e-Bikes...thoughts?

[KidWok]

Originally Posted by fogrider

you might even consider a tandem!

Most tandem riders I know don't go uphill that fast, especially if one rider is less-abled. Would make it harder on both of them probably. I remember riding tandem with my ex when she was just out of shape...going uphill was much harder.

Yes...I think an e-bike would definitely be a good option for someone who is less-abled. On something like my Stromer, they could more than keep up while getting a good workout. May be a nice transition towards riding a standard bicycle if they were so inclined.

Tai

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by p nut

I think by definition, they are motorcycles:

M-W dictionary--
: a vehicle with two wheels that is powered by a motor and that can carry one or two people

It depends on the jurisdiction. In many states, there are distinctions between motorcycles and mopeds/motorized bicycles, and sometimes a separate category for motor scooters. In some states, e-bikes are lumped in with mopeds, and in other states e-bikes and mopeds are separate entities.

Here in Massachusetts, an e-bike might either be categorized as a motorized bicycle (moped) or as a low-speed electric bicycle, depending on power and top speed. If the power is less than 750 Watts and the top speed is less than 20 mph, then it will be considered an e-bike, and subject to regular bicycle rules. If faster or more powerful, it will be considered a motorized bicycle (moped), and it must be registered, can not be operated by anyone under 16, and is allowed on public streets, but not on limited access highways or on off-road recreational paths.

I wonder if the bike shops in Massachusetts which sell the higher speed/power models advise their customers about the legal requirements of their usage?

[fiamme red]

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/0...ectric-bike-2/

I'm in favor of electric bikes, but on the other hand I've been passed going uphill by delivery men who were smoking cigarettes while riding them.

[joev]

Well this was a first. On Saturday's group ride here in Tucson, the Old Man Shootout, there was an old guy (really...he had grey hear and all!), without a helmet, in the middle of our bunch - say 70 riders - and on a bike with a motor by the bottom bracket! A buddy of mine remarked after the ride on seeing the "strong old guy next to him" and I asked if he saw the motor and he almost fell to the ground when he realized what had happened.

I am all for e-bikes and all. They get people out and to places they wouldn't otherwise. But not in a group ride...w/o a helmet. A newbe in the group w/a motor is not what I want to be next to in a bunch. Is this the next trend?

[Tony]

I have no problem with E-bikes, unless you use strava while riding one.

This guy gets a free E bike, real transparent with his comments regarding its performance.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kw0mywCfuB0

Same guy on a Turbo Levo FSR Comp
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ap_7TPZ_rY

[BobO]

I want to put my dad on an ebike. I'd like to see him do much more for fitness and the ebike would get him over those few hills that scare him. It's not ideal for fitness, but, something is better than nothing. Plus, I could get him to motor pace me.

As to bike vs motorcycle, if it can go 30 uphill, it's a motorcycle and has no business being in a bike lane. Ebikes on a MUP is a different thing and it depends on the riders. If they slow for congested areas and act with consideration and courtesy, who cares. Otherwise, lump them in with those strong patheletes who try to go 25 through packs of moms with strollers and mop dogs.

[Ti Designs]

My concern is about human nature. People are lazy, most people will go for the easier option. So where does that end? My supermarket has two electric grocery carts for customers who can't walk around, they're both always in use. You could make the argument that they give people access to food shopping on their own, but I would have to argue that they help enable people to reach that level.

Our society defends the right to do nothing. In my early 20s I suffered a severe back injury that left me in a wheelchair. It seemed like everybody at the time was trying to convince me that it was OK, that being unable to walk was almost normal. They gave me lots of examples of people who couldn't walk 100 yards... What they didn't suggest was doing something about it. The concept of hard work instead of sitting back and being lazy is almost unthinkable. So once you have the option to let the electric assist do the work, do you ever really go back???

[ofcounsel]

I picked up a Specialized Levo full suspension rig for my wife last year. She really likes it.

Until she owned the Levo, about the best I could do was get her to go for flat river bed trail rides. Now, she'll go riding on moderate dirt trails with my 8 year old son and I. Today, we rode about 8 miles and climbed about 500 feet. Not much for my son and I. But my wife never, ever have done it without the Levo. So it's a great addition to the family.

I've taken the Levo out twice myself (my wife's 5'8" and I'm 5'10", so we both get by on a medium frame). One ride was 38 miles and 6000+ feet of elevation gain. I had to run the power settings at the absolute minimum to go that distance/elevation. And it wasn't as "easy" as one would think, but I put out about the same physical effort as a 20 mile/3000ft dirt ride (based on Strava suffer score data) (no PR's or other rider's data was compromised with my Strava data....I classified the ride within Strava's "e-bike" category, which doesn't allow the data to be compared to full-human powered bikes).

Bottom line... I wouldn't get one for myself, but it's a great addition to the family quiver.

[ofcounsel]

Originally Posted by Ti Designs

So once you have the option to let the electric assist do the work, do you ever really go back???

I always have the option to take out the Levo..... 99 times out of 100, I doubt I would.

The bike certainly has it's place. It's great for my wife and my son loves that she's out with us on Sunday family rides...

I have friends who own them as well. If it gets them outside and having fun, hey, it's all good by me...

And if any of my fool friends get the wise idea to climb Harding Truck Trail to Santiago Peak again, then yeah... I will feel no shame in pulling out the Levo again. But absent that... I enjoy the simple pleasure/pain of the struggle to reach the top... Even with my late 40's fat dad bod...

[Ti Designs]

Originally Posted by ofcounsel

I have friends who own them as well. If it gets them outside and having fun, hey, it's all good by me...

But lazy is a standard distribution - that bell curve we all know and love, and [most people here] pride ourselves on being somewhere to the far right when it comes to physical activity. The scary part is it's a self adjusting standard distribution. Let's say that e-bikes are truly integrated with the cycling population, and the bell curve being plotted is average fitness of each individual. For anyone in the bottom 25% the answer to riding a bike is easy - get an e-bike and let it do the work. This is no different from the motorized shopping cart, they gain mobility at the cost of what fitness they had, and at some point it becomes hopeless. From the 50% mark down, there will be a temptation to move across the bell curve - all of the sudden they can do those epic rides they've read about in magazines. They always have the option to not use the electric assist... Yeh right, it's going to follow the same pattern at any narcotic effect. People always have the option of not texting while driving, but... That brings us to the right side of the bell curve and a tradition in cycling called cheating.

The bottom line is if cycling increases fitness, e-bikes will cause a shift in the bell curve towards the left. The bell curve will always adjust, but the average fitness level will be lower. You can give individual accounts of how an e-bike hasn't lowered your own fitness, that's one data point in a graph of millions...

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by joev

Well this was a first. On Saturday's group ride here in Tucson, the Old Man Shootout, there was an old guy (really...he had grey hear and all!), without a helmet, in the middle of our bunch - say 70 riders - and on a bike with a motor by the bottom bracket! A buddy of mine remarked after the ride on seeing the "strong old guy next to him" and I asked if he saw the motor and he almost fell to the ground when he realized what had happened.

I am all for e-bikes and all. They get people out and to places they wouldn't otherwise. But not in a group ride...w/o a helmet. A newbe in the group w/a motor is not what I want to be next to in a bunch. Is this the next trend?

Even tho spring time and this will undoubtedly digress into a mud sling..how does the gent w/o a helmet effect you? His noggin, his biz. MY opinion.

[Rusty Luggs]

Originally Posted by joev

Well this was a first. On Saturday's group ride here in Tucson, the Old Man Shootout, there was an old guy (really...he had grey hear and all!), without a helmet, in the middle of our bunch - say 70 riders - and on a bike with a motor by the bottom bracket! A buddy of mine remarked after the ride on seeing the "strong old guy next to him" and I asked if he saw the motor and he almost fell to the ground when he realized what had happened.

I am all for e-bikes and all. They get people out and to places they wouldn't otherwise. But not in a group ride...w/o a helmet. A newbe in the group w/a motor is not what I want to be next to in a bunch. Is this the next trend?

e-bike = motorized vehicle
My thoughts about them integrated into a group ride are no different than my thoughts about any other motorized vehicle being mixed in. Not welcome.

Like mopeds, they have their utility and place in the world.

[oldpotatoe]

Nothing to add..just thought this was funny..

[Bentley]

Originally Posted by rkhatibi

I've been considering building one as a fun project. Used hardtail MTB donor bike, battery, and a 750w mid engine kit. Looked like it could be done for less than $2k all in if based on the Bafang BBS02.

Example

So what is the range on one of these and top speed? I have been thinking about modifying a nike for my oldest daughter that has MS so she could ride the MS 150 with me, I would need like 65mi at 20ish mph to make it work, is that possible. She can pedal a bit, but overheating is the concern

Thanks

Ray

[benb]

I'm of the opinion they can be/will be a great thing for commuters.

I went into the LBS yesterday with my brother. He's not athletic/fit or inclined to be. He works at a bank, no facilities for showering, etc.. He has a short commute and drives.

He was pretty intrigued by the eBikes.. (shop is pushing them hard all of a sudden). It would probably improve his fitness. The LBS in question said they have a policy of only selling pedal assist bikes.

He could get one and ride it to work probably without breaking a sweat. He would get > 0 exercise, wouldn't have to shower. He'd significantly drop his spending on gasoline, reduce wear and tear on the car, and cut C02 emissions.

The eBikes are also coming set up very practical for the street unlike most bikes that are built/sold on the illusion that everyone is going to race. The eBikes almost all had full fenders, came with built in permanently wired taillights and headlights, etc..

Now on the trail (dirt) I am really not in favor of them. I really do believe they are going to do more damage. Not only due to the motor on the uphills but just the fact they are tanks and weigh more. The riders are going to have to spend more time braking for corners (more chances to break loose and dig up trails) and they are going to need more tire just to get through the corners at the same speed and will probably dig things up more there too.

For the group ride scenario, seems pretty cut and dry, just like most groups do not allow riders without helmets, just make a club policy that motorized bikes are not allowed. Folks who want to include motors can go form their own group. Already happens with motorcycles.