Bogus ad

[cpg]

I'm looking at an ad for the Time VXRS frame and fork. One of the unique but not new as some might think (actually it was done at least 50 years ago) is what they call the Translink seat tube. The ad copy reads "The integrated seat tube and seatpost increase lateral rigidity, for improved power transfer while saving 40 grams." I can see the weight savings and that's a cool idea. What I find bogus is the notion of increased lateral rigidity. It's a lever sticking out there and subject to the same forces as a normal seatpost. The only way I see it as being more rigid would be if the typical seatpost arrangement is moving around inside the seat tube. But that doesn't occur so where's the increase in rigidity? Anyway, I'm not knocking the frame. It seems pretty groovy to me but why must the bike biz continue coming up with this bogus stuff? Why use bad science to justify a feature when the feature's existance is really only about product differentiation?

Curt

[manet]

is it splined for more surface area?

[cpg]

No. The seat tube just continues on up and is the seat post too. That's where the weight savings occurs. There's no overlap of material. Think seat post inside the seat tube is eliminated.

Curt

[sspielman]

Originally Posted by cpg

No. The seat tube just continues on up and is the seat post too. That's where the weight savings occurs. There's no overlap of material. Think seat post inside the seat tube is eliminated.

Curt

The translink (or extended seattube) continues up to within a max. of 3 cm of the the seat rails. There is a seatpost that is inside of the translink tube...but the material thickness of this internal seatpost is much less than a normal seatpost. My understanding of the arrangement is that the combined strength of these two tubes is greater than that of a normal carbon seatpost at the same extension...thus the claims of increased rigidity. The weight savings are easily measured, but they certainly are minimal.

[Climb01742]

there is also a smaller "collar" and the hardware that secures the saddle rails is light but effective. this isn't an "oh my god" improvement but a small neat thing. to answer your original question, i'd guess someone at the client wanted as many points of difference as possible, even if they were, well, stretched a bit. it's actually a pretty neat set-up. and it's "real" benefit (only?) is saving a few grams. to me, it's clear -- and kinda cool -- that time has just thought through every part of the bike and tried to make improvements, even small ones, where they could.

[sspielman]

Another interesting aspect of the design is that the internal seatpost is 27.2 mm in diameter. So, if for whatever reason the translink is cut too short, a regular seatpost can be substituted for extensions greater than 3 cm....OR, you can do what Tom Boonen does with his VXRS(s)...he has had the mechanics install a regular carbon seatpost inside the translink tube for even greater stiffness and strength. (He also has a specially made VXR for the Classics with regular seatstays as opposed to the wishbone and an aluminum steerer, but that is another story)

[stevep]

it provides 2 separate thicknesses of carbon up to just below the saddle junction. the internal " post " is a 27.2 like a regular post. it would be stiffer than a single carbon post no doubt...especially when you add the leverage of a conventional carbon post at the seat collar.
no question its stiffer... maybe not whoa this bike is much stiffer but it is certainly incrementally stiffer

[dbrk]

Originally Posted by sspielman

......he has had the mechanics install a regular carbon seatpost inside the translink tube for even greater stiffness and strength.

I really don't get this, that is, who really needs a stiffer, stronger seatpost? Have seatposts been robbing riders of power? Stiffer seatposts create some edge? Is this some psychic placebo? (n.b., placebos work) Is this meant to create an inner edge because outer reality looks, well, like nothing more happens because of the stiffer post. I am more than incredulous. So I think I'm entirely with Curt: this is bogus. That it is a way of finding just one more thing to say is, as Climb notes, true. That it is neat or not, honestly, I don't care because the design just doesn't interest me: it looks too much like a gimmick, not an innovation of _quality_ that makes a _real_ difference. That it seems like another contrivance to make OUR race bike better than your race bike seems like the typical, unmistakeable marketing of an industry that will say anything to make a given product "better". What this seatpost does to me is fuel my already overly cynical belief that we are being sold (yet another) bill of goods.

dbrk

[Climb01742]

for something like roubiax, would they also add some more of the dampening "vibraser"?

[sspielman]

Originally Posted by dbrk

I really don't get this, that is, who really needs a stiffer, stronger seatpost? Have seatposts been robbing riders of power? Stiffer seatposts create some edge? Is this some psychic placebo? (n.b., placebos work) Is this meant to create an inner edge because outer reality looks, well, like nothing more happens because of the stiffer post. I am more than incredulous. So I think I'm entirely with Curt: this is bogus. That it is a way of finding just one more thing to say is, as Climb notes, true. That it is neat or not, honestly, I don't care because the design just doesn't interest me: it looks too much like a gimmick, not an innovation of _quality_ that makes a _real_ difference. That it seems like another contrivance to make OUR race bike better than your race bike seems like the typical, unmistakeable marketing of an industry that will say anything to make a given product "better". What this seatpost does to me is fuel my already overly cynical belief that we are being sold (yet another) bill of goods.

dbrk

I don't know...but if I thought for one minute that it would make me ride like Boonen, I would shove two seatposts in there!

[BumbleBeeDave]

First, a seatpost may shift more within the seat tube more than you think. I thought my stem/bars combo was pretty stiff on my old vitus--until I got my new Legend with Zepp XL bars & stem--Whoa! The difference was obvious. So no matter how tight you have it clamped, there may be more shifting between the two pieces as you pedal than you think. This idea may in truth improve stiffness more than you realize.

Second, "puffery" is an accepted part of advertising language and is no surprise. Advertisers always try to stretch as far as possible to try and make their product seem "new and improved." The line between honest language and deceptive advertising is often a very blurry one . . .

BBD

[Tom]

A bunch of Frenchmen are sitting around a table, thinking up stuff to sell. One says "I know, we put water in bottles and send it to America saying it is spring water from the Alps. We charge two dollars a bottle." One of the other ones says "You can't put water into a bottle and sell it! You can get water anywhere! Nobody will buy it!"

The first one takes a long drag on his cigarette. "They are Americans. They will buy anything."

[CNote]

Originally Posted by Tom

"They are Americans. They will buy anything."

That type of anti-capitalist rhetoric only comforts and aids the terrorists.

(ha!)

[stevep]

note that it may not appeal to some of you and a lot of the world is marketing blah no doubt.
giant, bh, wilier and a number of other professional teams for 06 use this style in their race bikes because: its lighter and its stiffer.
i believe that time is the only one that can actually be purchased.
i am the first to say it matters not much to me but these bikes are: lighter and stiffer.
boonen and the quickstep guys use vxr frames for the cobbled classics because these bikes are "less stiff " that their translink models and they feel that the comfort is more important that the rigidity. you see boonen on the vxrs ( translink ) ulteam in most other races including the stage races.
he races a vxr in the cobbled classics because there is more flex in the carbon post.
he races a totally one off vxr for paris roubaix this weekend. it is longer, a lot heavier ( 21 pounds. complete ). multiple extra carbon and super heavy wheels. he is riding the same bike this year that he won the race on last year...but it has been repainted with wc colors.... and it has a regular seatpost. it will only be used for this race then put away for next year.
easy to say bogus, bull****, fake... because you cant figure it out...but the subtle differences can add up for someone at the top of their game.
it seems to work for boonen anyway.

[sspielman]

I do know that my Time VXRS is HANDS DOWN the best bike that I have ever owned.