e-Bikes...thoughts?

[stien]

I'm a pretty huge fan of the pedal assist. It will get more people riding. I think the bike paths could just put up signs saying "no motorized vehicles" (they probably already do) and we'll be fine. I ride mine to/from work 4-5 times a week on the road. Pedal assist to 20mph is no different than a wannabe racer flying down the path even faster. They do it all the time, where is the public outcry? FWIW it still takes work to keep the bike at 20mph unless you totally max out the assist, then you're only going like 5 miles.

Anyone who wants to get somewhere faster will stay off the paths around here. Too many people and tons of bumps made by roots.

[colker]

Originally Posted by stien

I'm a pretty huge fan of the pedal assist. It will get more people riding. I think the bike paths could just put up signs saying "no motorized vehicles" (they probably already do) and we'll be fine. I ride mine to/from work 4-5 times a week on the road. Pedal assist to 20mph is no different than a wannabe racer flying down the path even faster. They do it all the time, where is the public outcry? FWIW it still takes work to keep the bike at 20mph unless you totally max out the assist, then you're only going like 5 miles.

Anyone who wants to get somewhere faster will stay off the paths around here. Too many people and tons of bumps made by roots.

A wanna be racer has honed enough his handling skills to ride fast and safe. Anyone can reach high speeds on a motorized bike. Anyone can climb a mountain.. now when it comes to descend it w/ no physical preparation or experience, you are royally screwed. Next, the mountain pass is shut down fro cycling.
Ebikes are dangerous. Want to risk it? Get a motorcycle.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by fuzzalow

Depending on municipality, a scooter will almost always require registration and depending on DMV class of scooter, insurance and a motorcycle-class license qualification.

Any e-bike, as mostly undefined by DMV, is therefore untaxed, unlicensed and uninsured. Which makes it wild, wild west and any number can play.

Here, less than 50cc(most scooters are 49cc) no license, no license plate and as they haul ass on the bike lanes, no brains either.

[p nut]

Originally Posted by colker

A wanna be racer has honed enough his handling skills to ride fast and safe. Anyone can reach high speeds on a motorized bike. Anyone can climb a mountain.. now when it comes to descend it w/ no physical preparation or experience, you are royally screwed. Next, the mountain pass is shut down fro cycling.
Ebikes are dangerous. Want to risk it? Get a motorcycle.

Not to mention trying to maneuver a bike that weighs 2 to 3 times a normal bike. Luckily, I haven't seen any ebikes on my local trail where I hike with my kids. It's inevitable, though.

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Here, less than 50cc(most scooters are 49cc) no license, no license plate and as they haul ass on the bike lanes, no brains either.

Same here. 49cc, no moto endorsement needed (does need to be registered, though).

[benb]

Originally Posted by colker

A wanna be racer has honed enough his handling skills to ride fast and safe. Anyone can reach high speeds on a motorized bike. Anyone can climb a mountain.. now when it comes to descend it w/ no physical preparation or experience, you are royally screwed. Next, the mountain pass is shut down fro cycling.
Ebikes are dangerous. Want to risk it? Get a motorcycle.

Meh.. Someone who takes and passes the MSF beginner class (takes like 3 days) knows more about handling a 2 wheel vehicle than a lot of wanna be racers.

Half those Cat 4/5 pileups are cause many/most cyclists still don't understand how bikes work, they just know how to put their head down and pedal hard.

This is not an insurmountable problem, and it's going to be some time before you see eBikes climbing mountain passes and then folks crashing on the way down as the battery tech isn't really there. Besides the eBikes generally have disc brakes and flat handlebars so they are less likely to have the rider go flying off the road compared to your traditional road bike with drop bars and rim brakes.

[colker]

Originally Posted by benb

Meh.. Someone who takes and passes the MSF beginner class (takes like 3 days) knows more about handling a 2 wheel vehicle than a lot of wanna be racers.

Half those Cat 4/5 pileups are cause many/most cyclists still don't understand how bikes work, they just know how to put their head down and pedal hard.

This is not an insurmountable problem, and it's going to be some time before you see eBikes climbing mountain passes and then folks crashing on the way down as the battery tech isn't really there. Besides the eBikes generally have disc brakes and flat handlebars so they are less likely to have the rider go flying off the road compared to your traditional road bike with drop bars and rim brakes.

.. it´s the internet and if you say meh then it must be true.

[benb]

Originally Posted by colker

.. it´s the internet and if you say meh then it must be true.

Same to you.. remarks about eBikes ruining the world are typical roadie elitism.

[stien]

Originally Posted by colker

A wanna be racer has honed enough his handling skills to ride fast and safe.

I was at a crit on Saturday. Not even close to being true.

Originally Posted by colker

Anyone can reach high speeds on a motorized bike. Anyone can climb a mountain.. now when it comes to descend it w/ no physical preparation or experience, you are royally screwed.

The same could be said about cars or motorcycles. What about driving at idle speeds in a parking lot during a driving test prepares you for canyon carving? I've personally experienced way more inattentive or moronic drivers behind the wheel of a car (any kind, not just SUV) than there are bicycle riders in this town. Even an inexperienced rider could make it to the top of a mountain and have a dangerous time coming down in your scenario. Sounds like you're saying that bicycles in general are dangerous and should be left to the elite.

[shovelhd]

Originally Posted by stien

I was at a crit on Saturday. Not even close to being true.

Ninigret? I was the CR. It took me 2 1/2 hours to write up all of the occurrence reports. Three ambulance rolls. Serious injuries.

That said, it's typical early season racing. Things settle down once everyone gets some miles off of the trainer.

[jlyon]

I do believe Ebike proliferation is unstoppable.

Do we want to help them and teach then the proper ways of cycling or divide our ranks even more and in doing allow opposing factions to take away more of our current cycling choices?

Or we could just sit here and post about our greatest fears about other's lack of skills and judgment.

[colker]

Originally Posted by stien

I was at a crit on Saturday. Not even close to being true.



The same could be said about cars or motorcycles. What about driving at idle speeds in a parking lot during a driving test prepares you for canyon carving? I've personally experienced way more inattentive or moronic drivers behind the wheel of a car (any kind, not just SUV) than there are bicycle riders in this town. Even an inexperienced rider could make it to the top of a mountain and have a dangerous time coming down in your scenario. Sounds like you're saying that bicycles in general are dangerous and should be left to the elite.

MUTs became scary w/ ebikes. Problem w/them other than riders throwing themselves into way more trouble they are ready to handle.. is mixing the ebike´s high speeds and MUT leisure pace.
The hybrid nature of those things is a problem, not a solution.

[KidWok]

Originally Posted by colker

MUTs became scary w/ ebikes. Problem w/them other than riders throwing themselves into way more trouble they are ready to handle.. is mixing the ebike´s high speeds and MUT leisure pace.
The hybrid nature of those things is a problem, not a solution.

I also don't agree that e-bikes themselves are the problem. I think it was Larry the Cable Guy that said "Guns don't kill people. Husbands who come home early kill people." I don't know what it's like elsewhere, but here in Seattle, we have a large network of MUP's. I definitely see road cyclists/triathletes riding recklessly on them. E-bikes are a relatively new thing and I think we'll see a similar proportion of people using e-bikes recklessly. So the problem people being inconsiderate idiots more so than what they ride (or drive).

I do think that there will need to be some firming up of regulations. California's laws are a great place to start:



FWIW, I use a class 3 Stromer ST 1, which has a top speed of almost 30 mph. I've never bothered using it at that speed because it take quite a bit of work to get there. I typically am moving along at about 20-22 mph. There have been times when I've cut through a park or over a sidewalk to get around traffic and I'm mindful to let pedestrians have the right of way in those cases. No one has ever harassed me for riding recklessly, 'cus I don't.

And I would definitely not agree with the assumption that the zippy roadie on a MUP is a racer with finely honed handling skills. Even then, avoiding pedestrians is not the problem. Perception of recklessness is.

Tai

[classtimesailer]

Originally Posted by jlyon

I do believe Ebike proliferation is unstoppable.

Do we want to help them and teach then the proper ways of cycling or divide our ranks even more and in doing allow opposing factions to take away more of our current cycling choices?

Or we could just sit here and post about our greatest fears about other's lack of skills and judgment.

The proper way of cycling is to pedal pedal pedal. Moving a few cagers onto the MUPs and bike lanes with their reckless, don't signal, weaving in and out of lanes, with headphones, selfishness, is ruining one of my cycling choices.

[merlinmurph]

Originally Posted by colker

A wanna be racer has honed enough his handling skills to ride fast and safe.

Nah, wannabe racers have no place on a MUP if they're training and there are lots of other users on it. And like others have said, their handling skills are questionable, too. A MUP is no place to go fast, and someone on an e-bike is going to rip.

[kevinvc]

I love that they're becoming more popular. I'd bet that almost every person you see riding one would otherwise be driving a car, probably alone.

For a number of reasons, mainly health, my wife isn't able to do very much cycling. We bought her a pedal assist ebike a couple of years ago and she rides it to work when the weather is good. The rest of the time she drives a van. About 10 years ago I worked with a guy who started commuting on an ebike. After several months he had lost a ton of weight and was much healthier. He also learned that he liked cycling and bought a non-motorized bike for his commute instead.

I'm not ego driven (at least while commuting) and don't mind being passed by an out of shape looking person on an ebike. I agree that the full throttle ones are a potential hazard on MUPs, but think the Cat 6 racers are a lot worse on both the trails and the streets.