Cinelli "Pista" nightmare, need help!

[Remko]

Originally Posted by sales guy

heres a finned bb shell

Thanks for the imput, these bb are used on later bikes.

[Remko]

Originally Posted by ultraman6970

LOL

Well, you can use that frame to learn how to braze

I'm not cutting/brazing, will keep the form-factor. If I start cutting in it again it gets only worse I think.

[Drmojo]

Originally Posted by Remko

Hi, Nice to speak to you again. After contact with Ben Serotta I decided to keep the Serotta as it is. I'm restoring a Andy Gilmore now and just bought a Bauer Radball bike. Also won an auction for a hand painted Cinelli Vigorelli by Celeste Buyers, those are not the final wheels, I have a set of Campagnolo Pista wheels for that.

I had a lot of help from this forum in regards to the Serotta so I hope I will get some help in the possible Cinelli to.

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it is SICK!
what year was the Bauer made?

[11.4]

I had a Cinelli Pista Supercorse from 1973, matching an identical Strada from the same year, both through Spence Wolfe. The bottom bracket you have and the fork crown both are consistent. However, that was long before all the funky aero stuff so everything else on that frame is presumably a later hack. What's it worth? Not much. The head lugs had three holes descending in diameter on one side and a large round hole on the underside. So did the tangs on the inside of the fork blades. The lugs were pre-investment cast and looked similar to yours. Your seat lug looks like it's been cut apart to preserve the seat stay attachment (which looks original) and the front half of the lug was brazed lower on the seat tube. Maybe this was a way to fit a much bigger frame to a smaller rider (basically by turning the seat tube into an ISP and dropping the bars down to the fork crown to correspond with the lowered top tube); looks like the top tube is rather long for the effective size, but pretty hard to tell with all the bastardization going on.

You'll never get close to the original Cinelli with what you have, and the few frame components are worth something as part of a Cinelli but otherwise are rather unassuming. At least, that's how I'd look at it. I'd argue that it isn't even worth the restoration, given the damage that's obvious on the frame and bars. You might see if Nick will send you some photos of his, because it's one of the closest ones I know around. You might track it down further if you talk to Mark Petry as well, who last I heard had the US serial number records for Cinelli.

[e-RICHIE]

Originally Posted by sales guy

I've never seen an older Cinelli frame without the finned BB Shell. Or without the word Cinelli in it. I would be surprised if it's a Cinelli frame.

Those are fairly recent features, introduced late 1970s or so.
Before that, the shells were all Swiss made George Fisher parts.

[Remko]

Originally Posted by Drmojo

it is SICK!
what year was the Bauer made?

I love it to, it's 100% original, still has the wooden rims. It's from around 1950 I think. Bauer was a very respected bike builder.

[Remko]

Originally Posted by 11.4

I had a Cinelli Pista Supercorse from 1973, matching an identical Strada from the same year, both through Spence Wolfe. The bottom bracket you have and the fork crown both are consistent. However, that was long before all the funky aero stuff so everything else on that frame is presumably a later hack. What's it worth? Not much. The head lugs had three holes descending in diameter on one side and a large round hole on the underside. So did the tangs on the inside of the fork blades. The lugs were pre-investment cast and looked similar to yours. Your seat lug looks like it's been cut apart to preserve the seat stay attachment (which looks original) and the front half of the lug was brazed lower on the seat tube. Maybe this was a way to fit a much bigger frame to a smaller rider (basically by turning the seat tube into an ISP and dropping the bars down to the fork crown to correspond with the lowered top tube); looks like the top tube is rather long for the effective size, but pretty hard to tell with all the bastardization going on.

You'll never get close to the original Cinelli with what you have, and the few frame components are worth something as part of a Cinelli but otherwise are rather unassuming. At least, that's how I'd look at it. I'd argue that it isn't even worth the restoration, given the damage that's obvious on the frame and bars. You might see if Nick will send you some photos of his, because it's one of the closest ones I know around. You might track it down further if you talk to Mark Petry as well, who last I heard had the US serial number records for Cinelli.

Thanks for your imput, I know it has been chopped resent (I don't know by who), so stupid but it is what it is. I will work with it and see if I can make something out of it. I hope that Mark or Nick will comments to, I would love to know the original color.

[pbarry]

Have a '64 Pista, light yellow. I wouldn't get yours re-worked. It's seen enuf trauma already, but the "mods" aren't bad, and it will make a cool ride. Big respect for your rescue and restoration efforts.

[peanutgallery]

The fast back stays and seat clamp make sense, but what about the fork? All the forks on my cinellis were sloping and made to look more like a unicrown, or was that a 70's thing too?

[jumphigher]

Not to be too negative, but I agree with some of the others - that frame is essentially ruined. Definitely not worth investing much into. I hope you didnt pay a lot for it, OP.

[stien]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/57cm-chopped...p2047675.l2557

Maybe the questions should have been asked before bidding but since you have it now, rock it.

[paredown]

Originally Posted by nicrump

....

Mine has had several owners(I know all of them) and paint jobs over the years but the original owner claims the original paint was silver. In fact I've never seen a 60's Cinelli race bike that wasn't silver. ...

This didn't fit with what I remembered from BITD, so I asked the CR folks. There were a number of popular colors--I remember silver, and orange-red, a dusty rose color (there is a similar Porsche color)--even green. So someone posted the color list from the Ron Kitching catalogs. To be fair, this was one UK distributor (and apparently you could also order custom) but it does list Pista colors that I remember:

1958 catalogue:
Super Corsa and Pista: Ivory
Corsa: Green

1960 catalogue:
Corsa: Green or Silver
Super Corsa: White, Mars Red or Ivory
Pista: Ivory or Blue

1963 catalogue:
Riviera: Campani Red, Elba Blue, or Italian Green, all with white panels; Grecian White with Red, Blue, or Green panels
Corsa: Italia Green, Star Silver, or Metallic Red
Super Corsa: Grecian White, Mars Red, Ivory, or Olympic Yellow
Pista: Ivory or Powder Blue

1970 catalogue:
Corsa B: Metallic Red
Super Corsa: Star Silver
Pista: Ivory

So for a Pista--Ivory or Powder Blue? (I remember both of these on the track in Vancouver BITD) I do think that a lot of silver Cinellis came through Spence Wolfe in CA--and I think it would be great choice as well. Look for a good example though because it was slightly grayer/less metallic than some modern finishes...

[cmg]

try to get yours back to this.. google Cinelli Pista, images to see examples of others. Take those handle bars off the fork bridge, it ruins the look

[nicrump]

you know what? you are correct. i reached out to one of the guys in the mix, it was in fact ivory or what he called pale yellow. the last owner before me had it powder coated in as near as they could get yellow. some day i'd like to restore it. but i'm not looking forward to removing the powder.

Originally Posted by paredown

This didn't fit with what I remembered from BITD, so I asked the CR folks. There were a number of popular colors--I remember silver, and orange-red, a dusty rose color (there is a similar Porsche color)--even green. So someone posted the color list from the Ron Kitching catalogs. To be fair, this was one UK distributor (and apparently you could also order custom) but it does list Pista colors that I remember:


So for a Pista--Ivory or Powder Blue? (I remember both of these on the track in Vancouver BITD) I do think that a lot of silver Cinellis came through Spence Wolfe in CA--and I think it would be great choice as well. Look for a good example though because it was slightly grayer/less metallic than some modern finishes...

[11.4]

Back in the day I had all of silver, rose, the original orange, and a custom grey. Cinelli's rarely had very good paint and usually had lots of chrome bits -- head lugs, seat lug, fork crown, chain stay and fork tipping, and so on. The chrome wasn't very good either, so the stuff either got redone or painted over. And btw, many Cinelli track frames also came in all-chrome, especially on the six-day circuit.

It occurs to me that if a good builder could rejoin the seat lug halves (or even better, find an original and replace it), possibly replace the seat tube (which probably got butchered badly in removing the seat lug) and go back to the original bar implementation, you might get back to a decent frame. Not necessarily your size, but something you could at least point to as a Cinelli. Your drawback is that after such butchering it isn't a collectible, and you may get into it and find more and more problems. Plus, having been original owner of a few, I have to say that they were around when there weren't many alternatives out there (Frejus, Legnano, and the British builders were OK bikes but nothing like what came along in the heyday of Masi, DeRosa, and so on). Steel bike building today is so much better than what it was back then, and even a current NJS kern frame will be better done than a typical Cinelli of the period. Cinelli's have historical value, but yours doesn't because of the amount it's been reworked. But if you restore it to the original layout and do a good job of it, with a period Cinelli paint job and decals, you at least have paid a lot of respect to the original builder. And that's worth doing it.