Rim & tire don't play nice together? or...?

Bob Ross · #1 10-17-2017, 07:11 PM

Me being the Wonderful Husband™ that I am, I bought the missus some handbuilt wheels by Joe Young for her birthday: DT Swiss 240S hubs and RR440 clincher rims. Mmm, nice! I've used a very similar combination on a couple of my bikes for years, been very happy.

But on her new wheels it is an absolute bitch to get Conti GP4000SII clinchers on or off! It's not just her (or me), several other folks attempted to assist her with a roadside flat repair recently and were astonished at how difficult it was to get the tire back on the rim.

I use the same tires and don't recall ever having this much difficulty...but then again, mine are not RR440 rims (and if they ever were, they were not the most recent version).

Is this RR440 + GP4000SII a known bad rim/tire combination? ...or is this a freak one-off? If it is a known issue, can anyone recommend a 25c clincher that's more forgiving of delicate lady hands when it comes to mounting on RR440 rims?

Thanks.

berserk87 · #2 10-17-2017, 07:33 PM

I had a set of wheels built last year with some version of the DT Swiss 440 rim. I ended up selling them because I couldn't get tires on OR off of them.

I tried different tires - it didn't matter. They did seem to be tubeless compatible and I'm not sure if that factored in. I was running clinchers with tubes.

Ken Robb · #3 10-17-2017, 08:22 PM

This makes me wonder if rims designed for tubeless use are made with slightly bigger diameters to make tubeless tires easier to seat once (if?) you manage to get them on the rim.

makoti · #4 10-17-2017, 10:01 PM

The Conti 4000IIs are known bears to mount when new. On my Pacenti wheels, damn near impossible until I learned how.
If the RR440's are similar, be very, very sure the first bead is IN the center channel of the rim all the way around the rim as you mount the second bead. This will make it SO much easier. Start opposite the valve stem. Consider a tire jack when they are new (and you're at home. Hopefully, by the time you flat one, it'll loosen up a bit).

oldpotatoe · #5 10-18-2017, 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Ross

Me being the Wonderful Husband™ that I am, I bought the missus some handbuilt wheels by Joe Young for her birthday: DT Swiss 240S hubs and RR440 clincher rims. Mmm, nice! I've used a very similar combination on a couple of my bikes for years, been very happy.

But on her new wheels it is an absolute bitch to get Conti GP4000SII clinchers on or off! It's not just her (or me), several other folks attempted to assist her with a roadside flat repair recently and were astonished at how difficult it was to get the tire back on the rim.

I use the same tires and don't recall ever having this much difficulty...but then again, mine are not RR440 rims (and if they ever were, they were not the most recent version).

Is this RR440 + GP4000SII a known bad rim/tire combination? ...or is this a freak one-off? If it is a known issue, can anyone recommend a 25c clincher that's more forgiving of delicate lady hands when it comes to mounting on RR440 rims?

Thanks.

I'd say 25mm tire minimum and use tubleless rim tape(2 layers) even tho with tube. Lotsa baby powder, tire in channel in middle while trying to get other side on. Contis are a PITA on lotsa rims.

weisan · #6 10-18-2017, 06:58 AM

I can attest to the fact that it's all down to technique. It took me a while to finally get it down and once I got it, I was able to get tire mounted on with bare hands when they would break even the toughest tire lever in the past.

berserk87 · #7 10-18-2017, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken Robb

This makes me wonder if rims designed for tubeless use are made with slightly bigger diameters to make tubeless tires easier to seat once (if?) you manage to get them on the rim.

That's what I was wondering. I think you may be right.

I've never noticed an issue when mounting Conti 4000II's on any of my other rims.

earlfoss · #8 10-18-2017, 08:52 AM

I recently mounted some of those tires on a set of DT 460s and was amazed at the amount of professional wrestling required to get them mounted.

I guess Conti likes to make you work for it!

Ken Robb · #9 10-18-2017, 09:50 AM

Am I the only guy who stretches new tires by standing on the bead and doing "deadlifts" holding the opposite side of the tire? I move the tire about 6 inches and repeat until I've gone all around the bead. This helps them "break in" before the first ride.

bikinchris · #10 10-18-2017, 10:02 AM

Yes, it's tubeless rims. Other companies have the same problem too. The Velocity A23 rims made before they became tubeless ready are far easier to mount tires on.

Tickdoc · #11 10-18-2017, 10:22 AM

fighting tires is a bitch. I feel your pain.

I had a set that I fought and fought before changing to a thin rim tape and voila they finally fit. Just a thought.

FlashUNC · #12 10-18-2017, 10:24 AM

Contis can be a nightmare. I love the durability but man...the other stuff is a real pain sometimes.

jtakeda · #13 10-18-2017, 10:24 AM

I’m gonna echo the “it’s a technique thing” sentiment.

Once you figure out the trick it’s easy. Remember. Tubeless tape (even if using tubes) and move the bead to the center channel.

Mark McM · #14 10-18-2017, 10:30 AM

Am I the only one who likes tight tire and tube combinations?

As is often brought up in the tubular/clincher debate, one of the potential advantages of tubulars is that they tend to stay on the rim better in the case of a flat tire - which could be very important in the case of a high speed puncture. I suspect that a very tight clincher tire/rim interface also helps the tire stay on better in the case of a flat. (Of course, there are no guarantees - for either tubulars or clinchers - but any potential improvement in safety helps).

I've had a few more difficult to mount clincher tire/rim combinations, but I've never had a case where I couldn't get the tire installed (either at home or on the road) - and this includes the Continental GP-4000s tires on tubeless-ready rims.

benb · #15 10-18-2017, 10:49 AM

I've had trouble with these Contis too. I can always get them on but they are hard to mount and I've flatted brand new tubes installing them because they required too much force to mount. Usually once I ride around if I got a flat they'd be easier to mount.

I have stretched tires before but I'm wary of doing so, I had at least one tire that developed bead/sidewall damage and I couldn't get it out of my head that it might have been my fault for stretching.

One of my go-to things especially for tubeless is soaping the rim (take a couple ounces of water and squirt a couple drops of dish soap in it) to help slide the bead over the rim and then also help seat the rim with a regular pump instead of an air compressor. That is not a very good solution if you're on the side of the road with a flat though, I usually only have resorted to that with MTB tubeless setups which are almost bulletproof in my experience.

I tend to avoid the Contis kind of over this issue. If they were phenomenal tires in some way I'd put up with it but I find them middle of the road in just about every factor, whether it's ride quality, grip, wear, flat resistance, price, etc.. I feel like I can usually be happier with a different tire and it will also mount easier. Usually over the years that has been Michelin for me but I have been super happy with some Specialized tires over the past few years. The Specialized S-Works Turbo is one of the best tires I've ever run.