First Road Bike Ruminations - point me in the right direction

[br0qn]

I'm (almost) ready to get serious about a road bike.

my cycling journey is still pretty fresh having, in a relatively short period of time, gone from riding a 26" rigid mtb for light commuting -> turned quickly to riding that build on the nearby single track -> turned quickly to wanting a bike that can ride better to the single track and on it -> enter the voodoo loa, a 90's CX bike i've got set up as a do nearly everything bike. Funnily I've found the dropbars on single track frightening though*so i've since been road/gravel/mixed riding and single track rides are not frequent and saved for the mtb.

since i got a wahoo computer 4 months ago i've logged 1k miles and 50k feet of climbing. goals this year include more miles, I picked 7k as something that seems doable and a good step up from LY. also, i can ride out the front door and be in the Santa Monica Mountains in under 2 hours so much more climbing being another goal. i'll soon add power/HR to the metrics and start some more structured training so i can better prepare myself for other on-the-bike goals like riding some gran fondos, several centuries and maybe a double century by EoY ?

The voodoo was a really fun project and has been great for my riding thus far. i ride 700x32s for mostly*paved rides and for mostly gravel rides it gets 700x38s. i rode some 700x35 slicks for a while too and loved the versatility but I have to imagine a dedicated road bike will be more enjoyable for the longer, 100% paved rides i've been gravitating towards. shorter stays and a lower bb must be nice!

targeted kind of riding
_my daily out and back route allows for constant pedal mashing a bike path for ~40 miles, perfect for uninterrupted low intensity/flat miles and about 5 miles to/from the path
_big days in the mountains, drew up a 130 mile round trip loop out my door into the mountains with ~12k feet of climbing. the kind of ride i'd like to do at least once a month.
_i've also got a few hills within a couple of miles that are great for training/ higher intensity reps. one is a half mile long, 300 foot climb 10-11% average.

non-negotiables
_sloping TT - maybe that's silly, i imagine most options will be anyway but i appreciate the standover clearance and extra seatpost is a bonus
_rim brake - i may be a luddite but i think i'll get on fine with an 11spd group and rim brakes. i don't feel like messing with hydraulics and i have most of an 11spd group cobbled together already
_provisions*for full mechanical - i don't want to charge any part of my bicycle
_28mm tire clearance minimum - i've been enjoying the cush titanium frame with 32's and latex tubes and some of the surfaces aren't pleasant even then. hard to imagine going down to 25s and being comfortable for 100 miles on a stiff frame (which i believe i want)


open to frame material
I'm a light rider at 135lbs with probably laughably low power output but i still feel the bb flex on the voodoo so i'll register that as a mild complaint and something i'd like improved*upon for the dedicated road bike.

i was really stuck on steel/ti for*a bit but i had a beautiful caad pass through my hands that was way too big but opened my eyes a bit and i've come around and began lusting over some carbon frames too.

i've had my eyes on (found images/inspirations)

litespeed - circa '05-'08 (?) any of the 1 1/8" HT, non integrated HS frames ie. ghisallo, icon, vortex compact and even the teramo/siena

nice ghisallo


ryanH's Siena


a compact vortex with wild shaped 6/4 tubes



ritchey road logic - these 2nd hand seem like a great bargain and meet all the criteria and seem universally loved for what they are



focus izalco max - among those carbon frames i'd die to ride and something like a '15-'17' seem to hit the market often enough for not a lot of money Muffin Man's looks rad




cannondale- supersix ? six13 ? caadx? i'm open again so long as it meets the criteria




scapin - the sloping tt EOS models look super cool, ultra foco tubeset and i guess they came with a woundup from the factory.


this thing has me super curious too and looks the right size but i don't know about clearance and for not having a fork it's not inexpensive.



merlin - aeglis or one of the rare 6/4 CR works frames- merlins are so classy but are these suited to my goals? no idea


Lugged/round tube carbon like Look or Parlee - though these maybe max out at 700x25 ?

z0 rim



setve0's beautiful 585 is an inspiration and hes managed 28's on modern rims




other notes
_obviously i have my aesthetic tastes and the look is important or i wouldn't have filled the thread with pics.
_threaded BB would be nice but not requisite. i have a new in box red22 gxp crank to use and tools to service threaded bb myself.
_the voodoo has a 535mm effective TT and it seems to be pretty right on how i have it set up presently though i really need to get a bike fit done sooner than later
_there are a million road bikes i'd love to own at some point, but for the sake of keeping my stable to 3 bikes in total for now, 1x 26" hard tail, 1x "gravel" bike that is the voodoo and 1x all-around road bike, this one needs to be "the one"
_in my mind i'll be riding alloy clinchers
_while i appreciate in advance the links to bikes on marketplaces that i should be buying, i'm looking for a discussion here.

the dream? a custom stelbl or something, but i'm not there with the $ anytime soon and I wouldn't even be able to fully appreciate such a thing yet.


what else should i be considering?

These are just some bikes that have caught my attention for one reason or another.
Of these i have my sites on is there a standout for what i'm after?
largely it will come down to what i can get my hands on and at what price i'm sure but if y'all have any thoughts or suggestions or ride reports or direction for me, please chime in.
obviously anything is better than nothing but nuance is fun.
i'm not looking to move on anything at this moment ($0 bike budget as of today) but i want to make a short list of bikes to hunt when that changes (hopefully soon)

cheers!

[Likes2ridefar]

Those all look like fantastic bikes and I doubt you could go wrong with any.

Personally I wouldn’t consider a bike anymore that can’t take at least in the 30s. There is no reason to beat yourself up on narrow low volume tires that offer no performance gains. They don’t stop as quickly, easier to flat on rough roads, and don’t ride as smooth.

I also think a gravel or all road bike setup as a road bike is very comparable to a road bike for most ride types.

[Turkle]

Suggestion: I think for a first road bike, the most important thing isn't really which model bike you buy... It's buying a bike that actually fits you.

I think everyone, with their first road bike, buys the wrong size. After a lot of suffering, then we buy the correct size for our next bike, or at least closer to it.

Anyway, I think the best thing you could do is find a qualified fitter and have them make their recommendation based on what they see. I bought my latest bike on the advice of a fitter and it's been awesome. Totally dialed.

[gbcoupe]

All of those look good. I'd of course pick one of the Scapin's, but neither the EOS-7 nor the Dyesys will fit larger than 25's. There's an eBay seller that I think still has a med Dyesys, NOS. It would come with the fork and seatpost.

[br0qn]

Originally Posted by Likes2ridefar

Personally I wouldn’t consider a bike anymore that can’t take at least in the 30s. There is no reason to beat yourself up on narrow low volume tires that offer no performance gains. They don’t stop as quickly, easier to flat on rough roads, and don’t ride as smooth.

thanks for weighing in!

i hear you there but i think part of the comfort equation has to take into account the bike being overbuilt for disc brakes and deep/stiff carbon wheelsets, no? in otherwords, a 700x28 tire on a plush steel rim brake frame can ride comparably or more comfortable even(?) than 30's on a super stiff frame with super stiff wheels.

anyway, i'd love clearance for 30s! but it narrows the options considerably further than 28s. part of wanting an alloy wheel/rim brake/mechanical group bike is they're flooding the market and are seemingly good value right now. rim brake frames with clearance for 30's ... what fits that bill apart from a Road Logic?

Originally Posted by Likes2ridefar

I also think a gravel or all road bike setup as a road bike is very comparable to a road bike for most ride types.

that's the voodoo presently really but i'd like to add a proper road bike so i'm not switching tires every other day depending on what i want to ride. i thought for a moment about just having a dedicated road wheelset or something but the voodoo rear has 135 spacing so that complicates things a bit. also i do spin out at the top end of the gear range though the 20" low gear is clutch for the climbs around here. the main things i'd like to experience i mentioned are shorter chain stays and a lower bb, particularly for climbing/descending. also i'll bet there are handling/ride quality gains to be had from going to a larger than 1" HT that is on the voodoo.

[br0qn]

Originally Posted by gbcoupe

All of those look good. I'd of course pick one of the Scapin's, but neither the EOS-7 nor the Dyesys will fit larger than 25's. There's an eBay seller that I think still has a med Dyesys, NOS. It would come with the fork and seatpost.

bummer! i guess the scapin would be out unless they have some magical quality that would make them just fine on a 100 mile ride on 25s.

i think i know which seller on ebay you're referring to, i got my colnago canti fork (on the voodoo) from that guy, great seller.

Originally Posted by Turkle

Suggestion: I think for a first road bike, the most important thing isn't really which model bike you buy... It's buying a bike that actually fits you.

I think everyone, with their first road bike, buys the wrong size. After a lot of suffering, then we buy the correct size for our next bike, or at least closer to it.

Anyway, I think the best thing you could do is find a qualified fitter and have them make their recommendation based on what they see. I bought my latest bike on the advice of a fitter and it's been awesome. Totally dialed.

totally part of the plan. i lucked out on the voodoo and there hasn't been any suffering even after a 70+ mile ride, and i don't even have bibs!

certainly appreciate your insight though. i want to get in with a fitter on the voodoo and get some numbers before pulling any triggers.

[jimcav]

congrats on 1k miles. My desired road bike changed significantly between 1k and 10k (initially Alu then to and then Ti to steel). Somewhere in the next 10k I started trying various next-great-thing carbon and ever lighter steel.

So, don't spend too much--get something very affordable you like now--it is unlikely to be your forever bike. Your strength, flexibility, and endurance may change and impact what "fit" feels best.

Does "LA" mean the state or the city? Depending on road conditions, I'd not worry about tire size. I rode easily over 100k miles on 23 to 25c tires with only a handful of flats (maybe needing both hands to count them) between roads in DC metro (DC, MD,VA), WA, and CA. Reason being it likely won't be the bike you keep. Caveat being that disc brakes and wider tires is the rig de jour, so if resale is a factor, then it is a consideration.

of what you listed, I'd choose the Ritchey. all obviously IMHO

[avalonracing]

I had a Merlin CR. Fantastic bike which I sold to a friend (I should have kept it). He has been running 28c tires with it. I had the 3/2.5 version in large with a huge downtube (tubing was size-specific). I read that the 3/2.5 is a smoother ride than the 6/4.

[gbcoupe]

Originally Posted by br0qn

bummer! i guess the scapin would be out unless they have some magical quality that would make them just fine on a 100 mile ride on 25s.

i think i know which seller on ebay you're referring to, i got my colnago canti fork (on the voodoo) from that guy, great seller.



totally part of the plan. i lucked out on the voodoo and there hasn't been any suffering even after a 70+ mile ride, and i don't even have bibs!

certainly appreciate your insight though. i want to get in with a fitter on the voodoo and get some numbers before pulling any triggers.

The Dyesys is a wonderful ride on 25's. It's probably the best all around bike I have, factoring comfort, handling and weight. And I have a few bikes. Couldn't tell you how many century rides I've done on it. Get the best fit and value you can, but I wouldn't rule out the Dyesys for tire size.

[AngryScientist]

No22 Great Divide has your name all over it.

Most good road bikes meet your general criteria though. Remember the grand tour riders log big miles day after day, and bikes just keep getting better every year.

You should add to the criteria a decent way to carry some gear. If you want to do big long unsupported rides regularly, the ability to carry some real food, enough water and some layers is a good idea, especially if you're regularly traversing from sea level into the mountains. If you ride small frames like I do, some of the modern bikepacking bags just wont work because of space limitations, just something to consider.

I admire your enthusiasm and plans for the future. Wish you the best luck on the journey. Most of us have been happily riding the wrong bike for the job for years and the reality is you can make most any bike do the job you want it to if you bring the legs and lungs

[Likes2ridefar]

Originally Posted by br0qn

thanks for weighing in!

i hear you there but i think part of the comfort equation has to take into account the bike being overbuilt for disc brakes and deep/stiff carbon wheelsets, no? in otherwords, a 700x28 tire on a plush steel rim brake frame can ride comparably or more comfortable even(?) than 30's on a super stiff frame with super stiff wheels.

anyway, i'd love clearance for 30s! but it narrows the options considerably further than 28s. part of wanting an alloy wheel/rim brake/mechanical group bike is they're flooding the market and are seemingly good value right now. rim brake frames with clearance for 30's ... what fits that bill apart from a Road Logic?



that's the voodoo presently really but i'd like to add a proper road bike so i'm not switching tires every other day depending on what i want to ride. i thought for a moment about just having a dedicated road wheelset or something but the voodoo rear has 135 spacing so that complicates things a bit. also i do spin out at the top end of the gear range though the 20" low gear is clutch for the climbs around here. the main things i'd like to experience i mentioned are shorter chain stays and a lower bb, particularly for climbing/descending. also i'll bet there are handling/ride quality gains to be had from going to a larger than 1" HT that is on the voodoo.

It’s probably why I’d get a disc bike all road or modern road set frame that takes a bit more clearance. I think tire pressure and volume trumps frame and fork material.

But I think angry nailed it with the no22. You’ll save in the long run??

[nmrt]

I disagree. In my experience tire pressure and volume does not trump frame material when it is made by excellent Ti bike manufacturers. A nice riding bike (rim brakes and 1 1/8 HT) like the Merlin Extralight or a Serotta Legend or a Bingham Built or a Desalvo will ride spectacularly well with 25 mm tires.

A well made Ti bike is a well made Ti bike. It's quality will shine even with 25 mm tires. Yes, will the bike ride more plush with 30 mm tires. Possibly. But would I desire that plushness? For me, no. The bike will already be plush enough with 25 mm tires.

Originally Posted by Likes2ridefar

It’s probably why I’d get a disc bike all road or modern road set frame that takes a bit more clearance. I think tire pressure and volume trumps frame and fork material.

But I think angry nailed it with the no22. You’ll save in the long run??

[Jdm]

I recommend focusing on two criteria for a first road bike:

1. Tire clearance for 32mm and running tubeless for lower air pressure. I think it's game-changing for comfort, speed, and flats.

2. You want to look at it every day because it's so beautiful. Make it a special bike.

[Peter P.]

Get the Ritchey Road Logic. Budget price, high quality, great reputation, fits 28's.

[Likes2ridefar]

Originally Posted by nmrt

I disagree. In my experience tire pressure and volume does not trump frame material when it is made by excellent Ti bike manufacturers. A nice riding bike (rim brakes and 1 1/8 HT) like the Merlin Extralight or a Serotta Legend or a Bingham Built or a Desalvo will ride spectacularly well with 25 mm tires.

A well made Ti bike is a well made Ti bike. It's quality will shine even with 25 mm tires. Yes, will the bike ride more plush with 30 mm tires. Possibly. But would I desire that plushness? For me, no. The bike will already be plush enough with 25 mm tires.

Owned a few titanium rim bikes including that exact Merlin and serotta. Plus a seven, an IF, currently borrow a top of the line 6/4 litespeed (disc though) when I visit my parents, and a few Chinese brands. I’ll take the higher volume tires, thanks.

I wish it weren’t the case because life would be simpler with cables and a metal frame but I can’t forget the ride quality and increased confidence and safety a larger tire provides.