Caroline Mani can't find a sponsor.

[Bruce K]

I did donate and probably will do more when I can.

As she stated, she was contracted through the end of this season. Things clearly went south. She, and others have been working to try and build a workable situation with no luck.

If you have that kind of experience, I would think you would be a bit more understanding.

She is a very driven individual but few women in the current US CX scene can beat her when she is in form and none have the same success at Worlds.

And yes, she is a friend so I am a little defensive when folks take shots at her.

BK

[Llewellyn]

On my list of donating priorities a sportsperson would be very, very close to the bottom. But that's just me. If they want to pursue their chosen sport then let them pay for it - whatever it is.

[bicycletricycle]

The "market" was and never will be a vacuum and the action of the invisible hand is blocked by structures, obviously. Some of these structures are old, some newer. Most of these structures are part of the culture and are hard to change because they represent real preferences and/or some truth about reality.

It seems likely to me that equally paid female cyclists participating in equally elaborate races with equal press exposure would get more attention. It also seems to me that the same thing could be said for almost any other group, senior citizen tour de france, special tour de france, displaced people tour de france, people of color tour de france, tour de france for the not especially athletic (possibly the best reality show ever?), transgender tour de france, tour de france for the veterans, etc. Any group you care to identify could benefit from a hi paying cycling career with worldwide TV coverage.

The question to me is not if it would be possible to make something more popular but why do it and who decides. I would prefer a route that avoids tyranny, perhaps we could distribute the decision making to the people?

Every single one of us can decide by supporting a sport or cause that we like or believe in with whatever attention we can give it. That support can build over time into real change.

Would I like to have access to more bike racing, Yes.

Would I like more/easier access to female bicycle racing, Yes.

Do I think that means the current level of sponsorship and support for female racing is wrong or unjust, No. (possibly in state sponsored efforts or in cases of direct and overt sexism) If I thought that everything that I wanted but was difficult to access was part of some larger conspiracy of injustice............ I would be really grumpy.

I actually think the most fair thing would just be for Women to compete with Men. Would that not be the most equal? If equality is the real goal here than just go for a level playing field. Equality of opportunity not equality of outcome (we are supposed to believe in equality of opportunity - communists believe in equality of outcome). If equality of outcome is the goal we would have to pay anyone who claimed to be a bicycle racer the same amount and then force people to watch the races while making sure that everyone wins in every race an equal amount. Sounds like an exaggeration but it is the logical conclusion to that line of thinking.


Is it unfair that women and men have different physiques and are inherently unequal when competing in physical sports? Is it unfair that people enjoy watching one thing rather than another? I don't see how one can answer yes or no to these questions, even if we could decide, who do we send the complaint to?


In the end sponsors pay the bills, they pay for what people watch. What people watch is a product of history, billions of peoples decisions and desires. It is easy to point out all the faults in history and society, really easy. What I am saying is the structures that are unfair are also the very structure of reality itself. If we want to make a change then it is up to us to do so directly by changing our own actions.

P.S.
If the female 50% percent demanded female cycling they would get it. Saying they would demand it if they already had access to it and grown to like it and thus should be provided with it based on this presumption is a little too Nostradamus for me.


Rant over

Originally Posted by FlashUNC

It is far easier to watch men's racing than women's racing, even as infuriating as access to the men's races may be. Tough to get fans when you can't even see the product. For example, the marquee women's stage race on the calendar is run right next to the freakin' Tour de France. In Italy. Brilliant.

You're arguing this is happening in some kind of vacuum with the invisible hand of the marketplace putting these kinds of structures in place, when there are actors who could be doing much more to make a commitment that races that involve the other 50% of the global population might also make for compelling viewing. Who's going to argue against watching more bike racing? The Tour de Flanders women's race this year was won by an American for pete's sake, in a sprint arguably more exciting than even Gilbert's escape. But its tough ot make Coryn Rivera the next American cycling star when you gotta "watch" the race on Twitter updates.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by FlashUNC

So you're arguing the women's world cup soccer team -- which wins the thing regularly and is hugely popular here in the States -- should get fewer resources than the men, who never even get close to a semi-final round, much less winning the thing? If you're judging it as an entertainment business, they're a heckuva lot more valuable than the men's team, yet still get paid less and have to play on inferior surfaces.

It becomes a self-perpetuating cycle. No one watches because no one can watch, so it becomes the justification for not investing further in it and growing a fanbase.

I agree with much of what you say but comparing the USMNT & USWNT is a bit of oranges & apples.
1. I think you will see much more equality (i.e., other women's national teams reach equality with the USWNT) and that is a great thing. Historically the USWNT leverage the women's college talent pool but other countries lacked any women's soccer infrastructure. that is changing. As a result, the overall level of women's soccer will improve & the matches will become far more competitive. That is a good thing. But you won't see the USWNT dominate as much as in years past. Again that is a good thing.
2. The men's game is far more mature & developed. The USMNT is undoubtedly on an upward arc as it starts to catch up to the rest of the world. To compare results between the USMNT & USWNT is a bit unfair. The depth & level of play is so different.
3. The latest women's cup last summer WAS played on turf. But that was because Canada stepped in when no one else did to host it. there was a distinct lack of interest in hosting the Women's world cup. same cannot be said for the men's side, where millions of dollars in bribes flow like water. Both FIFA's men's & women's games have significant issues -- they just differ greatly in what their issues are.

Just my 2 cents.

[John H.]

The truth is that racing in the US is on life support- Road, cross, track, mtb- men, women, whatever.

So finding a sponsor during this time is really tough- especially sponsors within the bike industry.

Originally Posted by Bruce K

I did donate and probably will do more when I can.

As she stated, she was contracted through the end of this season. Things clearly went south. She, and others have been working to try and build a workable situation with no luck.

If you have that kind of experience, I would think you would be a bit more understanding.

She is a very driven individual but few women in the current US CX scene can beat her when she is in form and none have the same success at Worlds.

And yes, she is a friend so I am a little defensive when folks take shots at her.

BK

[peanutgallery]

Not to be a smarta$$, but this really means nothing in the scheme of things as the ability to pedal a bike well does not translate to financial success or stability. Unfortunate but true, quickest route to being a barista. Taking the money from the crowd funding and taking golf lessons would be a much better investment. Or go back to school, acquire a skill for a flexible job that pays well...then go race. Unfortunately...that's the market. It blows but that's the way it is. Mens cycling of any discipline might be a half a step behind it.

On the other side of the coin (from another niche sport), Dean Wilson rode MX for Red Bull KTM in 2015/2016, got hurt a bunch and was cut at the end of last season and was cut...unemployment. The dude is a hammer and a proven winner. For 2017 he invested is himself, trained, surfed couches, borrowed a year old bike and showed up at the first several supercrosses in a beat up van with a few friends to help him out. We're talking Privateer Island. He managed some great finishes and after a few months he is now Jason Anderson's teammate and riding a factory Husky after somebody was moved on. He's rolling better than ever and if you asked him he would probably tell you that the entire experience made him more focused and appreciative of his situation. He's also been know to rock a mtb pretty hard in his spare time

http://www.vitalmx.com/features/Trai...an-Wilson,5279

Originally Posted by Bruce K

She is a very driven individual but few women in the current US CX scene can beat her when she is in form and none have the same success at Worlds.

And yes, she is a friend so I am a little defensive when folks take shots at her.

BK

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by John H.

The truth is that racing in the US is on life support- Road, cross, track, mtb- men, women, whatever.

So finding a sponsor during this time is really tough- especially sponsors within the bike industry.

I think this is as much of the reason as anything. 'Bike racing' in the US is really struggling, in spite of the 'crowds'(non paying) you might see on TV.

[choke]

Originally Posted by FlashUNC

For example, the marquee women's stage race on the calendar is run right next to the freakin' Tour de France. In Italy. Brilliant.

Here's a good analysis on why it's ran when it is - https://prowomenscycling.com/2016/07...our-de-france/

If you don't want to read it all, the sums things up;

As an Italian race, with Italian sponsors, the race organisers are looking to maximise the Italian audience, and they do this really well. Traditionally, the Giro Rosa has been reported on by RAI, Italy’s national public broadcasting company (equivalent of the BBC) as part of their Tour de France reporting – a short 5-10 mins highlights during the live TdF show, between the end of the men’s race and before the analysis, and with the usual 40-60 mins long highlights shown straight after the men’s highlights. This brings in an enormous audience, who aren’t specifically “women’s cycling” fans – who are primarily fans of men’s racing, as well as the usual extra huge boost of numbers who only tune in for Grand Tours. It’s a great tactic for getting women’s bike racing in front of the biggest audience they can.

The Tour de Flanders women's race this year was won by an American for pete's sake, in a sprint arguably more exciting than even Gilbert's escape. But its tough ot make Coryn Rivera the next American cycling star when you gotta "watch" the race on Twitter updates.

Actually the last 40k of the Women's Ronde was shown live...it was on the Ronde's Facebook page IIRC.

However, you're correct that it's very hard to watch any women's races. Some of the races in Holland and Belgium are shown live but Twitter updates are the norm for "watching" for the most part. The Giro Rosa for instance wasn't live, though it did have videos from multiple sources which were put out a few hours after the finish.

[livingminimal]

Originally Posted by John H.

The truth is that racing in the US is on life support- Road, cross, track, mtb- men, women, whatever.

So finding a sponsor during this time is really tough- especially sponsors within the bike industry.

This should have shut down the thread. This is what it comes down to.

I want to find a way to talk about the fact that America's most talented cyclocrosser has actually sat out the last couple of seasons and that its very likely that the process of doing the sponsorship bit and finding a team and having to commit may have played a role in that.

But if you know who that is, you probably know what Im talking about, and it needs no further discussion and is slightly speculative on my part.

Also, I think Caroline is awesome, but as others have said, when you have kids dying every day in Syria, water that's undrinkable in American cities, or homeless families on the street, this isn't something I can wrap my head around donating to.

[choke]

Originally Posted by livingminimal

I want to find a way to talk about the fact that America's most talented cyclocrosser has actually sat out the last couple of seasons and that its very likely that the process of doing the sponsorship bit and finding a team and having to commit may have played a role in that.

Huh? Katie Compton has raced the last two seasons.

[livingminimal]

Originally Posted by choke

Huh? Katie Compton has raced the last two seasons.

I think Cam Dodge has/d the potential to be a World Championship contender.

Your point is well taken though. Katie is definitely to date the best American Cyclocrosser ever. And it aint close.

[e-RICHIE]

Originally Posted by choke

Huh? Katie Compton has raced the last two seasons.

She's one of the 3-4 I mentioned in my first post.

[Bruce K]

I would also bet that being the French National Chsmpion would carry more weight in Europe than the US.

BK

[e-RICHIE]

Originally Posted by Bruce K

I would also bet that being the French National Chsmpion would carry more weight in Europe than the US.

BK

I wouldn't take that bet. The weight doesn't translate into dollars. Or euros.

[Pelican]

Originally Posted by e-RICHIE

I wouldn't take that bet. The weight doesn't translate into dollars. Or euros.

Brutal if true.

So how much money does it take to run a small cross team per season? I think House/RS are regional focused, and Caroline wants to run US Series, defend French National jersey and go to Worlds. Unless some cyclocross brand is willing to ante up, I don't see how this would work.