OT Key Bridge collapse - seems surreal

[Peter P.]

Originally Posted by Mr. Pink

And all I heard from the powers that be is a bar fight on how much to spend on two conflicts thousands of miles away that have nothing to do with us.

Those conflicts have everything to do with us. Countries that see the long term ramifications understand. And we need to help those that can't help themselves because we're America; we have the means and it's in our and the rest of the free world's best interest.

[Mr. Pink]

Thus, trillion dollar fighter jets that don't work.

[Alistair]

Originally Posted by Mr. Pink

Thus, trillion dollar fighter jets that don't work.

If you mean the F-35, it's been successfully tested in combat, nations are clamoring to buy them, and the unit cost continues to drop.

https://fortune.com/longform/lockhee...5-fighter-jet/

[Alistair]

Originally Posted by Mr. Pink

...to say that this isn't a clear sign that our infrastructure is in a bad way...

A massive transport ship center-punching the main support is worst-case scenario. Same ship failure is going to take out damn near any bridge.

Which isn't to say we don't have infrastructure problems. We do. But this one incident isn't proof (or disproof) of a failure to maintain bridges/roads/etc.

[Spaghetti Legs]

Originally Posted by Mr. Pink

Dude, America is over 31 trillion in debt and personal debt is about 18 trillion. Our bridges fall down, our cities are rotting, our planes fall out of the sky. And all I heard from the powers that be is a bar fight on how much to spend on two conflicts thousands of miles away that have nothing to do with us. All I can say is, glad I'm not graduating high school into this.

I suppose if there is a thread where some drift is appropriate, it would be this one. Here’s some recent perspective on American isolationism:

This shouldn’t be paywalled

https://wapo.st/3xgEdNW

[verticaldoug]

Originally Posted by reuben

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that at least some of the B&R loans allowed China to seize assets such as port or other infrastructure in the event of a default, or at least get a controlling interest. I think (can't recall for certain) that some east African nations might have made such deals in the hopes of growing their economies and local development.

Yes, but in practice that is what we call phantom collateral. It appears valuable on paper, but in reality it is in a sovereign nation which will not let you seize it. This is what is forcing China into discussions. In a sovereign default normally the seniority is - New IMF/World Bank loans as super senior, bilateral country loans (China B&R, India, Saudi) as senior, then international private bonds and loans, finally local currency bonds and loans. China wanted to negotiate the B&R loans Pari Pasu with IMF/WB but the answer was a 'No' from the organization. The old days of cutting re-profile deals are gone and now everything is brought into the G20 / Paris Club frameworks which IMF leads the debt sustainability discussions. Everyone gets a haircut , the only question is how much.

[Mr. Pink]

Originally Posted by Alistair

If you mean the F-35, it's been successfully tested in combat, nations are clamoring to buy them, and the unit cost continues to drop.

https://fortune.com/longform/lockhee...5-fighter-jet/

https://www.defensenews.com/air/2023...ling.%E2%80%9D

I love military speak. It's such a refined form of bs.

But, the thing is, we are now involved in a conflict with a peer that we can't even use this trillion dollar taxpayer sponge in that, after, what, twenty years, is maybe half ready for a short conflict. My guess is, anything more than a month against a peer, not sandal wearing religious fanatics in the desert, would be the end of the half that are actually ready.They'll be shot down in droves, because, advanced air defense. They require logistics and bases that stick out like sore thumbs on satellite and drone surveillance, and missiles will take that out in days. The fabled F16s that will supposedly turn the tide need pristine runways cleaned by 24/7 crews, because of the poorly placed air intakes. But even the bad guys haven't been flying much because, air defense. Don't get me going about billion dollar boats with a crew of thousands that are literally sitting ducks to missile attack and water drones. But, build we must. Jobs, jobs, jobs. Money.
Meanwhile, what's become effective are fairly cheap drones in the thousands, and, good old 155mm shells, which we can barely make any of at the moment. But, where the profit in that?

[Mr. Pink]

Originally Posted by Spaghetti Legs

I suppose if there is a thread where some drift is appropriate, it would be this one. Here’s some recent perspective on American isolationism:

This shouldn’t be paywalled

https://wapo.st/3xgEdNW

https://newrepublic.com/article/1702...sms-big-reboot

"From Iraq to Ukraine, Kagan may well be one of the most damagingly influential foreign policy intellectuals the United States has produced in our time, helping American exceptionalism survive long past its sell-by date."

[Mr. Pink]

Anyway, back to the matter at hand.

This guy is right, and we're at a crucial moment when a dictator is needed, although, as he says, it's an election year (and Baltimore is a quick chopper ride from DC). We'll see if they can get their act together, but, if you saw that press conference the other day, well, reminds me of what Mr. Wolf said to the two guys in Pulp Fiction after the car was cleaned.

https://youtu.be/alpaDfnT-Bk?si=ETm5DSldfc-cjQUz

[Alistair]

Originally Posted by Mr. Pink

But, the thing is, we are now involved in a conflict with a peer that we can't even use this trillion dollar taxpayer sponge

I'm not sure which conflict you mean...
Houthi rebels in the Red Sea?
Syria?
Somalia?
Yemen?

None has much in the way of air defense, and we could use the F-35 where appropriate (no comment on whether it actually is appropriate).

[Mr. Pink]

No. The one we sent 100 billion to, and are arguing a bout another 60. And don't tell me we aren't involved.

[C40_guy]

Originally Posted by Mr. Pink

No. The one we sent 100 billion to, and are arguing a bout another 60. And don't tell me we aren't involved.

Why does everything have to be so overtly political?

This is a cycling forum and we're talking about a maritime accident.

Give it a break.

[Elefantino]

Originally Posted by C40_guy

Why does everything have to be so overtly political?

Because politics has become a combination of sport and religion, with fans and zealots.

I was involved in politics for a lot of years. Now I mostly ignore it and those who hype it.

[Mr. Pink]

Well, war is started by politicians, and ultimately ended by politicians.

[C40_guy]

Originally Posted by Mr. Pink

Well, war is started by politicians, and ultimately ended by politicians.

I'll repeat my earlier post:

This is a cycling forum and we're talking about a maritime accident.

Give it a break.