athena or Centaur 11s cogsets. BUT cog wear seems about the same also. Like the shape. I say 'go to eleven'.

[Plum Hill]

When I bought my last computer I got Vista. So much for the latest and greatest.

So, the 11 speed levers are non-rebuildable? What about G-springs, ratchets, et al?

I assume shifter body length is the reason for the longer reach. That may present a minor issue, as my Ottrott had a 55TT and the HSG is 55.6; the stem hasn't been purchased yet (phew!).

I should have hopped on that Chorus 11-equipped Pinarello a few weeks back.

Still interested in other opinions.

[thwart]

3-5 mm... is no big deal.

For a frame of reference, a pencil eraser is approximately 6 mm across.

[Dave]

When
So, the 11 speed levers are non-rebuildable? What about G-springs, ratchets, et al? Still interested in other opinions.

The new ultrashift levers are actually much easier to take apart and reassemble than the previous design. The new design has no parts that have the heavy contact pressure like the g-springs, so they are expected to last longer. Perhaps a Campy dealer can obtain the single odd part for a repair, but officially, you have to buy a major repair assembly if an internal part breaks. I only paid about $110 for a right side assembly, needed to repair a wreck damaged lever. I snapped the whole top off the ergo body. I later used the internals from the wreck damaged lever to convert a Centaur shifter to 11 speed.

Here's an old posting of mine, that shows the ultrashift innards.

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/campagnolo/inside-2009-ergopwer-154068.html

[oldpotatoe]

When I bought my last computer I got Vista. So much for the latest and greatest.

So, the 11 speed levers are non-rebuildable? What about G-springs, ratchets, et al?

I assume shifter body length is the reason for the longer reach. That may present a minor issue, as my Ottrott had a 55TT and the HSG is 55.6; the stem hasn't been purchased yet (phew!).

I should have hopped on that Chorus 11-equipped Pinarello a few weeks back.

Still interested in other opinions.


There are no g springs, no ratchets, no spring carriers. Completely different innards on all levers starting in 2009.

Tops of the lever is longer but the shift lever is closer to the handlebars.

I have some innards from broken levers as well and I have obtained a few obscure shifter innard parts from Campagnolo, NA. Being a proshop, and having the 'tattoo', probably doesn't hurt.

The takeapart and re-assmbly is pretty easy(older are easy also)except for the shift lever centering spring, which can be a bitch to get into the slot in the lever. The back of the lever is a snap tho, just gotta keep it all in proper order. And not drop the teeny, tiny ball bearings on the end of the springs in the shift disc(same size as the sandwich bearings in a brake caliper, BTW). .

[Plum Hill]

There are no g springs, no ratchets, no spring carriers. Completely different innards on all levers starting in 2009.



Does that mean the new levers don't require a rebuild at 8-10K miles like the old ones?

[oldpotatoe]

Does that mean the new levers don't require a rebuild at 8-10K miles like the old ones?

That's exactly what it means. These levers have been around for over 3 years and I have repaired some that have things broken, like a thumb button or shift lever/centering spring but none because the shifting got soft or crappy ala broken shift spring or spring carrier.

[prometheus20]

I've ridden Campy 8, 9, and 10 speed gruppos. The levers in my experience go a lot longer before needing a rebuild than what Campy recommends. Since they are still making 10sp groups, it will be a long time before they stop making parts. And even then, in the age of Ebay and other internet sources, you can find plenty of 8sp stuff NIB, so there should be no worries about 10 speed for a long timer. The Centaur stuff is reliable, light enough, and plenty durable. I'd go with that before 11speed, which is expensive, less durable, and best left for racing applications.

[ultraman6970]

+1 with prometheus.

Doubt 10 speed will disappear at all from campy line out? why? they needed a few years to drawn a line between their expensive stuff and the regular stuff everybody can use. IMO makes sense too because before auto sponsored racers stock themselves with veloce shifters because were less expensive and were giving u the same feel and functionality than record or chorus. That ended maybe 5 years ago when scape was implemented in the low end campy line up.

Hope campagnolo doesnt mess up again with the cassette spine-line and FH body because that could be a big problem for everybody.

[fogrider]

When I bought my last computer I got Vista. So much for the latest and greatest.

So, the 11 speed levers are non-rebuildable? What about G-springs, ratchets, et al?

I assume shifter body length is the reason for the longer reach. That may present a minor issue, as my Ottrott had a 55TT and the HSG is 55.6; the stem hasn't been purchased yet (phew!).

I should have hopped on that Chorus 11-equipped Pinarello a few weeks back.

Still interested in other opinions.
check out the rebuild on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Nr35wCxlFs

btw, windows 7 is pretty good.

[harryblack]

Potato: if pure long-term durability is one's goal, do you have any thoughts on Ultra-Shift versus Power Shift (or even Escape)? Is it correct that the Power Shift springs don't (or are unlikely to) need eventual replacement or is it that there fewer hard riders on PS (Escape)? Thanks for any insight!

Not a 11s fanboy just for 11s but I overhaul dozens of ERGO levers every year. Not having to do that is a big plus, IMHO. 11s chains seem to wear like 10s chains but I would like to see Athena or Centaur 11s cogsets. BUT cog wear seems about the same also. Like the shape. I say 'go to eleven'.

[oldpotatoe]

Potato: if pure long-term durability is one's goal, do you have any thoughts on Ultra-Shift versus Power Shift (or even Escape)? Is it correct that the Power Shift springs don't (or are unlikely to) need eventual replacement or is it that there fewer hard riders on PS (Escape)? Thanks for any insight!

No 'springs' in the sense of shift springs for Powershift or Xenon based stuff(sometimes referred to as 'Escape"). Innards for both completely difference, no 'shift springs' to break or wear out. I think the RH PS shifter will last as long as Ultra shift ones.