SBT GRVL Runs Afoul of Local Ranchers & Residents in Colorado

[Turkle]

For comparison, I've run my share of mass-start running events, and there were always comfort stations conveniently placed along the route at sensible intervals so no one had to, um, micturate on anyone's property.

I do think that it's reasonable to expect bike events to do the same, and to set expectations that the world is not their litter box. The photos of cyclists relieving themselves on private property are NOT a good look.

However, regarding blocking the roads. In my experience, there is no "good" day to do this, people really do lose their minds over not being able to use a street for 1 day out of the year. It doesn't matter how much community outreach you do, or what mitigation plans you put in place. People will absolutely HOWL if they can't drive their car when/where they want at all times. If it's not harvest season, it's the school year, or it's church day, or whatever. So I'm very much inclined to ignore those complaints.

I mean, the Richmond marathon goes on at the exact same time every year here, it's not like it's a surprise that one day / year it will be hard to drive downtown. And everyone complains like it's an unprecedented burden!

Drivers, man.

[tomato coupe]

Originally Posted by Turkle

However, regarding blocking the roads. In my experience, there is no "good" day to do this, people really do lose their minds over not being able to use a street for 1 day out of the year. It doesn't matter how much community outreach you do, or what mitigation plans you put in place. People will absolutely HOWL if they can't drive their car when/where they want at all times. If it's not harvest season, it's the school year, or it's church day, or whatever. So I'm very much inclined to ignore those complaints.

I mean, the Richmond marathon goes on at the exact same time every year here, it's not like it's a surprise that one day / year it will be hard to drive downtown. And everyone complains like it's an unprecedented burden!

Not being able to "use a street" is a big deal if you live in a rural environment. There's a big difference between not being able to drive downtown during an event and not being able to leave your own property for most of the day.

[rothwem]

Originally Posted by tomato coupe

Not being able to "use a street" is a big deal if you live in a rural environment. There's a big difference between not being able to drive downtown during an event and not being able to leave your own property for most of the day.

Yup, this. Often in rural areas there's *one* road for miles and that's what you've got to use. If its blocked, you're stuck.

[ridethecliche]

It's sad that paying a fee often makes people feel entitled to do things that can be simply described as 'un-neighborly'.

I think the organizers need to work with the area to come up with a course that keeps the spirit of the event while not totally disrupting the lives of folks that live in the area. I.e. maybe some roads need to be treated as 2 lane roads with travel only permitted on one lane to allow folks to get out if they need to. Sounds like something needs to be workshopped within the area.

At the end of the day, I think a lot of the folks don't realize how much this helps infrastructure and the local economy... but steamboat isn't huge. I can't imagine how overrun it feels during an event like this. Asking because I don't know, but does the mountain step in to carry some of the load of people?

I think the event also needs to do a big show of support for the locals in a much more obvious way. Like, offer a scholarship that kids in the local high school can apply for and put towards college expenses. Make a big show of donating to local fund (which they're already doing).

It sounds like they really need to generate some good will.

Also sounds like folks need to be cited and ticketed for littering and worse. That's just gross man. ***. If you can't figure out how to put a wrapper in your pocket during an event, you have no business coming out. That area is bloody gorgeous. Leave no trace and all...

[benb]

Let's not forget the big draw. You get way less kudos on the socials if you go do a big epic ride but there is no brand name to associate yourself with, even if just going for the ride on your own is actually a lot harder.

Could be a convergence here of:

- Very rural area, very expensive to get porta-potties
- Very large event, need way more than porta-potties than a smaller one
- Very long (hours) so even more expense
- Lots of the land is private, harder to find a place to put the rest stations
- Race wants to make as much money as possible
- The race has already pissed off all the land owners that might have been willing to have rest stations on their land if it had been handled better from the beginning.

3000 is WAY too big for me. Not going to be something I ever worry about. It takes a lot of motivation to do something that has 500 people in it. Great rides do not require a crowd for me, they're often better alone. The 500 rider events I've done that are all day like this have managed to handle all this stuff well. I don't think I ever had to worry about finding a toilet at all or even wait in a long line.

[mstateglfr]

Adding a few more points for consideration that all come from spoon's initial post and seem to have been missed or ignored by some...

- Not being able to use the road you live on for an entire day is definitely an inconvenience. The organizer said 2 way traffic will be eliminated moving forward, which means once riders pass a house, the road can open there for the rest of the day. That changes things since rwgps shows many routes use the same road a couple of times.
Also, many people could go about their mornings without issue if they live on a road that is utilized later in one of the distances.

- Steamboat Springs is 13,000 people. The entire county which this is ridden is is only 25,000 people. The county has 11 people per square mile. 11. Per square mile.

- The ride generated $4.5MM of taxable spending in Steamboat Springs which supports small businesses and local employment. That spending resulted in $378,000 in taxes. $3,780 in taxes went to the county, $10,960 in taxes went to the state, and $363,258 in taxes went to Steamboat Springs, which is the county seat and largest town in the county.

- When people mention the city benefitted and the county didnt, yeah the money tracks with that claim. But at the same time, there is little else in the county besides Steamboat Springs. Thats the only place with an actual grocery store, a Walmart, and there are barely even any other playgrounds in the entire county.
With that said, if the county could financially benefit more, maybe that would help reduce frustration. But how much is actually needed?

- Anyone can call in and report a rider for doing things they dislike.



At 11 people per square mile, how many people is this actually hurting? I hope both sides can meet in the middle and make this work. SBT GRVL sure seems like they are proactively trying to address concerns.

ETA- The claim that this race is unsafe for the citizens and producers of Routt County is...a touch on the dramatic side. Some rancher made that claim. The rancher also called it 'one of the worst example of nonrepresentational government.'
What on Earth?!?! How is this an example of nonrepresentational government? People are elected or hired to run governments. Those people are tasked with making decisions so that not everything has to be a direct vote by all the people. I welcome a scenario where the rancher would feel like he is properly represented. This is a county with only 25,000 people and over half live in one town(city). The county has 11 people per square mile and if you look at land outside of Steamboat Springs, there are fewer than 5 people per square mile. Fewer than 5 per square mile.
Yeah- money is going to go to the place(s) where people exist. Its going to be spent in the place with 1300 people per sq mi and not the pace with 5 people per sq mi. Further, the areas with 5 people per sq mi should not have an overly influential impact on decision making. If they did, then that would actually be non-representational in nature.

[jadmt]

they should make it a dual sporting event....let the gravel racers race but let the ranchers play shoot the bikers with pellet guns or paint ball guns for sport.....win win..be like a big county fair type event....plink the biker...ding ding you win a prize..

[tomato coupe]

Originally Posted by mstateglfr

The county has 11 people per square mile.

At 11 people per square mile, how many people is this actually hurting?

The county has 11 people per square mile ...

You keep repeating this, but it's a fairly meaningless figure because it represents the average density for the entire county. The population density along the SBT GRVL route is certainly a lot higher than this.

[redir]

From the article title they, "want to protect their heritage."

I find that amusing on a lot of levels.

[ridethecliche]

Originally Posted by redir

From the article title they, "want to protect their heritage."

I find that amusing on a lot of levels.

I was trying to figure out how to say this but... Here goes.

I snowboard and try to make it out west once or twice a season if time and funds allow. I'm Indian and grew up in Delhi moving to the US at 11 which makes me a huge outlier in many ways. Hilariously one of my friends whom I travel and ride with the most is also Indian, which is hilarious because we've only known each other for like two years, but we always point out all the brown folks we see on the mountain because it's rare.

We also spend time in town. I've been to steamboat twice. Jackson hole once. SLC a couple of times including one time when we did a road trip to the Idaho border to ride and even drove and ate a meal in idaho.

I'm saying all this because there were a lot of things I felt like I didn't belong in these spaces.

It hasnt escaped my notice how there's all this talk of heritage creeping up at an event that's going out of its way to be inclusive.

Fact is that these spaces benefit economically from these events. You're never going to have 100% buy in from a community which is fine but you need to build up good will and do things to help. If you're doing all that and have majority buy in then...

Fact is. Gravel events need the support of communities like this. There needs to be some leadville esque energy to help these things succeed.

[AngryScientist]

The more I read about big events like this that invariably attract the type A personalities, the less and less interested I am in participating. Riding alone or with small groups of like minded friends is so much better for me.

I think a lot of these "gravel" type of events have been allowed to get too big. Too many cyclists riding on what are intended to be rural farm roads is going to cause disruption and resentment, even if everyone acts perfectly, and we know the more people you accumulate, the more jerks will be present.

[tommyrod74]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

The more I read about big events like this that invariably attract the type A personalities, the less and less interested I am in participating. Riding alone or with small groups of like minded friends is so much better for me.

I think a lot of these "gravel" type of events have been allowed to get too big. Too many cyclists riding on what are intended to be rural farm roads is going to cause disruption and resentment, even if everyone acts perfectly, and we know the more people you accumulate, the more jerks will be present.

Every discipline of cycling has gone through this. Cyclocross went through it here a few seasons back. MTB, years (decades) ago. Cyclists discover or invent a "new" version of cycling, it gets more popular, events get larger (and eventually have prizes and awards), and people get surprised that racers take notice of their races and start racing them.

Just because "type A" personalities show up doesn't mean that you have to race them if you don't want to. You can always go and ride your ride. And if we aren't allowed to generalize about rural people (and I agree we shouldn't), we also shouldn't assume that competitive riders are the "jerks" in any group. There's no demonstrable correlation between racer types and propensity to litter, poop in someone's yard, etc.

I agree that field limits are just a smart call for these events.

[mstateglfr]

Originally Posted by tomato coupe

You keep repeating this, but it's a fairly meaningless figure because it represents the average density for the entire county. The population density along the SBT GRVL route is certainly a lot higher than this.

I do a yearly gravel race about an hour from me. It starts and ends in Newton IA which has 15,000 people. It passes near a couple towns, but only rolls thru one other town and that has 2,000 people.
The race is 55mi within the Jasper Co with a density of 52 people per mile. Newton has 1,390 people per square mile. You spend the first 10 minutes and the last 8 minutes in Newton. Besides that, its straight rural farming country.
Remove Newton and the rest of the county is 30 people per square mile...which even that seems high.
I spend maybe 5mi in the populated part of that county and 50mi in the rural farm part.

Same applies here.
How much of the 140mi route below is densely populated? I am surprised we are even using the term 'densely populated' at all here. I have only been out there once- thru the town into WY, but from what I saw- it quickly goes to rural outside of the immediate town. That was 2018, so maybe its exploded in growth while the population stayed down in the last census?

[tomato coupe]

Originally Posted by mstateglfr

How much of the 140mi route below is densely populated? I am surprised we are even using the term 'densely populated' at all here.

Has anyone except you used the term?

[BRad704]

Originally Posted by mstateglfr

People are elected or hired to run governments. Those people are tasked with making decisions so that not everything has to be a direct vote by all the people. I welcome a scenario where the rancher would feel like he is properly represented. This is a county with only 25,000 people and over half live in one town(city). The county has 11 people per square mile and if you look at land outside of Steamboat Springs, there are fewer than 5 people per square mile. Fewer than 5 per square mile.
Yeah- money is going to go to the place(s) where people exist. Its going to be spent in the place with 1300 people per sq mi and not the pace with 5 people per sq mi. Further, the areas with 5 people per sq mi should not have an overly influential impact on decision making. If they did, then that would actually be non-representational in nature.

This part reminds of the concept that "squirrels, cows and open fields aren't voters", or something like that.