OT - Same Attorney General Baltimore Cops/Tom & Bishop

[shovelhd]

Originally Posted by velomonkey

Sorry, bro - you're stuck back in the 1990s. That guy sold out a long, long time ago.

Of course, challenging Obama on Fox news is the path all liberals take . . . . if this doesn't work, let me know what you want. I got links galore.

9:17pm and the city seems peaceful to me and right now, like children, they are told to be home by 10pm and there is a big boxing fight going on if you haven't heard.

If he sold out as you say, then he would be neither. His allegiance would follow the greenbacks. That has nothing to do with his true beliefs.

There are plenty of liberals criticizing Obama...for not being liberal enough. But I digress. Back to the people versus the police union.

[Rueda Tropical]

What happened in Baltimore is a symptom of a bigger problem. The drug war has been used to institute a new form of Jim Crow - meeting out unequal justice and disenfranchising a segment of the population based on race:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain...-and-the-poor/

It's also been lucrative for the business of private prisons and provided a steady stream of income for predatory small time municipal police forces. Then there is the devastating impact that the US market's demand for illicit drugs ( and the mountain of US dollars and US military grade weapons ) has had on our neighbors to the South.

[velomonkey]

Originally Posted by 1centaur

For the rest of you, the stats will be interesting because the best way to defend against a murder charge is to admit to a departmental indifference to injury. "We do it all the time, lots of people got a little banged up, 1 person died but these guys did not know that (or some variation on that theme). 99.8% non-death rate is better than driving your car at night (or some variation of that) so how can you call it "total" or "extreme" disregard for life. I think we can agree it is total disregard for human injury."

Rock. Solid. Logic.

Cops gets up on stand and the defense is "Oh, I know for sure I was gonna mess him up - I intended to mess him up - and, yea, he died, but the death rate for 'us' messing up these dudes is still a better average than you Joe jury member driving at night."

I don't see it happening.

[rugbysecondrow]

Originally Posted by Rueda Tropical

What happened in Baltimore is a symptom of a bigger problem. The drug war has been used to institute a new form of Jim Crow - meeting out unequal justice and disenfranchising a segment of the population based on race:



http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain...-and-the-poor/



It's also been lucrative for the business of private prisons and provided a steady stream of income for predatory small time municipal police forces. Then there is the devastating impact that the US market's demand for illicit drugs ( and the mountain of US dollars and US military grade weapons ) has had on our neighbors to the South.

I believe the drug laws and mandatory sentences are draconian, but to equate them to Jim Crow seems to miss the point and embellishes the problem. We are still talking about criminals, people who knowingly commit unlawful acts, which carry stiff sentences. Some drug laws may unfairly penalize some black people, but certainly not all black people as was the case with Jim Crow. Some drugs laws penalize white people more (meth trade is a predominantly white endeavor).












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[lhuerta]

Originally Posted by Rueda Tropical

What happened in Baltimore is a symptom of a bigger problem. The drug war has been used to institute a new form of Jim Crow - meeting out unequal justice and disenfranchising a segment of the population based on race:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain...-and-the-poor/

It's also been lucrative for the business of private prisons and provided a steady stream of income for predatory small time municipal police forces. Then there is the devastating impact that the US market's demand for illicit drugs ( and the mountain of US dollars and US military grade weapons ) has had on our neighbors to the South.

good read and important point....and as an accompanying piece, here is another must read by David Simon (producer of The Wire):
https://www.themarshallproject.org/2...more-s-anguish

[Rueda Tropical]

Originally Posted by rugbysecondrow

I believe the drug laws and mandatory sentences are draconian, but to equate them to Jim Crow seems to miss the point and embellishes the problem. We are still talking about criminals, people who knowingly commit unlawful acts, which carry stiff sentences. Some drug laws may unfairly penalize some black people, but certainly not all black people as was the case with Jim Crow. Some drugs laws penalize white people more (meth trade is a predominantly white endeavor).

When both white kids and black kids commit low level drug "crimes" like possession of marijuana at roughly equal rates yet a black kid is 8 times more likely to get arrested for it ( in some counties its 50 times more likely ) that is selective and unequal enforcement. Half of all drug arrests are for marijuana. And the bias in arrests has gotten worse not better over time.

There is also a racial gap in sentencing which got worse when the Supreme Court restored judicial discretion in sentencing in 2005:

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB100014...04463789858002

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck... Saying race should not be interjected into the discussion is to ignore the elephant in the room. The statistics support the anecdotal evidence that has been coming from the residents of black neighborhoods for decades and has been being ignored. While being poor no matter your race is likely to get you unequal treatment under the law there is clear evidence that being black puts you even more at risk then just being poor. Being poor and black that can get you killed by the people who are supposed to protect you.

You go to prison, you lose your right to vote - you are disenfranchised. When you get out -if it wasn't hard enough to get a job in poor neighborhoods - try it with a prison record. The cascading consequences of mass incarceration of young black men have been catastrophic. Its been every bit as damaging as segregation.

[rugbysecondrow]

I don't think anybody said race was not part of the discussion, but it is not as simple as just race either, which is why the Jim Crow analogy is antiquated. This is why I equate it to a Cold War way of thinking...it just doesn't allow for the variable necessary for meaningful discussion. Race is one of the factors of a very complex problem which has to be dealt with. Is race the main issue, or is it a secondary or tertiary issue behind economic and societal differences? That is a much greater conversation than anything we could attempt to discuss via this forum.

Originally Posted by Rueda Tropical

When both white kids and black kids commit low level drug "crimes" like possession of marijuana at roughly equal rates yet a black kid is 8 times more likely to get arrested for it ( in some counties its 50 times more likely ) that is selective and unequal enforcement. Half of all drug arrests are for marijuana. And the bias in arrests has gotten worse not better over time.

There is also a racial gap in sentencing which got worse when the Supreme Court restored judicial discretion in sentencing in 2005:

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB100014...04463789858002

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck... Saying race should not be interjected into the discussion is to ignore the elephant in the room. The statistics support the anecdotal evidence that has been coming from the residents of black neighborhoods for decades and has been being ignored. While being poor no matter your race is likely to get you unequal treatment under the law there is clear evidence that being black puts you even more at risk then just being poor. Being poor and black that can get you killed by the people who are supposed to protect you.

You go to prison, you lose your right to vote - you are disenfranchised. When you get out -if it wasn't hard enough to get a job in poor neighborhoods - try it with a prison record. The cascading consequences of mass incarceration of young black men have been catastrophic. Its been every bit as damaging as segregation.

[shovelhd]

Three white cops, three black cops, one black victim. You're saying all six are racist? Are all six bad cops or is this endemic of the system?

[Rueda Tropical]

Originally Posted by shovelhd

Three white cops, three black cops, one black victim. You're saying all six are racist? Are all six bad cops or is this endemic of the system?

The cops take their que from the system. What's considered accepted and even good policing doesn't get decided by the rank and file. Attitudes about how white youth are treated versus black comes from the system. The fish rots from the head.

Look at how riots post sporting events are reported versus the riot that occurred in Baltimore. Reuters referred to rioters after the Giants won the World Series as "fans taking to the streets", the SF chronicle reported:

"40 arrests, two shootings in Giants fan revelry."

No one suggested shooting sports rioters down in the street as did a Wayne County assistant prosecutor referring to Baltimore violence.

[shovelhd]

Well, a Red Sox fan was killed during a celebration by a cop using a pellet gun to disperse the crowd. It was a white female if that matters. However I get your point. Way too many bad policing decisions in the last year to localize this problem. The system needs to change.

[velomonkey]

Originally Posted by Rueda Tropical

When both white kids and black kids commit low level drug "crimes" like possession of marijuana at roughly equal rates yet a black kid is 8 times more likely to get arrested for it ( in some counties its 50 times more likely ) that is selective and unequal enforcement. Half of all drug arrests are for marijuana. And the bias in arrests has gotten worse not better over time.

You go to prison, you lose your right to vote - you are disenfranchised. When you get out -if it wasn't hard enough to get a job in poor neighborhoods - try it with a prison record. The cascading consequences of mass incarceration of young black men have been catastrophic. Its been every bit as damaging as segregation.

Agree with all this. Least we forget - Freddie was arrested for ZERO reason. No reason what so ever. Next time you try going to the club ride (it was a Sunday), get arrested, sat on by a cop, put into a paddy wagon and hauled off to central booking - I think a lot could be understood if that happened to some white folk.

[Louis]

Originally Posted by velomonkey

I think a lot could be understood if that happened to some white folk.

+1

I've had enough run-ins with cops that it didn't take me long to realize that if they treat me (a middle-aged white guy) that way, I hate to think how they would have treated a young black guy.

The recent past has given us the video evidence for that - a lot worse.

[93legendti]

Here's a chuckle:

"Gray arrest documents drawn up for wrong people:

When charges were announced Friday against Alicia White for the death ofFreddie Gray, her phone started buzzing from journalists and bail bondsmen.*

The problem was, they were calling the wrong Alicia White. The elementary school cafeteria manager from East Baltimore was not the Baltimore Police sergeant charged with manslaughter in the high-profile police custody death – even though court records listed her.

The middle initial was off. Her address, her height, her weight, her driver’s license number – all of the information was my client’s information,” said Jeremy Eldridge, an attorney who says he has been hired by the resident.

“Her life has been a living hell the past four days,” he said.

An attorney for Lt. Brian Rice said his client’s information was also entered incorrectly when prosecutors filed charges, but declined further comment.

On Friday evening, Tammy and Brian Rice of Brunswick, Md. said they were receiving multiple calls from reporters looking for the lieutenant. Brian Rice of Brunswick is a plumber, they said."

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/mar...504-story.html

[93legendti]

Curious (or foolish) that Young Mosby would charge for illegal arrest:


"Police: Freddie Gray arrested for possession of switchblade:
Gray “fled unprovoked upon noticing police presence,” according to the document, written by Officer G. Miller. “The defendant was apprehended in the 1700 block of Presbury St. after a brief foot chase. This office noticed a knife clipped to the inside of his front right pants pocket. The defendant was arrested without force or incident. The knife was recovered by this officer and found to be a spring-assisted, one hand-operated knife. During transport to Western District via wagon transport the defendant suffered a medical emergency and was immediately transported to shock trauma via media.”

The charging document was filed at 11:25 p.m. ET on April 12. A court date for the case was set for May 22, 2015, according to the document. The maximum penalty for the switchblade charge is one year in prison and a $500 fine."

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/police-fr...ed-switchblade

Evidence of flight is admissible to argue consciousness of guilt...

http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.230...21106285437661

[93legendti]

Was this March 13, 2005 Arrest Warrent for Mr. Gray still good???

http://www.rickwells.us/wp-content/u...arrant-700.png