Serotta lays off 40% of workforce, planning shutdown

[pdmtong]

it's simple.

make a product that people want.

make sure your revenue exceeds your cost.

fail on both counts.

there was a time....colorado-2007 when their light shined bright...all hail that time

[bluesea]

Originally Posted by TopQuark

• We are maniacal about frame tolerances. Serotta frames are the best aligned in the industry – period.

This is a significant 35% of the reason I have a *stock* geometry Atlanta.

[ultraman6970]

Yes, but to keep with the cost of R&D you have to sell a lot or have a product that will sale as hot bread too.

Hope the brand comes back.

Originally Posted by happycampyer

The marketing is brash and understandably off-putting but, aside from "inventing fitting," whatever that means, the rest of the claims are basically true. As others noted, however, the vertical integration necessary to make many of these claims true (owning their own carbon facility, cnc'ing all of their own parts, etc.), plus the obsessive manufacturing standards and testing, have contributed to a cost structure that is out of whack.

[Bob Ross]

Originally Posted by TopQuark

• We also offer an insane number of finish choices – over a billion options!

I attended a lecture by Carl Sagan in the late 70s or early 80s...he spent a good 15 minutes riffing on how immensely huge the number "one billion" is. I realize Serotta has a lot of finish options but Imma call BS on this claim.

Originally Posted by TopQuark

• A Serotta titanium frame, handcrafted in our U.S. facility, is straighter and more precise than any frame of any material you can buy.

There was some interesting discussion on frame tolerances in one (several?) of the Smoked Out threads across the hall, and from the numbers being tossed about there I got the impression that A) there are a handful of well-respected builders who can and do match the straightness and precision of any company anywhere; and B) at some point it raises the question "how precise does a frame need to be?" Will a frame that's built to tolerances of 0.0001" be in any demonstrable and perceptible way inferior to one that's built to tolerances of 0.00001" ?

[dancinkozmo]

Originally Posted by Bob Ross

I attended a lecture by Carl Sagan in the late 70s or early 80s...he spent a good 15 minutes riffing on how immensely huge the number "one billion" is. I realize Serotta has a lot of finish options but Imma call BS on this claim

ever play the "Cosmos" drinking game ; where you chug a beer everytime he says "billions and billions" ??

[Ray]

Wow, my weekly check of the formerly Serotta forum brings this fairly momentous news. I've never owned a Serotta, but have been on this forum, to one extent or another, since 1998 or 1999 or something. There was a time I wanted a Serotta, about when the Legend was the top of the line. When it came time to buy my own first custom, I went with a Spectrum because it seemed like a better value at the time - fit and designed by the man himself rather than a client shop and significantly less expensive on top of that. But I still had in the back of my mind that I'd like to have a Serotta someday.

Then, as many others have mentioned with much more solid and detailed arguments, came the Meivici (I don't even know if I'm spelling that right) at around $8000 frame and fork. I knew then I'd never own a Serotta. I have absolutely zero knowledge of business practices, but my gut was HIGHLY dubious of the sustainability of a business that had to sell $8000 framesets to get by. That was as deep as my analysis ever went, but it seems to have been at least partly right. I'm sure there's a lot more to it than that, but I was part of the market/demographic that Serotta made its reputation appealing to. Then they priced me out of their market and even sort of offended my sensibilities on some level. I'm obviously not the only person who didn't buy a Mevieci and stopped considering a Serotta after that.

I'm sorry for some of the nice folks I met who worked there, but I'm not shocked or ever particularly surprised. I remember when Jerry Garcia died some of my fellow Deadheads thought it was the end of the world - I was pretty sure it wasn't and life seems to have gone on pretty well regardless. Serotta too will fade into a pretty nice memory for a lot of people. Life will go on and there will be plenty of great bikes to buy...

-Ray

[Climb01742]

Originally Posted by Ray

Wow, my weekly check of the formerly Serotta forum brings this fairly momentous news. I've never owned a Serotta, but have been on this forum, to one extent or another, since 1998 or 1999 or something. There was a time I wanted a Serotta, about when the Legend was the top of the line. When it came time to buy my own first custom, I went with a Spectrum because it seemed like a better value at the time - fit and designed by the man himself rather than a client shop and significantly less expensive on top of that. But I still had in the back of my mind that I'd like to have a Serotta someday.

Then, as many others have mentioned with much more solid and detailed arguments, came the Meivici (I don't even know if I'm spelling that right) at around $8000 frame and fork. I knew then I'd never own a Serotta. I have absolutely zero knowledge of business practices, but my gut was HIGHLY dubious of the sustainability of a business that had to sell $8000 framesets to get by. That was as deep as my analysis ever went, but it seems to have been at least partly right. I'm sure there's a lot more to it than that, but I was part of the market/demographic that Serotta made its reputation appealing to. Then they priced me out of their market and even sort of offended my sensibilities on some level. I'm obviously not the only person who didn't buy a Mevieci and stopped considering a Serotta after that.

I'm sorry for some of the nice folks I met who worked there, but I'm not shocked or ever particularly surprised. I remember when Jerry Garcia died some of my fellow Deadheads thought it was the end of the world - I was pretty sure it wasn't and life seems to have gone on pretty well regardless. Serotta too will fade into a pretty nice memory for a lot of people. Life will go on and there will be plenty of great bikes to buy...

-Ray

ray, you made your weekly visit a good one. you put it well. the closing of serotta is a human sadness, but not a business one. the brand has been irrelevant to many for many years. its passing is due to self-inflicted wounds. luckily, there are many builders today who are relevant to, and fulfilling of, our passions for crafted cycles. but i do sincerely hope the shop floor employees of serotta find new jobs. they did nothing wrong.

[buddybikes]

Have to chime in on "exacting standards", I have a Saratoga built Fat Chance ti built in 1999. Nice frame yes, however the seat tube was not reamed to "exacting standards" it is supposed to be 29.4, but no seat post of that size fits, micrometered it and ended up 29.2, pain in the ass to get a decent post. Could get it do another builder to re-ream but didn't bother.

[Pete Mckeon]

Originally Posted by Pete Mckeon

The world always is moving foward!

Enjoy riding and keep a smile,

[Doug Fattic]

I'm wondering if part of the problem is that Serotta is selling expensive race frames/bikes and that market is continually diminishing. I'm guessing that most guys successful enough in life (another way of saying older) to lay out significant money for a bicycle aren't going to use it for training rides mms off of someone else's wheel. Maybe they ride it aggressively by themselves but more likely their speed is going to be under 20mph (probably more like 15) rather than over it. Their preferred handlebar position is much more likely to be closer to level with their seat than 10 cm down. Now of course I hear criticism all the time on this forum about Dentists buying Serottas designed with handlebars too high but I'm pretty sure they wouldn't make a sale if set up in a true racing position. Most Americans are not as slim in middle age as they were in their younger days and their choice of bicycle is going to reflect this.

Of course I'm in a different market but nobody in my framebuilding classes is interested in bicycle racing or racing bicycles. The subject doesn't come up. It did in the age of toe clips and straps but not now. They want to make something that takes the place of a car with wider more comfortable tires, racks, fenders and lights. And they want to look around and not down so a typical handlebar drop is 3 to 5 cm. So I'm suggesting that the market for high end expensive racing bicycles is getting more limited.

[likebikes]

Any one have an idea of how many meivici frames were made/sold?

[jlwdm]

Originally Posted by Doug Fattic

?.

.. So I'm suggesting that the market for high end expensive racing bicycles is getting more limited.

Not what I see. I think more high end expensive racing bikes are being sold than ever before. It is just that a lot of them are being sold by big companies.

Jeff

[SPOKE]

Originally Posted by likebikes

Any one have an idea of how many meivici frames were made/sold?

I know where at least three are inthe Raleigh NC area...

[Charles M]

Originally Posted by CunegoFan

What does carbon experience mean these days? I picked up a Blue catalog at an Ironman. It was filled with bars, stems, saddles, duffel bags, back scratchers, nose hair clippers, etc., all labeled with Blue's house brand. It looked like they had gone to a Taiwanese bike show and picked fifty products to slap a label on. I would not be surprised if their frames are the same.

In that case you'll be surprised that they're not the same...



Hopefully they get ina spot where I'll post up more, but both the Axino and AC1 and their Tri/TT bikes are their own models and pretty damn nice bikes... Some similarity in that the company needed a restructure, but their story is quite a bit easier to figure out (and hopefully to turn round). They have one of the better product dev guys in the market and hopefully are rolling shortly.

[BumbleBeeDave]

That is a really smart looking bike. But I would be curious about your take on what they offer besides snappy paint jobs.

BBD