Builder's Spotlight The Paceline Forum Builder's Spotlight


Go Back   The Paceline Forum > General Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-12-2017, 10:20 PM
ColonelJLloyd ColonelJLloyd is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Louisville
Posts: 3,625
Aluminum Freehub Gouging

I know this is a semi common issue, but it's my first experience with stuck cassette cogs. Rear hub is SRAM 900. It has only a few hundred miles of single track use with XT 32 x 11-42t drivetrain. I removed the XT cassette to loan my wheels to a friend for a bikepacking trip we did recently. Before I put his brand new 10s 11-32t Shimano 105 cassette on I did notice that the freehub had bite marks from 6-7 of the largest cogs on a couple of the splines. I figured this was normal and attributable to the large cogs of the 1x11 drivetrain.

After the trip I go to put the wheels back on my MTB with my cassette and I had the toughest time I've had yet removing a lock ring and then the largest 9 cassette cogs wouldn't budge. I had to remove the freehub body, place the body through the jaws of a vise and use a mallet over a piece of a wooden dowel to knock the freehub body through the cassette cogs.

FWIW, here are some facts about this setup:
  • I don't use a torque wrench on cassette lock rings and never have. Have never had an issue yet and I get them pretty damn tight
  • My friend who borrowed the wheelset is a big dude and is always pushing a big gear; no spinning for this guy
  • He was using a 39/26 double to 11-32t 10s drivetrain on a first gen Fargo
  • We were fully loaded giving it hell on rooty, rocky single track
Isn't this only going to get worse if I continue to use this carrier? I'll call SRAM and see if they have a steel carrier that will work with this hub. In the meantime is it really ok to use a file to smooth out the ridges and reinstall the 11-42t 11s cassette?

Why the hell don't all freehub bodies have a damned steel bite guard?

Untitled by ColonelJLloyd, on Flickr
Untitled by ColonelJLloyd, on Flickr
Untitled by ColonelJLloyd, on Flickr
Untitled by ColonelJLloyd, on Flickr
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-12-2017, 10:26 PM
sales guy sales guy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 2,330
Super common. And it shouldn't get worse. Just flatten the ridges down smooth and use it. It should stay that way. You might get a slight ridge. But nothing like what you have now.

The steel bite guard, they didn't realize it would be a problem mainly cause the cogs were all bolted tight. Not single cogs loose. That's the problem. The SRAM cog has a single bolt thru it, unless you pulled it. But when you have all 3 bolts in like on a SHimano, and have spacers with splines, it doesn't happen. So they didn't know. Now they do. And they have the bite guards.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-12-2017, 10:45 PM
ColonelJLloyd ColonelJLloyd is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Louisville
Posts: 3,625
Thanks. I'm a little confused at what you're telling me, though. This freehub doesn't have a steel bite guard (Velocity hubs are the only ones I've had that did) and this hub has never seen a SRAM cassette, only XT and 105.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-12-2017, 10:47 PM
dustyrider dustyrider is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Colorado
Posts: 2,057
Take a fine tooth file to any ridge preventing easy cassette body movement and you’re good. I’ve used other things before, but the fine tooth file is quick and easy.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-12-2017, 11:13 PM
sales guy sales guy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 2,330
Quote:
Originally Posted by ColonelJLloyd View Post
Thanks. I'm a little confused at what you're telling me, though. This freehub doesn't have a steel bite guard (Velocity hubs are the only ones I've had that did) and this hub has never seen a SRAM cassette, only XT and 105.

American Classic, Hunt, Velocity and a bunch of others have a bite guard. I wasn't saying this hub did. Just saying that many offer it now.

I was just saying that SRAM cassettes have a single pin thru the cogs. It allows them to move more on freehub bodies. Wasn't saying the one you used was. Just listing the information about the cogs.

When you have individual cogs, they bite hard into the body. If you can bolt them together, that helps alleviate the issue. You will still have some of it. But it won't be as bad.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-13-2017, 05:41 AM
fa63's Avatar
fa63 fa63 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,449
Quote:
Originally Posted by dustyrider View Post
Take a fine tooth file to any ridge preventing easy cassette body movement and you’re good. I’ve used other things before, but the fine tooth file is quick and easy.

+1. HED wheels have pretty soft aluminum freehubs as well, so I had to do this occasionally.

Or you can get some White Industries or Dura Ace hubs with titanium freehub bodies
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-13-2017, 06:45 AM
45K10 45K10 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Nahant, MA
Posts: 783
I had the same problem with a freehub from a Spank wheel and a Shimano cassette. I was changing out a broken axle so the freehub had to come off anyway but it took some force to get the cassette off.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-13-2017, 07:45 AM
tv_vt tv_vt is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: East Coast of Vermont
Posts: 2,861
Never understood why consumers bought into AL freehubs. Really like that Shimano, Campy, WI, Mavic, and some others only offer steel or ti freehubs. Worth the extra weight to me.
Sorry for the thread drift.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-13-2017, 07:53 AM
oldpotatoe's Avatar
oldpotatoe oldpotatoe is offline
Proud Grandpa
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Republic of Boulder, USA
Posts: 30,203
Quote:
Originally Posted by tv_vt View Post
Never understood why consumers bought into AL freehubs. Really like that Shimano, Campy, WI, Mavic, and some others only offer steel or ti freehubs. Worth the extra weight to me.
Sorry for the thread drift.
Mavic is steel, WI and shimano(DA), ti but Campag aluminum but deep spline..which helps a lot. Shimano tried this with 7800 hubs, deep spline and aluminum but reverted back to TI or steel with later models(7850, ultegra, etc)..

BUT shallow spline, aluminum=gouging...particularly with some lower dig. hubs and soft FH bodies..Aluminum cheap and 'light'..as with a lot of bike stuff, all you can really 'measure' is weight and price..
__________________
Chisholm's Custom Wheels
Qui Si Parla Campagnolo
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-13-2017, 08:21 AM
ColonelJLloyd ColonelJLloyd is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Louisville
Posts: 3,625
Quote:
Originally Posted by tv_vt View Post
Never understood why consumers bought into AL freehubs. Really like that Shimano, Campy, WI, Mavic, and some others only offer steel or ti freehubs. Worth the extra weight to me.
Sorry for the thread drift.
At least in my case this isn't me "buying into" an aluminum freehub body. It was the only choice. It's definitely not why I chose these hubs and I would choose them again. The small strip of steel (bite guard) more or less solves the issue so I don't understand why all aluminum freehubs don't have them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldpotatoe View Post
BUT shallow spline, aluminum=gouging...particularly with some lower dig. hubs and soft FH bodies..Aluminum cheap and 'light'..as with a lot of bike stuff, all you can really 'measure' is weight and price..
And the issue is obviously exacerbated by the large torque easily created with a 42-46t rear cog.

BTW, the area around the pawls and springs was greased, but there's certainly room for more. How much grease should they get?

Untitled by ColonelJLloyd, on Flickr

Last edited by ColonelJLloyd; 10-13-2017 at 08:24 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 10-13-2017, 08:25 AM
BikeNY BikeNY is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Westchester County, NY
Posts: 66
As others have said, file the ridges and you should be fine. From your description, you did way less damage than your buddy did during that one trip. I'd say don't lend him your wheels anymore!

Concerning material, it's a weight game. Lighter weight sells hubs. I think Titanium is the best material, and not all are willing to pay for that. I use mosrt Dt hubs these days, and their freehubs are aluminum. Mine show some gouging, but nothing like yours. I did invest in a steel freehub for the DT hub on my singlespeed just in case. At least DT and Hope have steel freehubs available.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 10-13-2017, 08:30 AM
ergott's Avatar
ergott ergott is offline
ergottWheels
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Islip, NY
Posts: 5,584
They aren't meant to be completely packed with grease. It would prevent the movement of the pawls.
__________________
Eric
www.ergottwheels.com
my Ottrott
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 10-13-2017, 02:35 PM
oldpotatoe's Avatar
oldpotatoe oldpotatoe is offline
Proud Grandpa
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Republic of Boulder, USA
Posts: 30,203
Quote:
Originally Posted by ColonelJLloyd View Post
At least in my case this isn't me "buying into" an aluminum freehub body. It was the only choice. It's definitely not why I chose these hubs and I would choose them again. The small strip of steel (bite guard) more or less solves the issue so I don't understand why all aluminum freehubs don't have them.



And the issue is obviously exacerbated by the large torque easily created with a 42-46t rear cog.

BTW, the area around the pawls and springs was greased, but there's certainly room for more. How much grease should they get?

Untitled by ColonelJLloyd, on Flickr
Don’t pack pawls with grease, they can stick down, damage the hub or your front teeth. Oil on pawls, I use Mobil 1...doesn’t get thick with the cold.
__________________
Chisholm's Custom Wheels
Qui Si Parla Campagnolo
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 10-13-2017, 02:46 PM
djg21 djg21 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 3,169
I’ve had a few occassions where I had to use a Pedro’s Vice Whip (https://pedros.com/products/tools/ca...ain/vise-whip/) to remove a cog where it had worked its way into the AL free hub on an older Powertap hub. I’d grab the cog with the vice whip and rock it forward and back to dislodge it from the free hub.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 10-13-2017, 03:02 PM
ColonelJLloyd ColonelJLloyd is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Louisville
Posts: 3,625
Quote:
Originally Posted by djg21 View Post
I’ve had a few occassions where I had to use a Pedro’s Vice Whip (https://pedros.com/products/tools/ca...ain/vise-whip/) to remove a cog where it had worked its way into the AL free hub on an older Powertap hub. I’d grab the cog with the vice whip and rock it forward and back to dislodge it from the free hub.
Good solution. I don't have said tool so best I could come up with was to drive the freehub sheel through the cogs resting on a vise. It worked, but obviously knocked the pawls out (thankfully onto a paper towel I strategically placed).
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:14 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.