Brakes: modulation vs. sponge for stopping power

[froze]

Originally Posted by MikeD

That Rodriguez article is out of date and is wrong today with respect to V brakes. Tektro and Diacompe make V brake compatible brake levers. Current STI brake levers are long pull and work with V's. Thicker V brake pads are now sold, and I'd rather replace a V brake pads than a canti one with the unthreaded brake studs (a huge PITA). And V brakes don't squeal any worse than canti brakes do.

Where canti brakes fail is in cable hangers that flex and bend the brake cables at sharp angles, the straddle wire which has to be set at the proper length or the brake leverage is crap (plus it has the falling rate problem), the straddle cable hanger which crimps the cable with a pinch bolt or set screw causing cable damage, and a failure mode where if the brake cable breaks, the straddle wire falls onto the tire. If you have a knobby tire that's a trip over the handlebars and a face plant. If your cantis have the smooth brake shoe studs, they are a royal pain to adjust. I've had numerous canti brakes on bikes over the years and found V brakes to be a huge improvement over them.

Yes, I admit they may be a problem with clearance for fenders and with older brake levers, which may necessitate the use of cantis over V's. Tektro makes a wide range of V brakes with different length arms.

spooky similar https://wpp.crw.org/safety/2006/06de...tyProblems.php you used the same wording! Anyway's I'm glad that was brought mine and our attention, but since i use semi smooth tires a straddle wire falling won't cause a problem other then rub on the tire...however, on the 85 Schwinn I use fenders so if the wire fell it would just bounce around on top of the fender.

That same article you quoted mentioned a another problem that is the most common of problems that can cause a crash due to mechanical issue, and that is a bent rear derailleur. Odd, because in over 40 years of riding I've never known anyone to crash their bike due to a bent rear derailleur, but I guess everyone I knew always had their derailleur adjusted properly. But my point in bring this more common problem to light is that if that is the most common problem, and I've never seen or heard of it happening, then the straddle wire falling has to be quite rare, so rare it would be like finding a Ivory Billed woodpecker while out riding.

[benb]

Originally Posted by MikeD

That Rodriguez article is out of date and is wrong today with respect to V brakes. Tektro and Diacompe make V brake compatible brake levers. Current STI brake levers are long pull and work with V's. Thicker V brake pads are now sold, and I'd rather replace a V brake pads than a canti one with the unthreaded brake studs (a huge PITA). And V brakes don't squeal any worse than canti brakes do.

Where canti brakes fail is in cable hangers that flex and bend the brake cables at sharp angles, the straddle wire which has to be set at the proper length or the brake leverage is crap (plus it has the falling rate problem), the straddle cable hanger which crimps the cable with a pinch bolt or set screw causing cable damage, and a failure mode where if the brake cable breaks, the straddle wire falls onto the tire. If you have a knobby tire that's a trip over the handlebars and a face plant. If your cantis have the smooth brake shoe studs, they are a royal pain to adjust. I've had numerous canti brakes on bikes over the years and found V brakes to be a huge improvement over them.

Yes, I admit they may be a problem with clearance for fenders and with older brake levers, which may necessitate the use of cantis over V's. Tektro makes a wide range of V brakes with different length arms.

Pretty much agree with everything you said except modern STI levers being longer pull, I'm curious what full size V-brakes you tried. I haven't tried it. If full size actually work better than Mini Vs I'd be psyched. No question the new levers are pulling more than the old ones but they don't seem like they are the same as MTB levers were back in the day.

It's been a long time since I ran V brakes on my MTB but my recollection is the combination of shimano levers intended for V-brakes there + full size V-brakes was a lot better than STI levers plus Mini Vs like the TRP CX9s I have right now. The MTB setup had more mud clearance/cable travel, so you could get lots of brake power, good feel, and the pads backed further off the rim when you let go of the brake.

The TRP CX9s have been pretty good for me but not great.. I'd be tempted to try the 8.4s but then I lose even more clearance for fenders + big tires. If I could actually run a 10cm arm like a MTB with my STI levers it would help a bit for running maximum size tires + fenders on my bike.

[MikeD]

Originally Posted by benb

Pretty much agree with everything you said except modern STI levers being longer pull, I'm curious what full size V-brakes you tried. I haven't tried it. If full size actually work better than Mini Vs I'd be psyched. No question the new levers are pulling more than the old ones but they don't seem like they are the same as MTB levers were back in the day.

It's been a long time since I ran V brakes on my MTB but my recollection is the combination of shimano levers intended for V-brakes there + full size V-brakes was a lot better than STI levers plus Mini Vs like the TRP CX9s I have right now. The MTB setup had more mud clearance/cable travel, so you could get lots of brake power, good feel, and the pads backed further off the rim when you let go of the brake.

The TRP CX9s have been pretty good for me but not great.. I'd be tempted to try the 8.4s but then I lose even more clearance for fenders + big tires. If I could actually run a 10cm arm like a MTB with my STI levers it would help a bit for running maximum size tires + fenders on my bike.

The Santana rep at the handmade bike show in Sacramento told me that. He said the STI levers that have the derailleur cables under the bar tape are longer pull than the older ones with external cables. YMMV. V brakes are cheap; especially the Tektro ones. You might want to experiment. I went through a couple of iterations before I settled on the ones I have now. Tektro pads suck though. Use Kool Stops.

OTOH, I just looked at how much rear brake cable moved on my bike with the Tektro V brake levers and my other bike with a 2014 Ultegra STI lever. The Tektro pulled a lot more cable, so it would appear that a mini V would still be in order for new STI levers; or Travel Agents.