Cycling fatalities and e-bikes

[axel23]

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/05/n...ths-ebike.html

"There was one factor that contributed to last year’s spike in e-bike deaths that may suggest a shifting dynamic on the road: nearly a third of the e-bike riders who died crashed or fell without any apparent interference from a vehicle or pedestrian."

[jkbrwn]

It should be illegal to post a paywalled article without pasting the contents... anyway. 'ebikes' in NYC are another breed. Basically glorified delivery motorbikes that ride up one way streets the wrong way, into oncoming traffic, jumping red lights everywhere. It's a food delivery bubble that doesn't exist anywhere else in the country.

[Likes2ridefar]

A chart from the article. No surprise there has been an increase in more fatalities on e bikes not involving other vehicles or people.

[Likes2ridefar]

Originally Posted by jkbrwn

It's a food delivery bubble that doesn't exist anywhere else in the country.

From the article…

And although the most visible e-bike users in New York may be delivery workers and Citi Bike riders, the majority of people who died on e-bikes last year were neither. Only one delivery worker died from an e-bike crash

[Seamus]

15 Deaths from Trucks. That should be the article.

Originally Posted by likes2ridefar

a chart from the article. No surprise there has been an increase in more fatalities on e bikes not involving other vehicles or people.

[C40_guy]

Originally Posted by axel23

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/05/n...ths-ebike.html

"There was one factor that contributed to last year’s spike in e-bike deaths that may suggest a shifting dynamic on the road: nearly a third of the e-bike riders who died crashed or fell without any apparent interference from a vehicle or pedestrian."

With an estimated 65,000+ ebikes in NYC, 22 deaths are statistically insignificant. (Of course, for those involved, it's a tragedy.) If the number of deaths doubled from 11 to 22 it's still meaningless statistically. As in, you cannot make any meaningful statements about what happened.

If each of those ebikes is ridden once a week, you're talking about more than 3 million trips. That's a lot of traffic and hazard exposure.

I'd be looking at the faster ebikes that youngsters are riding like motorcycles, but on sidewalks, without helmets or any safety training.

[5oakterrace]

I do not live in NYC any longer but my sense is NYC has tons of these ebikes. More ebikes than normal bikes?

I would be curious to see reports for the non urban areas which I am thinking is where most normal bikers ride. There are many "group rides" in urban areas

[jkbrwn]

Originally Posted by Likes2ridefar

From the article…

And although the most visible e-bike users in New York may be delivery workers and Citi Bike riders, the majority of people who died on e-bikes last year were neither. Only one delivery worker died from an e-bike crash

Thanks. That's rough...

[Alistair]

E-bike deaths are replacing non-e-bike deaths. No surprise there. The total number of bike deaths (e or non-e) is up a bit, but not a huge amount (and varies greatly year to year already).

[spoonrobot]

Originally Posted by C40_guy

With an estimated 65,000+ ebikes in NYC, 22 deaths are statistically insignificant. (Of course, for those involved, it's a tragedy.) If the number of deaths doubled from 11 to 22 it's still meaningless statistically. As in, you cannot make any meaningful statements about what happened.

If each of those ebikes is ridden once a week, you're talking about more than 3 million trips. That's a lot of traffic and hazard exposure.

I'd be looking at the faster ebikes that youngsters are riding like motorcycles, but on sidewalks, without helmets or any safety training.

Well, it's called "Vision Zero" not "Vision Statistically Significant"

Of course you can make meaningful statements about what happened, the deaths doubled - 11 was too many and 22 is at least twice as too many. It is immediately possible to draw conclusions, create models, and start advocacy for reducing the number of deaths.

We have a nice marker for what is "statistically significant" in the bike industry from a recent events - More than a million Shimano cranksets were recalled after a very small percentage broke and (at least) 6 people were injured. Even if you 10x or 100x the injury rate, it's still a relatively insignificant value.

Cannondale recalled 10,000+ forks because a handful broke and 1 person died.

The fatal crash rate for motor vehicles in the US state of Georgia is ~1800 out of 7.8 million drivers - about a 2/3s the rate of ebike fatal crash rate of 22/65000.

More generally, Takata airbags are under broad recall - how many people have died? How many Takata airbags are in use around the world? Significant or not?

Children killed by overpowered airbags is another case study, one most of us lived through: https://www.nytimes.com/1996/09/18/u...re-blamed.html

The safety board, completing a two-year study, also said a survey found that more than half of children in automobiles are carried in the wrong seats or in children's seats that are improperly installed, or are not wearing any restraints.

Twenty-one children have been killed by passenger-side air bags, the board said, including 12 so far this year, compared with 1 in all of 1993.

Until recently, air bags other than those for the driver were relatively rare, but their numbers are rising rapidly, the board said, to about 22 million by the end of this year, and by an estimated 13 million a year thereafter.

Society, generally does not care about the product of a small number divided by a big number - but does care about the absolute value of the small number relative to their perception of those affected.

[GregL]

Snip:

Originally Posted by C40_guy

I'd be looking at the faster ebikes that youngsters are riding like motorcycles, but on sidewalks, without helmets or any safety training.

This is something I've been seeing locally when cycling and running through my neighborhood. Kids on heavy, relatively inexpensive, fast e-bikes. Riding helmetless and ignoring rules of the road and traffic signs/signals. Not only getting less exercise than with traditional bikes, but the higher speeds can lead to greater impact forces. I expect we'll all be sad when these crash statistics start to be publicized.

Greg

[Likes2ridefar]

Originally Posted by GregL

Snip: This is something I've been seeing locally when cycling and running through my neighborhood. Kids on heavy, relatively inexpensive, fast e-bikes. Riding helmetless and ignoring rules of the road and traffic signs/signals. Not only getting less exercise than with traditional bikes, but the higher speeds can lead to greater impact forces. I expect we'll all be sad when these crash statistics start to be publicized.

Greg

It’s why I said I’m not surprised. In wealthy areas in Scottsdale it’s mostly all the kids ride, it seems, and I’ve seen all sorts of horrible technique plus the lack of protective equipment usually on bikes that have no pedaling capabilities. Let their parents pick up the carnage after their kid is tossed from a bike sitting like an idiot on the foot rest area between his buddy’s legs going 28mph…

[stackie]

I'm not at all surprised.

Last week I passed a group of e bikes toward the end of my ride. Right after I passed them, the road turns up. As I near the top of the hill, there is a T intersection. The e bikes come roaring up on my right, the first one left hooking me in order to cut off the entire intersection running through a stop sign. Cross traffic does not have a stop. Mind you, this is essentially blind to his left as there is large group of shrubs and a huge tree blocking the sight line. That's a clever move there, fella.

I slow up and they all pass me. Now the road has leveled out. I now decide follow them from about 100ft back. I then see one of the last two lose control and ride off the road. He recovers back onto the road bumping his female companion. She miracuiously does not fall, but he goes off road again and crashes.

I did ask if he was ok as I rode past. He gave me a thumbs up, so I guess all was well. I'm pleased with myself that I reserved any snide comments about a motor not conferring bike handling skills.

Jon

[Buzz Killington]

I've been going to NYC in the late afternoon, leaving the Flatiron district for the Lincoln tunnel around 7:30pm. The e-bikes and food delivery guys are way out of control. All over the place, night-time visibility, and overall lack of enforced rules make anarchy. I almost hit a delivery rider, probably would have been my fault if it had actually happened. Luckily, I saw him last second. Yahoos on Citibikes, e-bikes that really are mopeds, jay walkers, it's all a recipe for chaos. Still always love NYC at night, so wahtev's.

[bikinchris]

Originally Posted by jkbrwn

It should be illegal to post a paywalled article without pasting the contents... anyway. 'ebikes' in NYC are another breed. Basically glorified delivery motorbikes that ride up one way streets the wrong way, into oncoming traffic, jumping red lights everywhere. It's a food delivery bubble that doesn't exist anywhere else in the country.

And FAST. They're all souped up eBikes. When we visited New York, those things were a true menace splitting lanes always going twice the speed limit.