Chainline/drivetrain issue and question. SOLVED!

[-dustin]

Originally Posted by Clancy

Common that a derailleur hanger is not stiff enough?

common? no.

[commonguy001]

Originally Posted by Clancy

Last night I replaced the cable and housing just to make sure that the problem isn't caused by the cable housing being cut too short and causing increased tension when shifting up to the large chainring.

Problem remained.

With the bike in the stand I then had my wife pedal and shift as I observed the guide pully's alignment. And sure enough, the guide pulley moves ever so slightly inboard every time.

Reminder, the bike uses full cable housing.

The current set-up uses a new Rival 1 rear derailleur, new Rival 22 Hydro shifters, new SRAM Red 11-32 cassette, new Shimano chain.

The derailleur is a Rival 1 obviously intended for a 1X set-up. I assumed it wouldn't matter if it's used in a 2X set-up - I thought what does the rear derailleur care what's happening up front?

Is the Rival 1 derailleur the issue?

Because! Here's the other piece, the bike was doing the exact thing when I first built it up using SRAM Force 2x10 shifters and a SRAM X-9 rear derailleur. Exact same symptoms.

Where the Rival 1 is designed for a 1X set-up, the X-9 is designed for a 2X and the cable pull ratio is correct to use with Force shifters.

And, I had installed that groupset on a Gunnar Hyper-X and the shifting on that bike was perfect. When I purchased the Salsa Vaya Ti, I transferred the groupset from the Gunnar to the Salsa and the problems began.

So now I believe it's a soft derailleur hanger. The hanger is the stock one that came on the bike. I'm going to order a replacement from Wheels Manufacturing, not Salsa.

I also ordered a Rival mid cage derailleur to eliminate the Rival 1 as the issue.

Common that a derailleur hanger is not stiff enough?

Money down a rabbit hole

This guy on Ebay sells a really nice machined version for your bike that is only 15 bucks. I've used the same hanger with great luck. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Derailleur-...item2c9d42dc99

Also - I think trying a Rival Mid Cage is a great idea.

[Jaybee]

I don't think the issue is just the Rival 1 RD, since you had issues with X9 as well, but SRAM 1x specific RD's don't play well with 2x setups. The geometry is different, and there isn't nearly as much vertical movement in the parallelogram.

[yetitotheheady]

Originally Posted by Jaybee

I don't think the issue is just the Rival 1 RD, since you had issues with X9 as well, but SRAM 1x specific RD's don't play well with 2x setups. The geometry is different, and there isn't nearly as much vertical movement in the parallelogram.

I'm in agreement here a Sram 1x specific rear derailleurs will definitely not work with a 2x setup.

It is strange that he had the same problem with his 10spd Force/X9 setup. That works for sure, well... unless its a old 9spd X9 rear der.

[Clancy]

The X9 is 10 speed and worked fine as a 2x10 set up on a Gunnar.

I'm honed in on the hanger as the issue since I can clearly see the alignment of the derailleur move inboard as I shift up to big chainring, than move back to correct alignment when I shift down. I have a new hanger coming as well as a standard Rival rear derailleur. I'll report back once they arrive and installed.

[zank]

I would have a shop do a quick check with a hook tool and make sure the rear end is in plane.

[Clancy]

Only alignment tool I know of is the Park FAG-2. Assume same thing?

[zank]

Yes.

[Mikej]

Does sram use a b-tension type screw?

[Peter P.]

Clancy-you better post what you find out with the new hanger/derailleur. I'm losing sleep over this!

[yetitotheheady]

Originally Posted by Peter P.

Clancy-you better post what you find out with the new hanger/derailleur. I'm losing sleep over this!

Same here I wish I could see what is happening and want to know what the solution ends up being.

I'd be blown away if it is a chainline issue, highly doubt it. Hanger maybe but something doesn't sound right from what you described.

Ok this sounds crazy and I feel even strange asking but... You aren't using brake housing in lieu of shifting housing by accident?

[Clancy]

To recap

New Salsa Ti Vaya frame. First built up with SRAM Force that came off of a Gunnar Hyper-X. Shifted fine on the Gunnar, not so on the Salsa.

Problem - if rear derailleur is adjusted correctly in the small chainring, when shifted to the big, shifting is off. Hesitates and acts if the hanger is bent.

Fixes - hanger alignment checked, perfect. Installed new housing (full housing), new cable, checked alignment of derailleur guide pulley (30-40 times!).

Still no good.

Installed a Rival 22 hydro disc brake set-up with Rival 1 rear derailleur and a White Industries sub compact crankset.

Shifting still off - going crazy. Post problems on Paceline.

A brilliant recommendation.... check to see if hanger is moving by having someone pedal and shift while I observe from the back. Bingo! Hanger noticeably moves inward as bike is shifted up to the big chainring.

Order a new hanger from https://www.ebay.com/itm/Derailleur-...item2c9d42dc99. Arrives and is beautiful! Installed. Eliminates 90% of the issue!

I now suspect the remaining 10% is due to me trying to make the Rival 1 derailleur work with a 2X set up.

Install a Force22 rear derailleur- bike shifts perfect!

Problem all along? A soft derailleur hanger that was flexing under load. I've never seen that. Scores of bent or misaligned but never one that is too soft.

Thanks to everyone, particularly the recommendation to observe the hanger while shifting and the tip on the aftermarket hanger.

[-dustin]

i've seen a few hangers bend while being ridden, owned one myself, but none have ever had the elasticity to basically revert back to normal. that's an odd one. post a picture of the hanger? i'm curious as to what it looks like.

[BdaGhisallo]

Originally Posted by Clancy

Problem all along? A soft derailleur hanger that was flexing under load. I've never seen that. Scores of bent or misaligned but never one that is too soft.

Thanks to everyone, particularly the recommendation to observe the hanger while shifting and the tip on the aftermarket hanger.

A fair number of ProTour teams get their sponsors to make their frames with one piece non-replaceable hangers or get special hangers made and fitted because they find the stock hangers and dropouts too soft. Trek did this for a while for their teams.