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  #1  
Old 07-02-2011, 01:34 AM
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FixedNotBroken FixedNotBroken is offline
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2011 Cervelo R3/2011 Campy Record 11 Build Issues

I had the LBS here start the build on my new 2011 R3..everything was going smoothly until he got to the cranks. The adapters were inserted and when he went to install the cranks, they wouldn't go together..he put a light in there and there was a gap so he called a few other shops who carried Cervelo's because they only carry Colnago, Cannondale, Serotta's, Gunnar's, etc..the people at the other shop said that there is an adapter for Campy along with Shimano as well. The guy building my bike was able to get a part number for the Campy adapter along with the part number from Cervelo. He seems to think that Campy manufactures the part and if this is so, he knows someone that works at Campy USA so it will be a quick find but if not, we'll contact Cervelo and see what we can do..does anyone know of this? Does anyone by chance have this adapter? I wasn't aware of it whatsoever! All I was aware of was the BB30 adapter cups which are new I believe. If anyone (OldPotatoe) has this..or has any information regarding this let me know! I am sure someone will have this somewhere.

Also..does anyone know if this adapter will change the performance of the crank? Just curious..

Last edited by FixedNotBroken; 07-02-2011 at 01:37 AM.
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  #2  
Old 07-02-2011, 07:22 AM
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oldpotatoe oldpotatoe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FixedNotBroken
I had the LBS here start the build on my new 2011 R3..everything was going smoothly until he got to the cranks. The adapters were inserted and when he went to install the cranks, they wouldn't go together..he put a light in there and there was a gap so he called a few other shops who carried Cervelo's because they only carry Colnago, Cannondale, Serotta's, Gunnar's, etc..the people at the other shop said that there is an adapter for Campy along with Shimano as well. The guy building my bike was able to get a part number for the Campy adapter along with the part number from Cervelo. He seems to think that Campy manufactures the part and if this is so, he knows someone that works at Campy USA so it will be a quick find but if not, we'll contact Cervelo and see what we can do..does anyone know of this? Does anyone by chance have this adapter? I wasn't aware of it whatsoever! All I was aware of was the BB30 adapter cups which are new I believe. If anyone (OldPotatoe) has this..or has any information regarding this let me know! I am sure someone will have this somewhere.

Also..does anyone know if this adapter will change the performance of the crank? Just curious..
Is this a pressfit BB30 bottom bracket? Or is a BB Right BB? If the later, Cervelo has the adapter, if the former or just BB30, then Campagnolo does make a cupset for either BB30(BB30by 42) or press fit BB30(BB30 by 46).

Simple..no it's not. Cervelo, having aquired Rotor crank are making some frames that are taking this thing only.
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  #3  
Old 07-02-2011, 09:34 AM
lhuerta lhuerta is offline
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BBRight adapter cups are available from Cervelo only. If this is a new frame then the correct adapter cups should have been supplied to you. Call Cervelo and have them send you the cups. The bigger question is why your "mechanic" didn't already know that a BBRight equipped Cervelo was going to need adapter cups for your Campy set-up?? Also be sure to use Loctite 641 or 609, together with Loctite primer when installing the adapters, otherwise you will have loose and creaking cups after only a few rides. Cervelo unfortunately has yet to issue a wider directive to dealers and consumers on this issue but plenty of folks have verified this issue on the Cervelo forum.
Lou
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  #4  
Old 07-02-2011, 10:17 AM
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FixedNotBroken FixedNotBroken is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lhuerta
BBRight adapter cups are available from Cervelo only. If this is a new frame then the correct adapter cups should have been supplied to you. Call Cervelo and have them send you the cups. The bigger question is why your "mechanic" didn't already know that a BBRight equipped Cervelo was going to need adapter cups for your Campy set-up?? Also be sure to use Loctite 641 or 609, together with Loctite primer when installing the adapters, otherwise you will have loose and creaking cups after only a few rides. Cervelo unfortunately has yet to issue a wider directive to dealers and consumers on this issue but plenty of folks have verified this issue on the Cervelo forum.
Lou
He's aware of the Loctite. The Record group came with the BB30 cups, are these not the right ones.
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  #5  
Old 07-02-2011, 11:35 AM
Kontact Kontact is offline
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In our experience as a Cervelo dealer, Cervelo does not know what they're talking about in regards to adapting their own BBright system.

BBright is a BB30 shell that is 11mm longer on the non drive side. The cranks made for it are BB30 cranks with a longer spindle and flatter NDS crank arm.


Since the right side is BB30 width and the left side is outboard bearing width, an adapter is certainly possible for 24mm spindle outboard bearing cranks. But despite repeated calls to Cervelo and Q (who they claim have these parts), there aren't any adapter cups that do the job.

So when we need to install long crank arms that aren't available in BBright, we take a normal nylon Shimano to BB30 adapter from Wheels Manufacturing and turn the left cup down to almost nothing on the lathe. This is how they start:

And this is what the NDS cup looks like (this one is actually still a little thick:


The problem is that no one makes an adapter of this type for Campy, so you can't turn one down.

What they do make is adapters that replace the bearing with a cup that accepts the Campy bearing. BB86:

BB30:

Campy makes these for BB30 and BB86, but the BBright NDS is actually 45mm from centerline (http://www.bbright.net/bbrightdrawings.pdf), so the 86 adapter is 2mm too wide. Trek's BB90 Ultratorque adapters are also 45mm from centerline on the NDS, but use a 37mm outside diameter rather than the BB30 and BB86 41mm OD, so they won't press into the frame.

Upshot: Your best bet is to try a Campy BB30 adapter on the Drive side with a Campy BB86 adapter on the NDS. The problem is that the BB86 adapter is going to stick out 2mm further than it should (because it is designed for a 43mm centerline, not 45), so you'll have to find a way of reducing the total spindle spacers by 2mm.

If that's possible, it should work. If there aren't 2mm of spacers to get rid of, maybe a machinist can somehow reduce one or both of the adapter cups by a total of 2mm. If some of that comes off the DS, make sure you maintain enough chainring clearance.

Otherwise, have a metal ring lathe turned that goes between the Trek BB90 Campy adapter and the BBright bearing shell, then use the Campy BB30 on the DS. I would red Loctite this ring to the adapter cups so you can press it out of the frame someday. BB90 is very different than BB30 and BB86, so I have my doubts how well this would work. I haven't been able to find blueprints for BB90 to see how bad it would be, but the ring would be 2mm at the thickest (37mm to 41mm).


I hope that all made sense. Ask if I need to clarify.

Last edited by Kontact; 07-02-2011 at 11:50 AM.
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  #6  
Old 07-02-2011, 11:46 AM
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FixedNotBroken FixedNotBroken is offline
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Can you call me?
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  #7  
Old 07-02-2011, 11:51 AM
Kontact Kontact is offline
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I guess. PM me a number.
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  #8  
Old 07-02-2011, 03:23 PM
lhuerta lhuerta is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FixedNotBroken
He's aware of the Loctite. The Record group came with the BB30 cups, are these not the right ones.

Just to be clear, your Record group has ultra torque cranks, yes?? If so then the BB30 cups will not work on your BBRight shell. As I indicated, the solution is quite easy, simply call Cervelo and get BBRight Campy adapter cups (manufactured by Campagnolo, but distributed ONLY by Cervelo), pop in the cups using Loctite, install cranks, ride bike. There is no need to engage in any of the complicated workarounds and retrofits listed above. This is all clearly explained on BBright.net

PM if u have specific questions.
Lou

Last edited by lhuerta; 07-02-2011 at 07:46 PM.
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  #9  
Old 07-02-2011, 04:27 PM
Kontact Kontact is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lhuerta
Just to be clear, your Record group has ultra torque cranks, yes?? If so then the BB30 cups will not work on your BBRight shell. As I indicated. The solution is quite easy, simply call Cervelo and get BBRight Campy adapter cups (manufactured by Campagnolo, but distributed ONLY by Cervelo), pop in the cups using Loctite, install cranks, ride bike. There is no need to engage in any of the complicated workarounds and retrofits listed above. This is all clearly explained on BBright.net

PM if u have specific questions.
Lou
We have never been able to get such a thing from Cervelo. We just get a confused run around.

But if they have it, that's the right answer.


Update: This guy got the right parts, obviously:

http://weightweenies.starbike.com/fo...p?f=10&t=80217

Last edited by Kontact; 07-02-2011 at 04:35 PM.
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  #10  
Old 07-02-2011, 06:31 PM
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FixedNotBroken FixedNotBroken is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kontact
We have never been able to get such a thing from Cervelo. We just get a confused run around.

But if they have it, that's the right answer.


Update: This guy got the right parts, obviously:

http://weightweenies.starbike.com/fo...p?f=10&t=80217
That is Lou's bike (other poster above). Problem figured out. Thanks for all of your help!
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  #11  
Old 07-03-2011, 07:37 AM
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oldpotatoe oldpotatoe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kontact
In our experience as a Cervelo dealer, Cervelo does not know what they're talking about in regards to adapting their own BBright system.

BBright is a BB30 shell that is 11mm longer on the non drive side. The cranks made for it are BB30 cranks with a longer spindle and flatter NDS crank arm.


Since the right side is BB30 width and the left side is outboard bearing width, an adapter is certainly possible for 24mm spindle outboard bearing cranks. But despite repeated calls to Cervelo and Q (who they claim have these parts), there aren't any adapter cups that do the job.

So when we need to install long crank arms that aren't available in BBright, we take a normal nylon Shimano to BB30 adapter from Wheels Manufacturing and turn the left cup down to almost nothing on the lathe. This is how they start:

And this is what the NDS cup looks like (this one is actually still a little thick:


The problem is that no one makes an adapter of this type for Campy, so you can't turn one down.

What they do make is adapters that replace the bearing with a cup that accepts the Campy bearing. BB86:

BB30:

Campy makes these for BB30 and BB86, but the BBright NDS is actually 45mm from centerline (http://www.bbright.net/bbrightdrawings.pdf), so the 86 adapter is 2mm too wide. Trek's BB90 Ultratorque adapters are also 45mm from centerline on the NDS, but use a 37mm outside diameter rather than the BB30 and BB86 41mm OD, so they won't press into the frame.

Upshot: Your best bet is to try a Campy BB30 adapter on the Drive side with a Campy BB86 adapter on the NDS. The problem is that the BB86 adapter is going to stick out 2mm further than it should (because it is designed for a 43mm centerline, not 45), so you'll have to find a way of reducing the total spindle spacers by 2mm.

If that's possible, it should work. If there aren't 2mm of spacers to get rid of, maybe a machinist can somehow reduce one or both of the adapter cups by a total of 2mm. If some of that comes off the DS, make sure you maintain enough chainring clearance.

Otherwise, have a metal ring lathe turned that goes between the Trek BB90 Campy adapter and the BBright bearing shell, then use the Campy BB30 on the DS. I would red Loctite this ring to the adapter cups so you can press it out of the frame someday. BB90 is very different than BB30 and BB86, so I have my doubts how well this would work. I haven't been able to find blueprints for BB90 to see how bad it would be, but the ring would be 2mm at the thickest (37mm to 41mm).


I hope that all made sense. Ask if I need to clarify.
I guess this begs the question, why on earth is cervelo designing such a thing? Do they really think Rotor cranks and this frame/BB design design is the epitome of BB/crank design(aoing with a Look carbon ashtabula crank)?

This along with some other recalls and marketing/design decisions makes me think they are adrift.

This design is silly.
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  #12  
Old 07-03-2011, 09:32 AM
Kontact Kontact is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldpotatoe
I guess this begs the question, why on earth is cervelo designing such a thing? Do they really think Rotor cranks and this frame/BB design design is the epitome of BB/crank design(aoing with a Look carbon ashtabula crank)?

This along with some other recalls and marketing/design decisions makes me think they are adrift.

This design is silly.
Because it makes the BB stiffer, and Rotor, SRAM and FSA are making specific cranks for it - which are simply BB30 cranks with longer spindles and a shallower NDS arm.

Campy is making a specific adapter for it, and Shimano doesn't support either BB30, BB86 or BBright, so that makes BBright no less stupid than the other two.


I'm not much of a Cervelo fan, but the design seems to work and hasn't been plagued with the problems of BB90, and gives more heel clearance than BB86, so I'm not sure why it is any sillier than tapered steerer tubes or 31.8 bars.
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  #13  
Old 07-03-2011, 09:46 AM
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Kontact,

What is a huge Cervelo turn-off is the lack of support/response you seemed to have received as a Cervelo dealer (no slight to you). Puts the customer in no-man's land.
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  #14  
Old 07-03-2011, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FixedNotBroken
He's aware of the Loctite. The Record group came with the BB30 cups, are these not the right ones.
Campy has no idea which bike you are putting their gear on. Up to the owner/shop to insure the correct cups are ordered.
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  #15  
Old 07-03-2011, 03:13 PM
Idris Icabod Idris Icabod is offline
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My friend just had a similar headache trying to get Campy on a Trek. The dealer he got the bike from had no ideas about adapters. He had to call another shop and they told him what he needed but rather bizarrely he gave that information to the initial shop so they could finish the job. I would have driven the thing down to the shop that has a clue. I also bet that they didn't locktite the cup in to place so I guess he will be dealing with the noise soon. Zinn's 2nd edition book actually has a few pages on BB30/press in BB and Campagnolo I noticed whilst browsing in Barnes and Noble.
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