Head injuries in sport

[Jgrooms]

^boxing is good point. But we traded it for cage fighting. Maybe hydrid of arena football further parred down mixed with cage fighting. Something that can be contested on a basketball sized field. Think of the savings in overhead.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[numbskull]

Originally Posted by ptourkin

They can only study the brains that have been donated. As stated, the percentage of those that are positive for CTE is staggering.

On this you are wrong. They could have (and absolutely should have) easily obtained age matched control brain tissue from any of several "brain banks" to be studied along with the football brains. Likewise the brains need to be examined by several different neuropathologists to help eliminate observer bias. The chief investigator runs a center dedicated to CTE research. She has a very strong self-interest to produce results that enhance her center's funding. This is unavoidable and normal but because of it she has an ethical and scientific obligation to be sure those findings are scientifically valid and reproducible. Unless a trial design accounts for observer biases (be they conscious or unconscious) the trial's results are likely to fail this test.

All that said, I have not yet seen the study methods published so perhaps my skepticism is misguided.
To be clear, my intent is not to minimize any concerns about traumatic head injury ( I have no doubt it is an underestimated risk) nor defend the sport of football (which I do not follow).....I only cringe when poor science is sensationalized.

[gasman]

Originally Posted by numbskull

On this you are wrong. They could have (and absolutely should have) easily obtained age matched control brain tissue from any of several "brain banks" to be studied along with the football brains. Likewise the brains need to be examined by several different neuropathologists to help eliminate observer bias. The chief investigator runs a center dedicated to CTE research. She has a very strong self-interest to produce results that enhance her center's funding. This is unavoidable and normal but because of it she has an ethical and scientific obligation to be sure those findings are scientifically valid and reproducible. Unless a trial design accounts for observer biases (be they conscious or unconscious) the trial's results are likely to fail this test.

All that said, I have not yet seen the study methods published so perhaps my skepticism is misguided.
To be clear, my intent is not to minimize any concerns about traumatic head injury ( I have no doubt it is an underestimated risk) nor defend the sport of football (which I do not follow).....I only cringe when poor science is sensationalized.

Numb-

Here's a link to the full study: http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama...rticle/2645104

The authors admit that the study is a convince sample of 202 brains, the 4 neuropathologists followed the latest guidelines developed to diagnose CTE and they were blinded to the behaviors reported in the patients. It seems like it's a well done study that while it has limitations it is valid and well done. No study is perfect and clearly definitive but this adds immeasurably to the body of evidence.

Glancing at just a few of the papers published from the world wide brain banks there are very few diagnosis of CTE-mostly Alzheimer's, Lewy body dementia, etc.

To deny the reality of CTE at this point reminds me of a post-doc I worked with in a toxicology lab in medical school (1979) who was adamant that it had not been proven that smoking caused lung cancer. His bias was he smoked. I don't want to imply that you have a bias, you want good science done. I do too.

Heck, even the NFL says that the risk of CTE from playing professional football is 23 %-and you know they are trying to minimize any connection. They are already paying out $1 billion in compensation to former players and it's not because they are altruistic.

I think American football will continue but further rule changes need to be made to protect the players.

Gasman who also makes patients numb

[numbskull]

Originally Posted by gasman

Numb-

Here's a link to the full study: http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama...rticle/2645104

Thanks for the link. I should have searched this myself before commenting.

What it seems to "show" is that if you have played football and develop behavioral disorders or dementia sufficient to concern your family (and hence your brain is donated) there is a significant incidence of CTE that increases with age and years played.

I agree this is concerning and strong further evidence that CTE may be causative or strongly contributory to cognitive and behavioral problems.

What the study does NOT show, however, is the incidence of CTE in football players in general (the subset of football players that develop CTE might be very small or quite large....you can't conclude anything about that from this study).

[Jgrooms]

^ Hey sure the NFL paid out & continues to do so wo any linkage to causation. They have pretty good lawyers?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[paredown]

Originally Posted by Ken Robb

my dad was born in Scotland in 1908. He played soccer as a kid and retired as a professional in 1948. He headed many heavy wet leather balls and probably had a few concussions from on-field collisions. He died at 81 having suffered from increasing dementia in his later years. We assumed it was Alzheimer's but these new studies make me think Dad's problem may have been a result of many hits to his head. I like that idea because head hits aren't hereditary. I hope.

I think the doctors might agree with you--my sister-in-law suffered a full-on TBI in a car accident. Did the full course of rehab, and had permanent long-term impairment to a degree.

The one thing the doctors were emphatic about--she had to quit playing soccer for just this reason--the chance of re-injury it was too great. So she took up rowing...

And if it is the cumulative effect of series of minor jostles rather than full-on hits that cause blackouts or TBIs then no amount of coaching about how to hit in football will save the sport.

[Elefantino]

The NFL only professes to be concerned about head injuries because it was caught ignoring head injuries and attempted (and, for a brief time, succeeded) to impugn the character and qualifications of anyone who made the connection between the NFL and head injuries.

Protect the shield.®

[buddybikes]

>>>All that said, I have not yet seen the study methods published so perhaps my skepticism is misguided.
To be clear, my intent is not to minimize any concerns about traumatic head injury ( I have no doubt it is an underestimated risk) nor defend the sport of football (which I do not follow).....I only cringe when poor science is sensationalized.

this was a fact based study on whether the brain has CTE not a drug comparison. Just happened to be 110 out of 111. Only question in detail is the extent of CTE and perhaps comparing to the general public if this just occurs through lots of people's lives.

[gasman]

Originally Posted by steveandbarb1

>>>All that said, I have not yet seen the study methods published so perhaps my skepticism is misguided.
To be clear, my intent is not to minimize any concerns about traumatic head injury ( I have no doubt it is an underestimated risk) nor defend the sport of football (which I do not follow).....I only cringe when poor science is sensationalized.

this was a fact based study on whether the brain has CTE not a drug comparison. Just happened to be 110 out of 111. Only question in detail is the extent of CTE and perhaps comparing to the general public if this just occurs through lots of people's lives.

Read the study. It's good but not perfect science. They looked at 202 brains, 111 of them played in the NFL. The rest were college and HS level.

This is a problem that should be studied more but it sure seems like a real problem.

[fiamme red]

New York Times: Playing Football Before 12 Is Tied to Brain Problems Later

[19wisconsin64]

Hey, we are (mostly) in the USA on this forum, where big business sort of rules most things.

Change won't occur until lots of law suits occur with big dollar payouts. Football is a multi-billion dollar sport.

A lot of Americans live in denial of things, and head injuries is just one of those things.

A while back I made a posting offering to pay a thousand dollars for a helmet that protected my brain. The response was more of one being laughed at than taken seriously.

Unfortunately I suffered some brain trauma when I was younger, and now that I am 53 it's really beginning to affect me in a not good way.

It's tough to tell kids not to play football, or to head the ball during soccer. It will tougher to let them know that we knew about the dangers but didn't warn them properly. Hope things improve.