Saratoga Frameworks models

[charliedid]

Originally Posted by bloody sunday

you're always going to "look" like something else. they're objects, who cares if the badge looks like ff's. guess what? all bikes look similar

Branding sells bikes...

Notice that nobody said "I bet it rides like a Firefly"

[jbrainin]

Their logo looks like it was designed by Helen Keller. Ick.

[jpw]

Moving along, opinions about the models?

[FlashUNC]

Originally Posted by bloody sunday

you're always going to "look" like something else. they're objects, who cares if the badge looks like ff's. guess what? all bikes look similar

Couple reasons from my mkting centric brain these days. 1) This is a brand trying to start from scratch and disassociate itself from a rather contentious recent history. For that reason alone, I like some of the new logo work. It's more modern and a distinct departure from the Serotta scripts.

However, 2) This is one boutique builder in the Northeast specializing in mostly TI bikes whose branding now looks similar to another boutique builder in the Northeast who specializes in TI bikes. This isn't all that different from the problem post-war bike manufacturers faced when tube shape, lugs, etc, made it impossible to tell the difference by eyesight. Bianchi adopted that celeste color. Cinelli has that flying logo. And a Colnago isn't a Colnago without that clover somewhere on the bike.

My point is that for a brand starting from scratch, essentially, it's imperative they have a clean break from the past and -- more importantly -- have a unique voice in the marketplace. If you can look at the logo and your first thought it "Hey, they remind me of X, or Y or Z" competitor, then it's a mis-step, plain and simple. They needed something that isn't a distillation of all the design queues their competitors are using or the trends of the moment, but something uniquely theirs.

Originally Posted by jpw

Moving along, opinions about the models?

Branding aside, I think they've done a great job with the models. They seem to be hitting all the sweet spots. The big question, of course, will be pricing.

[bloody sunday]

Originally Posted by FlashUNC

Couple reasons from my mkting centric brain these days. 1) This is a brand trying to start from scratch and disassociate itself from a rather contentious recent history. For that reason alone, I like some of the new logo work. It's more modern and a distinct departure from the Serotta scripts.

However, 2) This is one boutique builder in the Northeast specializing in mostly TI bikes whose branding now looks similar to another boutique builder in the Northeast who specializes in TI bikes. This isn't all that different from the problem post-war bike manufacturers faced when tube shape, lugs, etc, made it impossible to tell the difference by eyesight. Bianchi adopted that celeste color. Cinelli has that flying logo. And a Colnago isn't a Colnago without that clover somewhere on the bike.

My point is that for a brand starting from scratch, essentially, it's imperative they have a clean break from the past and -- more importantly -- have a unique voice in the marketplace. If you can look at the logo and your first thought it "Hey, they remind me of X, or Y or Z" competitor, then it's a mis-step, plain and simple. They needed something that isn't a distillation of all the design queues their competitors are using or the trends of the moment, but something uniquely theirs.



Branding aside, I think they've done a great job with the models. They seem to be hitting all the sweet spots. The big question, of course, will be pricing.

excellent points

[charliedid]

Originally Posted by FlashUNC

Couple reasons from my mkting centric brain these days. 1) This is a brand trying to start from scratch and disassociate itself from a rather contentious recent history. For that reason alone, I like some of the new logo work. It's more modern and a distinct departure from the Serotta scripts.

However, 2) This is one boutique builder in the Northeast specializing in mostly TI bikes whose branding now looks similar to another boutique builder in the Northeast who specializes in TI bikes. This isn't all that different from the problem post-war bike manufacturers faced when tube shape, lugs, etc, made it impossible to tell the difference by eyesight. Bianchi adopted that celeste color. Cinelli has that flying logo. And a Colnago isn't a Colnago without that clover somewhere on the bike.

My point is that for a brand starting from scratch, essentially, it's imperative they have a clean break from the past and -- more importantly -- have a unique voice in the marketplace. If you can look at the logo and your first thought it "Hey, they remind me of X, or Y or Z" competitor, then it's a mis-step, plain and simple. They needed something that isn't a distillation of all the design queues their competitors are using or the trends of the moment, but something uniquely theirs.



Branding aside, I think they've done a great job with the models. They seem to be hitting all the sweet spots. The big question, of course, will be pricing.

Exactly!

I will add that branding isn't everything...in this case it is very very important. Otherwise they are forever going to be that Co. that sort of used to be Serotta, kind of.

It's also similar to hearing a new band all your friends are talking about and thinking, it sounds a lot like so and so and a little like that other band...

If they did all this early legwork in-house good for them. They did a pretty remarkable job so far, on such short notice on all fronts IMO.

I wish them well and look forward to the future.

Now is the time to get the branding done right and set yourself apart.

[choke]

Originally Posted by jpw

Moving along, opinions about the models?

Once I saw PF30 BB I knew they weren't for me.

[pbarry]

The bikes look great, tho I can't read the brand/logo on my tablet..

How does the new Co. come up with three contemporary products in less than two months, when B.W., (presumably), had to arm wrestle B.S. for 7 months to get the Pronto on the production line? Rhetorical question. It was time for a change.

[old fat man]

I don't get how you come up with a whole new brand, image, models, etc. but don't have pricing? Even if they are affordable, that's off putting, to know they are not willing to stamp a price on them from the start.

[roguedog]

whomever said "meh," i'm with you.

not nearly as cool, slick or clean as the firefly presentation. firefly did it right. this seems too cludgy to me.

course as others have said, if pricing comes in.. i might be able took the other way, depending

[Jack Brunk]

this new start up company in the same sentence as Firefly is stupid and an insult to Firefly.

Gag me, not one of those frames even remotely looks like a Fly.

[dave thompson]

Originally Posted by Jack Brunk

this new start up company in the same sentence as Firefly is stupid and an insult to Firefly.

Gag me, not one of those frames even remotely look like a Fly.

The bikes don't but their logo is very reminiscent.

[bloody sunday]

Originally Posted by Jack Brunk

this new start up company in the same sentence as Firefly is stupid and an insult to Firefly.

Gag me, not one of those frames even remotely look like a Fly.

couple guys from serotta - sure, they're a new company, but with professionals with years of experience.

firefly is a relatively new company AFAIK - but they have some guys with boat loads of experience. IMO they should be mentioned in the same sentence.

[Jack Brunk]

Originally Posted by bloody sunday

couple guys from serotta - sure, they're a new company, but with professionals with years of experience.

firefly is a relatively new company AFAIK - but they have some guys with boat loads of experience. IMO they should be mentioned in the same sentence.

Sorry, not to get a ···· match but please do your homework. The guys at Firefly have welded and designed 10,000++ frames plus. Please people, please do some homework before you come to class. Not quite sure why this pisses me off but it does.

JB

[gasman]

Originally Posted by Jack Brunk

Sorry, not to get a ···· match but please do your homework. The guys at Firefly have welded and designed 10,000++ frames plus. Please people, please do some homework before you come to class. Not quite sure why this pisses me off but it does.

JB

I've never seen Jack pissed off-so he is on to something worth listening to.