Alum nips - never again!!

[smead]

In the last 2 weeks I've had 2 spoke nip failures on different wheelsets during rides, both about 5-10 years old, solid builds (sans nips), but I opted to save a few grams on each w/ alloy nips. Today I replaced a spoke on one and upon re-truing, another nip snaps off!

Wheel building gurus are probably sighing a big duh right now . I've heard the rumors about alum nip fragility, but it's hit home now. If ya gotta save 20 grams and can afford to replace every few seasons, go for it! For me, all brass is in my future.

Ironically a few years ago I had Joe Young build a set of climbing wheels for my fixed gear, and while I requested alloy nips, he mistakenly used brass. At the time I received them I was a little disappointed, now I truly appreciate his oversight.

And brass vs alloy nips aside, I'll make a plug here for joe young wheels - wow! That is my finest set in the garage in terms of stiffness, and dead nuts true after several years of abuse.

[pbarry]

Can't argue with anything above. Have passed along any alloy nipple wheel sets that have come my way. None ever failed me since they were garaged/ridden here briefly.

JY has a rep approaching Spence Wolf's and Old Potatoe's: Good company!

[foo_fighter]

Here is Sapims take:
"In the past, aluminum nipples had only one positive argument, the weight. All other features like corrosion resistance, friction, stiffness were specific to brass nipples. This changed in the last years drastically. All our aluminum nipples are now anodized. Salt spray tests showed better results than brass nickel plated nipples. You can choose 7 different colors. We had been able to reduce friction with a special coating. As an effect you don’t need to oil or grease the nipple like you should with the brass version. For the last three years, Sapim has used the 7075 material and have additional strength added by the heat treatment T6. Alloy nipples are now stronger than brass. Aluminum nipples are more expensive but for sure much better than brass. For those who care about weight, special colors and quality, aluminum nipple is advised."

[tristan]

Where exactly did the nipples break? Most aluminium nipple failures are due to the wheelbuilder / wheelbuild and not the nipple...generally spokes which are too short or too long.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by tristan

Where exactly did the nipples break? Most aluminium nipple failures are due to the wheelbuilder / wheelbuild and not the nipple...generally spokes which are too short or too long.

Not really. Aluminum nipples(in spite of Sapim's 'data') are softer, deform in use and often just crack/break from use. Even when the spokes are proper length, the wheelbuilder lubes them properly, uses a tight sppke wrench, etc....but they do come in colors...ooooo-ahhhh.

I never use them on rear wheels and seldom on fronts.

[Black Dog]

Originally Posted by tristan

Where exactly did the nipples break? Most aluminium nipple failures are due to the wheelbuilder / wheelbuild and not the nipple...generally spokes which are too short or too long.

Al nipples can also seize and corrode inside the rim. I have seen this happen with Sapim anodized nipples. Don't forget that unless the rim has eyelets then there is a very good chance that the anodization is going to get scraped off at the nipple rim interface as the nipples are tightened (even if the spoke hole is greased). This is a great place for corrosion to start. Brass nipples tend to have a much longer lifespan than Al all else being equal.

[Anarchist]

Originally Posted by pbarry

Can't argue with anything above. Have passed along any alloy nipple wheel sets that have come my way. None ever failed me since they were garaged/ridden here briefly.

JY has a rep approaching Spence Wolf's and Old Potatoe's: Good company!

"... approaching..." ???????

Joe Young is the master, probably built more wheels than every other builder combined.

[smead]

Originally Posted by tristan

Where exactly did the nipples break? Most aluminium nipple failures are due to the wheelbuilder / wheelbuild and not the nipple...generally spokes which are too short or too long.

They all broke at the top flange where they seat in the eyelet. These were well built wheels otherwise, 32 3x and 28 2x.

[gdw]

Interesting. I've never had problems with alloy nipples and have several wheelsets which are over 10 years old and have seen tens of thousands of miles of offroad riding, racing, and bikepacking trips. Lots of the riders training for and racing events like the Arizona Trail Race, Stagecoach 400, Colorado Trail Race, Tour Divide, etc use them without issues too. Are the problems you folks encounter generally on wheelsets built for road use? Are they on wheels with less than 28 or 32 spokes?

[jc031699]

Originally Posted by smead

They all broke at the top flange where they seat in the eyelet. These were well built wheels otherwise, 32 3x and 28 2x.

Hjertberg's advice on this-
http://www.wheelfanatyk.com/blog/whe...h-alu-nipples/

[vqdriver]

Originally Posted by gdw

Interesting. I've never had problems with alloy nipples and have several wheelsets which are over 10 years old and have seen tens of thousands of miles of offroad riding, racing, and bikepacking trips. Lots of the riders training for and racing events like the Arizona Trail Race, Stagecoach 400, Colorado Trail Race, Tour Divide, etc use them without issues too. Are the problems you folks encounter generally on wheelsets built for road use? Are they on wheels with less than 28 or 32 spokes?

yeah, my experience as well. i get the argument for brass, but i've never personally experienced a nipple failure with alloy.

fwiw, i have an old (OLD) set of mtb wheels laced to campy mirox rims. i had it built with alloy spokes because of the cool factor of colors. talk about abuse. sheesh. those things should be retired but they just won't die.

[PaMtbRider]

Joe Young built a set of wheels for my wife's gravel bike last year. We went with his recommendation on spokes and nipples which ended up being DT super comp spokes and aluminum nipples. When I asked about the aluminum nipples he said there was no reason not to use them.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by PaMtbRider

Joe Young built a set of wheels for my wife's gravel bike last year. We went with his recommendation on spokes and nipples which ended up being DT super comp spokes and aluminum nipples. When I asked about the aluminum nipples he said there was no reason not to use them.

Put 3 people in a room and ask about aluminum nipples, get 4 opinions. 'Modern' alloy nipples are certainly better than the stuff around in the 80s and 90s but there are still 'reasons' to use brass vs alloy.

[Davist]

I think the Shimano, Campy/Fulcrum and Mavic wheel systems all use AL nipples, I wonder why they seem to be bulletproof (Zonda, Ultegra, etc) while the handbuilts aren't. Perhaps I'm mistaken. Would like the more enlightened folks to well, enlighten me!

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by Davist

I think the Shimano, Campy/Fulcrum and Mavic wheel systems all use AL nipples, I wonder why they seem to be bulletproof (Zonda, Ultegra, etc) while the handbuilts aren't. Perhaps I'm mistaken. Would like the more enlightened folks to well, enlighten me!

Bulletproof they are not and an added benefit, break/shatter a kry-for-me-sirium nipple and change the spoke also($6-8). I have replaced more than a few Campagnolo/Fulcrum/mavic nips and spokes because they either break, break while truing or are bonded/corroded into a solid piece.