Smooth riding wheelset formulas

[twors]

What makes a smooth riding compliant wheelset. Is it the rim or spokes or both. Setting up a new endurance bike. Rider weight 215. Will probably be on tubeless 28's.

[Mackers]

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[Bentley]

Originally Posted by Mackers

99% tyres, 1% rim and spokes.

I would argue that Tubeless ride better than Clinchers. I would say that really stiff hoops, are hard to get "compliant"

I think ride is definitely driven by tires, same wheel and a better tire, rides better, but I do think there are wheel tire combos that are more compliant. I used to ride a set of Spinergy wheels with the PBO spokes, they rode good but they were heavy. I'm riding some DA wheels, Tubeless, with Schwalbe tires and they ride great. My Mavic CXP 33's, they don't have as good a ride, but they are good for what they are.

In general, the equation you laid out is basically correct, but there are definitely wheels that make a bit of difference.

[msl819]

I have found that wider rims ride better for me than the same basic set up with older rims. It is all subjective but that's my take. That said, good tires are by far the most significant factor.

[echelon_john]

Tire size, casing type and pressure. You shouldn't be looking for compliance--especially for a 215lb rider--from the wheel construction.

Lateral stiffness is a different matter; this can be influenced in the build. In order of influence:
1. Spoke count
2. Spoke thickness
3. Rim depth & width

Make the right choices to minimize lateral flex under load for the rider's size and use, then look to the tires for compliance/smoothness.

[19wisconsin64]

Originally Posted by twors

What makes a smooth riding compliant wheelset. Is it the rim or spokes or both. Setting up a new endurance bike. Rider weight 215. Will probably be on tubeless 28's.

Hi, This is a very good question, and one that I have thought a lot about when choosing wheelsets for my carbon road bike and my steel road bike.

I weigh 180 pounds, and have found that a minimum of 28 spokes is best for me, and if I was 215 pounds I would go with 32 spokes at least.

You could get some double butted spokes, and will be fine, straight spokes are too stiff riding.

I'm sure you can figure out weather to go three cross or two cross for the spoke lacing patterns.

One thing you did not mention that I'll suggest-a quiet riding hub. To me, in my mind (and everyone is different) a quiet drivetrain is far more comfortable and soothing to ride on that a loud clickety-ratchety one.

My road "modern" wheelsets use Dura Ace hubs-smooth riding. These are amazing. Expensive, but amazing. I'd also suggest using the Ultegra hubsets for similar/less expensive smoothness qualities. My vintage "everyday ride" wheelset uses Campagnolo C record hubs (with a very quiet dura ace freewheel).

As far as rims go, these will (IMHO) make the biggest difference in speed, quietness of ride, comfort, and overall cycling enjoyment. HED Belgium Plus rims are on both my modern wheelset and my vintage wheelset. These can run tubeless, and because of their wider inner rim width change the shape of the tires to be round, soft riding, with less rolling resistance, better braking, better cornering and overall more overall cycling enjoyment.

Good luck with the project!

[jasonification]

Originally Posted by 19wisconsin64

Hi, This is a very good question, and one that I have thought a lot about when choosing wheelsets for my carbon road bike and my steel road bike.

I weigh 180 pounds, and have found that a minimum of 28 spokes is best for me, and if I was 215 pounds I would go with 32 spokes at least.

You could get some double butted spokes, and will be fine, straight spokes are too stiff riding.

I'm sure you can figure out weather to go three cross or two cross for the spoke lacing patterns.

One thing you did not mention that I'll suggest-a quiet riding hub. To me, in my mind (and everyone is different) a quiet drivetrain is far more comfortable and soothing to ride on that a loud clickety-ratchety one.

My road "modern" wheelsets use Dura Ace hubs-smooth riding. These are amazing. Expensive, but amazing. I'd also suggest using the Ultegra hubsets for similar/less expensive smoothness qualities. My vintage "everyday ride" wheelset uses Campagnolo C record hubs (with a very quiet dura ace freewheel).

As far as rims go, these will (IMHO) make the biggest difference in speed, quietness of ride, comfort, and overall cycling enjoyment. HED Belgium Plus rims are on both my modern wheelset and my vintage wheelset. These can run tubeless, and because of their wider inner rim width change the shape of the tires to be round, soft riding, with less rolling resistance, better braking, better cornering and overall more overall cycling enjoyment.

Good luck with the project!

+1. I love my Ultegra and DA hubs!

[false_Aest]

Appropriate rim width paired with
appropriate tire selection and
appropriate tire width inflated to
appropriate PSI ridden
appropriately by the
appropriate rider.

[echelon_john]

definitely the most appropriate response.

Originally Posted by false_Aest

Appropriate rim width paired with
appropriate tire selection and
appropriate tire width inflated to
appropriate PSI ridden
appropriately by the
appropriate rider.

[eddief]

has spoken.

Originally Posted by echelon_john

definitely the most appropriate response.

[Tony]

Tires make the biggest difference, wide rims help the tires make that difference.

[MaraudingWalrus]

I think you can find a ton of information here about that.

I'm not sure I would agree wholly that spoke tension will influence the quality of the ride, but I don't have the decades of experience to have an opinion on that which carries weight...


Tire will almost certainly make the most difference, nothing saddens me as a wheel builder more than when I've built someone what I think will be a wonderfully riding wheel, only to see it a few months laters wrapped in gatorhardshells with extra thick tubes.

Rim next, I would argue. Various rim profiles will allow the tire to be shaped differently as we all now know.

[Gummee]

Originally Posted by MaraudingWalrus

Rim next, I would argue. Various rim profiles will allow the tire to be shaped differently as we all now know.

I'll add in: rim shape/profile too, not just width. A true box-section like a TB-14 is going to ride softer than a deep-V shaped rim regardless of what tire you're running.

For the OP's guy who wants a comfy wheel, I'd say TB-14s and lots of butted spokes should do the trick. If he rides lightly, he can possibly get away with 28/32. If he rides like Mongo, 32/36

M

[echelon_john]

Mongo only pawn in game of bikes.

Originally Posted by Gummee

I'll add in: rim shape/profile too, not just width. A true box-section like a TB-14 is going to ride softer than a deep-V shaped rim regardless of what tire you're running.

For the OP's guy who wants a comfy wheel, I'd say TB-14s and lots of butted spokes should do the trick. If he rides lightly, he can possibly get away with 28/32. If he rides like Mongo, 32/36

M