Why is the Campagnolo WRL discounted?

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by Wakatel_Luum

Jeez that's a reach! The time period your describing is 1986-88.

Shimano has done some doozies too from the same period.

sram too, as both 'S' brands continue to orphan their 'high end' groups..like Di2 DA 10s....and sram 10s etap...and rim brake anything...

I guess nobody remembers DA 7 and 8s.....completely unique and not compatible with anything even w/i Shimano's lineup.

[Gabe77]

Originally Posted by osbk67

Campagnolo has long released new products that were poorly conceived and/or executed, only to refine, improve or replace them in following years and seemingly recover well.

I’m thinking Delta brakes, SGR pedals, Syncro 1 and 2, first generation Athena, probably early EPS (no first hand experience) etc. etc.

I expect first gen. SRL wireless with its morbidly obese front and rear changers will fall into the same category but the stakes look higher and its absence from the World Tour concerns me more for their future than anything.

All companies have hit & miss products. Problem is that many of those old mistakes like delta were in the golden era when C could afford the mistakes. In the modern era developing products is a huge cost compared to the old draughtsman-with-Tsquare style design process.

[avalonracing]

We should think about the fact that even at half price it is a damn expensive bike. We all become accustomed to thinking that $5000 is an entry-level Shimano 105 bike as manufacturers figured out that we'd just keep paying whatever price put on the high-end stuff.

[Clean39T]

Originally Posted by avalonracing

We should think about the fact that even at half price it is a damn expensive bike. We all become accustomed to thinking that $5000 is an entry-level Shimano 105 bike as manufacturers figured out that we'd just keep paying whatever price put on the high-end stuff.

I mean, you’re not wrong - but have you been to a grocery store lately?

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by Gabe77

All companies have hit & miss products. Problem is that many of those old mistakes like delta were in the golden era when C could afford the mistakes. In the modern era developing products is a huge cost compared to the old draughtsman-with-Tsquare style design process.

Ah, another who has never installed, and set up and then actually used Delta brakes...

[saab2000]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Ah, another who has never installed, and set up and then actually used Delta brakes...

I had Delta brakes and very much enjoyed them. But then I graduated to their first generation dual pivots and they were actually way better brakes. Legit good even by today’s standards. The Deltas were fun to look at and I had no issues overall. But great brakes they were not. They were, to paraphrase Rolls Royce, ‘sufficient’. My biggest beef with them was that they tended to squeal and there didn’t seem to be any rhyme or reason on when it would happen or how to eliminate this. Seemed to be as dependent upon that day’s temperature and dew point as much as anything.

They were certainly better than the Modolos they replaced!

[Gabe77]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Ah, another who has never installed, and set up and then actually used Delta brakes...

That challenge precedes my time... My current challenge is hacking Record EPS cabling to work with Chorus/Athena derailleurs.
Every few years I see "Campagnolo is dying" articles and discussions such as this. I jumped into C with 11 spd after riding DA/Ultegra on 10. I'm definitely happy with it, my main bike is Record/Chorus mechanical.
Campagnolo looks a lot like Schwinn - if you know the story of the grandkid genius who ruined that family business to become a cheese salesman. The 3rd generation destroys what the first 2 built up. I thought with Potenza they hit a perfect product balance but of course they had to bollox that up by doing another product discontinuity. Their crippleware and user hostile design ****s me to no end.
BTW shifting systems shouldn't need cables or wireless - they should have electric conduits baked into the frame so you can just plug every component directly where its mounted. Same thing with hydro - have bundy tubes plumbed into the frame and couple with just a short flexible hose run. The RD should also not need a battery at all but be powered by a dynamo running off the jockey wheel. To hell with SRAM's patent thicket! How's that for innovation?

[glepore]

Originally Posted by Gabe77

That challenge precedes my time... My current challenge is hacking Record EPS cabling to work with Chorus/Athena derailleurs.

Good luck with that project. I did a Chorus rd and it was no fun, the wires are so fine they are impossible to strip (ended up burning off the insulation) and then next to impossible to solder. Once I finally got them together after much frustration I insulated them with liquid electrical tape then bundled it back together.
I've seen hints on WW in the EPS battery thread that Campy has a hack available to their service centers to make Record batteries work with Chorus/Athena groups-suspect its a patch cable -might want to reach out.

Necessary now b/c only new batteries available are Record/SR v3, and there's some controversy as they may have been in stock and not kept charged enough to stay alive.

And Deltas aren't "that" hard to set up, the only rough part is the cable length as there's no room to cut it inside the caliper. 3.5 mm keys are now readily available, so no longer a roadblock.

[rwsaunders]

What’s this Campag 11 and 12-speed that I hear of, as I can only count 10 cogs on my cassettes…

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by saab2000

I had Delta brakes and very much enjoyed them. But then I graduated to their first generation dual pivots and they were actually way better brakes. Legit good even by today’s standards. The Deltas were fun to look at and I had no issues overall. But great brakes they were not. They were, to paraphrase Rolls Royce, ‘sufficient’. My biggest beef with them was that they tended to squeal and there didn’t seem to be any rhyme or reason on when it would happen or how to eliminate this. Seemed to be as dependent upon that day’s temperature and dew point as much as anything.

They were certainly better than the Modolos they replaced!

The bolts that secured the actual brake 'arms' to the brake body had bolts similar to headset lock nuts and these needed to be adjusted to be 'tight' but not restrictive..and the squeal went away.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by glepore

Good luck with that project.

And Deltas aren't "that" hard to set up, the only rough part is the cable length as there's no room to cut it inside the caliper. 3.5 mm keys are now readily available, so no longer a roadblock.

EPS stuff snipped.

Adjust with the brake lever 'open'..Pull cable tight, thru and past the 3.5mm fixing set screw, tighten. Then close the lever, pull on lever HARD to seat everything..then use your sharp and not big, cable cutters to cut cable flush with the bottom of the brake where the cable comes out..

And Bob's your father's brother...